Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

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Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Having made a collection of the Russian Zone stamps arranged according to the Stanley Gibbons (SG) catalogue (Germany 12th edition) I thought it might be instructive to see them. This is a nice area to collect.

As a Germany collector I use the specialised Michel catalogues but it is somehow refreshing to use SG that simplifies matters greatly.


Reference shovel also be made to a thread here

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16899&start=200


Here are the different OPDs.



Figure 1. Table showing OPDs for Russian Zone stamps. OPD stands for Oberpostdirektionen, the Higher Postal Directorates, defined by the Russians.
Figure 1. Table showing OPDs for Russian Zone stamps. OPD stands for Oberpostdirektionen, the Higher Postal Directorates, defined by the Russians.




The scans below show the SG numbering as well as CV in £ sterling (left value as mint, right value used) to get an idea as to the perceived scarcity.


Where there are stark differences between Michel and SG I will make comments.




BERLIN- BRANDENBERG (OPD BERLIN).

Below is a table based on SG showing stamps and CV for Berlin and Brandenburg Russian Zone stamps.


Figure 2. Table showing Berlin and brandenburg stamps from Russian Zone according to SG catalogue.
Figure 2. Table showing Berlin and brandenburg stamps from Russian Zone according to SG catalogue.

Note that there are two different perforations, P14 that are common and the far less common ´zig-zag`perforations (serrated).

Michel delves into the many paper types, shades and gum layering (ribbing) for these issues with widely different CVs.

One problem that is striking is the valuation of the 5Pf serrated stamp. Here the high value in Michel is only for a particular stamps with gum layering horizontally.


Figure 3. Berlin and Brandenburg mint and used stamps from SG RA1 to RA7 with P14.
Figure 3. Berlin and Brandenburg mint and used stamps from SG RA1 to RA7 with P14.




Figure 4. Berlin and Brandenburg mint and used stamps from SG RA8 to RA14 with serrated perfs.
Figure 4. Berlin and Brandenburg mint and used stamps from SG RA8 to RA14 with serrated perfs.


The 5pf above has horizontal ribbing of the gum, I have many serrated examples but with smooth gum or vertically striped gum are regarded as a different and ´cheap´CV types in Michel.

The zig zag serration is shown below.

Close up of serrated perforations for Berlin and Brandenburg stamps.
Close up of serrated perforations for Berlin and Brandenburg stamps.



There are hundreds of identified plate flaws for this series for all the denominations.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

MECKLENBURG-VORPOMMERN (OPD SCHWERIN

Pages below show the full range of issues for Mecklenburg-Vorpommern as outlined in SG with mint and used examples. a few missing you see.





Figure 5. SG RB6 to RB 8 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern stamps.
Figure 5. SG RB6 to RB 8 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern stamps.







Figure 5a. SG RB 1-3 enlarged.
Figure 5a. SG RB 1-3 enlarged.





Figure 5b. SG RB 4-8 enlarged.
Figure 5b. SG RB 4-8 enlarged.






Figure 5c. SG RB 9.12 enlarged.
Figure 5c. SG RB 9.12 enlarged.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Figure 6. SG. RB 13-15 mint and used Mecklenburg-Vorpommern examples.
Figure 6. SG. RB 13-15 mint and used Mecklenburg-Vorpommern examples.






Figure 7. SG. RB 16-18 mint and used Mecklenburg-Vorpommern examples.
Figure 7. SG. RB 16-18 mint and used Mecklenburg-Vorpommern examples.


I discovered used RB17a in my toils and include this here.


Figure 7a. SG. RB 17a on piece.
Figure 7a. SG. RB 17a on piece.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Figure 8. SG. RB 19-21 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern mint and used examples.
Figure 8. SG. RB 19-21 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern mint and used examples.







Figure 9. Full page SG RB 22-33 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern mint and used examples.
Figure 9. Full page SG RB 22-33 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern mint and used examples.




Figure 9a. Enlarged SG RB 22-27 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern mint and used examples.
Figure 9a. Enlarged SG RB 22-27 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern mint and used examples.




