Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/covers!

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

enesem wrote:I have one of them.... is it important for me to know which I have ? It appears the difference here is the perforation - KAMPF or APS ? In this case, I can just say, well, it doesn't really matter, I suppose. I could just say it's SG 1028 and be done with it.

Thanks for bearing with me.

Neil
How can anybody else say what is important to you ? It's your collection, your choice.

You've written > "I don't really want to get deep into Machins."

There is your answer; seeking advice over which stamp is which is one thing: asking whether it matters to you whether the perforation is KAMPF or APS is another. It's SG 1028 and that's it.

Of course if you didn't have a pre-printed album in the first place, none of this would matter. Take what you have, if they look different (colour/shade, gum, phosphor, perforation, whiteness of head, shape of value, neckline) then keep both - then identify them, or come here for help identifying them.

But don't beat yourself up about which one you have if you have only one. Ditch the Davo and use quadrille pages with cut-to-size mounts.
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

Catweazle wrote:Is it a variety of sorts? The colours in real life are similar to that in the photo above, except that the shades are more noticeably differ. Or is that a silly question, given how many varieties are out there with these issues?
Yes, it's the "I've been soaked off in water which was too hot and it's changed the phosphor bands" variety. :lol:
Looks like the standard original 1971 version, though I may be wrong. Forgive me for not showing the picture again - too early in the day for that fabric ! :shock:
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by gooner »

norvic wrote:How can anybody else say what is important to you ? It's your collection, your choice.

You've written > "I don't really want to get deep into Machins."

There is your answer; seeking advice over which stamp is which is one thing: asking whether it matters to you whether the perforation is KAMPF or APS is another. It's SG 1028 and that's it.

Of course if you didn't have a pre-printed album in the first place, none of this would matter. Take what you have, if they look different (colour/shade, gum, phosphor, perforation, whiteness of head, shape of value, neckline) then keep both - then identify them, or come here for help identifying them.

But don't beat yourself up about which one you have if you have only one.
It is really difficult to advise someone else about how their collection should look. Everyone has an opinion based either on their own likes/dislikes or just based on experience. So keeping that in mind - I agree 99% with everything Norvic has said above. I will emphasise the important part - it is YOUR collection - YOUR decision.

So where don't I agree:
norvic wrote:Ditch the Davo and use quadrille pages with cut-to-size mounts.
You have obviously made an investment in the DAVO that it would be unusual to just ditch if you have no intention of specialising. I no longer use my DAVO but that is specifically because it didn't meet my needs, didn't go down to the level I wanted and especially the direction I wanted to grow.
I ended up building a "specialised" Machin album, but this is not for you - at least not yet - if only because your heart is not 100% into Machins.
If you are using the SG Concise as your basic "collection" database then the DAVO will supply all the spaces you need (and sometimes more). If you are following DEEGAM then you can forget ANY of the known printed albums as no printed album manufacturer follows that specialisation (I would say that Connoisseur comes close but at a really hefty price and has the huge deficiency of only being available up to 2002).

PS - If you do want to ADD to your DAVO they do supply Quadrilled pages to fit the album.
Regards .. Dave
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by Jack »

http://www.phoenixauctions.com.au/cgi-bin/wsPhoenix.sh/viewl ... auction=29

'1960s-2000s Machin Covers with lots of solo frankings inclusing 1970s Forces Mail with 1p, 1½p & 2p also 1990-2000s with 1st & 2nd Class types, also regionals and a few instructional handstamps sighted, regionals. Bewildering array of material and a great lot for Machin and/or rates specialist. (250+)'

Phoenix auctions have a large bundle of Machin covers for sale in their current auction - lot 161.

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by Lundy »

Hi all,

About 2 minutes after I cut this off a letter I received, I noticed it had a strange flaw across the top of the queens head.

