Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by mmaddury »

I agree that the stamp is genuine. The bright blue stamps show a wide variation of color.

Below are three shades of SG17 ranging from bright to dark (dull?) blue.

111.png

I don't think your stamp is ultramarine, royal blue, indigo or deep blue black. IMO, it is duller shade of bright blue. Would be interesting to see what BPA says about it.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by indianchariots »

medicoirfan wrote:
20 Apr 2021 16:33
Their was an article on "Raj Service" overprints on QV stamps in Jaipur state. Do anybody remember, in which issue of india post was it published ????
"Raj" Service


Hey medicoirfan

There is very little what has been written on the subject so far. Following references will give you some introduction on the subject:

India Post #58 from 1978 - This has a short article on these elusive QV overprints of Jaipur by the prolific writer P.M. Medhora. But sadly its more sort of a query than answers on the subject.

As a reply to this query, there is a note in the following IP edition #59 by G.M. Rosamond.

And perhaps the most detailed compilation of articles in the IP #60.

You could also ref to a short misleading note in The Philatelist-PJGB vol 5 1985.


I along with another co-collector have been doing a research on the subject for last 7 years or so and will be glad to answer questions if you have any on the subject. We have been exercising some restraint on their images as that could trigger a wave of fakes once available in good resolution on the web. And this area fortunately isn't infested by forgeries as yet. You will appreciate the fact that the basic stamp without the overprint as such is worth peanuts.

The overprints used to be listed by Gibbons in the Part 1 till 1950s or so under the Conventional States with heading Jeypore (how interesting), after which they decided to take the listing off. Attached is a snapshot of their listing from the Gibbons Part 1, 1912 to quench your curiosity.

SG 1912 Part 1 RAJ Service.png
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by medicoirfan »

Thank you so much Indianchariot for the detailed reply. And the IP 60 throw quite a light on these over prints. I had some questions,
1. I had seen red overprint - Serif font,,,,but never had seen black overprint, which is mentioned in IP 60. Is it (the black) also a serif font or it is San serif font like the green rubber stamp.
2. I had not seen a green overprint in used condition.....while all the used stamps seems to be with only red overprint. Is their any involvement of fakes or forgery,,,,,,,,as most of the complete sets seen were of green variety and mint ...
3. Public works Department for which these were made....In Hindi , present times it is called as सार्वजनिक निर्माण विभाग ...Do we know its name in that time, like some Departments were "Mahkama-e-khaas", Mahkama-e-alicouncil etc...

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by RoCe »

mmaddury wrote:
21 Apr 2021 15:47
I agree that the stamp is genuine. The bright blue stamps show a wide variation of color.

Below are three shades of SG17 ranging from bright to dark (dull?) blue.

I don't think your stamp is ultramarine, royal blue, indigo or deep blue black. IMO, it is duller shade of bright blue. Would be interesting to see what BPA says about it.
The stamp doesn’t match perfectly neither catalogued color of early blues nor later bright blues. But I agree that bright blues with their wider range of shades would probably be the safest harbor. Even though shade of the stamp is different (lighter) than any shade of my bright blues.
J&K bright blues
J&K bright blues
In reality, situation is probably less clear than catalogued colors might indicate. Frits Staal is talking about ultramarine and dull blue printings (can it be dull blue?), Peter Röver in his brilliant article in India Post (2005, No. 161) proposes 3 further shades of 1867 printings (deep blue, deep ultramarine and deep violet-blue) and kashmirstamps.com also speaks about “different shades under the ultramarine idea”.

There are 2 or 3 small spots on the stamp where the original intensity of color looks to be still untouched. I will now focus more on them as they might help with identification.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

Those are really nice bright blue circulars. I will settle for a one nice of each main type!

Changing the topic but staying in Jammu/Kashmir, please take a look at the image below. Looks like it is from an oldish collection but only the two bottom stamps are labelled reprints. These all look like reprints to me -- far too clear, I would think. Or am I wrong? Please comment.

SG50-60s reprints or what mapka as originals.jpg

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by RoCe »

banknoteguy wrote:
23 Apr 2021 03:56
Those are really nice bright blue circulars. I will settle for a one nice of each main type!

