Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

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Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Jon E »

.
Just posted a couple of items and as they were going to collectors I thought I'd ask for some nice stamps to be put on them. Nope, they pretty much don't have them. Confirms that GB special issues really are junk status labels like those colourful "stamps" from little islands you used to get in the 70s, but question is will Stanley Gibbons be listing them in catalogues as I thought they only listed things available from a post office ?

I also tried to determine the postage costs using the royal mail website - that was simple (I thought) so made sure packages fitted the listed criteria (dimensions, weight). Reality ? Completely different cost ! Don't get me wrong, being able to have a package hand delivered to someone thousands of miles away on a completely different continent for less than the cost of a pint is still pretty amazing, just questioning the point of the website!

TTFN,

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear

Post by lesbootman »

In my experience many post offices don't stock any special issues at all and the stock at the ones that do tend to be patchy and unreliable when it comes to particular issues. It can seem to be a lot of work for minimal reward for many of the sub post offices these days.

Royal Mail no longer intend people, apart from the odd few strange ones (i.e. philatelists), to actually use special issue stamps to pre-pay postage.

Whether Stanley Gibbons will be around to list any stamps at all may well be more of a concern than their judgement regarding the merit of listing GB special stamps and "products" in the future.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear

Post by Global Administrator »

.

As I have posted 100 times here, **EVERY** stamp den on earth should have a glassine of Mint stamps of your country on hand.

This juicy UK lot sold here this week for 27.5% UNDER face, post free.

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=96659

Total no-brainer to buy one of these and use them up. AND save yourself 27.5%. DURRRHHHH

Not hard to work out what a letter to USA or NZ or Germany costs - pre-frank it, take it to the PO, and you are good to go. I've done this each day for 45 years. It is a cinch - evidence here -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29146&start=350

AND your recipient gets these below and not worthless PO labels. :roll: :roll: :roll: Just bog basic common sense.


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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear

Post by lesbootman »

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Agreed: discount postage is readily available and can offer a considerable saving. Many collectors will have some on hand.

I also meant to comment that I use Royal Mail's online postage calculator a lot and I have never had any issue with the price quoted being wrong.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by chaddy »

People go to the trouble of putting decent stamps on packages, only to arrive with a marker pen or biro cancellation. It's getting almost impossible to find decent, genuine postally used stamps anymore.
STAMPS ARE NOT JUST FOR CHRISTMAS

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by steevh »

Last time I bought stamps at my local PO (it serves quite a large town), I wanted a couple of small sheets of 1p and 2p stamps, to make up postal rates.

The staff member told me that I'd have to wait a while, as all stamps were in the safe, and it was on a time lock!

The one time I did see someone there buying actual stamps, it was about 100 special delivery stamps, at some enormous cost (£600 or so?). The staff seemed very worried that the woman buying them might get robbed.

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

chaddy wrote:
17 Sep 2021 02:02
People go to the trouble of putting decent stamps on packages, only to arrive with a marker pen or biro cancellation. It's getting almost impossible to find decent, genuine postally used stamps anymore.
Asking nicely or cancels is bog basic common sense. Has worked perfectly for me for 45 years.

If that does not work for you use some common sense and apply your own -
Global Administrator wrote:
19 Jun 2021 14:38
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Image.Image




A member here kindly mailed me some material I purchased - envelope above. Postage cost 12 quid. He thoughtfully used 14 x 1st Class (85p) commems. He did not get them cancelled, so Royal Mail took their pen to them. :roll: :roll: :roll:

12 quid is well over $20 and if the stamps were nearly cancelled they'd have decent value. With pen cancels ZERO value.
= = = = = =
For all members too lazy to ask your PO for a cds cancel, or living in less developed countries like the UK, where stamp cancels are apparently deemed not necessary upon lodgement at a PO, unless done by ugly black marker pen, please spend $US5 and buy a circular self inking rubber stamp saying around outer edge, inside a circular ring - "Cancelled - For A Collector" or other wording of your choice.

