The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by fromdownunder »

traralgon3844 wrote:In short: low numbers printed does not necessarily mean scarce. One recent Australian issue that has disappeared from eBay over the last few months are the Black Caviar digital show print. There are only 25,000 of these stamps (2,500 sheetlets of 10) available anywhere and a lot more than 25,000 collect Australia. What are your thoughts on these now that the dust has settled.
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My thoughts have not changed since Australia Post decided to produce a new stamp for every Commonwealth Games winner in 2006 - around 100 different letter rate stamps in two weeks available only in MS format. I stopped then, and nothing that has happened since then has changed my mind.

Of course there would be more than 25,000 collectors in Australia (and many collectors of Australia in the rest of the world). I am one of them. The real trick is, how many want modern decimals?

Answer that with certainty, and Australia Post can ramp up their "limited editions" to what the market will bear. Oh, wait...

In the famous words of Rhett Butler...

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Night Watchman »

traralgon3844 wrote:...Prices soon reached dizzying heights and special cancels soon demanded a large premium.

This stamp dealer was based in of all places Horsham in Victoria, which is a country town...The same dealer was also buying the Hobart Mail Centre PSE's for $25.50. I occasionally see them at face, ie: 40 cents. These were the 2 large bird PSE's overprinted for the opening of the Hobart Mail Centre...But as with many things in the boom, prices were driven by speculators.
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The above high prices at the time, made the cost of printing a full-colour business card dedicated to PSEs insignificant :!:

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Australia: PSE No. 014 for 50 years of the Blood Donor Service issued 13 November 1979.
Size: 103mm x 190mm



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Business Card in full-colour, front and back.
Size of card: 50mm x 100mm
Noel Almeida, Night Watchman, Australia Down Under.
Author: Overseas Mailers of New York FDCs of Australia.
Author: Australian Post Office Souvenir Covers.
Author: Test Cricket Centenary 1977 Philatelic Covers.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Raz »

A very deserving winner of best thread (December 2016) that you have started here Traralgon. :D

I hope the dealers from that time keep posting their experiences as they give us younger(under 70 years) coff coff
collectors a great snapshot of what was a boom and bust cycle. :cry:

I also remember the Phonecard boom and bust, as Glen and others have recounted here on Stampboards.

I used to visit Gabrielle's shop in Castlereagh St to buy phonecard packs which I sold at about ten times the price I paid
just before the crash. I have also been the recipient of sheets of 1 cent birds and other 'rarities' bought by people then as investments. :roll:
Surfing stamps and covers, KED VIII, and Newfoundland.
Europa and Canada and any comic related stamps.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by BigSaint »

traralgon3844 wrote:In short: low numbers printed does not necessarily mean scarce. One recent Australian issue that has disappeared from eBay over the last few months are the Black Caviar digital show print. There are only 25,000 of these stamps (2,500 sheetlets of 10) available anywhere and a lot more than 25,000 collect Australia. What are your thoughts on these now that the dust has settled.
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But not all 25,000 of the Black Caviar digital stamps were released at the show. One thousand (100 sheetlets of ten) were held back for "Special Projects":
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Now I don't know whether they used 50 or 100 sheetlets in producing this special cover 6 months after the Show, but either way there should have been 600 stamps left over. I am not aware how Australia Post subsequently dealt with these 600 stamps.

I haven't seen one of these special limited edition covers come up since December 2013. Nor have I seen digital print fdcs. They all appear to be being closely held.

Brad :)

PS Fossick started an attempted census on the survival of intact digital sheetlets. The thread is below:
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=46218
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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by BigSaint »

All Photobucket “Ransom” images above have been replaced, and saved forever.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by BigSaint »

I did see one of these on ebay recently:
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It sold for around $660.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Global Administrator »

traralgon3844 wrote: Image
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It looks like this was the time of a silver boom as well. (see box ad bottom right)

The May 1980 edition of Stamp News ran to 192 pages. There were 132 advertisers many with full page ads (some with ads of several pages) and that doesn't include the 4½ pages of box ads. Was there any room for articles?
I smile at some of these prevailing prices and trust me, for a while these prices got even HIGHER! The $4 Navigators got to $50 for sure. I listed these up here recently for a tiny fraction of that. :)
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Australia Amazing hoard of 21 x 1966 x $4 Navigators, depicting NSW Governor Philip Gidley King, all MUH!
I kid you not, this elderly Doctor guy bought these 60 years back at face as he saw how prices the same design £2 Navigator top value Defin had got to, ($A150 each) and he hoped to see these $4 repeat that huge high price rise. :idea:

We have NO real idea how much these cost in today’s money until you work it out. In 1966 a first class letter cost just 4c ..... witness the common 4d Red Queen.