Changing the topic but staying in Jammu/Kashmir, please take a look at the image below. Looks like it is from an oldish collection but only the two bottom stamps are labelled reprints. These all look like reprints to me -- far too clear, I would think. Or am I wrong? Please comment.
All stamps are forgeries.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by medicoirfan »

medicoirfan wrote:
22 Apr 2021 04:03
Thank you so much Indianchariot for the detailed reply. And the IP 60 throw quite a light on these over prints. I had some questions,
1. I had seen red overprint - Serif font,,,,but never had seen black overprint, which is mentioned in IP 60. Is it (the black) also a serif font or it is San serif font like the green rubber stamp.
2. I had not seen a green overprint in used condition.....while all the used stamps seems to be with only red overprint. Is their any involvement of fakes or forgery,,,,,,,,as most of the complete sets seen were of green variety and mint ...
3. Public works Department for which these were made....In Hindi , present times it is called as सार्वजनिक निर्माण विभाग ...Do we know its name in that time, like some Departments were "Mahkama-e-khaas", Mahkama-e-alicouncil etc...
Ok... In IP 58, their is a pic of used Green handstamp.
Red and black were Type print , so both were serif print.
Finally, we still need to see some official document about these stamps. Which may be available in state archives at Bikaner. Also I cant find any mention of a cover with these stamps....

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by indianchariots »

medicoirfan wrote:
22 Apr 2021 04:03
Thank you so much Indianchariot for the detailed reply. And the IP 60 throw quite a light on these over prints.
Glad that the IP references were of some use to you in understanding them better. There is so much about them that needs to be researched and written that what's available to us barely scratches the surface of the subject.

medicoirfan wrote:
22 Apr 2021 04:03
I had some questions,
1. I had seen red overprint - Serif font,,,,but never had seen black overprint, which is mentioned in IP 60. Is it (the black) also a serif font or it is San serif font like the green rubber stamp.
The "RAJ" Service stamps of Jaipur were prepared for the Jaipur Public Works Department between 1886 and 1890. The first issue was Typeset in Red & Black ink in Serif type letters, with '"RAJ"' in capitals and 'Service' in upper and lower case letters. They were put to use in 1888. Many commercially used copies dated 1888 have been recorded. The type was set in blocks of four, giving rise to four varieties of each value.

medicoirfan wrote:
22 Apr 2021 04:03
2. I had not seen a green overprint in used condition.....while all the used stamps seems to be with only red overprint. Is their any involvement of fakes or forgery,,,,,,,,as most of the complete sets seen were of green variety and mint ...
The second issue, with hand-stamped overprints in bluish-green sans-serif capitals, is recorded used in 1890. Although these stamps should be regarded as Cinderellas rather than Official stamps, their obvious rarity makes the highly collectible items.

And yes, black ones are often difficult to find. Fortunately this space isn't flooded with forgeries as yet. What's usually found commercially used is often the Red typographed overprints.

All three kinds of overprints, the Typographs and the Hand-stamped ones, were done on four QV values of the India 1883 issue - ½a., 1a., 2as. and 4as, making a basic set of 12, if you were to ignore the settings or the differences between the individual type themselves.

medicoirfan wrote:
22 Apr 2021 04:03
3. Public works Department for which these were made....In Hindi , present times it is called as सार्वजनिक निर्माण विभाग ...Do we know its name in that time, like some Departments were "Mahkama-e-khaas", Mahkama-e-alicouncil etc...
It needs to be understood that the use of the term 'RAJ' here should not be conjectured as an abbreviation of 'Rajputana'. Word RAJ was then used by officials of Indian States on articles which were meant for business of that State.

Here is a sample postal stationary from the PWD, Public Works Department of Jaipur. Notice the curious usage of the words on top center - ON RAJ SERVICE
ON RAJ SERVICE - J.S.P.W.D 96 pspc a.jpg
ON RAJ SERVICE - J.S.P.W.D 96 pspc b.jpg
Do take a note of the words on the top right corner of this official pspc which read - J.S.P.W.D. 96, meaning Jaipur State Public Works Dept 1896 (year of printing of this stationary for the dept).
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by indianchariots »

I'm sure you might noticed these RAJ Service typographed & hand-stamped examples which sold in the recently concluded Hasse Brockenhuus sale at Heinrich Koehler. Here's an image for posterity on the thread.

