Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

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alex_c_y1977
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by alex_c_y1977 »

A recent ebay purchase

KGV 2d red single watermark perf OS x 9 used on cover (block of four, 2 vertical pairs plus a single) - used in 1951 (!!!!) - almost 30 years after the stamp was issued.
2d red OS cover late use - resized.jpeg
Looks commercial & legit to me?

I remember reading an article by the late Rod Perry years ago, where in one of his articles he showed a cover used around the same time (1950s) with 9 x 1d KGV green OS overprint by the Education department or something like that.

One of the stamps can be plated as 11R29 (RIGHT FRAME PARTLY MISSING, Shading Under Left Wattle Stem: Most or all of the left hand 0.5 mm of 1st line is missing)

2d red OS cover late use - front - Copy.jpeg
So the block can be plated as 11R23-24, 11R29-30.

Cheers
Alex

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hi xanthorrea,

I do have another cover like yours, but:
Image
yours is the better looking copy.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

Two 3/ Waratahs and a 6d Yellow-Tailed Thornbill paid the 2/ registration fee plus 4/6d for the up to 1oz. airmail fee (6/6d).
sb_june2012a.jpg
sb_june2012b.jpg
The cover was mailed from Elgar Park, Victoria and addressed to London, England. And it was postmarked on 9 FE 65.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hi alex_c_y1977,

Nice cover!

The Rod Perry article was indeed about 9 X 1d KGV green with an OS overprint:
Image
1d Green optd "OS": Another spectacular use of the 1d CofA, this time the Official overprint, Figure 6 contains no less than nine examples of the stamp, paying 3d Letter rate + 6d registration fee. Sent from Hornsby to Strathfield South, this item is remarkable for two reasons. Firstly, I don't recall seeing this many of the stamp on a single article, and secondly, the year of use is 1951! The Education Dept., from which this item emanates, is well known for use of uprated KGV-era Postal stationery well in to the reign of QEII, but I hadn't encountered "OS" overprint stamps used so late. Value : $250 (stamps off cover $27).
The article was from the June 2009 issue of Stamp News Australasia.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

Another cover from Elgar Park, Victoria to London, which was postmarked 25 JA 63:
sb_june2013a.jpg
sb_june2013b.jpg
The two 3/ Waratah issues, the 1/6d Christmas Bells and the 3d QEII paid the 2/ registration fee, the 1/3d special delivery fee and the 4/6 up to 1oz. airmail fee (7/9d).

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

A 1/2d Tasmanian Tiger paid the 0-½oz air mail greeting card rate from Sydney to Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. The cover was postmarked on 18 DEC 1963. I also like the Christmas Greetings slogan.
sb_jul2002.jpg
Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by RogerE »

Hello MarkM and BigSaint, may I comment on your 12 June posts about the 5s cattle stamp on first day cover to London?
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15712&start=1745

BigSaint fairly assessed the cover as "philatelic" because it paid much more than the required postage, and he assessed the WCS = Wesley Cover Service as "stock standard"", also a fair comment based on considerable relevant experience. MarkM, you graciously accepted those comments, even though the assessment would have been disappointing for you. (In the Rod Perry tradition, the postal history significance of the cover is minimal.)

However, I find one redeeming feature of that cover is interest in its logo, from a social history viewpoint. Consider the thematic question: "Over time, how have Australian aboriginal themes featured on Australian philately?" The logo on MarkM's first day cover makes it one of the pioneering philatelic examples of recognition of aboriginal themes. (I have a modest collection around that theme, and I discovered a few years ago that another serious collector in one of my local stamp clubs also has a collection on that theme.)