All these online sellers allow you to choose the outer wording and inner design of your choice. Dead simple.

FIVE BUCKS or 2 or 3 quid post free, and job done for years to come - and $100s of vandalised stamps prevented for years. A coffee or beer costs that.

Then cancel all your outgoing mail with that. :!: :!: :!:

Not illegal, as no town or date on it and looks a TON better than pen or marker vandalism. If PO does not like it, ask sweetly if they can cancel it instead. :lol:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184728978963

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184725870237



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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by lesbootman »

That might work in Australia Glen but more often than not it doesn't in the UK.

Applying your own cancel isn't an option here either. If you did that the post office would refuse to accept the stamps - more than one counter clerk has told me that if they cancel the stamps then the sorting office will treat the stamps as invalid and process the item as unpaid. I kid you not!
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by yellowduck »

lesbootman wrote:
17 Sep 2021 02:35
more than one counter clerk has told me that if they cancel the stamps then the sorting office will treat the stamps as invalid and process the item as unpaid.
I have had that argument with staff in post offices overseas when I travel. I remember staff in a couple countries in Europe told me the exact same thing. I pointed out to them "The mail has been accepted by you. Then it is in a mailbag collected at your counter, by a post office driver. Who else would cancel stamps with your office name other than the staff of your office? And why would you have accepted the mail from me if you saw the stamps were already cancelled?"

If you are at a post office counter in a supermarket or a chemist, the staff usually don't know what they're doing. They're supermarket cashiers who do a second duty at the post office counter. Visit a real post office branch, and they can be more helpful.

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

.
So all those million red street letter boxes are all boarded up now?
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by norvic »

Global Administrator wrote:
17 Sep 2021 03:00
.
So all those million red street letter boxes are all boarded up now?
In light of your stressing that we should ask for stamps to be hand-cancelled at the counter, that's a rather pointless comment.

I'm sure you'll take notice of that, although you don't seem to take notice - or forget - points made by other members time and time again, viz:
les bootman wrote:more than one counter clerk has told me that if they cancel the stamps then the sorting office will treat the stamps as invalid and process the item as unpaid.
On Saturday at a convenience store PO branch that I have used many times before - and which DOES sell presentation packs, I had a well-stamped letter to France and a parcel to London. Previously I have had no problem having them hand-cancelled. This time I hit a (East European?) trainee on her first day, with nobody else at the PO to help. She refused to cancel the stamps as she did not know IF she could or how to do it properly. I told he she just uses the datestamp to cancel the stamps - she still refused.

As I had to post the letter to France for an editor to receive before he went on holiday I let them go; I have yet to find out how they turned out.

As I have also mentioned before, SOME offices WILL, and some offices WILL NOT, and none are obliged to cancel stamps on ordinary letters. They are not, apparently - due to an oversight in Royal Mail's instructions to PO Ltd - obliged to cancel stamps on ordinary special delivery (min £6.50) or equivalent international basic letters like yours.

They ARE obliged to cancel stamps paying or part-paying postage on Large Letters and Parcels - but many don't know this or conveniently forget.

The fault doesn't always lie with the sender, the machinery of postal operations conspires against us.

As for distribution, I hope to write more about this soon; I am waiting for another piece of evidence.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Jon E »

Not only did they not have commemorative stamps, even machin values were limited. Managed one machin on one package the other the white label :-( (Actually I do collect those labels and it was odd they used the current label but I'm sure the printing was the style used on those plain white labels used years ago?).

This is the first time I've posted anything other than 1st/2nd class for quite a few years, but yes, makes total sense to buy discount postage if you post more frequently and at least some will make it through the post system unvandalised. Mind you, I do have a UK mint collection to break up when I get the heart to.

TTFN,
Jon
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by faro »

Jon E wrote:
17 Sep 2021 06:35
Mind you, I do have a UK mint collection to break up when I get the heart to.
Except for particular hard-to-find items that are worth setting aside it's more a matter of changing from a "don't want to make a hole in the collection" to "everything is postage" (to be used for it's intended purpose!) mentality.