I assume it is a one off and thought I would add it here

Image

Lundy :D

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by Dave.mbe »

Lundy

Beautiful cancellation! Almost always when I receive mail from the UK, the stamps are either obliterated with too much ink or someone has invalidated future postal re-use with an over-aggressive ball-point pen. If that's not the case, the stamp has had a corner lifted and is then creased or torn; again rendering it totally useless.
From my cynical perspective; keep it, enjoy it; it really is a one-off!! Glad you added it here. :D :D :wink:
Dave

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by tallanent »

Thought the following would fit this thread ...
Image
Only the bottom part of the pane remains but it does have a couple of things going for it ...

1 ... Cylinder numbers W12 W8 at left

2 ... The stamps are overprinted with the large SCHOOL SPECIMEN, each impression covering two stamps

I am going to be putting this up for sale once I can get some idea of value, so any suggestions would be most welcomed

ALLAN
The British Postmark Database at http://philatelicweb.com/pmks/ with over 17,800 entries and over 15,370 illustrated

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by kvasir »

Hi all

I recently got back into my used Machin collection. I'm missing mostly higher value ones 50p+, security, NVI. I'm have so many duplicate values and colours that I'm beginning to collect at a level where I try to identify phosphor tagging type and paper type if possible. I have several questions:

1a: As I mentioned I collect used Machins, so I bought a bunch of mint ones from Royal Mail online (and they come in these great presentation mount!). They don't do favour cancel for mail order, however, so I have to send them back to the UK for a handstamp. With security Machins, can I just affix the mint stamps with their original wax paper backing to a cover so after the stamp has been postmark the whole piece can be removed and put into my album? What about taping the wax paper to the cover? Hate to do it the "normal" way and having to figure out some dodgy method to get the stamp off paper.

1b: For items sent to Royal Mail for special hand stamp, do I need to have correct postage and address for Canada? Will they not put these in a self-address-stamped-envelope? Wouldn't they ruin the stamped covers by putting them through the mailing system? I only send mine in to make them into used stamps so I don't really care about the quality of the cancel. I can't imagine other collectors would want this?

1c: What other ways are there to collect effectively used security Machins from being overseas? As kiloware seldom has the values you want.

2a: To my dismay I recently realise that it is hard to identify phosphor and type on soaked Machins and probably a majority of my collection is already "ruined" because of this. What is the best way to get them off paper?

2b: Is a crisply phosphorised used Machin more valuable than soaked / phosphor-contaminated Machin? Does it really matter? As used stamps are usually low value anyway and phosphor isn't something readily identifiable like flaws.

2c: What's the best way to view phosphor on a soaked Machin? I have one of these:
https://www.royalsovereign.ca/office-products-4/counterfeit-d ... 0-797.html
But it doesn't really work well for soaked stamps. Do I need better lamps?

3: What are some tips to identify paper types on used? OCP, FCP, ACP, PCP?? Any site with pictures?
https://www.adminware.ca/machin/m_terms.htm

4: Often times I come across a Machin with a cancel showing full date, or even just year, is very helpful for me to determine the variety, without looking at the paper or phosphor. Is this a reasonable assumption that a certain variety would never be used before the published issue date (on Adminware/Deegan)?

5: Eventually I want to get into displaying my Machins. Do people display Machins by their paper type, phosphor and perforation type (Kampf vs APS)? These are not something easily identifiable in an exhibit.

I also want to share some pictures from my Machin collection:

Isle of Man
Image

Pre-decimal first issue variety only
Image

FDC of the first three Machins
Image

FDCs of the first Regional Machins
Image
Image
Image
Image

Thanks a lot in advance.

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by kvasir »

Someone mentioned in this thread the HK Machins, so I thought I would share mine.

This 1992 definitive series was the last during the reign of Queen Elizabeth II over the territory. It was the only one to feature the same Arnold Machin head as the popular British series.

On this 1997 Last Day Cover shows most of the values issued over the years. Unfortunately, 60c; 70c; 80c; 90c; $1.10; $1.50; $1.70; $1.80; $1.90; $2.30; $2.40; $2.60 are missing. Some values appear in other versions exclusively on souvenir mini-sheets.The $10 were available in as many as 10 different colours. There is also a hologram version that is embedded in a maxicard.