Figure 9b. Enlarged  SG RB 28-33 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern mint and used examples.
Figure 9b. Enlarged SG RB 28-33 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern mint and used examples.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

SAXONY (OPD DRESDEN)





Figure 10. SG Saxony RC1-RC7 Imp.
Figure 10. SG Saxony RC1-RC7 Imp.







Figure 11. SG Saxony RC8-RC19.
Figure 11. SG Saxony RC8-RC19.









Figure 11a Enlargements RC8-13.
Figure 11a Enlargements RC8-13.







Figure 11b Enlargements RC14-19.
Figure 11b Enlargements RC14-19.






Figure 12. Saxony RC20-RC25.
Figure 12. Saxony RC20-RC25.



Found a RC 22!
Found a RC 22!



Two perf varieties not dealt with in SG but with high Michel CVs.
Two perf varieties not dealt with in SG but with high Michel CVs.





Figure 13. Saxony RC26-RC31.
Figure 13. Saxony RC26-RC31.







Figure 13a. Enlargements Saxony RC26-RC28.
Figure 13a. Enlargements Saxony RC26-RC28.







Figure 13b. Enlargements Saxony RC29-RC31 Imp.
Figure 13b. Enlargements Saxony RC29-RC31 Imp.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

EAST SAXONY (OPD DRESDEN)

Note the SG PE should be RE in scans of stamps.

!!!! Damn.



Figure 14. SG. EAST SAXONY RE 2-12
Figure 14. SG. EAST SAXONY RE 2-12




SG. Figure 14a. EAST SAXONY enlargements RE 2-5
SG. Figure 14a. EAST SAXONY enlargements RE 2-5


SG. Figure 14b. EAST SAXONY enlargements RE 6-9
SG. Figure 14b. EAST SAXONY enlargements RE 6-9


SG. SG. Figure 14c .EAST SAXONY enlargements RE 9-12
SG. SG. Figure 14c .EAST SAXONY enlargements RE 9-12



Figure 15. SG. EAST SAXONY RE 13-20
Figure 15. SG. EAST SAXONY RE 13-20



Figure 15a. EAST SAXONY enlargements RE 13-15.
Figure 15a. EAST SAXONY enlargements RE 13-15.




Figure 15b. EAST SAXONY SG enlargements RE 16-20.
Figure 15b. EAST SAXONY SG enlargements RE 16-20.



Figure 16  SG. EAST SAXONY RE 21-24 Note mistake in RE 24 being labelled twice, red stamp is RE 25!
Figure 16 SG. EAST SAXONY RE 21-24 Note mistake in RE 24 being labelled twice, red stamp is RE 25!





Figure 16a. EAST SAXONY SG enlargements RE 21-25.
Figure 16a. EAST SAXONY SG enlargements RE 21-25.





16a. EAST SAXONY SG enlargements RE 24-25<br />Note mistake RE25 is red stamp.
16a. EAST SAXONY SG enlargements RE 24-25
Note mistake RE25 is red stamp.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

THURINGIA (OPD ERFURT)



Figure 17. SG.THURINGIA RF 1-8.
Figure 17. SG.THURINGIA RF 1-8.





Figure 17a. SG.THURINGIA enlargements RF 1-4.
Figure 17a. SG.THURINGIA enlargements RF 1-4.




Figure 17b. SG.THURINGIA enlargements RF 5-8.
Figure 17b. SG.THURINGIA enlargements RF 5-8.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Figure 18. SG.THURINGIA MS RF 11, MS RF 12.
Figure 18. SG.THURINGIA MS RF 11, MS RF 12.




Figure 19. SG.THURINGIA MS RF 11, MS RF 13-16.
Figure 19. SG.THURINGIA MS RF 11, MS RF 13-16.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Next and lastly, West Saxony (out of order, should be before Thuringia)!

Off to walk dogs in pouring rain.....

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

johnrcrow wrote:
19 Jul 2020 00:39
EAST SAXONY (OPD DRESDEN)

Image

Image
Scans can be misleading but your "PE23" is, I assume the same as Mi63?

If so it looks to me more like a Mi46. Michel gives paper for Mi63 as "grayish thin paper with shallow falling paper stripes". The paper also often seems to be tinged pink due to colour run.