ScreenHunter_82 Apr. 23 13.02.jpg

Needless to mention, clearly dated cancellations here are always desirable, as you keep getting closer to the story by finding such missing pieces from the puzzle.
“Be like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there.”

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by RogerE »

Nice stamps from the Koehler sale. But it looks to me that 5108 and 5109, with "JEYPORE" date stamps,
are blue rather than green, as described. :?

/RogerE :D

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by medicoirfan »

indianchariots wrote:
23 Apr 2021 18:26
medicoirfan wrote:
22 Apr 2021 04:03
Thank you so much Indianchariot for the detailed reply. And the IP 60 throw quite a light on these over prints.
Glad that the IP references were of some use to you in understanding them better. There is so much about them that needs to be researched and written that what's available to us barely scratches the surface of the subject.

medicoirfan wrote:
22 Apr 2021 04:03
I had some questions,
1. I had seen red overprint - Serif font,,,,but never had seen black overprint, which is mentioned in IP 60. Is it (the black) also a serif font or it is San serif font like the green rubber stamp.
The "RAJ" Service stamps of Jaipur were prepared for the Jaipur Public Works Department between 1886 and 1890. The first issue was Typeset in Red & Black ink in Serif type letters, with '"RAJ"' in capitals and 'Service' in upper and lower case letters. They were put to use in 1888. Many commercially used copies dated 1888 have been recorded. The type was set in blocks of four, giving rise to four varieties of each value.

medicoirfan wrote:
22 Apr 2021 04:03
2. I had not seen a green overprint in used condition.....while all the used stamps seems to be with only red overprint. Is their any involvement of fakes or forgery,,,,,,,,as most of the complete sets seen were of green variety and mint ...
The second issue, with hand-stamped overprints in bluish-green sans-serif capitals, is recorded used in 1890. Although these stamps should be regarded as Cinderellas rather than Official stamps, their obvious rarity makes the highly collectible items.

And yes, black ones are often difficult to find. Fortunately this space isn't flooded with forgeries as yet. What's usually found commercially used is often the Red typographed overprints.

All three kinds of overprints, the Typographs and the Hand-stamped ones, were done on four QV values of the India 1883 issue - ½a., 1a., 2as. and 4as, making a basic set of 12, if you were to ignore the settings or the differences between the individual type themselves.

medicoirfan wrote:
22 Apr 2021 04:03
3. Public works Department for which these were made....In Hindi , present times it is called as सार्वजनिक निर्माण विभाग ...Do we know its name in that time, like some Departments were "Mahkama-e-khaas", Mahkama-e-alicouncil etc...
It needs to be understood that the use of the term 'RAJ' here should not be conjectured as an abbreviation of 'Rajputana'. Word RAJ was then used by officials of Indian States on articles which were meant for business of that State.

Here is a sample postal stationary from the PWD, Public Works Department of Jaipur. Notice the curious usage of the words on top center - ON RAJ SERVICE

Image

Image

Do take a note of the words on the top right corner of this official pspc which read - J.S.P.W.D. 96, meaning Jaipur State Public Works Dept 1896 (year of printing of this stationary for the dept).
A lot clear picture, Thank u so much
The post card is beautiful.
Also, the term "Raj", I was thinking it as Rajputana short form only, but now I can see it was for state services.
Last edited by medicoirfan on 24 Apr 2021 02:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by medicoirfan »

indianchariots wrote:
23 Apr 2021 18:36
I'm sure you might noticed these RAJ Service typographed & hand-stamped examples which sold in the recently concluded Hasse Brockenhuus sale at Heinrich Koehler. Here's an image for posterity on the thread.