The very next day on 26 January 1997, a new definitive series was released without any colonial hallmark in preparation of the territory's sovereignty transfer to China on 1 July.

Image

Yes they are the same size as your regular ones, except for the high values $10, $20 and $50.

Image

Though not your usual "Machin", this 1987 definitive series was the third and last Hong Kong series to feature the laurel-leaf bandeau bas-relief of Her Majesty by Arnold Machin. This profile has been in use in UK stamps since 1968 and the cameo outline head (same as in the UK) has appeared frequently on commemoratives since. Two previous Hong Kong series featuring this effigy were issued in 1973 and 1982.

The series continued til 1991 with many more varieties issued in between. This cover only shows the denominations released in 1987, naturally.

The two smaller 10c and 50c were not part of the series but were issued on the same date. They were the first stamps to be designed and issued specifically for stamp-vending machines.

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by mikey1327 »

Welcome to the boards.
1c: What other ways are there to collect effectively used security Machins from being overseas? As kiloware seldom has the values you want.
When you qualify you can start a thread in the Swap forum or Wanted forum.
2a: To my dismay I recently realise that it is hard to identify phosphor and type on soaked Machins and probably a majority of my collection is already "ruined" because of this. What is the best way to get them off paper?
I am leaving machins on paper for this reason.



2c: What's the best way to view phosphor on a soaked Machin? I have one of these:
http://www.royalsovereign.ca/office-pro ... 0-797.html
But it doesn't really work well for soaked stamps. Do I need better lamps?
You will need a Longwave and a Shortwave Light. I am not sure which you have. Which stamps does it work on if any.

Hope this helps.

Mike

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by gooner »

kvasir wrote:3: What are some tips to identify paper types on used? OCP, FCP, ACP, PCP?? Any site with pictures?
http://www.adminware.ca/machin/m_terms.htm
To be honest pictures don't help a lot on identifying paper types..
The best way is to try and find one of each that you know to be of a specific paper type, use these as "control" issues and then TRY to compare your known types to others in your collection.
This really only works for MINT stamps. There is the same problem with used that have been soaked for paper types as with phosphor bands. The stamp can become corrupted and look different to the mint version.
I get a lot of queries about USED Machins that owners think are UNIQUE shades for example when in fact mostly it is because they have been washed.
There is a forum below my sig which deals predominantly with Machins and there are threads on there that TRY to deal with these paper differences.
Regards .. Dave
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by kvasir »

mikey1327 wrote:
2c: What's the best way to view phosphor on a soaked Machin? I have one of these:
http://www.royalsovereign.ca/office-pro ... 0-797.html
But it doesn't really work well for soaked stamps. Do I need better lamps?
You will need a Longwave and a Shortwave Light. I am not sure which you have. Which stamps does it work on if any.
Thanks! I tested a few more used stamps under the lamp and find that it really depends on the stamp and how it came off paper. Some do not show any fluorescence at all even though you can tell by naked eye there is a stripe there.

Here I tested a pair of lime green 6p with my machine:
Image link inactive. Removed

Perhaps not my my entire used collection is ruined. :)

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

Wow, there's a lot to cover all in one post, but I'll give it a try, in line with the questions.
kvasir wrote:
1a: As I mentioned I collect used Machins, so I bought a bunch of mint ones from Royal Mail online (and they come in these great presentation mount!). They don't do favour cancel for mail order, however, so I have to send them back to the UK for a handstamp.

With security Machins, can I just affix the mint stamps with their original wax paper backing to a cover so after the stamp has been postmark the whole piece can be removed and put into my album? What about taping the wax paper to the cover? Hate to do it the "normal" way and having to figure out some dodgy method to get the stamp off paper.
Royal Mail special handstamp centres will not cancel stamps still on the backing paper. This rule was introduced when they started removing the matrix from booklets, as the postmark does not adhere to the backing. The problem was that people applying the booklet to FDCs received 'damaged' or incomplete postmarks which showed only on the stamps. So although you may get some done it would be by error.