So each of these cost a HUNDRED times a letter rate stamp. As a first class stamp today is $1.50, a hundred of those is $150, and 21 of them is $4,725 in today’s money, over a half century on. I repeat these 21 stamps cost near $5,000 at the time, relativity wise. :mrgreen:

Would you pay $4,725 for these – will he did! Clean flat MUH original gum.

BLOCKS of these are near unheard-of, due to massive face cost, but he has THREE of them. :mrgreen:

Prices did go up on these – they were once $50 a stamp, or over $1,000 this card, but he foolishly held on! He was downsizing to a retirement village, so sold all his stamps to me this week.
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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by GlenStephens »

GlenStephens wrote:Those were the Pitcairn CHEAPIES in that ad. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I recall I had 10 sets of the 1948 Silver Wedding for about $7000 in the ad before that, or an ad around that time, and someone bought them, to my great delight. 8)

Back 37 years back, $7000 would have bought you an MUH imprint block of £2 Roos!

I did not have 10 sets on hand of course, so phoned Brian Dias at Bombay Stamp Company in New York, who DID have such things. Wonderful old-time stock of Omnibus issues bought at face value when released. :idea:

"I am am truly sorry about this, but there seems to be strong demand for all things Pitcairn here. I know it is more than full Scott catalog value but I can only do 10 sets if you pay me $US1000 the 10"

With a sigh I agreed, and gave him my credit card. Back THEN $A was much stronger than a greenback as I recall. Easiest $6000 I ever made - and a ~$25,000 profit in today's money - for making a phone call! :mrgreen:

No internet back then. Pretty much no-one in the USA had a clue what prices were down here.

Glen
$7000 back 35 years was $30,000 in today's money buying power.

Just listed up a Pitcairn collection tonight for $200 the lot that included a fresh MUH 1948 Silver Wedding! -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=83822
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Re: The 1980's Stamp Boom in Australia

Post by SP1 »

steevh wrote:I don't think prices for certain classic GB have changed much since then.

I started dealing stamps as a schoolboy in 1976, just as the boom was getting into swing. I remember a huge leap in catalogue prices... the early 1960s GB high value commems suddenly were at £2.50 each.

Which is about what they still are!

I also recall the PUC £1 at £400. Its not much more than that now. The 1948 Silver Wedding £1 hasn't moved much, either (It might have been £22 then?) Whereas model tank kits have gone from 27p to about £6.
I seem to recall that the PUC £1 hit a peak of £1500 (unmounted mint) and the 1948 Silver Wedding £1 got to a maximum of £40. I remember buying one for £10 from a ‘Warwick & Warwick ‘ auction for £10 and was offered £20 for it a couple of months later. Sadly I held on to it......

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by NJA »

I was a youth at the time but I remember London 1980 being so crowded you could hardly move, especially around the British Post Office stand.
Now: the Trafalgar Square Post Office will be closed permanently by Christmas. That leaves London with no philatelic counter!

I think there was a lot of money about and stamp collecting was still popular with the youth.

These factors created a gullible market for what now sells as rubbish - PHQ cards, PHQ fdcs, various special handstamp fdcs (already mentioned ... you can now pick up addressed versions of the 1977 high values , total £8 for as little as 30p), gutter pairs, traffic light gutter pairs, year packs, various cylinder blocks of 6 ... it was boom time for the Post Office!!

People also had standing orders with philatelic bureaus such as Tuvalu.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

Talking about the boom and "blasts from the past", Greg Fair was at Abacus Auctions on the weekend.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Global Administrator »

Added this here for the record - many Navigators were used on these Telephone Payment cards and TV and Radio licences - and the background to them is worth noting. :mrgreen:

These 50c Nav stamps RETAILED for $1000 if mint in the boom - see scan of ASC below.

Added these 2 to stock today - Stock 564EKL for $A60 - and spent an hour or so researching the use of 50c Navs for TV and Radio licences - I'll add it below for the record -
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Government press ad in Sydney warning of random inspections and fines!


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TWENTY x 50c Navigators on 1971 PO Account Payment Card etc.
FAP. 784

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA
Postmaster-General’s Department
CARD FOR THE PAYMENT OF A
BROADCAST LISTENER’S, TELEVISION
VIEWER’S OR COMBINED RECEIVERS
LICENCE FEE BY POSTAGE STAMPS

Sch. C 6486/71


TWENTY x 1966 50c Navigator, and 9 of the 50c Pioneer that replaced it in 1972. 29 x 50c = $14.50 face.

This was a fortune back in 1972. A First Class domestic stamp then cost 7c, so this $14.50 bought 207 of them. Using today’s First Class letter rate of $1.50 we have $310 of buying power, in today’s money, so weird that such a sum would be abandoned as these were.