Image


Needless to mention, clearly dated cancellations here are always desirable, as you keep getting closer to the story by finding such missing pieces from the puzzle.
Yes, I have noticed these.
Before this sale, I remember one pair of One anna, red typograph sold in Marudhar auction(2019) in India.
One green handstamp set of four was sold as lot no 1072 in Park collection sale in 2011
Mr Tony mentioned a sale of set of green handstamp in 2006 in london, in perhaps this thread or some other thread only.
One used red typo is still available on ebay
Apart from these, cant find any other reference.

Black Typo seems to be rarest.
Still a genuine cover to be seen.
A mention in state records about these need to be discovered.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by shivnair »

RoCe wrote:
23 Apr 2021 02:50
mmaddury wrote:
21 Apr 2021 15:47
I agree that the stamp is genuine. The bright blue stamps show a wide variation of color.

Below are three shades of SG17 ranging from bright to dark (dull?) blue.

I don't think your stamp is ultramarine, royal blue, indigo or deep blue black. IMO, it is duller shade of bright blue. Would be interesting to see what BPA says about it.
The stamp doesn’t match perfectly neither catalogued color of early blues nor later bright blues. But I agree that bright blues with their wider range of shades would probably be the safest harbor. Even though shade of the stamp is different (lighter) than any shade of my bright blues.

Image

In reality, situation is probably less clear than catalogued colors might indicate. Frits Staal is talking about ultramarine and dull blue printings (can it be dull blue?), Peter Röver in his brilliant article in India Post (2005, No. 161) proposes 3 further shades of 1867 printings (deep blue, deep ultramarine and deep violet-blue) and kashmirstamps.com also speaks about “different shades under the ultramarine idea”.

There are 2 or 3 small spots on the stamp where the original intensity of color looks to be still untouched. I will now focus more on them as they might help with identification.
For those into Kashmir stamps, here is a link to one of the most famous Kashmir collections ever sold, The Hellrigl collection. https://www.museumofphilately.com/collection/19
#shivshankarnair

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

mukulgarga wrote:
17 Apr 2021 11:54
digeriukas wrote:
17 Apr 2021 03:10
Once again, expert opinion is needed :)

Is this a genuine Bhopal SG 46 sheet ?


ImageImage
Yes the sheet is Genuine. 1895 SG46 ½anna black imperf sheet of 8 (2x4), lettered "W W" for "H H" and Octagonal Begum Shah Jahan embossing at the back typical of these issues.
Thank you for the info ;)

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

Are these sheets genuine ? Looks ok to me :roll:

Jaipur SG 18a
Jaipur SG 18a
Jaipur SG 20a
Jaipur SG 20a
Nawanagar SG 6
Nawanagar SG 6

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

digeriukas wrote:
28 Apr 2021 01:50
Are these sheets genuine ? Looks ok to me :roll:


ImageImageImage
Yes, these are all genuine.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

ikanek wrote:
28 Apr 2021 03:08
digeriukas wrote:
28 Apr 2021 01:50
Are these sheets genuine ? Looks ok to me :roll:


ImageImageImage
Yes, these are all genuine.
Just as I thought. Thanks ! ;)

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by indianchariots »

digeriukas wrote:
28 Apr 2021 01:50
Are these sheets genuine ? Looks ok to me :roll:


Image
Hey digeriukas

While I don't wish to be a bearer of a bad news, but this platform is known to share knowledge and truth is kind of bitter at times. This Jaipur Jail Press 1Anna sheet of yours is genuine beyond doubts but not a True Double. Its just a kiss print. Here is some information for you, which I have already shared on this thread earlier.

508 GH SG.jpg
ScreenHunter_84 Apr. 27 22.41.jpg
A true double printed 1Anna certified copy from the Harell Sale. When the Lot went under the hammer in the auction hall, one could see jaws touching the floor, as the unique group sold for a super-astronomical price tag.


I have seen & handled a certified copy of a true double print and a certified copy of a kiss print in the past. And I can certainly tell you for sure that yours isn't a true double. Send it to BPA for a litmus test and you will have your answers. Having said that, kiss prints aren't common at all. Price is a very subjective thing here. So would rather not comment on that aspect.

