Share your Worldwide Squared Circle stamp postmarks

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by tonymacg »

This squared circle of Tikamgarh, in Orchha State in India

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Image


seems very late - 1943 - for a squared circle. Were they still in regular use in other places into the 1940s or beyond?
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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

The key to your question is the term "regular use". Lots of philatelic usage (FDC, commemorative covers) - Eureka NZ into the 1970s (and some other towns), Waterloo, Ont in 1963, I've seen a number of South Australia usages (Polda comes to mind).

There are some Canadian ones in the Elizabeth period that seem to fall into the category of emergency use - Xmas mail, that sort of thing.

But not many in normal usage - Zii in Cyprus until 1943, London Ont on airmail covers late 40s - early 50s, apparently Ellis Post, CGH on South Africa until 1940, Brazil Belem-Para flight covers (arguably philatelic) up to 1941, don't know about elsewhere.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by tonymacg »

This use at Tikamgarh, the de facto capital of Orchha State, wasn't philatelic. Just one of the great survivors, I guess :D

Here is another Tikamgarh squared circle on the first stamp of Orchha, back in 1914:

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

It looks like 2 different hammers on those 2 covers. First off, in the 1914 cover, I'd guess the off stamp strike is someone's hand drawn facsimile (there's no symbols between the Tikamurgh and the Orcha State, and the E is small and well separated from the H). The ones on stamp look like the ones I have (mine are on post office forms).
Image

The 1943 strike when I look at the upward extension of the I, it points at the left edge of the 2nd bar (or maybe to the left of it a bit). The 1914 strike points right through the middle of the 2nd bar, and to the left edge of the 3rd bar. Different hammers.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by tonymacg »

That was a hand-drawn impression of the top of the squared circle in the 1914 cover. Some philatelic vandal probably removed a stamp, and drew in the missing part of the strike.

Here it is again, in 1917:

Image


Image

(Incidentally, PO forms are a wonderful source of good strikes of Indian States postmarks. I've found those from Barwani - not squared circles, unfortunately :D - the veritable gold mine.)
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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Joy Daschaudhuri »

moloch wrote: The ones on stamp look like the ones I have (mine are on post office forms).
Image
This is an acknowledgment card for registered mail, not a post office form.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

very good additions,thanks a lot. To blue gum, thanks for noticing the website that I have started a few months ago. I am still working on it, I slowed down during the summer but hopefully by the end of the year I will try to put up new information and updates. If any of you has any comment on the webiste please let me know .Mattia

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Joy Daschaudhuri »

I just checked out the site https://thesquaredcirclepostmarksworldwide.ca and found factual inacuracies in the India-Portuguese section.
India - Portuguese
The British Post was also active in Portuguese India and had some Post offices there. Even if the catalogues do not make any reference to postmarks for the enclaves of Goa, Damao or Diu, it is possible that the squared circle postmarks have been used in these territories. I have been shown a postmark of Chandor Bazar which could be from Portuguese India (but a location with the same name exists also in Central India). This subject is still under investigation.
Image


https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=40179
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=39320&p=3071185&hilit=Chandor+Bazar#p3071185

First Point: No squared circle postmark was ever used at Índia Portuguêsa post offices or British India post office in Por. India territory.

Secondly, Chandurbazar (Anglicized as Chandor Bazar) (21.2417°N 77.7456°E) is located in Amravati district of Maharashtra which came under Br. India whereas Chandor (15.26444°N 74.04778°E) is in South Gõy district of Gõy which was under Por. India.

Squared circle postmarks was first introduced in India in Br. India POs in 1884 vide Paragraph 4 of Post Office Circular No. 66 dt. January 11,1891 though it was found to be used by Experimental POs even earlier in 1883.

The purpose of introduction was to replace the duplex cancellations comprising an obliterator and a date stamp, with the combination of both in a single postmark.

Squared circle postmarks were used by Head and Sub Post Offices handling on average 1000 posted articles daily and also by Traveling Post Offices till 1880 and by Railway Mail Services thereafter till 1910. These were used by the Stationary Office, Press Sorter, Mail Guard, RMS Receiving Offices, Head/ Sub Record Offices of RMS.

The purpose of introduction was to replace the duplex cancellations comprising an obliterator and a date stamp, with the combination of both in a single postmark.

Squared circle postmarks were used by Head and Sub Post Offices handling on average 1000 posted articles daily and also by Traveling Post Offices till 1880 and by Railway Mail Services thereafter till 1910. These were used by the Stationary Office, Press Sorter, Mail Guard, RMS Receiving Offices, Head/ Sub Record Offices of RMS.