It costs about $A300 even TODAY to hold a TV/Radio viewing licence in less enlightened countries like the UK, Germany and MANY other countries!

To avoid fines, Australians took to hiding their TV antennas in chimneys and roofs and TV sets were even hidden in cupboards.

By the 1970s, combined TV and radio licences cost $A26.50. With ongoing pressure about the inequity of the costs across the community and the heavy cost of policing compliance, the Federal Whitlam Government decided on 18 September 1974, to abolish radio and TV licences.

The Federal Fraser Government tried to re-introduce TV licence fees in 1975, recommending fees of $70 for a colour TV set and $50 for a black-and-white set, but this suggestion was met with huge opposition.

This FAP 784 card is seldom seen – in 40 years as a dealer I have only seen a few, and most only had a few stamps inside – this is nearly full, with $300 of relative value of stamps affixed.

Indeed just a few years later those TWENTY x 50c Navigators were selling for OVER $1,000 in the market in MUH, and was THE most expensive single Decimal stamp in the 1980s BOOM, as can be seen from ASC listing shown above.

When Whitlam abolished the fee, anyone who had just paid for a licence for the next year got no refund, which was seen as most unjust as this moaning woman clip at the time made clear – :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.nfsa.gov.au/latest/radio-and-tv-licences

So Whitlam abolished TV and Radio licences soon after this card was being completed, and maybe the householder put it aside very annoyed, as it was near complete.

These cards were on cheap grade acidic card, and always age, after ~50 years in this climate. A RARE survivor.

Soon after this brown card, the BLUE colour “FAP 30” cards were introduced, to allow stamps to pay TELEPHONE BILLS via Postage Stamps. That card was of a far smoother and better grade board. From another Estate, I enclose one of those cards in with this lot, with a single $2 stamp affixed.

I used to make a ton of money via this system. All my business phone bills for a decade or more were paid with mint stamps - that I bought way under face value! :lol: :lol:

PO accepted any mint stamp 50c and up for these FAP30 cards. (The old cards had 50c MAX) Take in 10 sheets of 50c stapled to the corner of this card, and a $500 phone bill was fully paid. Worked well up to about 1990 as I recall, until a Melbourne dealer of the Hebrew persuasion rorted the system, by paying the phone bills of near everyone in the Synagogue with used high values, with cleaned off cancels. :roll: :roll:

Then the PO stopped it for everyone. :twisted: :twisted:

Glen
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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

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Looking at the Australian Stamp Monthly, June 1981 - 224 pages, size of a small telephone book.

^and virtually all adverts.

National Stamp Week trade show in Brisbane ran for a full week in 1981, a trial run for Anpex '82.
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Last edited by MJ's pet on 18 Jan 2021 13:01, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

classic stamp dealer ad from the 1980s :mrgreen: :

Maria sure looks happy working in the shop

Conway Stamps.jpeg
Australian Stamp Monthly, June 1981

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Global Administrator »

.

Northbridge Plaza is walking distance from me - forgot there ever was a stamp shop there ............. :D

Boy, if I had a dollar for every dealer and collector I knew, that had an Asian wife, I'd be pretty wealthy. :mrgreen:
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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by lightningstamp »

MJ's pet wrote:
18 Jan 2021 15:12
classic stamp dealer ad from the 1980s :mrgreen: :

Maria sure looks happy working in the shop


Image
Australian Stamp Monthly, June 1981

"Male customers are restricted to three visits without buying something, if only a packet of hinges"

As they say... sex sells :shock: :lol: that is funny, and not something you would see in 2021 advertising material.
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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »



Another dealer ad from "The Boom". While intended to be humorous, sadly this came fatally true for one stamp wife.

BEAT YOUR WIFE ad  ASM Aug 1981 p66.jpeg
Australia Stamp Monthly, August 1981

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by satsuma »

Possibly the most interesting thing about that list is the difference between buy and sell MUH.

10/- Map buy $75 sell $155 mark-up 106%
£1 Fisherman buy $90 sell $185 mark-up 106%
­£1 Queen buy $22 sell $35 mark-up 59%

Maybe the auction house gouge we complain about now isn't so unprecedented.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

Another Boom Time cover. This one has a young lady bending over a chair in her underwear. All in the guise of "advertising" of course.

Stamp News Sep 1978 cover.jpg
Stamp News, September 1978

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by DigitalPhilatelist »

MJ's pet wrote:
20 Jan 2021 10:45
Another Boom Time cover. This one has a young lady bending over a chair in her underwear. All in the guise of "advertising" of course.


Image
Stamp News, September 1978
With the rare 'dirty feet' variety. LOL
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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Global Administrator »

MJ's pet wrote:
20 Jan 2021 10:45
Another Boom Time cover. This one has a young lady bending over a chair in her underwear. All in the guise of "advertising" of course.