According to the text book, a true double printed 1Anna example is where the sheet has been fed twice thru the press consciously. The second impression in these cases is a very prominent one, unlike the kiss prints which are usually caused by an unexpected jar or shake of the printing plate in the typography process. The second/double impression in these cases of kiss prints is invariably a weak one, where the center cliches don't get doubled at all.

I wish this was music to your ears, but it is what it is you see.

All the best for your collecting endeavors.
Cheers!
“Be like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there.”

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

indianchariots wrote:
30 Apr 2021 03:53
digeriukas wrote:
28 Apr 2021 01:50
Are these sheets genuine ? Looks ok to me :roll:


Image
Hey digeriukas

While I don't wish to be a bearer of a bad news, but this platform is known to share knowledge and truth is kind of bitter at times. This Jaipur Jail Press 1Anna sheet of yours is genuine beyond doubts but not a True Double. Its just a kiss print. Here is some information for you, which I have already shared on this thread earlier.


Image
Image
A true double printed 1Anna certified copy from the Harell Sale. When the Lot went under the hammer in the auction hall, one could see jaws touching the floor, as the unique group sold for a super-astronomical price tag.


I have seen & handled a certified copy of a true double print and a certified copy of a kiss print in the past. And I can certainly tell you for sure that yours isn't a true double. Send it to BPA for a litmus test and you will have your answers. Having said that, kiss prints aren't common at all. Price is a very subjective thing here. So would rather not comment on that aspect.

According to the text book, a true double printed 1Anna example is where the sheet has been fed twice thru the press consciously. The second impression in these cases is a very prominent one, unlike the kiss prints which are usually caused by an unexpected jar or shake of the printing plate in the typography process. The second/double impression in these cases of kiss prints is invariably a weak one, where the center cliches don't get doubled at all.

I wish this was music to your ears, but it is what it is you see.

All the best for your collecting endeavors.
Cheers!
Thank you for information. I don't own this item, so your post is no bad news ;) This thread is amazing, saves loads of money :)

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

digeriukas wrote:
30 Apr 2021 04:22
indianchariots wrote:
30 Apr 2021 03:53
digeriukas wrote:
28 Apr 2021 01:50
Are these sheets genuine ? Looks ok to me :roll:


Image
Hey digeriukas

While I don't wish to be a bearer of a bad news, but this platform is known to share knowledge and truth is kind of bitter at times. This Jaipur Jail Press 1Anna sheet of yours is genuine beyond doubts but not a True Double. Its just a kiss print. Here is some information for you, which I have already shared on this thread earlier.


Image
Image
A true double printed 1Anna certified copy from the Harell Sale. When the Lot went under the hammer in the auction hall, one could see jaws touching the floor, as the unique group sold for a super-astronomical price tag.


I have seen & handled a certified copy of a true double print and a certified copy of a kiss print in the past. And I can certainly tell you for sure that yours isn't a true double. Send it to BPA for a litmus test and you will have your answers. Having said that, kiss prints aren't common at all. Price is a very subjective thing here. So would rather not comment on that aspect.

According to the text book, a true double printed 1Anna example is where the sheet has been fed twice thru the press consciously. The second impression in these cases is a very prominent one, unlike the kiss prints which are usually caused by an unexpected jar or shake of the printing plate in the typography process. The second/double impression in these cases of kiss prints is invariably a weak one, where the center cliches don't get doubled at all.

I wish this was music to your ears, but it is what it is you see.

All the best for your collecting endeavors.
Cheers!
Thank you for information. I don't own this item, so your post is no bad news ;) This thread is amazing, saves loads of money :)
However someone paid 390USD on Ebay for this item recently. If he's a member of this board, he should ask for a refund in my opinion.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

Maybe someone could identify SG number of these Poonch stamps ? Images are from internet. Probably they are not good enought for exact indentification...


pooncha.jpg
poonchb.jpg
poonchc.jpg
poonchd.jpg

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

The stamps look genuine to my eyes. But without being able to handle the paper and look through it, I think you will only get guesses. It is a 1p value.

