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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Szykney »

tonymacg wrote:I'm not sure if this Gwalior type strictly qualifies as a squared circle:

Image
.
Either way, it's a nice cancel.
Tony S.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

no more contributions?

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

this is a question for Lundy
so can I add Kuruman and Beaconsfield to your list of CapeProvince Post Offices?
After you sent me your list I have been able to identify a Mafeking and a Willington in my stamp collection,thanks.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Hi there,

Sorry was away with work yesterday.

Indeed, Kuruman and Beaconsfield can be added to the list.

I will scan some of my other squared circles from other countries tomorrow if I get the chance

All the best

Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Ah, but here is one I already had a scan off which I like from Italy

Image

Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

thanks this is a nice one from Iglesias (Sardinia). This one is relatively common,scale 3 out of 10,Gaggero catalogue.In general Sardinia postmarks are rarer than rest of Italy.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Thanks very much for the additional information, I am sure others will also find it helpful being aware of the Gaggero reference.

Having looked through my Italian stamps it seems clear cancels are not very common but here are a few I found:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I forgot I have some old postcards at my mum and dad's so will have a look for them and see if there are any when I go at the weekend.

Next, I will show some from the Dutch Indies, as ever any information gratefully received

Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Well, here are the better strikes of Dutch Indies I have, hope they are of interest:
Cheribon
Image

Buitenzorg
Image

Sekalong
Image

Semarang
Image

Japara
Image

Pekalongan
Image

Poerwakarta
Image

Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Lundy »

Last few:

Tega?
Image

Bindjet
Image

Medan
Image

Kendal
Image

Image


Image

Weltevreden
Image

Makassa
Image

Lundy :D

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by tonymacg »

Lundy wrote:Well, here are the better strikes of Dutch Indies I have, hope they are of interest:

Sekalong
Image

Lundy :D
I think this is almost certainly Pekalongan (again).
de Selby lives, and will return

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by tonymacg »

Lundy wrote:Last few:

Tega?
Image

Tegal

Bindjet
Image

Medan
Image

Kendal
Image

Indramajoe:

Image

Djokjakarta:

Image

Weltevreden
Image

Makassa(r?)
Image


Lundy :D
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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

on the Italian ones they are
Caramanico 4 points
Canneto-Lipari 5 points
Alba n 1 Viale Moretta 3 points
Sciacca 1 point
Gazzada 5 points

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

some comments on the neth indies
for me the first one is also Pekalongan
Tegal is in Java
Bindjei in Sumatra
Makasser in Celebes

Hope this helps
Mattia

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

looking for some expert opinion on India

I have been told that a Chandor Bazar postmark is from Portuguese India
for me this is not correct as there is a Chandor Bazar in central India, I can only find a Chandor in Portuguese India and I have no record of a Squared Circle Postmark there.
Any suggestion?

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

Image
here is the picture of the Chandor Bazar postmark mentioned in my previous message

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

The best listing of the countries that used these postmarks is
"Squared Circle Postmarks Used Outside Great Britain - An Overview" by Curt Nicolaus Fernau. It was published by the Great Britain & Commonwealth Philatelic Society (Switzerland). It's not perfect, it misses countries that only have one or two.

And there's info on the internet.
Jamaica - http://www.jamaicaphilately.info/35_PH-Location/352_Marking-Types/11_SQC/SQC_Atmore.html
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/76014035/Stamp-Collecting---The- ... of-Jamaica
Northern Rhodesia - http://www.spanglefish.com/gervasclay/index.asp?pageid=158952

Your country list is missing Transvaal and North Borneo.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

you are right.I missed Transvaal,I did not know about North Borneo.Do you have any pictures of postmarks in these two countries?
thanks
Mattia

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Rackrunner »

Not a very good strike so maybe a bit of a challenge for italianstamps to identify.

Paul

Image

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

not too difficult ,it is a Palermo Ferrovia, quite common
Mattia

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Sandakan sq. cir. on cover
Image

Tenom is the other North Borneo sq. cir. I know of. I've sighted it far less frequently than Sandakan.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Transvaal. They fall into 3 broad categories.

1. Look like other Dutch Colony types (Dutch Indies, Dutch Antilles, Suriname).
Here's one from Rustenburg.
Image

2. Look like cruder version of British/British Colony types.
Here's one from Pretoria, with a Ficksburg OVS squared octagon.
The Johannesburg one of this type is fairly common.
Image

3. And a type used later on with a straightline date.
This is one from Johannesburg (in blue).
Image

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

that's great thanks
do you have a list of the known postmarks for transvaal/ south africa?
instead for north borneo I understand there are only those two?
thanks
Mattia

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Sorry. I can go through what's been listed so far and add to it. I noticed a few I can add to the CoGH already posted.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by opkedia52 »

Does anyone have list of Indian postoffices using square circle cancellations. I have several and I may add to the list.