1b: For items sent to Royal Mail for special hand stamp, do I need to have correct postage and address for Canada? Will they not put these in a self-address-stamped-envelope? Wouldn't they ruin the stamped covers by putting them through the mailing system? I only send mine in to make them into used stamps so I don't really care about the quality of the cancel. I can't imagine other collectors would want this?
All items sent to SHCs must be addressed and have the correct postage for the address. Of course this could be as low as 81p for surface mail. An acceptable alternative - which still requires the items to be addressed (although that can be in pencil) is to provide a addressed envelope/packet stamped for the correct weight of all the items to be returned. I recently confirmed this for a customer so I know it works.

1c: What other ways are there to collect effectively used security Machins from being overseas? As kiloware seldom has the values you want.
You could ask somebody in the UK to get them cancelled locally. Some small POs are willing to hand-back, though you would want to ensure that the PO had the right type of canceller. I could get it done but unfortunately the self-inking datestamp has fallen apart and they have reverted to a double-ring handstamp which gets really claggy with the old style inkpad, so while I still get it used on packets I am mailing out (anything is better than nothing) it's not something I would offer as a service!

2a: To my dismay I recently realise that it is hard to identify phosphor and type on soaked Machins and probably a majority of my collection is already "ruined" because of this. What is the best way to get them off paper?
Pre-security: soak in warm water with a small amount of washing up liquid. This will allow the stamps to float, or even peel when fully submerged. The hotter the water the more the damage to phosphor. Security: leave them on!

2b: Is a crisply phosphorised used Machin more valuable than soaked / phosphor-contaminated Machin? Does it really matter? As used stamps are usually low value anyway and phosphor isn't something readily identifiable like flaws.
You will know, and you can always display pictures of the phosphor. This is a recent example of an extreme shift of phosphor and iridescent layer on to the stamp below:

Image


4: Often times I come across a Machin with a cancel showing full date, or even just year, is very helpful for me to determine the variety, without looking at the paper or phosphor. Is this a reasonable assumption that a certain variety would never be used before the published issue date (on Adminware/Deegan)?
Yes, but decimal stamps can be used forever, so you can't assume that a stamp with a clear 2005 postmark may not have been issued in 1975!
Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: https://blog.norphil.co.uk, NPhilatelics on twitter, www norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk for our e-commerce site [currently closed for the duration]

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

kvasir wrote:Thanks! I tested a few more used stamps under the lamp and find that it really depends on the stamp and how it came off paper. Some do not show any fluorescence at all even though you can tell by naked eye there is a stripe there.

Here I tested a pair of lime green 6p with my machine:
Image link inactive. Removed

Perhaps not my my entire used collection is ruined. :)
As you will see from the more detailed websites and catalogues, there is phosphorescence and fluorescence. Phosphor on Machins usually only shows as an afterglow, although you can see where it is. On some there is also yellow fluorescence - as with the one you show.

It is possible that both of these stamps are 'ok' and that neither is ruined.
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by kvasir »

Thank you very much for the detailed response, norvic!

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Post by norvic »

You were lucky that I had found that phosphor shift and taken the picture only about 30 minutes before finding your questions!
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by kvasir »

norvic wrote:You were lucky that I had found that phosphor shift and taken the picture only about 30 minutes before finding your questions!
Yes indeed, thanks! Is that what they mean by "varnish"? I had no idea what that means or look like when I saw it on Deegam or Adminware.

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

kvasir wrote:
norvic wrote:You were lucky that I had found that phosphor shift and taken the picture only about 30 minutes before finding your questions!
Yes indeed, thanks! Is that what they mean by "varnish"? I had no idea what that means or look like when I saw it on Deegam or Adminware.
No, 'varnish' was only applied to a few stamps and I don't know the details (9p?). Modern security stamps which appear to be printed in one colour have three layers: red, iridescent and phosphor.