Here is an example:

IMG_20200718_0005.jpg
SBZ Mi63II (Plate Flaw)

Here are Mi42-47 for comparison:

IMG_20200718_0008.jpg
SBZ Mi42-47

Here is my example of Mi41 (Now MiB1b):

IMG_20200718_0007.jpg
SBZ MiB1b

What do you think?

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Now for

WEST SAXONY (OPD LEIPZIG)

Figure 20. West Saxony SG RD1 to RD4 Imperforate.
Figure 20. West Saxony SG RD1 to RD4 Imperforate.







Figure 21. West Saxony SG RD5 to RD20.
Figure 21. West Saxony SG RD5 to RD20.







Figure 21a .West Saxony. Enlarged SG RD5 to RD10. Perf 13 x 12½.
Figure 21a .West Saxony. Enlarged SG RD5 to RD10. Perf 13 x 12½.





Figure 21b .West Saxony. Enlarged SG RD11 to RD16. Perf 13 x 12½.
Figure 21b .West Saxony. Enlarged SG RD11 to RD16. Perf 13 x 12½.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Figure 22. West Saxony SG RD19 to RD30.
Figure 22. West Saxony SG RD19 to RD30.





Figure 23. West Saxony SG RD31 to RD42.
Figure 23. West Saxony SG RD31 to RD42.




Figure 24. West Saxony SG RD43 to RD46. Perf.
Figure 24. West Saxony SG RD43 to RD46. Perf.
Attachments
Figure 24a. West Saxony SG RD43 to RD46.Imp
Figure 24a. West Saxony SG RD43 to RD46.Imp

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

I quite like the SG notation of mint. No NHM and HM see to debate.

The cancelled stamps need care as forgeries exist as for all higher value rated German stamps.

Better look at designs.

Berlin and Brandenburg. Bear stamps Oct 25th 1945. 30Pf issue represents small oak tree and ruins of Belle-Alliance Platz.

Very many plate flaws listed on many printing plates in specialised catalogues. Many shades and peer types i lists in Michel.


SG. RA1 5Pf
SG. RA1 5Pf





SG. RA2 5Pf
SG. RA2 5Pf





SG. RA3 5Pf
SG. RA3 5Pf



SG. RA4 5Pf
SG. RA4 5Pf





SG. RA5 5Pf
SG. RA5 5Pf





SG. RA6 5Pf
SG. RA6 5Pf





SG. RA7 5Pf
SG. RA7 5Pf

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Mecklenburg-Vorpommern

The small stamps. SG RB1, 2 and 3. Michel lists many shades and flaws. One can see the variation in printing quality even in these examples.


SG RB 1 with flaw.
SG RB 1 with flaw.





SG RB 2.
SG RB 2.





SG RB 3.
SG RB 3.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Mecklenburg-Vorpommern


The farmer ploughing stamps. SG. RB 4 to 8. Again many shades in Michel as well as flaws.
SG RB 5. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG RB 5. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern




SG. RB 6. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG. RB 6. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern




SG RB 7. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG RB 7. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern






SG RB 8. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG RB 8. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Mecklenburg-Vorpommern Ears of grain and farmhouse issues.

Interesting lot.

Michel lists 5 basic types even before we get to shades and flaws!

Out of interest here are the 5 types as in Michel specialised catalogue f0r the 8Pf stamps Michel 11-15.

5 types eRS MAIN.png

Here are some examples of mine.
Type I
Type I





Type II
Type II




Type III
Type III





Type IV
Type IV






Type V
Type V

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

SG 8PF STAMPS RB9-12.

Many flaws listed.

SG. RB9 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG. RB9 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern



SG. RB10  Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG. RB10 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern


SG. RB11  Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG. RB11 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern



SG. RB12  Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG. RB12 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Continued tomorrow....

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Somewhere above Olduffer1 posted concerning authenticity of some East Saxony stamps.

I missed this in the frenzy of getting in scans but he makes a good point.

Certainly I will check things.

In the mean time here is a hoard of red 12pf East Saxony stamps.