Working on the basis of "if I want it again I'll probably be able to pick it up at face or less" is usually safe enough for common material.

I'm currently burning my way through the likes of early 70s commems where those are a convenient multiple for 2nd class (e.g. 4 x 7½p + 4 x 9p = 66p).
Purchasing at just over 40% means that I can still offer "at cost" mailing for 30p for the time being...
postage.JPG

That aside, there's still something to be said for ordering sheets of current NVIs via the Royal Mail website. It's easy to get to the post-free limit (when the site is online!) and these are likely to increase in value more than inflation.
Much less hassle than trying to find anything pretty to purchase from a physical Post Office, anyhow... ;)

(p.s. SG uses a "can be purchased at face value" criterion, I believe, not "can be purchased at a(ny) PO")

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

norvic wrote:
17 Sep 2021 06:01
Global Administrator wrote:
17 Sep 2021 03:00
.
So all those million red street letter boxes are all boarded up now?
In light of your stressing that we should ask for stamps to be hand-cancelled at the counter, that's a rather pointless comment.

You miss the point - using one of these self ink stamps on legal mint stamps breaks no laws. In a red letter box or at a PO that refuses to cancel.

Have it made with wording - "I prefer my Royal Mail stamps circular CANCELLED please" perhaps. :lol: :lol: :lol:

If the PO refuses to cancel, or uses a ball pen, at least the stamps ALWAYS get a circular cancel.

Letters to the USA or NZ still arrive - with a cancel.

And if those stamps cost you 40-70% of face, all the better. :!: :!:

If you find a PO that cancels them - and clearly many do - no need for your self ink cancel.

Problem solved. 3 quid mailed to your door and no issues going forward for anyone.




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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by norvic »

But your point is baseless, as Les nearly pointed out.

If you drop a self-cancelled letter into a postbox there is an even chance that, somewhere along the line it will be detected and referred to the Revenue Protection team at that office who will flag it up as a defaced stamp and surcharge the recipient.

I accept that there is an equal chance that it will run through the system undetected, uncancelled by any machine or person and be delivered without surcharge.

If I had such a Handstamp as you suggest I would willingly send you a fully stamped letter duly cancelled.

There is another reason for posting over the counter and that is to obtain a certificate of posting to support a claim for loss either from RM or from private insurance.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by thecloudwatcher »

Jon E wrote:
16 Sep 2021 23:09
.
Just posted a couple of items and as they were going to collectors I thought I'd ask for some nice stamps to be put on them. Nope, they pretty much don't have them.
Not all surprising, really, in this modern day and age when technology and efficiency are prized over all else. Why would any post office (particularly busy ones) want staff flipping through counter books looking for stamps to stick on a letter or package when printing a label is so much quicker?

Not to mention the man hours involved in controlling the stock of stamps - you have to order them from post office stores, check that what is received matches what you ordered, distribute to the counter clerks, tally up what stamps have been sold on a daily basis and make sure that payments received match, lest you be accused of theft. I'm pretty sure that most (all?) postmasters, given the choice, would rather not handle stamps and just rely on labels printed at point of sale.

Discount postage is absolutely the way to go, there's enough of it out there!

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by lesbootman »

thecloudwatcher wrote:
17 Sep 2021 19:20
Jon E wrote:
16 Sep 2021 23:09
.
Just posted a couple of items and as they were going to collectors I thought I'd ask for some nice stamps to be put on them. Nope, they pretty much don't have them.
Not all surprising, really, in this modern day and age when technology and efficiency are prized over all else. Why would any post office (particularly busy ones) want staff flipping through counter books looking for stamps to stick on a letter or package when printing a label is so much quicker?