Image
Stamp News, September 1978
Editor Bill Hornadge was quite a character and loved prodding the stodgy Establishment. Like me.

Not many tiny ads are remembered from over 40 years back. :lol:

Do not forget the most super powerful word in publishing - "FREE"

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When I started out 40+ years or so back this above was my trick.

When I first booked this ad above in the 'ASM' and 'Stamp News' - much smaller than this size (literally half this actual size in fact) in the magazines, as I was then as now, a very impoverished stamp dealer. :D

The owner of "Stamp News" Bill Hornadge phoned me to say he loved the ad. :lol:

Bill himself was quite a rebel, and an entrepreneur, and had started the massive Seven Seas Stamps and founded "Stamp News".

Then as now, I worked from home, with no staff, with no rent overhead, so I could, and still do manage to sell good items, at very low prices. EXPOSING my stock to buyers was (and still is!) the challenge.

I had come from a background in the Advertising and Marketing and Journalist businesses, so such an angle to get noticed, at small cost was nothing new to me. A tiny and cheap ad getting a lot of attention and comment was my aim. 8)

I had learnt working in those fields that the TWO words in the English language that ALWAYS get people's attention were FREE and SEX, so I figured using both together as "FREE SEX" would do the job. :lol: :lol:

Bill said something like: "Glen I wish a few other stamp dealers had the same kind of initiative, to help brighten up these stamp magazine pages a bit."

'Stamp News' was then 300 pages a month an issue, (4 times thicker than today) all in dreary monocolour, on really coarse yellowish newsprint paper, and almost no ads had ANY photos. As BORING as batsh!t :shock:

Two months later Bill phoned me a bit disheartened, and said he needed to prohibit me from running these ads again, as -

1. A number of large established dealers hated that a tiny little ad offering to undercut the prices in their many full page ads being ran. ("The only way to get stamps cheaper than this is to steal them".)

2. He'd had quite a few Church ministers, little old ladies, and other wowser conservatives get in his ear threatening to cancel their subscriptions, if ads screaming "Free Sex" were allowed in "nice clean family magazines like Stamp News".

My highbrow ads went downhill from then on. :D

Luckily I somehow made a few modest bucks from selling stamps, and then for the next decades took 2 facing full pages of super classy ads like this below, on pages 12 and 13, and spent more a month in both magazines than most other dealers - so no-one else's complaints were listened to then. :lol: :lol:

I typed each page up on huge pieces of glossy paper, on an electric typewriter (remember them!?) and reduced the size of them down at local printer by 60% onto a gloss art paper bromide, to squeeze more items in.

And as you can see, I crammed as much as was humanly possible into 2 pages each month, so did not allow myself the luxury of photos, as back then it was near impossible to do that anyway. Scanners cost $10,000 each then, and digital cameras did not exist.

I wish I could buy lot #34 below today for $A125! (Cat 4500 quid in 2021 cat - who says good stamps do not go up in value! Today I'd ask for, and get, 20 times my 1980s advertised price.)

Took me a weekend to do it all, as all the typing needed to fill out each line EXACTLY! That is harder to do that it looks. No on-line editing .. all typed character by character onto gloss paper then. 8)

Glen

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

.
Does anyone know what happened to Alan A. Levy?

He had a shop/office in Little Collins St in the early 1980s and ran "postal bid sales".

Does anyone have copies of his postal bid sales?

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

^ Does anyone remember Alan A. Levy? He had been dealing from the mid-1970s and had a shop/office in the very early 80s. Not sure how that lasted though.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by capetriangle »

MJ's pet wrote:
27 Jan 2021 13:49
^ Does anyone remember Alan A. Levy? He had been dealing from the mid-1970s and had a shop/office in the very early 80s. Not sure how that lasted though.
I used to see him regularly in New York City in the 1990s and 2000s (up to about 2006). He developed an interest in U.S. postal history (particularly Carriers and Locals) and admired my Western Australia. He had a share/interest in a Manhattan apartment, possibly a rental, one of the ultra-cheap rent control ones?

He also agreed with me regarding the authenticity (the lack thereof) of the G.B. 1d. Plate 77 cover (now sometimes referred to the Victor Hugo cover), the Stampboards thread I initially came to prominence upon.

However, I have not seen him in years. I did not see him at the New York 2016 International where I last saw Glen and Margo. There may have also been a problem with his mother's health.

If you do manage to get in touch with him, please pass on my best wishes.

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Global Administrator »

capetriangle wrote:
28 Jan 2021 00:08

He also agreed with me regarding the authenticity (the lack thereof) of the G.B. 1d. Plate 77 cover (now sometimes referred to the Victor Hugo cover), the Stampboards thread I initially came to prominence upon.