Michel shows the imp. 12pf June 28th 1945 as

46Aa red (common) (used 2.60)
46Ab dark pink red (scarcer) (used €30)

and then

Michel 60 Feb 1st 1946 dark pink red (shades) used €1.20 on thin greyish paper with falling paper stripes.

Below is the minor hoard MAINLY unsorted of 12pf reds I have. Some interesting stamps here.

Certainly the grey paper ones stand out as against the whiter papers.
12pf red e sax 1 copy.png





12pf r3d e sax 2 copy.png

Here is a select 46Aa taken from first page.


Given as Michel 46Aa.
Given as Michel 46Aa.


46Ab? 27th April 1945 cancel.
46Ab? 27th April 1945 cancel.


A group of cancelled 19455 stamps, top row three Mi.45Aa, bottom row Mi.46Ab?


Mi.46Aa and Mi.46Ab cancelled stamps (1945).
Mi.46Aa and Mi.46Ab cancelled stamps (1945).


Same group as above with enhancement (increase in saturation and contrast.
Enhancedi.46Aa and Mi.46Ab cancelled stamps (1945).
Enhancedi.46Aa and Mi.46Ab cancelled stamps (1945).


Here is a 1946 cancelled stamp (Mi.60).


Mi.60.
Mi.60.

Comparing two blocks.

Blocks of Mi.60 and Mi.46Aa.
Blocks of Mi.60 and Mi.46Aa.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Back to Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. RB 13 -15.

These is the Victims of Fascism Series.

RB13. Rudolf Breitscheid, politician.
RB14. Dr Eric Klausener, Catholic Church politician.
RB15. Ernst Thälmann, politician.

SG CVs are same for all, mint £42 used £95.


Michel lists 2 shades of RB13 (Mi 20a)) pale (bluish) green to green, and Mi.20b, blackish yellow-emerald green with a higher CV.
Michel lists three shades for the RB15 .
Michel 22a. (bright) red,
22b (orange red to vermillion),
22c dark red, the b and c commanding high CVs.

Michel CVs are lower than SG for the common shades, but very much higher for the rarer shades (20b, 22b, 22c).



mv page 2 copy.png

Closer look at stamps. I like the craginess of the stamps, poster like images.


SG RB 13
SG RB 13







SG RB 14 with face flaw. (€120)
SG RB 14 with face flaw. (€120)







SG. RB15
SG. RB15

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Next RB16-RB18 series (Michel 23-25).

This is the Charity Land Reform series (´Junkerland in Bauernhand`).

RB16. blue green
RB16a. bright green
Rb17. brown
RB17a. chestnut
RB 18. rose red
RB18a. red orange

All at mint £11, used £65

Michel lists 4 shades for the 8 + 22Pf.
24a. sienna
24aa. blackish sienna (highest CV).
24b. mid sienna.
24c. yellow brown (high CV).

SG tends to use chestnut for the Michel sienna described stamp shades.



Closer look at issue.

SG. RB 16 and RB 16a
SG. RB 16 and RB 16a





SG. RB 17 (very dark) and RB 17a
SG. RB 17 (very dark) and RB 17a






SG. RB 18 and RB 18a
SG. RB 18 and RB 18a

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

RB 19 -21

Child Welfare stamps set (baby, girl, boy).

Michel quotes different shades

Mi. 26a. Bright red to dark reddish-orange
Mi. 26b. Pale relish orange (high CV)

Mi. 27a. Pale ultramarine (shades).
Mi. 27b. Grey blue (shades). Very high CV.
Mi. 27c. Dark ultramarine. Very high CV.


Mi. 28a. Pink-red.
Mi. 28b. Dark pink. (high CV).

Many flaws noted.

SG RB 19-21 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG RB 19-21 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

You have an amazing collection there, johnrcrow. Re. Mi46- it looks as if a good number you show are Mi63 (Mi60 is the perf. version).

Looking at scans shown next to each other, as you have, makes the difference very clear! As we know from the plate flaws they, not surprisingly, used the same plates but must have run out of that nice white paper! Luckily neither is an expensive stamp (in its basic form).