Not to mention the man hours involved in controlling the stock of stamps - you have to order them from post office stores, check that what is received matches what you ordered, distribute to the counter clerks, tally up what stamps have been sold on a daily basis and make sure that payments received match, lest you be accused of theft. I'm pretty sure that most (all?) postmasters, given the choice, would rather not handle stamps and just rely on labels printed at point of sale.

Discount postage is absolutely the way to go, there's enough of it out there!
I seem to recall reading that the "commission" post offices receive on the labels is higher than they get on stamps too - giving post offices even less incentive to stock and sell stamps.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

norvic wrote:
17 Sep 2021 17:38
But your point is baseless, as Les nearly pointed out.

If you drop a self-cancelled letter into a postbox there is an even chance that, somewhere along the line it will be detected and referred to the Revenue Protection team at that office who will flag it up as a defaced stamp and surcharge the recipient.

It is not ''baseless'' but perfectly accurate.

If the PO refuses to add a circular defacement mark - do it yourself with a small stamp.

Show me a single PO regulation that prohibits it. Talk about 'baseless''.

NO revenue loss to PO .... SAVES then time using black pens. AND saves uncancelled stamps being re-used. You may get a Knighthood or an OBE. :idea:
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by ViccyVFU »

Global Administrator wrote:
17 Sep 2021 13:06
You miss the point - using one of these self ink stamps on legal mint stamps breaks no laws.

Problem solved. 3 quid mailed to your door and no issues going forward for anyone.
.
(Well, this has got a bit strange .... :D )

Technically: You buy a mint stamp, you can do what you want with it.
Sign it, perfin it, line the budgie cage with it.

But if you wish to use it for its intended purpose, namely to provide prepayment for postal services, then it must be unmarked when submitted, attached to an item.

The actual offence would be along the lines "to attempt to place an item in the post without proper prepayment, or written agreement".

YOU CANNOT DEFACE STAMPS, THEN USE THEM FOR POSTAGE.
Defacement puts them "beyond use, for that purpose".

I'm still curious why you'd even want to....

The recipient won't get VFU stamps, they'll receive:

In all cases,
stamps defaced unofficially, so uncollectable.

Plus, possibly,
a machine handled postmark on top, or handstamped on top, or biro / marker cancelled. All useless.

And almost certainly
Further postage to pay, together with a fine.

But more likely
Denial of service, return to sender, and a visit from Revenue Protection.

(I believe the correct term for your suggestion is "cranial flatulence" :D)

Do it right, folks. Try at the post office, but otherwise just take your chances.

Uncancelled are a lot more valuable than double defaced.


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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

ViccyVFU wrote:
17 Sep 2021 20:52

The actual offence would be along the lines "to attempt to place an item in the post without proper prepayment, or written agreement".

As I asked - show me the ACTUAL wording these would breach.

It MAY say something more like -

"to attempt to place an item in the post that has previously been used, in an attempt to defraud revenue".

Every country has that offence. We are NOT talking about that. we are talking about legal, full gum, Royal Mail stamps they have been paid for in full, and never used before. NO FRAUD.

I'll bet there will be NO offence in the legislation, worded as you have cutely invented on the run! And if there was, norvic would be leaping out of his Brown Cardigan to post it right here!

In the USA any collector can make their own cancel and use it on their own stamps.

100% legal and many members here use them - you simply apply for a Mailer Permit number to your local PO, and all totally free - companies make the stamps online to this day, to your own design. a few design options are shown below.

http://www.wcp-nm.com/osc/catalog/index.php?cPath=25_33_111

Cool versions, with changeable dates in centre are 100% legal - like this -


7db_CDS-MPP_C30.gif

Discussion here - www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14323&p=542302#p542302



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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by norvic »

I do hate repeating myself, especially to counter barrack-room lawyers from another country who think they know so much better than the residents of that country who use the postal system every day and have done for decades.

You might think that someone who is a professional might consider that other professionals who belong to the same organisation might be able to put that person right about the British postal system, which would explain why even they* find it difficult to achieve what he aims is so easy to achieve but which can, in fact, be very difficult.