The answer to the thematic question is that it took a long time before any reference to aboriginal culture appeared on our stamps. The 1930 Sturt commemoratives (SG 117-8) were the first, and you have to look very carefully at the "decorations" to see the aboriginal artefacts being used to frame the portrait.
.
.<br />Australia, 1930, Sturt commemoratives and aboriginal artefacts, SG 117-8
.
Australia, 1930, Sturt commemoratives and aboriginal artefacts, SG 117-8
.
The 1934 Victorian Centenary set (SG 147-9) was the first to portray an aboriginal person: he is a generic figure, not a recognisable individual, serving to represent the past, in contrast to the city of Melbourne, the built development Victoria had achieved since 1834. The 8½d portrait stamp of 1950 (SG 238), and its larger 2s6d successor of 1952 (SG 253) were the first issues portraying a real individual, a recognisable person. When was the next time a recognisable aboriginal person appeared on an Australian stamp? Aboriginal art work has featured much more often than aboriginal persons. (The 9 June 2020 aboriginal artwork set of four stamps is the latest.)

A few logos on First Day Covers of the 1950s and early 1960s started to use aboriginal themes, though the quality of the artwork was often poor. I finish this post with one more example:
.
.<br />Australia, 21 Sep 1960, Northern Territory Centenary stamp on Wesley FDC, <br />logo: poor quality generic portrait of aboriginal person
.
Australia, 21 Sep 1960, Northern Territory Centenary stamp on Wesley FDC,
logo: poor quality generic portrait of aboriginal person
.
/RogerE :D

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by RogerE »

Ohh, I forgot to add a retake of the logo on MarkM's Wesley FDC. Here it is, for completeness:
.
.<br />Australia, 26 July 1961, aboriginal theme logo on WCS First day cover
.
Australia, 26 July 1961, aboriginal theme logo on WCS First day cover
.
/RogerE :D

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Temora22 »

The cover below was Lot Lot 712 in Millenium's Internet Sale No. 71 which concluded yesterday.

Galah.jpg

It was described as "1964-65 Birds 1/6d Galah pair punctured 'VG' tied to 1966 (date unclear) 'Museum Specimens Only' packet from Melbourne to USA, paying very scarce 30c (3/-) other articles per 2oz. by airmail rate, exceptional £sd usage within decimal era, minor blemishes not detracting"

Estimated at $75 it realized a very surprising, in my view, $1200 plus commission etc.

It's hardly an eye-catching item. I believe it had been offered previously by Millennium and passed in at only a slightly higher estimate. What did at least two bidders see it in this time? Granted, the 1/6d Galah is a difficult stamp to find as a solo franking. Were these the more difficult helecon printing (not stated in the description)? The less frequently encountered "other articles" rate? A scarce perfin? Use in the decimal period? An error in the stamps?

Am I missing something here?

Regards,

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by traralgon3844 »

This one has to be philatelic.

Arms to 1 pound cover.jpg
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Temora22 »

2/- Kangaroo redrawn die as a solo franking on a registered bank cover sent air mail from Japan to Fiji via the Australian Army postal service (BCOF). Postmarked at Unit Postal Station 452 on 3 April 1950 and backstamped at Sydney (10 April) and upon arrival at Suva (13 April).

BCOF Fiji 01.jpg
BCOF Fiji 02.jpg
BCOF Fiji 03.jpg
Regards,

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hi,
1945 use of registered stampless OHMS cover from Rationing Commission to Sydney County Council, cancelled with red 'SYDNEY/N.S.W/3 15MCH 3/1945/3D/PAID' machine cancel, violet boxed '[RATIO]NING PAPERS ONLY - POST FREE' (A2). Interesting.
From Phoenix Auctions, Auction 2153, Lot 927:
sb_jul2004b.jpg
sb_jul2004a.jpg
What surprised me was that that additional postal services beyond domestic surface needed to be paid for.

Temora: Wow!! and a double, if not triple take on the two 1/6 Galahs! My bid was $80...

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Kipling »

Picked this up recently mainly because the sender was Fred Hagen, a well known Sydney stamp dealer in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Also a good copy of Fred's blue seal on the reverse. Although from a stamp dealer it is probably commercial use ( sadly!). I hope it's OK to post in this forum? If there's a more appropriate place would a mod kindly move it?