opkedia

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

I have a list. I will put it up a bit at a time as it is a long one

Agra
Ahmedabad
Ahmednagar
Ajmere
Alipur
Allahabad City
Amirabad Lucknow
Ammapet
Apollo Bandar Bombay
Aurangabad
Baipara Darang
Bangalore
Bangalore Bazar
Bangalore Fort
Bangalore Ry Stn
Bara-Bazar
Bareilly
Baroda
Baroda City
Barthana
Bassein
Bassmin Thana
Ballary
Bhiwani
Bhowanipore Calcutta
Bindk
Bokakhat
Bombay
Bombay GPO
Bombay Market
Bombay S
Bombay Umarkhadi
Bori Bandar Ma
Bori Bunder
Brindabin Muttra
Bulandshahar
Byculla Bombay
Calcutta
Calcutta ins
Calcutta reg
Calicut
Chandausi
Chandor Bazar
Chauk Carnpor
Chauk Luknow
Chikhlu Surat
Chopda
Coconada
Cochin
Coimbatore
Colaba Bombay
Cuttak
Delhi Gate Ahmedabad
Dera IsmailKhan
Dharmsala
Dhulia
Diamond Harbour
Ellichpur
Englishman Press
Esplanade Bombay
Etawau
Fategarh
Fatehpur
Ferozepur
Fyzabad City
Ghum
Girgaon Bombay
Goalpara
Golden Tlmpll
Hajelpore
Hissar
Hubli
Hyderabad Decuan
In Set no. B
Jalgaon
Jamad Kashmir
Japur Ratnagira
Jhansi
Kalok N Gujerat
Kamptee
Karachi
Katgodown
Kayalpatnam
Khada Bazar Belgaum
Kohat
Koilpati
Kosi
Kottayam
Kumbhir Cachar
Lahore
Lingsugur
Lonavla
Lucknow
Macercoil
Madras
Mahabaleshwar
Mahiganj
Malabar Hill Bombay
Mandvi Bombay
Mangalore
Manova Kathiavar
Mansurnagar lucknow
Market Bombay
Marwar Junction
Matigiri
Mayanaguri
Mazgaon Bombay
Medha Satara
Meerut Kutchery
Mirzapur City
Moolky
Moradabad
Moriani
Mount Road
Mumbadevi Bombay
Murree
Muzafarnagar
Nainital
Nakachari
Nokachari
Nutongang Burdwin
Ootacamund (in tamil Nadu)
Palampur
Parel Park st Calcutta
Paud
Poona (M.A. Poona)
Princes Dock Bombay
Puttur South Canara
Quettya

I am stopping here for the time being.Will add a second list as soon as I can

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

here is a second India list
Rajkot
Rajapur Banda
Ranchi
Rangoon
Ranigaj Burdwin
Rawalpindi
Rawalpindi Katchery
Rosa
Royal exchange Calcutta
Salaya
Salem
Samalkot
Sambhar
Sardaghat Chittagong
Sealdah Calcutta
Secretariat Buildings (location unknown)
Secunderabad Deccan
Shamatganj Bareill
Shaganj
Sheogarh
Shikapur Sind
Shillong
Sholapur
Shukraua Peth Poona
Simla
Sirsa Katra
Tigyaing
Tikam Garh
Tinsuria
Tardeo Bombay
Tanjore
Tellicherry
Titagarh
Tranquebar
Umballa
Vaduj
Vankaner
Veraval
Victoria terminus Bombay
Visnagar
Wellesley st Calcutta

have also an unclassified one: Thaye.....
Also Guadur (Pakistan) should go in this list.


Railway
Akola Ry stn
Baltair stn
Bangalore ry stn
Bori Bandar ma
Bhusaval ma
Calcutta par
Coimbatore ry stn
Dhamangaon ry
Mail Guard Dibrugarh
Ma Englishman press
Gadag ry stn
Grant road ry stn
Howrah rso or Rms Howrah/rso
Howrah ry stn late fee paid
Hubly ry stn
Hyderabad ry stn
Mail agent kulna
Medha Satara
Meerut City ry stn
Meerut ry stn
New Bazar poona
MA Poona
Press Sorter RMS
Rawalpindi RRO
Surat MA
Tpo Grant Road ry stn Bombay
B78
C54 Howrah Ry Stn Late Fee Pai
L 50


Field Post Offices

AGG's Camp Pajputana
Burmese Field Sub PO
Bellary Cantonment
Berilly Artillery Bazar
FPO n2,3,5,7,,9,10,11,12,14
NWP GOVT Camp PO
Trichur Cannt
Upper Burma Field PO

Ships
Bombay Karachi Sea Post Office
Steamer Ghat Dibrugarh

Indian States
- Gwalior
Lashkar
Morar

- Jheend
Sangrur

- Nabha
Nabha (3 types)

- Patiala
Patiala
Pattiala

-Jammu Kashmir
Srinagar
Jammu
Tavi Jammu MA

- Charkari State

-Orcha
Tikamgarh

- Jhairapatan

-Radhanpur

- Sirmoor
Sirmoor State Nahan
Sirmoor State Paonta
Sirmoor State Rainka


Used Abroad

- Aden
Aden
Aden Camp
Aden Cantonment

-Bahrain

- Burma
I do not have a list
I have only

Rangoon
Kyaukpyu st
Sanoway

-French India (never seen one)
Chandanagore
Karikal
Pondicherry
Yanam

Iran

Bandar-Abas
Bushire
Jask
Linga
Mahommera

-Irak
Baghdad
Basra or Busrah


-Muscat


-Nepal (never seen one)

-Portuguese India
I have a seller claiming that his Chandor Bazar is from Portuguese India?