The Chandor Escritório dos Correios on the other hand was established only in 1889 as Chandor Correio Ambulante (RMS) which functioned in the Porto de Marmagão-Kalambuli RMS line.

Only 6 types of postmarks were used by Chandor CA/EC and none of which is squared circle.
  • Type 2 single circular date stamp/thimble cancelation (19mm) (intr.1889)
    Chandor CA
  • Type 3 single circular date stamp (26mm) (intr.1889)
    Chandor CA
  • Type 6 Correios e Telegrafos single circular date stamp (intr.1936)
    Subtype 6a (30mm)
    Subtype 6b (31mm)
    Subtype 6c (29mm)
    Chandor CA
  • Type 2 double circular date stamp (29.5mm) (intr.1898)
    Chandor CA
  • Type 2c (32mm)
    Chandor EC
  • Dual ring cds (intr.1950)
    Chandor EC

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Joy Daschaudhuri »

Short History of British India Post Office in Portugese Settlements in India

The first and the only British India Post Office in Índia Portuguêsa was opened at Daman in 1802 when the Mumbai-Rajkot postal line was established.

It was only in 1883 when Carlos Eugénio Correia da Silva, Governador Geral da Índia Potuguêsa (1882-86) in his official letter no. 79 dt. June 25,1883 to James Charles Fergusson, Governor of Mumbai (1880-85), first asked for the withdrawal of the only Br. India PO in Por. India territory from Daman and the replacement of it by a Por. India Escritório dos Correios as no convention or treaty was ever signed between the two governments in this regard.

When asked by the govt. for the view of the Posts and Telegraphs Department, Frederick Rogers Hogg, Director General of Post Office in India in the Notes in the P&T Department dt. January 2,1884, opined that the proposal of withdrawal of Br. India Daman PO was more political than postal but from the postal point of view, there was no objection on the part of the Br. India PO.

Following this official view, JF Finlay, Officiating Under Secretary to the Department of Finance and Commerce, Government of India in the letter no.513 dt. January 26,1884 to the Secretary to the Department of Finance, Govternment of Mumbai in response to the latter's letter no.2719 dt. July 26,1883, officially conveyed the decision to withdraw the only Br. India PO in Por. India territory from Daman with effect from April 1,1884.

So, no other Br. India PO ever existed in Por. India territory other than Daman and it closed down at a time when the squared circle postmark was just introduced and no such postmark is not known to be emanated from Daman.

It may be mentioned that under the clauses of Article V of the Convention signed between Portugal (by João de Andrade Carvalho) and GB (by Robert Burnett David Morier) on December 26,1878 but enforced in 1880, any postal article passing between Por. and Br. India only required postage stamps of the authority where the article was posted contrary to the earlier practice of double payment of postge to both of the postal authorities.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

One I picked up last week from Netherlands Indies, Banda-Neira

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Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Frank_King »

Here is my latest pickup:

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Ashburton, New Zealand

17 October, 1894

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

A few Italian ones I picked up

First a TPO one Pisa-Torino

Image

Then a couple on postcards which I cannot make out, any ideas? At 50p each I thought a good addition to my collection

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Image

Image

Thanks

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by kushti »

I don't think we've had this one...Amalfi, Italy, on a 1905 picture postcard.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

The last of the 2 known days for the B time mark for Mombasa.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Here is a scarce one, damaged but this was used at Barnards Landing (Puruni), British Guiana

It is known used between 30.4.96 and 24.10.97

I guess this is 31.5.96 with Inverted 31 also interesting is that this is a numeral 5 for May whereas, in the illustration in Proud it would suggest it reads May....

Image


Any other info always welcomed

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Lundy. That's where a postmark collector and a stamp collector differ. I see that and see nothing but wonderful.

An update of Townsend & Howe can be found here:
http://bwisc.org/Bulletins/b199_200312.pdf
and indicates a much larger range of dates, but it's still rated Very Rare, the hardest of all British Guiana squares.

So that's one to be proud of in your collection.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Thanks for the additional information Moloch, I don't have many of the squared circles from british Guiana so I was really please to get this and with a very Good strike :D

Do you collect British Guiana postmarks?? I may start a thread although inonly have a pretty basic range.....

Thanks again

Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

I don't collect BG cancels other than the squared circles. I don't have many different towns either, but that's probably both a function of not actively seeking them and difficulty. Looking at that journal article, there is nothing common other than Georgetown, Carmichael St. and Skeldon, and that agrees with what I possess.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by S Wilson »

... here is one from 19th Century Perak state - Ipoh

S Wilson

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by unechan »

Hi, very interesting activity !
This is not an addition, but would be an additional information for the country list;

Japan have never used the squared circle postmark.