I have been caught out when a seller claimed a cover had a pair of Mi46 which on inspection turned out to be Mi63! (The former is not commonly seen- they had obviously pretty much run out by the time the rates increased in March '46.)

SBZ Mi63 PAIR COVER.jpg
SBZ Mi63

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

SG. RB 22-33.

Things are very simple in SG.

SG gives the imperforate set as RB22-27 as shown below. The hard to get stamp is SG RB23!



SG. RB 22-27 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG. RB 22-27 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern





SG gives the perforated set as RB28-33 as shown below.


SG. RB 28-33 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
SG. RB 28-33 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern


Things are much more complicated using Michel Specialised.

This involves shades and paper types (dig out the micrometer).

Note the huge differences in the CVs noted and possibilities of headaches through assessing shades!


Here out of interest are the Michel tables for the equivalent issues.

Paper types defined as below.

Michel defined paper types for Mi.29-40.
Michel defined paper types for Mi.29-40.




Michel table Mi.29-34.
Michel table Mi.29-34.



Michel table Mi.35-36.
Michel table Mi.35-36.



Michel table Mi.37-40.
Michel table Mi.37-40.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks OldDuffer1 for input. As usual informative and welcome.

I do not think it hard to distinguish these especially when you have a few to look at (as with all studies).

I like the idea somewhat of running out of paper..

Hard times all round even for stamp producers.

I plod on with more examples. I have to see if have missed any flaws.... although most stamps as already indicated are crude and can be regarded as anything but flawless!

John

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Here are some examples of stamps side by side.

3Pf imp green.
3Pf imp green.






4Pf imp. blue.
4Pf imp. blue.







4Pf. imp brown.
4Pf. imp brown.








5Pf imp. green.
5Pf imp. green.








6pf. Perf. blue
6pf. Perf. blue








8Pf. imp. red.
8Pf. imp. red.








10pf imp.brown.
10pf imp.brown.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

6pf. Perf. Violet
6pf. Perf. Violet








12Pf. Perf. Red
12Pf. Perf. Red







15Pf. Perf. Brown.
15Pf. Perf. Brown.








20Pf. Perf. Blue.
20Pf. Perf. Blue.








30Pf. Perf. Turquoise
30Pf. Perf. Turquoise








40Pf. Perf. Purple.
40Pf. Perf. Purple.


So back to identifying paper and those shades.

So much simper in SG!


I may come back to those when I have made the ´Michel`assessment!!

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

SAXONY

As against the simplicity of the SG catalogue, here the Michel excels in cataloguing rarities and as such is a rich hunting ground for collectors with the specialised Michel!

This revolves around the paper type, watermarks, perorations and shades of stamps in the issues (is there much else?).

The watermarks for the Saxony stamps are shown below. Michel records them as seen from the BACK of the stamp.




Watermarks on Saxony stamps. The x and y should be in capitals!
Watermarks on Saxony stamps. The x and y should be in capitals!




To illustrate this let us look at the Michel table for the imperforate issue,



Michel table for Saxony stamps Mi.66-71 (SG RC1-7).
Michel table for Saxony stamps Mi.66-71 (SG RC1-7).




Note the huge increases in CV for the watermarked (WM) Y stamps.

Always worth a second look at the WM!





For the next issues (SG RC 8-19 Mi. 73-84) the CV differences for the X and Y are not so pronounced and shades come into play in identifying the rarer stamps.



Here is the Michel table for the stamps.
Attachments
Michel table for Saxony stamps Mi.73-84 (SG RC8-19).
Michel table for Saxony stamps Mi.73-84 (SG RC8-19).

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Farmer ploughing.

The SG RC 20 -23 is simplified again.

This is another good collecting area as Michel expands this greatly.

Paper type, shades and perfs all add to the chase.


Here are 2 Michel tables covering the issues.


Michel table showing paper and shade variations for Mi.85 and 86 (SG RC 20-23) imp stamps.
Michel table showing paper and shade variations for Mi.85 and 86 (SG RC 20-23) imp stamps.


Michel table showing paper and shade variations for Mi.85 and 86 (SG RC 20-23) with added perforations (postmaster separations).
Michel table showing paper and shade variations for Mi.85 and 86 (SG RC 20-23) with added perforations (postmaster separations).