Well Levy flogged this roaring fake cover below for MEGGGGA bucks and tried to convince the world it was genuine. So his track record on picking fake covers from genuines is not good. Two strikes from 2 balls. Can't do any worse than that.

Global Administrator wrote:
01 Aug 2020 19:37


The auction including the Echuca cover has been delayed, from May 2020 to January 2021.

Image



Hope the potential bidders do not do any research and find this thread. :lol: :lol: :lol:

This Echuca 1869 Murry Steam Navigation Company cover via paddle steamer KELPIE is now regarded as a total fake. The Swiss Estimate is into 5 figures. :lol:

The underlying cover is genuine of course, but the local was added later, as was the fake dated signature. It appears to have been a defective stamp when added, thinned at top, with pen writing on reverse "bleeding" to centre as can be seen.

Looking at this close up, one can clearly see the faker did a pencil tracing impression of the fake signature first - to the right of what he ended up with using. The "10" of date shows it very clearly. He did not erase/disguise it very well.

Rod Perry reports above tracing impressions on the reverse of this same cover showed the same characteristics. He states it is a fabricated forgery with an added 3d MSNC. Rod formed the finest collection of Victoria ever assembled and examined the cover closely.

Dr. Geoff Kellow and Tony Presgrave (who lives on the Murray and has a nice collection of this area) have told me they do not believe it is genuine.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by capetriangle »

Glen

I simply have no opinion on the cover above.

However it is coming up tomorrow at Corinphila in Zurich - Lot 6382 (Thursday, January 28, session starts at 1.00 pm with lot 6001, so somewhere between 4.00 pm - 5.00 pm, Zurich time, we all will know what happened, assuming a lot-selling rate of 100 lots per hour) The starting price is 15,000 CHF and the buyer's premium is 22%.

I have read the description and there is no mention of Allan Levy's name in it. However, it was thought to be good by J.R.W. Purves according to Corinphila.

Now you say that the late Rod Perry thought it was a fake, so it seems that we have opposing opinions on it from two great collectors of Victoria.

Regarding Allan Levy's opinion on the fake Plate 77 cover, as I reported on the thread, after being informed that the corner letter's plate the stamps to plate 73, Allan said, "Well then that's it then," implying a total forgery.

Hardly two for two.

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Well it is 2 for 2, as the Steam Navigation cover is an outright fake, that you still cannot see from the evidence, with a defective MSNC stamp added to a genuine $5 retail cover, and a very clumsy forger added the date and initial in manuscript to the heavily defective stamp, that Levy liked, and he peddled it for years - as he owned it.

Levy bought the faked cover at a Downies Melbourne Auction in the 1970s and HE was the vendor at Corinphila back in October 1992 ALSO by Corinphila Switzerland for 14,950 Swiss francs, or double the 7500 franc pre-sale estimate.

The GB 1d Red Plate 77 cover addressed by Victor Hugo, now has three (3) different Expert Committee Certificates that it is totally genuine, and untampered with, and also now has a folder of scientific and forensic document examination and handwriting EXPERT advice that it is untampered with - that you earlier on stated was faked.

You stated the "numbaahs woz paynted on." That nonsense view has been totally debunked - endless times, by real stamp Experts.

Rod Perry was a good friend of Allan Levy's, and Rod formed the greatest collection of stamps of the State of Victoria ever assembled, by far, Large Gold International level. Rod examined the MSNC cover in great detail in person, and stated here many times it was an obvious fake, and that he actually knew the Melbourne collector who faked it.

You "staked your professional reputation" here, that you were correct on the GB Plate 77 cover. All those three (3) Expert Committee Certificates, and detailed real Expert reports stating it was 100% genuine, were issued after your boast. You were clearly plain wrong.

You keep raising that mega failing in your professional expertise - have no idea why. Donald Trump still claims he won the US Election in a landslide, so we are of course all entitled to our personal views, no matter how outlandish. :mrgreen:

Glen

Rod Perry wrote:
27 Dec 2015 10:45

This fake was created by a Melbourne collector, whose estate was auctioned by P.J. Downie in Melbourne in the 1970s.

The fake never left its creator's collection until that estate auction, where it was sold to another Melbourne collector for about $900. (Allan Levy)

The supposed cover bearing a "tied" by signature MSNC stamp - Famous that may be, but it is bogus.

The famous cover referred to above is a fake. The "local" stamp was added much later.

I know who prepared the fake; he passed away in 1970s.

When I inspected the cover, it could be clearly seen on front of envelope (and reverse side of that portion) an indentation corresponding to the "Mayne" signature which "ties" the stamp.