- Hironobu
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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Hi all, added this elsewhere but also useful here I think,

Just one new addition which due to poor condition I got thrown in for free! It is on a revenue stamp - squared circle Kaapsche Hoop,

Image


I had not got a copy of this and have no idea on its use but have asked a transvaal collecting member here and will add any info he can provide,

Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

More good stuff from Lundy. Transvaal used these cancels on telegrams a lot (primarily?), as opposed to ordinary mail, so why not on revenue stamps?

http://www.postmarks.co.za/PH%20ZAR%20Joubrtskroon%20to%20Kraal.htm doesn't indicate much (using Putzel as a source).
Van den Hurk in Transvaal Philatelist from 1993 has the dates as 5.12.89? - 11.1.01.

so LRD? Maybe, but a 20 y.o. source on a topic not well pursued by the Study Group (to date).

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Thanks so much again Moloch,

Great to get more information on these, I have enjoyed finding them and at the weekend picked up a part strike of Hackney, British Guiana which I had not got a copy of and a pretty good strike of Darliston, Jamaica, which I think is not an easy one to find also!

Will scan shortly, bit I also stumbled on this great Jamaica Squared circles resource with all the offices which may be helpful to others:

http://www.jamaicaphilately.info/Postmark_Types/SQC/Atmore_Squared-Circle.pdf

Thanks again, I may even try and scan some of my other ones

Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Micky »

Hi guys anything of interest with this one?

Image

Michael

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Rembang, Semarang, and Weltevreden are all common with multiple hammers.
Could be that one is an ERD or LRD (the worn Weltevreden is worth checking).
Look up the Vierkant link at http://www.studiegroep-zwp.nl/

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Micky »

Interesting website, thanks moloch :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by xanthorrea »

In agreeing with Micky, it is an interesting thread, I shall have to browse among my squared circles for additions.
Collects India to 1947, 1911 Coronation Durbar, British Empire, worldwide postal history, Australia used on cover and anything else interesting. I'll think of something more inspiring one day.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Micky »

Hi all, I believe this is Bhaptiahi, not on any list that I can see here, then again I may be sleepy :roll: .

Anyone able to assist?
Image


Cheers
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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by patg »

Shown elsewhere. Fits here too. :D

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Best to all,
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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Micky wrote:Hi all, I believe this is Bhaptiahi, not on any list that I can see here, then again I may be sleepy :roll: .

Anyone able to assist?
Image


Cheers
Micky
Our colleague on this thread Mattia has an India list here (of unknown vintage):
https://thesquaredcirclepostmarksworldwide.ca/other-docs.html
I think your identification is correct, and it is not on that list that I can tell, so you may have one not previously identified.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Micky »

I am pretty happy with the news, thanks moloch. That may raise the price a little from the 20cents I spent on it :mrgreen:

Micky

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Micky »

I checked the town name, all I found was very small town no other information.

Micky
Last edited by Micky on 25 Jan 2015 19:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Micky »

Don't you hate it when it repeats the post, sorry. :oops: silly iPad

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

A couple from Perak I picked up

Gopeng and Kurau the latter only seemed to open in 1895 so pretty early strike

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Nice. Your text suggests you have a list of towns and dates of usage for the Malaya/Perak squares.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Micky »

I have noticed italianstamps hasn't been on line for a while, hope all is okay.

Last visited SB in September.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Micky »

Hi, I noticed on the list for India there is Baroda and Baroda City, is there such cancel for baroda camp? I Know of normal cd cancels but no SC.

Micky

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Micky »

Micky wrote:Hi, I noticed on the list for India there is Baroda and Baroda City, is there such cancel for baroda camp? I Know of normal cd cancels but no SC.

Micky
Time ran out on auction so I grabbed it for $1.10. I will show it when ever it arrives.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by traralgon3844 »

Flipping through some Italy postcard cutouts tonight, I came across these two.

Enjoy.

Cene.

Image

Can you work this one out?

Image
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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by manfaefife »

This one's been mentioned on this and other threads, but I thought it was a rather good one of Girgaon, Bombay.
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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by honza »

traralgon3844 wrote:
Can you work this one out?

Image
Ahoj there traralgon3844!

There seem to be two postmarks at different angles, which make it confusing.

One seems to be Swiss with Briefpost (Letter Post) at the bottom. Could it be Winterthur for a wild guess?

Could the Italian squared circle be RESIA in South Tyrol? It doesn't seem long enough though.

Two wild guesses are better than nothing, I suppose. :D

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

A nice new item I got in a bigger purchase. A big official document tied by Pieve Santo Stefano/Arezzo squared circles. These are RF 6 in Gaggero, so fairly scarce and the cover cost 5 Euro, so I bought the cover (I couldn't read the other cancels in the scans from the dealer, but I was optimistic). It is addressed to Santa Fiora in Grosseto province.