Here are some examples.


Used Mi.85wa
Used Mi.85wa






Two shades Mi.85
Two shades Mi.85






Perfs C (vert) and B (horiz) as in table.
Perfs C (vert) and B (horiz) as in table.








MI.86 Saxony imp.
MI.86 Saxony imp.





Mi.86 pair.Saxony.
Mi.86 pair.Saxony.






Mi.86 B Saxony.
Mi.86 B Saxony.




Mi.86 C Saxony.
Mi.86 C Saxony.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

No attempt was made to show paper differences,

The last ´ploughman stamps are interesting in being transparent and printed on´cigarette paper`.

Here the WM. is not easy to see ( a nightmare) and is not the ascending and descending type.

I am not going to dwell on these as outlined in Michel.


Here is scheme for WM (from the back of stamps remember).

I love the added comment about WM. being ´barely visible`.

wm trans say.jpg

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by DarrenK »

Excellent John.

Thank you for your hard work here.

I have a few to add here, again I won't go into paper types, just the perforations.

Sachen_0001.jpg
Mi 85D Irregular roulette
Sachen_0002.jpg
Mi 86D Irregular roulette
Sachen_0003.jpg
Mi 86D Irregular roulette used with imperf bottom
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by DarrenK »

These are some of the "perforated on all four sides" Type A stamps. There are several different perforations that have been used.
Sachen_0006.jpg
Sachen_0007.jpg
Sachen_0004.jpg
Sachen_0005.jpg
Sachen_0008.jpg
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by DarrenK »

And as John mentioned above, these are the "Cigarette Paper" stamps.

I agree 100% about the watermarks. Good luck! The only way I have been successful is with stamps that have clear margins and even then it's very hard.

Sachen_0010.jpg
Sachen_0009.jpg
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Super examples DarrenK.

I have also some ragged perf types but am never quite convinced by them as to whether they have just been torn off! The one you show seems OK... again look at the CV increases of such stamps, crude as they are.


mmm to WM ID of those transparent beasts....needs work.


Do not forget even that the excellent thread by Gavin is also full of information about the Russian Zone stamps with any contributions from other Gemanophiles.


The Russians in Germany Stamps 1945-49 (Soviet Zone)

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16899

Please, anyone feel free to show more examples here.


I am now delving into even deeper waters considering the East Saxony Michel minefield (again refer also to Gavin´s thread described above for more information (maybe the same too, no harm in repetition).

Keep posting.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

DarrenK.

With reference to the different perfs. on all sides stamps you show.

Have you any further data as to where these have been ´catalogued`. Have I missed this in Michel?

I will have to look at mine and determine the perfs.

Interesting observation.

John

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by DarrenK »

John, the only place I can see them is 85A and 86A.

All the catalogues I have only indicate that the perfs are 11½. I have about 15 stamps, including a couple of pairs, that are clearly Perf 14.

I have Perf 14 85A and 86A are in a large Leuchtturn album I purchased maybe 15 years ago. That came from Germany. The other Perf 14 are in my sorting albums.

Not sure where that leaves us.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Interesting DarrenK indeedI will get back with any perfs I measure at the end.


East Saxony (Out Sachsen) examination.

Again the simple SG. as shown is massively complicated in Michel specialised.

I did not show the SG. RE1 because I do not have a genuine one.

There was good deal of great information on this stamp in the The Russians in Germany Stamps 1945-49 (Soviet Zone) by Gavin as referenced. Page 17 (OldDuffer1 offers a break down of the stamp and shows forgery characteristics. In fact I have a forgery that shows all but one of the forgery characters.

Based on OldDuffer description....

The flag shipEast Saxony Michel 41 was issued on 23rd June 1945 and withdrawn the same day due to objections to the Russian script. (POTSCHTA). Most of the stock was destroyed but 14,500 were sold so that it is quite scarce. The market also abounds with fakes. Ideally a copy should be accompanied by a modern "photo attest" but these tend to be very expensive.

OldDuffer1 then added an article on how to identify fakes. See page 17 as above for nice enlargement software the features..