This is the microscope image showing the mis-registration which has moved the iridescent layer down, with the UV version alongside. The OY seen at the left is in line with the diadem whereas this line should be at the very top of the stamp.

ImageImage
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by Dave.mbe »

kvasir wrote:Is that what they mean by "varnish"? I had no idea what that means or look like when I saw it on Deegam or Adminware.
The printer, Enschede, at the time of their introduction of the 'elliptical' perforation in 1993, also used a new yellow phosphor ink which initially proved ineffective because of its absorption into the paper of the stamp. To combat this problem, a 4mm band of varnish was printed down the margin of of the stamps prior to the application of the phosphor bands.

While this solved the problem, it was soon determined that a 4mm band was unnecessarily wide and the bands were soon reduced to a 2mm band, which if properly applied, could be placed down the line of the perforations only on the white area, thus not onto the coloured area of the stamp.

Hope this helps
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by Park Ranger »

The 6p Enschede printing exists with both yellow and blue fluro additive. The yellow came first and gives a stronger reaction. The blue is generally a lot weaker and varies from almost white through blue to purple.

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by kvasir »

Thanks for the explanation regarding the varnish!

The blue is generally a lot weaker and varies from almost white through blue to purple.
Isn't that range caused by the type of paper as well?

Ah... and then there's a specific "violet" phosphor variety! :x

I wish there's a site that compares how these combination of varieties appear under UV light.

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

kvasir wrote:I wish there's a site that compares how these combination of varieties appear under UV light.
Blimey! I've only just managed to get a photo of an ultra-violet reaction on a stamp :lol: .
I'm sure somebody could provide a very technical comparison with data in lumens or whatever is used, but pictures would be best. That would also take a lot of time, and as we have indicated before, mint stamps are best and are also little guide as to what you might see on used/soaked stamps.
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by kvasir »

Yeah, picture speaks a thousand words. I think the 1p would be a great candidate for comparison. It has all paper, phosphor, and printing types.

I have a pile of unsorted 1Ps just because it's such a daunting task without any visual guide. :?

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by Park Ranger »

I was talking about the fluro additive not the phosphor afterglow . The blue fluro does vary a lot, on this issue. Not something many mint collectors get hung up about. As it's been said before it's pointless on soaked to try and study fluros paper types etc. As far as I know their was only one paper type used on the 6p lime with phosphor bands anyway.

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Post by norvic »

Interesting Express rate cover picked up with others on eBay. When I bid I didn't notice that this is underpaid.

The 1st class letter rate from 15 February 1971 was 3p - as shown here.
Before 15 February 1971 the Express fee was 3/-, as shown here (6 x pre-decimal 6d stamps)

But the Express fee after 15 February 1971 was 20p, so this is 5p underpaid - and despite the fact that it must have been handed over the PO counter, it escaped surcharging. So by 15 May, there was still confusion. (Shame about the rust spots at the top.)

Image
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by kvasir »

Very nice!

When did pre-decimal stamps become completely demonetised?

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

At the end of February (29th) 1972 just over a year after D-day.
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by kvasir »

Theses are some new Machins (recent, up to 2014) I ordered from the Royal Mail site and sent back to the UK for cancellation.

One of the covers was sent to Cardiff, the other two to London. The £ 2.15 was on a self-addressed envelope for the Cardiff cover. I had enough postage for each of the two London covers to be mailed back by signed for / track service but the post office used their own envelope to mail back the two covers. Note the two dates on one of the London covers.

Image

This was how I affixed the stamps on the covers for easy removal off paper later:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kvasir79/sets/72157645341794687/

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

kvasir wrote:Theses are some new Machins (recent, up to 2014) I ordered from the Royal Mail site and sent back to the UK for cancellation.