But I doubt if he has asked them - instead he resorts to cheap insults, lettering best suited to the partially sighted, in a rainbow of colours, and claims that the British members of this forum know not about that which they are writing.

If the thong were on the other foot, he would be the first to claim that we had no business expressing an opinion on Australia Post because we are half a world away and know nothing.

So, in order that there can be no doubt that we in the UK do know what we are talking/writing about let me make this perfectly clear and searchable in case it is ever necessary to find it again - as it probably will in a few months when the suggestion is repeated yet again.
Global Administrator wrote:
17 Sep 2021 21:16

As I asked - show me the ACTUAL wording these would breach.

-----8<-----

I'll bet there will be NO offence in the legislation, worded as you have cutely invented on the run! And if there was, norvic would be leaping out of his Brown Cardigan to post it right here!



As requested

POST OFFICE GUIDE

IMPERFECT OR DEFACED STAMPS

Postage cannot be paid by means of imperfect or defaced postage stamps. Stamps are considered defaced when marked on the face with any written, printed, or stamped characters. Perforation is, however, allowed under certain conditions, see paragraph on Perforation With Initials.


Extract from British Post Office guide regarding inadmissability for postal purposes of defaced stamps, with definition.
Extract from British Post Office guide regarding inadmissability for postal purposes of defaced stamps, with definition.



Now kindly stop telling us that you know better than we do, go put your speedos on, and get down to the beach - oh wait, it's winter, most of the country is under lockdown. Oh well, I'm off to the beach this afternoon - you know, one of those with wide open stretches of golden Norfolk sand, as featured in the film Shakespeare in Love.

=========================================

* This is a package sent by one of the UK's premier auction companies who is (I am almost certain) a member of the PTS. They send out sacks of stuff after every auction; postage on this one includes three very good complete sets of commemoratives. It's bagged and taken direct to the mail centre where the Royal Mail employees ignore the stamps and process everything as quickly as possible.

Further down the line at a delivery mail centre, or even a delivery office, somebody notices the stamps and defaces them. Whilst it would be logical for stamp cancelling to be done at the office of first receipt it is not, and nothing can be done to make it so. So treatment before delivery is variable.

If there was a way for that PTS member to ensure that the stamps were collectable on delivery, I think that member would do so.

Badly defaced package from auction company which can't get stamps properly cancelled at mail centre.
Badly defaced package from auction company which can't get stamps properly cancelled at mail centre.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Weather superb here today, actually in Sydney. (It is Australia after all) And no issues going to beaches to sit on SAND and not a rock quarry. :D :D :D

Back to the clause, it clearly refers to stamps upon which a cancel or marking was added prior to affixing. i.e. a re-used or previously cancelled stamp. As I stated EVERY country has similar verbiage.

Not the case clearly, with what I am suggesting. As anyone with a double-digit IQ will concur with. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

If your PO is too lazy or stupid (or both) to do it, honest mail users step into the breach to save Revenue.



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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by norvic »

We've been here before as well.
Global Administrator wrote: In the USA any collector can make their own cancel and use it on their own stamps.

100% legal and many members here use them - you apply for a Mailer Permit to your local PO, and all totally free - companies make the stamps online to this day, to your own design. a few options are shown below.

http://www.wcp-nm.com/osc/catalog/index.php?cPath=25_33_111

Cool versions with changeable dates in centre are 100% legal - like this -


Image
I tried to get Royal Mail to make such a system available 5 years ago. I sent details of how this could work here, including two references http://www.virtualstampclub.com/lawrence1.html and https://pe.usps.com/archive/html/dmmarchive20030810/P023.htm.

I was told that it was too difficult to implement and keep mail segregated. It shouldn't be, of course, as metered mail is separated and segregated at various stages. But if there is no will, it won't happen, and the brick wall will last longer than my 7-decade-old head.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by norvic »

Global Administrator wrote:
17 Sep 2021 22:52

Back to the clause, it clearly refers to stamps upon which a cancel or marking was added prior to affixing. i.e. a re-used or previously cancelled stamp. As I stated EVERY country has similar verbiage.