Here is a bit from the article.

Recently, more and more fake stamps are auctioned at high surcharges (up to 130 € !!!). To curb this, I took the time to write a guidebook on how to easily expose these counterfeits even on a bad scan / photo.

First of all, it should be said that the Potschta stamps were printed in both colors (oil, water color) in screenprinting. Since the same grid can never be imitated perfectly, counterfeits can be detected at the latest under the microscope. However, since the rotogravure would be too expensive for counterfeiters, the counterfeiters are limited to the cheaper book, offset or digital printing. Even under a commercially available magnifying glass, the differences to the original printing process are easy to recognize (printing processes and their properties are presented in the Michel catalog).
Since you get on ebay.de but hardly brands with a corresponding magnification / resolution, you have to rely on artifacts that have occurred in the production of counterfeiting.


Here is my fake with the highlighted fake induced artefacts and then I follow it with a scan of a genuine article, something taken from web. Perhaps others can scan in their copies, I know that Old Duffer 1 has one and DarrenK uses one as his avatar.

Mi.41 fake showing features making it a fake!<br />1. V shaped projection.<br />2. Blip on top left post horn<br />3. Missing is a small dot below left hand bottom post horn (covered by cancel I think ).<br />4. Tiny vertical nick at base.<br />5. Tiny white dot in 2.<br />6. Break in top right leaf.
Mi.41 fake showing features making it a fake!
1. V shaped projection.
2. Blip on top left post horn
3. Missing is a small dot below left hand bottom post horn (covered by cancel I think ).
4. Tiny vertical nick at base.
5. Tiny white dot in 2.
6. Break in top right leaf.

I see one at least for sale on eBay at €190!



Here is one photo attested from web.

Genuine Mi.41.
Genuine Mi.41.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Yes, of course Mi41 is now discredited as an issued stamp (so is now MiB1a or B1b for the 2 ink types). This matter has been discussed at some length in the "Russians in Germany" thread. Genuine copies, and particularly covers- which were obviously manufactured albeit often by P.O. staff- still fetch high prices.

When I did a study of Postage Due covers ("Allied Occupied Germany: “Nachgebühr” Markings (Postage Due)":
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=51189&p=3657026#p3657026) I should have noticed that there didn't seem to be any bearing this stamp- for one which was supposed to have been invalid after 1 day!

By the way- I have noticed that many, (hopefully in my case!), genuine examples seem to exhibit that little "notch" at the top RHS of the dotty centre part. Have not looked at enough examples to see if it is constant!

Michel does not list any plate flaws for this stamp, but some even more specialized literature may do so?

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Here is the Michel table for Mi.42A to 50A.

Michel table FOR MI.42A TO 50A (SG. RE2 to RE20
Michel table FOR MI.42A TO 50A (SG. RE2 to RE20

The Mi.43 (6Pf) is interesting in having shades as well as perforation variants with greatly different CVs.

Shades become important as to scarcity estimation and hence CV.

Mi-44A 3 shades.
Mi.46A 2 shades.
Mi.47A 3 shades.
Mi.48A 3 shades.

Michel 43.

Here is Michel table for Mi.43. with some English translation.



Michel detail for Mi.43. East Saxony.  translated.
Michel detail for Mi.43. East Saxony. translated.


Here is a´bunch`of 6pf Mi.43 scanned just to show what to expect.

Range of Mi.43 6Pf stamps east Saxony.
Range of Mi.43 6Pf stamps east Saxony.

Overview shows clear difference in greens (Black yellow-green) from (Black blue green).

Enlargements to show perfs. on selected stamps from above.



Mi.43 Aa, 43Ab, 43BI,43 BIIb East Saxony stamps.
Mi.43 Aa, 43Ab, 43BI,43 BIIb East Saxony stamps.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks OldDuffer1. I am trying to focus attention on getting information from other great threads but always useful to repeat.

RE FLAWS.


I believe Michel indicate 3 flaws?




42 flaws.jpg



Here is a supposed III from web.
They are several for sale on e Bay as well as Delcampe.
They all look similar though as with all the issues stamp impressions can be very messy.

I assume as always that scholars had access to plates and information regarding the validity of such flaws.