This was how I affixed the stamps on the covers for easy removal off paper later:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kvasir79/sets/72157645341794687/
So now what will you do with these stamps which are cancelled but which have mostly original (self-adhesive) gum?
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by kvasir »

norvic wrote:So now what will you do with these stamps which are cancelled but which have mostly original (self-adhesive) gum?
Here's where I'm not sure. I could cut out pieces of wax paper that is exactly the same size as the stamp (just so it covers the full back of the stamp minus the perforation), and replace the original backing paper I had on there. The stamps as they are now are not very sticky any way but I don't want to risk them sticking to the album or other stamps in my stock book.

I definitely want to preserve the self-adhesive gum, right? Hence no other type of backing paper accept the waxy one?

The cover with cancel on two different dates is interesting, but is it collectible at all as a cover?

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

2014 issue, 97p solo on cover to Crimea, Ukraine, 11 July 2014 returned as expected. No other postal markings such as to indicate where it was returned from.

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by Rackrunner »

Here is a cutout that fits into the discussion- Dec.30-74.

Paul

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by Park Ranger »

Does anyone have a decent picture or link to one of a complete sheet of any machin value from the mid 1970s ? I think it's called a primary sheet. Cheers in advance.

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by gooner »

Park Ranger wrote:Does anyone have a decent picture or link to one of a complete sheet of any machin value from the mid 1970s ? I think it's called a primary sheet. Cheers in advance.
The problem with finding a image of a complete sheet of 1970's values is that I believe they were printed in sheets of 200 which makes an awful big image.
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by Park Ranger »

Yes it is a problem that's probably why I can't find one

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

Here's a modern sheet, not shown in response to the previous request but to show how production has been tailored to modern needs. No longer are large sheets of stamps folded, unfolder, split, torn whilst on the counter. Now the sheets are of 25 (except for the 2nd, 1st, 2nd Large and 1st Large which are in 50s).

Image

This one has a face value of £160, and represents the first reprint of a Special Delivery stamp since they were issued in 2010. The MA10 and M14L coding shows well against the silver background, but is easier to see in the microscope view

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by stephane »

I just purchased at auction a large carton containing 25 lbs (pounds) of loose, good quality off-paper Machins. Actually, the lot was described as being "about 90% Machins - likely over 200,000 stamps". Before I bid on it I had the opportunity to view the lot, and used a UV light to see if they had been "overwashed", and to my surprise they lit up like a Christmas tree.

Over this past weekend I have spent about 4 hours starting to sort the hoard into three piles: Machins (90% so far), GB commemoratives (1980s to 2000s, about 8% so far) and pre-Machin definitives (think they are called Wildings? about 2% so far). This 4 hours got me to only just barely skim off the top of the pile, and so far I figure i must have about 1,000 Machins. I have a long, long way to go, but will sort a little here and there and eventually get there!

The variety so far has been quite good, and it looks like there is a little bit of everything, except I haven't seen any modern security coded stamps. I guess the previous owner stopped hoarding them just before they came out. Once I am finished, I will sell the commemoratives and Wildings to a friend who sells packets 9he has already vouched for them). This alone should more than pay for the whole carton, which cost me C$60.

If anyone is interested, I can keep you posted on my progress throughout the next several months. I will probably need assistance in helping me figure out what the best thing to do with the Machins is. How to sort them, what to look for, how to store them, etc. Looks like I may end up with over 150,000 of them!

Regards, Stephane

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by GlenStephens »

norvic wrote: The MA10 and M14L coding shows well against the silver background, but is easier to see in the microscope view

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Excellent scan Ian. :)
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by John Kap »

I hope this is the right chapter for my question, if not, I'll apologize for that. I have just started with the big challenge called "collecting Machin stamps".

I've got a box with a lot of Machin stamps on paper, so I have to separate them from the paper first, but what is the solution for the security stamps with slits?

Or am I just sentenced to put them in my stockbook with the enveloppaper on the back, because what I want is a mission impossible?

I'm just very curious how you people do that? For now, I'm only collecting used stamps, not mints. Thx for all the answers.