Not the case clearly, with what I am suggesting. As anyone with a double-digit IQ will concur with. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

If your PO is too lazy or stupid (or both) to do it, honest mail users step into the breach to save Revenue.



Image
It seems that there is another brick wall that will last longer than my 7-decade-old head.

It absolutely does not say, refer or imply, that the (rubber) stamp is applied prior to affixing.

The wording would (and does) prohibit stamps with company/organisation names printed on them, which is obviously done in sheets prior to being affixed to revenue documents, but it makes no reference to when the stamp is marked.

Give up, you have lost this argument before, you have lost it now, and you will lose it again - though not to me, because I refuse to repeat myself again.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

norvic wrote:
17 Sep 2021 23:06

The wording would (and does) prohibit stamps with company/organisation names printed on them, which is obviously done in sheets prior to being affixed to revenue documents, but it makes no reference to when the stamp is marked.

What on EARTH has that got to do with using your own canceller onto stamps purchased from Royal Mail, simply as they are too stupid or too lazy to cancel most mail? Those doing so are providing a free Revenue Protection service to Royal Mail. :!:
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by norvic »

Global Administrator wrote:
17 Sep 2021 23:23
norvic wrote:
17 Sep 2021 23:06

The wording would (and does) prohibit stamps with company/organisation names printed on them, which is obviously done in sheets prior to being affixed to revenue documents, but it makes no reference to when the stamp is marked.

What on EARTH has that got to do with using your own canceller onto stamps purchased from Royal Mail, simply as they are too stupid or too lazy to cancel most mail? Those doing so are providing a free Revenue Protection service to Royal Mail. :!:
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

.
You just can't make this kind of stuff up! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Monty Python lives on in Norfolk ...............

This promise took under 2 hours to break. :D

norvic wrote:
17 Sep 2021 23:06

I refuse to repeat myself again.
norvic wrote:
17 Sep 2021 22:09
.... lettering best suited to the partially sighted, in a rainbow of colours
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by norvic »

Global Administrator wrote:
18 Sep 2021 00:48
norvic wrote:
17 Sep 2021 22:09
.... lettering best suited to the partially sighted, in a rainbow of colours
I didn't know which colour you could read.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

.
norvic wrote:
17 Sep 2021 23:06

I refuse to repeat myself again.

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by GB 789 »

I thought every delivery office had its own ‘killer’ cancellation to use for any unfranked stamps. Even some posties were given them to use but clearly a biro line is quicker sadly.

I do think it depends on the delivery office in question too. My local Worcester office is pretty good at cancelling any unfranked with an actual PO specified cancellation. It’s not perfect as it’s not a CDS but at least it’s official.

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Phila-Tourist »

The MPP postmarks in the USA are a fascinating, little-known phenomenon. I am not aware of any other country that has a similar rule. Outside the USA, if you want to self-service your individual pieces of mail you are basically limited to franking machines. In some countries, high-volume mailers were even allowed to keep and use a roll of registration stickers at a time when these labels were still location-specific and tightly controlled.

The only way to get your own postmark was to apply for a short-duration commemorative postmark (at fairs, stamp shows, conferences). But this often came with the obligation to pay for a temporary post office where official postal workers watched and applied the postmark so that no private person would fool around with it.

Irrespective whether putting a private rubber stamp on a postage stamp is lawful or not, any stamp in such condition is destroyed and worthless from a philatelic point of view.

These days you have to be grateful if smaller post offices have any stamps at all, and a postmark, oh and where that postmark actually shows a location. (Yes, Croatia, I mean you.) Many prefer to slap an ugly franking label on your letter, preferably made of thermal paper.

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by MJ's pet »

Phila-Tourist wrote:
18 Sep 2021 11:54
The MPP postmarks in the USA are a fascinating, little-known phenomenon. I am not aware of any other country that has a similar rule.