These could be a number of different SG varieties based on what kind of paper it is. My guess would be SG27 (yellow wove batonne) or SG36 (Yellow laid) both fairly common. It might be SG41 (yellow laid batonne) which is less common. However, the paper looks like it might be ribbed and batonne which might indicate SG11 which has a catalog value of about GBP70.

Others with more experience may be able to identify it by the sheet configuration or setting.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Lundy »

Hi all,

Grateful for any help, as I don't really have any of these and know absolutely nothing... Jammu and Kashmir I believe, am I right in identifying these as SG91 or SG92?

Jammu and Kashmir Stamps
Jammu and Kashmir Stamps
Thanks all

Lundy :)

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

Lundy wrote:
02 May 2021 02:01
Hi all,

Grateful for any help, as I don't really have any of these and know absolutely nothing... Jammu and Kashmir I believe, am I right in identifying these as SG91 or SG92?


Image

Thanks all

Lundy :)
Yes, you are correct. A nice pair with typical brick-red seal cancellation.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Lundy »

Thanks Peterh,

Another gap filled and reference added to my collection- really appreciate the help

Lundy :)

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by mukulgarga »

Can somebody identify the Type of this overprint. It's not T19 for sure.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

It looks closest to T18 but sans stops. So, I would say it does not match any of the documented overprints at least the ones documented by SG -- a caveat being that my only reference is SG. Note what they say at the end of the section:
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by mukulgarga »

banknoteguy wrote:
08 May 2021 22:53
It looks closest to T18 but sans stops. So, I would say it does not match any of the documented overprints at least the ones documented by SG -- a caveat being that my only reference is SG. Note what they say at the end of the section:
Image
T18 is Optd by Waterlow & Sons and are absolutely neat machine overprints. This is stamp is hand stamped.
On a closer look it seems to be T 23, SG102.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

Hmmm. Not sure I agree. See the image below. I scaled T23 to match your image - acutally I matched the left/right S size. Looking at the resultant image with grid lines added the position of the O and the bottom S are wrong as is the size of the O and the relative placement of the "n" in On. So while I think it is very similar to T23, I don't think it is a match.

Sirmoor Ovprt Comp T23.jpg

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by mukulgarga »

In the hand stamped overprints as all the 4 impressions viz. On,S S,S were struck separately in different operations their position relative to each other is immaterial.
However the shape of 'O' and the position of 'n' in 'On' definitely does not match with what Gibbons has shown.
So let's categorize it as unlisted. Can't call it unauthentic as its a properly used specimen at Nahan.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Hyderabadi »

Request help identifying the stamps in my small accumulation of Barwani - rather hard to tell them apart.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by iaincraven »

I think this Nawanagar is SG6, 1doc deep mauve with thin lines, between 15-18mm wide, used on part native cover.

But as SG doesn't quote any on cover price for SG6/12 thought I'd better check that nothing appears amiss with it? Do the seal cancels seem correct?

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

My tentative ids on image below:

Barwani labelled for Hyderabadi.jpg

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

banknoteguy wrote:
09 May 2021 04:40
My tentative ids on image below:


Image
I assume those are SG numbers?

If so, I generally agree. The SG 37 is a 37A and I think you mistyped the last one as SG 15; should be SG 14.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Hyderabadi »

So none of them are fakes - I feel lucky :D

Thank you both for the identification
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

Yes, SG numbers and thanks for catching my "typo" on the last one, SG14 is what my brain said to type but those darn fingers ...

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

iaincraven wrote:
09 May 2021 04:03
I think this Nawanagar is SG6, 1doc deep mauve with thin lines, between 15-18mm wide, used on part native cover.

But as SG doesn't quote any on cover price for SG6/12 thought I'd better check that nothing appears amiss with it? Do the seal cancels seem correct?


Image

Image
Member on here psphani (Srinivas) would probably be able to help you on this. He has studied these stamps in detail.

He hasn't posted here for several months, but you could try emailing him.

For me, your cover is a puzzle. SG 6 to 9 are I believe unknown on cover, probably because I understand they were printed to satisfy collectors.

However, SG 3 to 5 are found on cover, with mint being very rare.