No I or II seen by me as yet or sale.




iii.jpg

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Next consideration for the issue (Mi.42 to 50) is the Postmaster Separations.

Highly complex field of collecting with many different perforation combinations applied to sheets from different sources as well as varieties within and between the sources.

High CVs abound and only with the Michel specialised can one progress.

I show several of my issues here as samples to add flavour. Some pencilled in CVs can be made out.

Sorry about stored scans , if anyone interested more I can re scan and include.

Also discussed in other threads mentioned above.

East Saxony. Postmaster separations DI. Perf.10 Coswig.
East Saxony. Postmaster separations DI. Perf.10 Coswig.


East Saxony. Postmaster separations DII. Perf.11 Coswig.
East Saxony. Postmaster separations DII. Perf.11 Coswig.




East Saxony. Postmaster separations DIII. Perf.11½ Coswig.
East Saxony. Postmaster separations DIII. Perf.11½ Coswig.




East Saxony. Postmaster separations E. Perf.10½ Grossröhrsdorf.
East Saxony. Postmaster separations E. Perf.10½ Grossröhrsdorf.






East Saxony. Postmaster separations F. Perf.10¾-11 Klotzsche.
East Saxony. Postmaster separations F. Perf.10¾-11 Klotzsche.







East Saxony. Postmaster separations G. Perf. 9½-11 Loschwitz.
East Saxony. Postmaster separations G. Perf. 9½-11 Loschwitz.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

For OldDuffer1.

Philotax flaws for Mi.41.


Mi.41 flaws I, II and III from Philotax  SBZ Plattenfehler Katalog.
Mi.41 flaws I, II and III from Philotax SBZ Plattenfehler Katalog.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by DarrenK »

This is my copy of Mi41.

It has two signatures on the rear. This is the only one I have physically seen.


Mi 41.jpg

Mi 41 signature.jpg
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Nice copy DarrenK. This also seems to have that "notch" which appears to be more pronounced on some copies than others. Since it is not listed as a plate flaw, (thanks, by the way, johnrcrow- had forgotten about the 3 given in Michel!), it looks like it might be a constant on all copies? Will have to peruse those genuine ones on sale. By the way, I get the feeling that a lot more are about than was originally suggested (14,500). One dealer recently had a whole sheet for sale!

(I assume the mark on the right is just dirt on the scanner as doesn't appear on you avatar!)

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Here are a couple currently on Delcampe:

41 (1).jpg
41 (2).jpg

The first is priced at £207 (Old proofing) and the second at £1300! (Photo Attest)

They both seem to have that "notch". Now to get out the UV lamp!

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks Darren and Old D.

One thing about these crude prints is the almost every stamp has some blob, blemish, scar, dot, post horn oddity, net gap, net flare, frame nick, etc.

One has to stick with the expert opinion as to what is a flaw and what is not, I assume through information gleaned through access to sheets of printings and the history..... only a few of these are deemed flaws.

I could do marvellous spread on the variation of post horns in general or even just on one the the top right post horn of Mi.51!, or the top left post horn or....the things we do hey? Would drive Glen crazy.



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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Yes, for Mi51 you have 5 types of paper and 3 types of gum- and that's just the start!

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by DarrenK »

This 1946 stamp from Mecklenburg-Vorpommern Mi 33 has a perfect offset on the rear.

The stamp itself is Plate Fault Mi 33 X: Thick oval mark on upper edge over "6" (pos 37, not x b)

Meck Vorp Mi 33_0001.jpg
Meck Vorp Mi 33_0002.jpg
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks Darren.

Amazing to say but I have not consciously looked at the backs of my Zone examples!!

Will do.

Flaws then introduced for MV at least.

Do we add more an even further drift from the title?

Might be nice to keep them tight here?

Between us all we may have a good number of the wee 6Pf MV flaws and have a good few other issue flaws.



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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Just about to start attacking the Mi.51 3Pf and Mi. 52.10Pf.

As OldD., said a veritable minefield of paper types, gum types and shades. SG is very wise in its simplicity.

I still struggle to find the ´paper stripes`alluded to in Michel.

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