There are numerous references to Fred on these boards, and Glen has had a lot to do with first day of issue covers sent by Fred including a 1d red kangaroo sent on the day of issue in 1913. (That famous cover also has the blue seal on the reverse, and Fred seems to have used the same typewriter, with the same lilac ink!)

Some details of Fred's history are here----

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=6722766#p6722766

Because of Fred Hagen's involvement, I looked into the first day of issue possibility. The cover is dated Feb 6th 1919. The “black-browns” were first issued in 1918, except for a thin paper version that may have been issued in February 1919.

My 2014 edition of the King Geo V ACSC states at page 4/174 -----

“The thin paper variety was issued in Melbourne in February 1919.”

On the other hand there is a statement in one of these forums that the thin paper version was issued in March 1919. (That statement is in a Wiki I think, but I can't find it again without that custom search engine, which seems to have disappeared.)

So even if it could be established that the stamps, on cover, were the thin paper types, no actual date of issue seems to be known – just February or maybe March 1919, and it would also be less than helpful if they were issued in Melbourne, Fred being in Sydney.

On balance there don't seem to be any convincing grounds for saying it's not commercial use.
Any contrary views?
Also any idea what those very hard to read stamped or typed instructions are?


Regardless, a nice piece of postal history.
Attachments
Fred Hagen cover 1919
Fred Hagen cover 1919
2d 2.jpg
2d 3.jpg
2d 4.jpg

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Kainnikanada »

For the benefit of the rest of humanity who don't read text at acute angles here's a an easier version for their eyes:

2d 4 -01.jpg
Looking for NSW cut-down relief date stamps, as seen in my avatar, to add to my collection.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Kipling »

Thanks for putting it into the horizontal.
No thanks for the smart remark.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Kainnikanada »

Kipling wrote:
23 Jul 2020 16:15
No thanks for the smart remark.
What does Glenn say about common sense??
Looking for NSW cut-down relief date stamps, as seen in my avatar, to add to my collection.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Didge »

Temora22 wrote:
04 Jul 2020 14:25
The cover below was Lot Lot 712 in Millenium's Internet Sale No. 71 which concluded yesterday.


Image


It was described as "1964-65 Birds 1/6d Galah pair punctured 'VG' tied to 1966 (date unclear) 'Museum Specimens Only' packet from Melbourne to USA, paying very scarce 30c (3/-) other articles per 2oz. by airmail rate, exceptional £sd usage within decimal era, minor blemishes not detracting"

Estimated at $75 it realized a very surprising, in my view, $1200 plus commission etc.

It's hardly an eye-catching item. I believe it had been offered previously by Millennium and passed in at only a slightly higher estimate. What did at least two bidders see it in this time? Granted, the 1/6d Galah is a difficult stamp to find as a solo franking. Were these the more difficult helecon printing (not stated in the description)? The less frequently encountered "other articles" rate? A scarce perfin? Use in the decimal period? An error in the stamps?

Am I missing something here?

Regards,
Tamora,

Two people wanted it and got into a bidding war. Both got stubborn and would not give in. It is a nice thing though. I really like pre-decimal stamps used after the introduction of decimal currency and have quite a few of them. I have recently been outbid on a few of them. There must be someone in the market who is prepared to pay good money for these sorts of items. Trying to put together a one page exhibit would be very difficult.

Tim

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Global Administrator »

Kainnikanada wrote:
23 Jul 2020 16:26

What does Glen say about common sense??

I believe he says it is not nearly as common as some imagine. Some members prove this daily. Sadly.

And agree, asking for FREE assistance on deciphering something, then lazily loading it sideways, fits that category perfectly. :!:

THEN gets snippy when that obvious laziness is pointed out, speaks volumes. However, this same snippy member then claims our Search engine has ''disappeared.''