For example this one

Image


Or this one

Image

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

The security slits are only part of your problem. The gum is not water soluble so removing the stamps, safely, from the envelope paper is difficult. There are solutions, but they leave gum and are mainly used by people removing uncancelled stamps for reuse: orange oil, white spirit, pure alcohol are solutions. But my attempt with an alcohol-based after-shave (purely for research, you understand) was not good:

Image
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by John Kap »

Thx Ian for your answers.

I don't know the orange Oil, but I guess the stamps will smell nice instead of the smell when using white spirit. You will smell white spirit for years in the stockbook I guess.

Lol pure alcohol, I can try that, but I guess if those are the only solutions, I will leave the paper on it. Unless someone else have more solutions? :D

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by mmestrange »

I own myself fascinated by Machin stamps too. I've never seen the large ones before, so I'm glad to be able to see pictures of them here.

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

GlenStephens wrote:
norvic wrote: The MA10 and M14L coding shows well against the silver background, but is easier to see in the microscope view

Image
Excellent scan Ian. :)
Digital Microscope, Glen. And for UK readers - from Maplin.
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by JonEboy »

Here's one that I almost consigned to the bin but then remembered that someone (most likely norvic) had discussed this somewhere else.

I seem to recall reading about Machins that were pre cancelled on the backing sheets before being applied by machine to mailers. I'm guessing this is one of them :?:

Image

Typical spray cancel underneath and just for the record is it the M14L second class Machin shown here.

I don't recall seeing one of these before - anyone else got any examples?

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

Which source code is it Jon - top right?
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by JonEboy »

norvic wrote:Which source code is it Jon - top right?
MB1L

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by norvic »

So, from a business sheet, rather than a coil. [I'm glad about that because we don't know about the M14L MRIL coil !)

These are in sheets of 100; application is probably by hand, and that begs the question how the cancelling is done.
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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by JonEboy »

norvic wrote: These are in sheets of 100; application is probably by hand, and that begs the question how the cancelling is done.
And that is a very good question.... :?:

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Re: Share, discuss, or query, the GB MACHIN HEAD stamps/cove

Post by JonEboy »

....and in a timely bump there is a photograph of this Machin, although a M13L version, with this cancel on p57 of the November Gibbons Stamp Monthly which I have just spotted.

The one in the magazine is on piece but from kiloware whereas I have mine intact on cover with the contents in case anyone is intrigued...

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Do I not like GB decimal machins?!

Post by wilko »

After a year off I have relapsed and started shuffling small bits of paper around my desk again. The bits of paper included a couple of albums containing machins. I have a love hate relationship with them. On the one hand they are the modern equivalent of the wonderful Victorian penny reds, on the other hand they are bland and unimaginative and have none of the charm of their Victorian ancestors. The best thing about my machin collection is arguably some of the CDS postmarks on them which give them a charm sadly lacking in the stamp itself. Here are 2 examples:

Image

This brings me on to the main point of this post. In all the catalogues/lists I have seen the 2 above stamps are described as "grey-blue". I have never seen a different colour/shade listed for this stamp and yet the 2 examples in the scan are vastly different in colour. This is not a one off:

Image

Again I cannot recall this stamp being described as anything other than a single shade. And another:

Image

Less apparent this time and nearly 20 years between their use dates but I am pretty sure they are the same breed and not different printers.

I could go on as I have a few more examples but I will rest here. So my question is are there any catalogues which differentiate machins by colour shade rather than merely by coatings, printers, phosphor bands and other equally turgid criteria? I would prefer to collect stamps by reference to what I can see with my eyes though I am sure that the more avid machin collectors will tell me that you can spot the difference between the different printers a mile off.

Another point I would make is that it seems to me that the variations in colour shade are more prevalent in the earlier issues and that modern techniques have produced a uniformity of colour which may please the printers union but does nothing for collectors. Am I right?

And finally, I was shuffling my 10p's and noticed something odd about one of these stamps:

Image

It's the one in the middle. Can anyone see what I am getting at. Again , unless I am sadly mistaken, they are all DLR printings with 2 bands.
Time for bed.

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