Article by Ken Lawrence:

http://www.virtualstampclub.com/lawrence1.html#:~:text=3.1%2 ... 0envelopes.

Your Own Mailer's Postmark
Section PO23.3.1 of the Domestic Mail Manual gives the rules for securing a mailer's postmark permit, which is free:
"A mailer must request authorization to preprint rate markings on precanceled stamps or to use a precancel postmark on adhesive stamps, postal cards, and stamped envelopes. The applicant must submit a specimen mailpiece showing the preprinting method or the proposed precancel postmark. If more than one format is used, a specimen showing each must be submitted. Form 3615 must be endorsed 'Preprinting of Rate Markings,' or "Mailer's Precancel Postmark,' or both, as appropriate."

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by ViccyVFU »


Well, all evidence has been presented, but clearly not digested.

I decided not to furnish it, on the grounds you are the intended sole beneficiary of this hair brained suggestion,
and I was indifferent to its actual outcome.

"You can lead a horse to water ......"


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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Thankyou to the Stampboards members who reside in the United Kingdom for giving us an oversight of what it is like in your post offices these days.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by ViccyVFU »

Ubobo.R.O. wrote:
18 Sep 2021 20:23
Thankyou to the Stampboards members who reside in the United Kingdom for giving us an oversight of what it is like in your post offices these days.
Perhaps the question to ask is:

"Given the rules we play by, what are peoples tips and tricks for getting stuff shipped out nicely postmarked?"


It certainly wasn't the OP's question, which invokes flashback to a Monty Python sketch....
(For those old enough to remember).

See if you can spot any "similarities of predicament" ..... (Different outcome, obviously)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1JWzyvv8A


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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by norvic »

GB 789 wrote:
18 Sep 2021 06:08
I thought every delivery office had its own ‘killer’ cancellation to use for any unfranked stamps. Even some posties were given them to use but clearly a biro line is quicker sadly.

I do think it depends on the delivery office in question too. My local Worcester office is pretty good at cancelling any unfranked with an actual PO specified cancellation. It’s not perfect as it’s not a CDS but at least it’s official.
The devices were distributed in 2015 and although widely used initially they have, over 6 years, been lost, broken, or dried up with no replacement ink available, and have mostly fallen out of use.

When alternative ink-pads are used, a different 'framed wavy lines' cancellation appears, as I reported in 2019.
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by The Pom »

POST OFFICE GUIDE

IMPERFECT OR DEFACED STAMPS

Postage cannot be paid by means of imperfect or defaced postage stamps. Stamps are considered defaced when marked on the face with any written, printed, or stamped characters. Perforation is, however, allowed under certain conditions, see paragraph on Perforation With Initials.
So what about producing a homemade postmarker with no characters?


pmk.jpg
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

The Pom wrote:
18 Sep 2021 22:09

So what about producing a homemade postmarker with no characters?

PLEEZE .... do not inject any LOGIC to this Monty Python situation -- you'll be deported to the Colonies. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Norvic will need Emergency Oxygen and hospitalisation in ICU. He'll get all his fonts and colours scrambled up for days now. :mrgreen:

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by ViccyVFU »

The Pom wrote:
18 Sep 2021 22:09
So what about producing a homemade postmarker with no characters?

Image

Good luck in convincing Revenue Protection they were not re-used? (Off an FDC, or something).

Wasn't the goal to get the Sheriff something he could sell?

This, with a biro on top (or even a real hand stamp), gets us no closer to that.

Might as well use a label!!
.

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Well mail me all copies you find of these with the 4 ring dumb concentric ring cancels you find. :idea:

I'll pay you DOUBLE SG for every one.

They are the official UPU CTO cancels. Maybe 30-50 of each are in collector hands globally.

We need to be less narrow and blinkered in our thinking. Well when I saw WE, I really mean ................. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Otq24kU.jpg
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by ViccyVFU »


I'm sure I could find some old stamp from a defunct issuing authority, and mark it however I liked, on the front of a cover, as long as I leave sufficient UK postage to pay for the service requested.

img592.jpg


Panterra does that all the time, with his fantasy creations .....