We actually have TWO, the ONE of which at top right has more grunt than NASA had for Apollo flights! For all except poor old Kipling. He cannot find either. That figures. He cleverly loads images sideways, and does not use his preview button. :roll:

Kipling wrote:
23 Jul 2020 13:45

(That statement is in a Wiki I think, but I can't find it again without that custom search engine, which seems to have disappeared.)
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Global Administrator »

Image

$1450 invoice is pretty amazing. I'd not even have got anywhere remotely near the $75 ESTIMATE if I were pricing it, so lesson learned!

Still not sure where the big interest lies in this one, but clearly there was some. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Millennium claim it was a Decimal era cover, yet they agree date is unclear. There is ZERO proof is cancelled after Feb 14, 1966, as on the ugly smeary Melbourne cancel only ''66'' is visible. And no big deal even if it were mailed after February 14, as all pre-decimal stamps were valid until Feb 1968. 3/- simply became 30c.

Glen
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

A 2½d Peace and Victory issue underpaid the Surface rate to the USA and the Airmail rate within (6d, I believe according to Breckon):
sb_jul2008.jpg
The cover was mailed from Sydney to Boston, Massachusetts and was postmarked 29 MCH 1946.

There is no indication that there were any other stamps on the cover nor of any postage due markings. (Nor a Late Fee - cancelled at 4:15am)

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

A cover mailed from Coburg, Australia to Osijek, Yugoslavia:

sb_jul2015a.jpg
sb_jul2015b.jpg

The cover was postmarked on 18 SEP 1939 and was backstamped in Greece before arriving in Osijek. The two 1/ Lyrebirds paid the 1/9d airmail rate plus 3d for registration. The 6d Kookaburra paid the express rate.

Perhaps the blue Post Office / Coburg postmark was meant to be used for registered mail? There is also an early censorship tape.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by MJ's pet »

Nice cover above AndrewG.

Australia entered WW2 on 3 September 1939. Your cover posted 18 September.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

The double oval Coburg postmark is WWW1040 rated RRRR.
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hello Ubobo.R.O. and MJ's pet,

I appreciate your comments.

This was the other cover I found on Delcampe:
sb_jul2016a.jpg
sb_jul2016b.jpg
Three 1/ Lyrebirds and a 9d Platypus paid the ½-1oz airmail rate (1/9d+1/8d=3/5d) plus 3d for registration. The sender overpaid the airmail rate by 1d. The cover appears to have been postmarked with a blue double-ring Coburg on 10 APR 1940 and was mailed to Osijek, Yugoslavia.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Temora22 »

AndrewG,

I like your September 1939 cover - scarce Coburg cancellation and an interesting combination of airmail to a less common destination, registration and express delivery.

May I ask where you found that 6d was the express delivery charge? I'm not in any way suggesting you are incorrect but I'm yet to find a comprehensive explanation of either the various express delivery options/ services or the respective charges.

Another aspect I like is that the censor has added the date in manuscript to the censor handstamp - most unusual in my experience.

Regards,

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hello Temora22,

Richard Breckon's explanations of the express charges are on pages 38-40, The Australian Philatelist, Winter 1989. The 6d fee is on page 40.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by Temora22 »

Hello AndrewG,

Thanks - I had forgotten about the Breckon articles in AP.

I note the article states "An express delivery service for selected overseas countries commenced in December 1927".

It would be interesting to find PMG post office guide books from the period to see if they listed the "selected countries". I'm not sure, otherwise, how postmasters at suburban post offices such as Coburg would have known which countries were included. Yugoslavia in 1939 wouldn't have seemed an obvious one to me.

Regards

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hello Temora,

Page 42 of the Winter 1989 The Australian Philatelist has additional notes about overseas airmail rates. Also Breckon mentions that air mail service was extended to "other articles" starting in 1952. For these rates he recommends Martin Walker's Air Mail Postage Rates of Australia.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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