Well it got there - see the 13/8/05 backstamp on the bottom scan. Another nice RF 6 cancel. Not before it transited through (I believe) Santa Fiora/Arezzo (the A is clear and looks like a Z) on 10/?/05 on the top scan. If it isn't, it's a different Santa Fiora strike from Grosseto (the orientation of the S and A, and the spacing between these letters and the separating dot is different). And a Santa Fiora/Arezzo cancel is unlisted in Gaggero. Either way, 2 cancels from a common town name from 2 provinces or 2 different strikes from the same town is pretty cool.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

A couple of Italian postcards I picked up,

First has Vimercate, Milano and Ballabia Inferiore squared circle cancels

Second has Massa, Marina Di Massa and Firenze cancels

Image

I know nothing about them, but assume they are all common...

Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by 21B »

Here's one from Minehead, 1906.

Image

It's not in great shape, however if it's of interest to anyone who collects I'd be happy to pop it in the post at no cost.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Lundy wrote:A couple of Italian postcards I picked up,

First has Vimercate, Milano and Ballabia Inferiore squared circle cancels

Second has Massa, Marina Di Massa and Firenze cancels

Image


I know nothing about them, but assume they are all common...

Lundy :D
I'm starting to think Lundy that you have a knack for this. Ballabia Inferiore is RF 6 in Gaggero. The small Como lettering compared to the town is interesting, and why? It's not like Como is a long name.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Thanks Moloch,

More luck than judgement! Nice to know it is a better cancel :D

Here is one from India I just bought, Howrah Ry Station Late Fee Paid

Image


Lundy :D

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Joy Daschaudhuri
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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Joy Daschaudhuri »

Lundy wrote: Image
This Haora Railway Station LATE FEE PAID squared circle cancellation dt. April 22,1888 on Br. India 1883 1R Vic. slate typograph (SG 101) is a Railway Mail Service postmark of Haora RS RMS Stationary Sorting Office (RMS Stationary Offices were renamed Mail Offices in 1891), applied at Haora on a late postal artcle (most likely parcel) to be sent thru C-54 Stationary Stg. Section of C Division of Haora (est. 1875).

This very LATE FEE PAID cancellation type with thick corner bars was introduced in 1887 following the Railway Mail Service Handbook 1887 (2nd Edition) to St. Stg. Offices where late fee was imposed, but this mark is found to be used only till 1892.

From July 1887, all RMS Sections were numbered viz., Traveling Sections from 1 to 24, Traveling Closed Mail Sections from 25 to 49, Stationary Sorting Sections from 50 to 74 and Stationary Closed Mail Sections from 75 upwards but numbering of Mail Offices stopped in 1907.

The Late Letters were first defined in 1854 as the letters posted at the post office after the fixed time for posting of mail for a specific dispatch but before the mail was actually sent out in that dispatch.
A late fee was levied on the late postal article if the sender desired that the article be sent in that very dispatch.

This was made more specific in Rule 47: Late Letters, of the Indian Postal Manual 1873 in Section II: Inland Post, that late letters were to be received at PO if posted within 15 minutes before a specific dispatch and such letters were to be forwarded only if the normal postages were fully prepaid and late fees were levied.

From 1866, late fees were mandatorily paid in the form of postage stamps on the postal articles, replacing the earlier practice of paying it in cash.

But, from September 1886, late fee was only charged on articles where the busy traffic escalated the cost of transportation for the post office.

From 1887, there was a uniform late fee of ½A for any postal article posted at a post office or in letter boxes in Traveling Section RMS rail cars or in St. Stg. Offices.

But here the LATE FEE PAID postmark was applied on 1R stamp and on at least another stamp (there is another light strike of the same canc. in the upper left corner of the stamp).

This was done because the sender affixed the 1R stamp among others, most likely on a parcel posted at Haora RS to fully pay the parcel postage and the late fee before the parcel was accepted to be dispatched by the C-54 Section and all stamps affixed on the it were thus cancelled with the LATE FEE PAID cancellation.

Haora RS was (and still is) the largest Railway Station in India which handled the largest volume of RMS mail and yet Haora RS Late Fee Paid RMS squared circular cancellations are not common as most preferred to send the mail without paying the late fee as prepayment of which was optional.

This stamp has a minor foxing spot in the upper right corner but it is a good example of clean Haora RS Late Fee Paid cancellation.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Thanks for the write up on the Late Fee Paid cancellation. Very informative.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Thanks Joy,

Amazing detail and I learnt a lot there, so thank you

Will have to scan a couple of others I have.

Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

A few interesting FMS ones

First a great strike of kuala Langsar

Image


Lundy :D

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