The stamp on your cover could be a variety of SG 3, even though it has one thin frame line. The cancellation on the stamp is so indistinct that I cannot make any comment on it. The other (receipt?) mark may be OK, but I can't be certain.

The other possibility may be that the stamp is SG 6 but the cover has been faked.

If Srinivas does not respond, the cover may be worth submitting to BPA for an opinion.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

I am looking for opinions on whether the "Jammu/Kashmir stamp" below (well inked piece of paper) is an original or a reprint. I lean toward reprint but it is so crude, I can't rule out original.

Jammu eBay reprint or original.jpg

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

banknoteguy wrote:
10 May 2021 05:04
I am looking for opinions on whether the "Jammu/Kashmir stamp" below (well inked piece of paper) is an original or a reprint. I lean toward reprint but it is so crude, I can't rule out original.


Image
Looks like watercolour and native paper, if so will be SG 60.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by mukulgarga »

digeriukas wrote:
01 May 2021 22:26
Maybe someone could identify SG number of these Poonch stamps ? Images are from internet. Probably they are not good enought for exact indentification...



ImageImageImageImage
From a new scan posted by the seller on request it is clear that the paper is yellow and not the bluish green as it appeared in the original scans. So this puts the stamp as SG41 1pice on Yellow Batonne Paper. The stamp is recorded by Douie as had been used in August 1887.
The stamp is very scarce and I still do not have a mint example with me.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by sagi2917 »

Please advise if these Bussahir state stamps are genuine. The image quality is as received from the seller

Stamp 1:
Bussahir.jpg

Stamp2:
Bussahir1.jpg

Stamp3:
Bussahir2.jpg

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

sagi2917 wrote:
13 May 2021 02:56
Please advise if these Bussahir state stamps are genuine. The image quality is as received from the seller

Stamp 1:
Image


Stamp2:
Image


Stamp3:
Image
Stamp 1 looks ok for SG 10.

Stamp 2 might be ok for SG 29, but the shade seems wrong to me and may well be a reprint.

Stamp 3 definitely a reprint with 'PS' monogram.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by sagi2917 »

Thank you peterh

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by shivnair »

I wonder how many of this Board's members participated in the SG Auction of proofs, color trials and essays on the 11nth and 12th?. It was a once in a lifetime sale of material, some never seen before, including some hand painted essays for Cochin . The catalog alone is a major reference material. The catalog can be accessed here
https://auctions.stanleygibbons.com/india-area-day-2/2021-05-12
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by ivosteijn »

One participant here, as you know. Since this auction was for material from one dealer and two collectors, it was indeed a rare opportunity, especially for us revenue fans.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by iaincraven »

The catalog alone is a major reference material.
It really is a great reference. I've got two spare copies which I can send out at postage cost to anyone who missed getting a hardcopy. Only catch is its almost 1kg so Airmail International post would quite pricey and not super cheap for "economy / surface".

I won some of the British India material, but had no success with my IFS Revenue bids.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by mikyh »

I was online for most of the 2nd day. It was very enjoyable to watch and take part in. As expected most on my wants list were beyond my reach and went for between 3 and 10 times estimate.

I came away with 4 items including the one I really wanted :) so I'm happy.

According to Royal Mail, they arrive tomorrow, that's what I call exceptional service!!

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

I participated on both days and ended with 8 won lots - one lot with Travancore official sheets and 7 revenue lots - some collections and some of the proofs and essays. I only wished to have more funds for the lots.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by ivosteijn »

ikanek wrote:
15 May 2021 05:46
I participated on both days and ended with 8 won lots - one lot with Travancore official sheets and 7 revenue lots - some collections and some of the proofs and essays. I only wished to have more funds for the lots.
I was not unhappy with getting 3 out of the 4 lots I bid on, but of course regretted not bidding on more - how often do you see lots like that?
Who says I don't have a conscience? I have 10!

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

ivosteijn wrote:
15 May 2021 11:44
I was not unhappy with getting 3 out of the 4 lots I bid on, but of course regretted not bidding on more - how often do you see lots like that?
The best lots were proofs and essays and these are rarely offered. The issued revenue stamps can be found more often. However, what I found quite strange, that almost no stamped papers were offered.

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