I bought the faker's Victoria Locals (not the cover, that was offered separately in the Estate auction), and his Boyd's Express page had multiple rubber stamp impressions of the circular and line cancellations . . . applied to the album page as tests (!), as well as to two otherwise genuine examples of the local stamp on the page.

The MSNC cover was once offered for £10,000 by P/T by a noted London auction firm, and I believe is boldly presented in the Williams' "World Rarities" volume.

The scallywag who created it would be amused.

Rod
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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Global Administrator »

capetriangle wrote:
28 Jan 2021 01:44

I have read the description and there is no mention of Allan Levy's name in it. H

Richard we know you cannot pick fake covers, but surely you can READ Basic English ? -

J. Downey, sale 155, 1977 (bought by Allan Levy) Collection 'Antoine', Corinphila sale 85, Oct 1992, lot 3866.

https://corinphila.ch/de/_auctions/&action=showLots&auctionI ... s=1&page=4


It has no Expert Committee certificate, and Tony Presgrave, Rodney Perry and Dr. Geoffrey Kellow all agree it is 105% bogus.

It may well sell to someone with more money than sense who collects Private Steamship Mails etc, but it is fake.

The leading priced site for locals and Revenues is David Elsmore's and he prices the cover at $A250 -



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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by corpman »


No Richard

This is exactly two for two.

Levy's incompotence in his failure to accept that this faked Victoria cover is is in fact faked (as shown by a myriad of real experts such as Rod Perry among others) merely adds to his now obviously tainted opinion that the Hugo cover is faked.

Why is your ego so big that you cannot accept the fact that several expert comittees have totally smashed your now totally laughable opinion about the Hugo cover?

And now as a last resort you try to hang your hat on the opinion of some else who decided to agree with you, even though it is now proved that he himself is so biased and incompetent that he got it wrong on the steamship cover.

Please Richard, just give it up.

You have been slammed again and again, yet you still insist that you are right.

According to you, the sun must still be revolving around the earth, and also that the earth is flat, and that smoking is perfectly safe and does not cause cancer, and asbestos powder is safe to breathe, and that heavier than air machines will never be able to fly etc etc

Just admit you were wrong, and then you can truly start to rebuild your currently shattered reputation.

Come Richard, you can do it.....


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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by capetriangle »

Glen

There are at least two discussions going on here.
capetriangle wrote:
28 Jan 2021 01:44
Glen

I simply have no opinion on the cover above.

However it is coming up tomorrow at Corinphila in Zurich - Lot 6382 (Thursday, January 28, session starts at 1.00 pm with lot 6001, so somewhere between 4.00 pm - 5.00 pm, Zurich time, we all will know what happened, assuming a lot-selling rate of 100 lots per hour) The starting price is 15,000 CHF and the buyer's premium is 22%.

I have read the description [in the current Corinphila sale only] and there is no mention of Allan Levy's name in it. However, it was thought to be good by J.R.W. Purves according to Corinphila.

Now you say that the late Rod Perry thought it was a fake, so it seems that we have opposing opinions on it from two great collectors of Victoria.
Now you surely cannot deny that J.R.W. Purves was a great collector of Victoria?
Global Administrator wrote:
28 Jan 2021 09:13
.
Well it is 2 for 2, as the Steam Navigation cover is an outright fake, that you still cannot see from the evidence [I have not even looked, remember I have no opinion on this cover], with a defective MSNC stamp added to a genuine $5 retail cover, and a very clumsy forger added the date and initial in manuscript to the heavily defective stamp, that Levy liked, and he peddled it for years - as he owned it.

Levy bought the faked cover at a Downies Melbourne Auction in the 1970s and HE was the vendor at Corinphila back in October 1992 ALSO by Corinphila Switzerland for 14,950 Swiss francs, or double the 7500 franc pre-sale estimate.

Rod Perry was a good friend of Allan Levy's, and Rod formed the greatest collection of stamps of the State of Victoria ever assembled, by far, Large Gold International level. Rod examined the MSNC cover in great detail in person, and stated here many times it was an obvious fake, and that he actually knew the Melbourne collector who faked it.
Now I am sure that the late Rod Perry would agree that J.R.W. Purves was a great collector of Victoria?

Now remember that both Rod Perry and I made the same mistake on the same stamp, the fake Western Australia 4d. Inverted Frame [Williams XV] way back in 1977 which has been discussed in another Stampboards thread.
Global Administrator wrote:
28 Jan 2021 09:36
capetriangle wrote:
28 Jan 2021 01:44

I have read the description and there is no mention of Allan Levy's name in it. H

Richard we know you cannot pick fake covers, but surely you can READ Basic English ? -

J. Downey, sale 155, 1977 (bought by Allan Levy) Collection 'Antoine', Corinphila sale 85, Oct 1992, lot 3866.

https://corinphila.ch/de/_auctions/&action=showLots&auctionI ... s=1&page=4

The link above takes you to the current Corinphila sale only.