So what are you really asking for?

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by Phila-Tourist »

Thank you for the link to this article!

Yes, Germany has indeed an MPP equivalent, whose use however is restricted and whose only purpose is to save the post office some work. There is none of the charming US aspect to allow every philatelist to be his own postmaster and save stamps from the unattractive killer or wavy cancellations.

The German MPP postmarks are only valid on discounted bulk mailings, for which definitive stamps exist(ed) with weird face values such as the pre-euro 33 and 38 pfenng. The postmark must not be used on individual first-class letters. All German MPP that I have ever seen are metal slogan (machine) cancellations, whose production costs are prohibitive. They were/are used by the philatelic companies such as Sieger, Borek and Krüger to send out flashy flyers advertising their overpriced thematic or country subscriptions to tens of thousands of collectors (think Princess Diana sets from Guinea and Niue in tacky faux leather binders).

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by The Pom »

ViccyVFU wrote:
18 Sep 2021 22:45

I'm sure I could find some old stamp from a defunct issuing authority, and mark it however I liked, on the front of a cover, as long as I leave sufficient UK postage to pay for the service requested.

Image


Panterra does that all the time, with his fantasy creations .....

So what are you really asking for?

That one's no good. The WA stamp is a Spiro forgery!
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by The Pom »

Global Administrator wrote:
18 Sep 2021 22:28
.
Well mail me all copies you find of these with the 4 ring dumb concentric ring cancels you find. :idea:

I'll pay you DOUBLE SG for every one.

They are the official UPU CTO cancels. Maybe 30-50 of each are in collector hands globally.

We need to be less narrow and blinkered in our thinking. Well when I saw WE, I really mean ................. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Image

And I'll take the ones with Maltese crosses. I'll even show a bit of flexibility & take ones with numbers in them.
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by norvic »

This is one of the trial examples from Banbury which resulted in just the wavy lines being used on the hand-cancellers. Would have been nice, but wouldn't have lasted any longer than what they did use - look, no characters there either.

Banbury Cross large March 2015.jpg

Last edited by CMJ on 26 Sep 2021 08:42, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by MJ's pet »

Phila-Tourist wrote:
18 Sep 2021 22:46
Yes, Germany has indeed an MPP equivalent, whose use however is restricted and whose only purpose is to save the post office some work. There is none of the charming US aspect to allow every philatelist to be his own postmaster and save stamps from the unattractive killer or wavy cancellations.

The German MPP postmarks are only valid on discounted bulk mailings, for which definitive stamps exist(ed) with weird face values such as the pre-euro 33 and 38 pfenng. The postmark must not be used on individual first-class letters. All German MPP that I have ever seen are metal slogan (machine) cancellations, whose production costs are prohibitive. They were/are used by the philatelic companies such as Sieger, Borek and Krüger to send out flashy flyers advertising their overpriced thematic or country subscriptions to tens of thousands of collectors (think Princess Diana sets from Guinea and Niue in tacky faux leather binders).


Thanks Phila-Tourist.

So that confirms that the USA is the only place in the world where you can "make-your-own-postmark" (provided it complies with MPP).

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Re: Jon Goes to a UK Post Office - Oh Dear - no nice stamps there

Post by norvic »

The Pom wrote:
18 Sep 2021 22:09
POST OFFICE GUIDE

IMPERFECT OR DEFACED STAMPS

Postage cannot be paid by means of imperfect or defaced postage stamps. Stamps are considered defaced when marked on the face with any written, printed, or stamped characters. Perforation is, however, allowed under certain conditions, see paragraph on Perforation With Initials.
So what about producing a homemade postmarker with no characters?



Image
You could make something like that at home, with a piece of wood or plastic - bottle top for example. £1.70 discount postage, send it to Glen, dropped in a big red box of course, sit back and await results.
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