It has no Expert Committee certificate, and Tony Presgrave, Rodney Perry and Dr. Geoffrey Kellow all agree it is 105% bogus.

I would be more than willing to accept Rod Perry's and Dr. Geoffrey Kellow's opinions that the cover is faked but remember I have no opinion on it. For Heaven's sakes I only learnt about the wretched stamp itself today. The other gentleman, Tony Presgrave I do not know, so therefore I cannot have an opinion on his expertise.

It may well sell to someone with more money than sense who collects Private Steamship Mails etc, but it is fake.

The leading priced site for locals and Revenues is David Elsmore's and he prices the cover at $A250 -
Let's see what happen in the sale in Zurich in a few hours?

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Global Administrator »

.
The link I gave was to the CURRENT Corinphila auction where it clearly states Allan Levy was the buyer in 1970s from Downes. Why you say they do not mention that fact, only you know.

Bill Purves was a collector, and his view is dated 1977 - near a half Century ago. Times move on.

Since then, the cover has been universally branded a fake by the 2 most esteemed modern collectors of the State of Victoria, Rodney Perry and Geoffrey Kellow, and as I said, it has received no Expert Committee Certificate on it EVER.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by capetriangle »

Global Administrator wrote:
28 Jan 2021 12:04
.
The link I gave was to the CURRENT Corinphila auction where it clearly states Allan Levy was the buyer in 1970s from Downes. Why you say they do not mention that fact, only you know.

Bill Purves was a collector, and his view is dated 1977 - near a half Century ago. Times move on.

Since then, the cover has been universally branded a fake by the 2 most esteemed modern collectors of the State of Victoria, Rodney Perry and Geoffrey Kellow, and as I said, it has received no Expert Committee Certificate on it EVER.

Well I looked at the printed copy of the auction catalogue sent to me by Corinphila and on page 149 where lot 6382 appears, there is no mention of Allan Levy's name.

Provenance is given as Frederick E. Wood, Melbourne, 1964; P.J.Downey, Sale 155, 1977; Collection 'Antoine', Corinphila sale 85, Oct 1992, lot 3866

I have read and reread the printed description at least five times and I assure you there is no mention of Allan Levy's name.

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by capetriangle »

Glen

Further to the above, I have now just looked at the website from the link that you gave and the description there does mention the Allan Levy name as you suggested.

However NOT in the printed copy of the catalogue, I assure you. Perhaps someone has a copy of the printed catalogue in the Sydney area, maybe David Benson?

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

Glen Stephens wrote:Since then, the cover has been universally branded a fake by the 2 most esteemed modern collectors of the State of Victoria, Rodney Perry and Geoffrey Kellow, and as I said, it has received no Expert Committee Certificate on it EVER.


AFAIK Geoff Kellow has never stated in writing that the cover is a fake. In his 1990 book he said the opposite, that it was genuine. Where and when did he "universally brand" the cover as fake?

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

capetriangle wrote:
28 Jan 2021 12:40
Further to the above, I have now just looked at the website from the link that you gave and the description there does mention the Allan Levy name as you suggested.

However NOT in the printed copy of the catalogue, I assure you. Perhaps someone has a copy of the printed catalogue in the Sydney area, maybe David Benson?


Quite correct. The printed catalogue contains no mention of Levy but the online version does.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by capetriangle »

MJ's pet wrote:
28 Jan 2021 12:57

Quite correct. The printed catalogue contains no mention of Levy but the online version does.
Many thanks, my reading ability is apparently restored.

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Global Administrator »

Global Administrator wrote:
28 Jan 2021 09:36

Richard we know you cannot pick fake covers, but surely you can READ Basic English ? -

J. Downey, sale 155, 1977 (bought by Allan Levy) Collection 'Antoine', Corinphila sale 85, Oct 1992, lot 3866.

https://corinphila.ch/de/_auctions/&action=showLots&auctionI ... s=1&page=4

The link I gave BEFORE you stated Allan Levy is not mentioned, is there for all to see. Clearly you did not bother to click it. Auction websites are often updated with extra relevant info as you well know.
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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by capetriangle »

Global Administrator wrote:
28 Jan 2021 13:08
Global Administrator wrote:
28 Jan 2021 09:36

Richard we know you cannot pick fake covers, but surely you can READ Basic English ? -

J. Downey, sale 155, 1977 (bought by Allan Levy) Collection 'Antoine', Corinphila sale 85, Oct 1992, lot 3866.

https://corinphila.ch/de/_auctions/&action=showLots&auctionI ... s=1&page=4

The link I gave BEFORE you stated Allan Levy is not mentioned, is there for all to see. Clearly you did not bother to click it. Auction websites are often updated with extra relevant info as you well know.
Manifestly no you did not.

The link first appeared in your post dated Thu Jan 28, 2021 08:36:53 am
My post that you quoted was dated Thu Jan 28, 2021 00:44:00 am

Surely 00:44:00 am comes before 08:36:53 am, or am I missing something?

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Richard, you posted -

I have read the description and there is no mention of Allan Levy's name in it.

How is anyone to know you were speaking ONLY of a printed catalogue. Before making such a definitive statement, checking the web listing was clearly savvy. That is how most of us determine up to date descriptions.

Anyway no matter how you duck and dive, and split hairs, the cover Allan Levy peddled so heavily globally is a total FRAUD.

You were mightily impressed with his (apparently) agreeing with your mad theory on the GB cover, so all the pieces fit in.

Blind leading the blind!

Now lets get BACK to the thread title which is -

The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)
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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by Number-O-Ne »

.
I looked at the cover's pictures on Corinphila catalog. I have no knowledge of Australia stamps (though I'm acquiring some now, thanks to you guys).

On the other hand, I'm familiar with classical postal history. I'm not collecting now, but I collected Ottoman Empire postal history for few decades, and got an international gold with it more than a decade ago.

The cover in question shows the most basic "red flag" of a fake cover: the two stamps are at separate stages of aging. I understand paper and gum differences can account for different appearances. In this case, however, the appearances of the two stamps are a lot more different.

It doesn't even pass the "first impression test".

Thanks everybody for the interesting discussion. It's certainly nice to learn new things.
.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by tapstamp »

.
Good afternoon All,

Alan Levy is alive and well, have just had an hour conversation with him on the phone.

He is back living in St. Kilda, Still collecting and dealing in stamps, but gradually slowing down.

Still an avid St. Kilda supporter and we had a great discussion about Donald Trump. I have an interest in American politics as have a Daughter -In -Law and two Grandchildren over there.

Apologies for being off topic.

Regards Tom
Ageing stamp collector

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

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Thanks tapstamp

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

Not from the 1980s, but the early 1990s, here is a column I found when looking for something else.

***********

A FEW COINS IN THE PLATE

By TERRY INGRAM
Apr 15, 1993 Australian Financial Review, https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury/arts-and-culture/a-few-coins-in-the-plate-19930415-k5ejd

DOUBLE Bay is buzzing with tales of Lenin and Ivan following the commencement of Tim Goodman's auctions in the old telephone exchange behind Woolworths.

At Mr Goodman's first sale on March 28, Mr Goodman sold a dinner plate transfer-printed with the head of Lenin, agricultural scenes and the motto If you don't work you will not eat.

The plate sold for $2,000, against an upwardly revised estimate of$400-800.

Judy Maus secured the plate in competition against two other keen bidders.

The plate was consigned by a vendor in Chile. The vendor for Mr Goodman's next sale also comes from that part of the world.

On May 3, Mr Goodman will be selling the stock of Holland Fine Art and some of the family collection of property developer Ivan Holland (proprietor of the Manhattan Hotel) and his son, Alex.

Holland Fine Art is staying in the business but toning down the modern end. It is moving from a unit in Cross Street to Alfred Buxton's antique shop in Knox Street, after purchasing the small shop direct from Mr Buxton for$220,000.

The sale will include art glass, in which the Hollands have had a special interest, as well as paintings.

The Hollands come from Mexico, coincidentally the erstwhile stomping ground of another great Russian revolutionary, Leon Trotsky.

EVEN though not full of banknotes, an old envelope will help someone pay the rent as a result of its sale in Melbourne last month for $7,260.

The envelope, posted in around 1847, featured the score to You have to pay the rent, boy and an illustration of a landlord at his desk with the tenant scratching his face.

Adelaide stamp dealer David Mortimer secured the unlisted envelope, addressed to a Penrith, Scotland watchmaker, in competition with New York dealer Abe Levy, in town for the sale.

At the sale of postal history conducted by Macray Watson Auctions in Melbourne on March 30 [1993], the same duo battled over an envelope, only two of which are known. Also posted in 1847, it depicts the Ben Nevis.

Mr Mortimer scaled the heights to reach the top of the market first.

Auctioneer Ian Kitchin said the envelopes came from an old collection but declined to elaborate on whether this was a trade or private source.

The estimates were only $200 and $300, respectively.

Mr Kitchin said the special nature of the material made it difficult to come up with an accurate estimate, and that it was felt the market was best left to take care of the rarities.

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Re: The 1980's "Stamp Boom" in Australia (and elsewhere)

Post by MJ's pet »

john6625 posted this is another thread (https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9532&p=7406560#p7406560). Posting it here for the record:

stamppex.jpg

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