-Zanzibar
Chwaka
Mkoan
Mkokotoni
Weti
Zanzibar

I am not sure if they were also used in east Africa like other Indian postmarks (Lamu/Mombasa?)


that's all what I have
any addition or correction is welcome

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Re: Zanzibar - Zanzibar has an India type, the rest (and a later Zanzibar) have British type squared circle cancels.

Chwaka - I saw that in Fernau's book (but have never seen it personally), and wondered if he meant Chakichaki. That one I have. It's a big difference in number of letters though.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

CoGH - Could it be what was identified as 13 The Strand might be Somerset Strand (that one I have)?
Additional ones offhand:
Somerset East
Dordrecht
Prieska
Molteno
Burghesdorp
Molteno
Capetown NPB (there's 2 types of this one, and of others)

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Chandernagore (French India)
Image

Nepal
Image

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by opkedia52 »

From Burma with square circle cancellation

Image
opkedia

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

all very beautiful pieces.I have added them to my photographic library

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Suriname ID question (I think mainly aimed at Frank_King)
Image

This partial strike seems to "Surin". From my list of Suriname towns, it could only be:
Boven Suriname I
Boven Suriname II
Suriname-Britsch-Guijana

It is not the latter (I have it, and the lettering is small and tight), and the other 2 I think would suffer from that problem. It also looks like this strike would start with Suriname, not appear later in the strike, given the orientation of the date.

Does Erfmann and Stuut have pictures of the various town strikes? This strike would look like Suriname alone, and I'm just a little suspicious it's fake. Or is my list not complete?

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Frank_King »

moloch wrote:Suriname ID question (I think mainly aimed at Frank_King)
Image

This partial strike seems to "Surin". F
Regretfully, it is a forgery, both cancel and stamp. Here are my own copies, which I had bought in good faith. :oops:


Image

Between the four copies, you can put together a pretty complete cancel.

Why is this a forgery? The main problem is the date: 29/4/1892. Squared circle cancels were not issued to Suriname until 1902, so this is 10 years too early. Also there never was a cancel with text "SURINAME" only.

The stamp is quite a good (i.e. dangerous) forgery. The main problem is the perforations, which are line, rather than comb as they should be. The forger took care to make it look like comb, though, but screwed up on the 40 cent as it is one perforation hole too wide. Also the colour is slightly off.

This forgery is not in my book on forgeries, but is briefly discussed in Netherlands Philately, volume 4.2, page 28 (1978).

The book by Erfmann and Stuut does show pictures of all the squared circle cancels.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Thanks for the confirmation. It was one item in a fairly large collection in which the Suriname Britisch Guijana & Nickerie square circles on postal stationary was the main reason for the purchase.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Frank_King »

moloch wrote:Thanks for the confirmation. It was one item in a fairly large collection in which the Suriname Britisch Guijana & Nickerie square circles on postal stationary was the main reason for the purchase.
I, too, have had to buy collections for some of these cancels. I look forward to seeing scans of the above.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

On card. I also got both of these on individual stamps (the Nickerie on a due):
Image

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

a very nice piece

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by Frank_King »

moloch wrote:On card. I also got both of these on individual stamps (the Nickerie on a due):
Image
A little information about this card. The ss Curacao was scheduled to depart Paramaribo Friday 8 December 1905 at 2 pm, destined for Nickerie and Demerara. The post card would have been posted directly on board, otherwise it would have received a Paramaribo cancel.

I am not sure why it was postmarked at Nickerie. I would have thought that it would go through to Demerara and catch a ship to Plymouth from there. Still, according to Erfmann and Stuut, the vast majority of such pieces do have a Nickerie postmark.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

It's great we have someone on the thread knowledgeable about Suriname. It's time to see if we have someone knowledgeable about Brazil. My suspicion is that Brazilian squared circles are philatelic in nature. I have two different items circa 1940s - did they exist during the 1880-1910s when the bulk of the worldwide usage occurred?

First, the one that we see with the Italianstamps posts. I have 3 of these - it's on Belem-Leopoldville Congo flight covers. All of mine are Dec. 1941.
Image
Image

The second was at an agricultural exhibition:
Image

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

I had never seen the postmark of Bage',very interesting.
Concerning Belem,I have been able to get a few with different dates.My covers show usage from 1937 to 1947 (no earlier date than that). The 1947 postmark date cannot be read but it is on a cover where the arrival postmarks in USA are of August 1947.I have a few letters which are commercial letters so I am sure its usage was also non philatelic.But at the same time there was another standard postmark in use (not squared circle) and I cannot tell when they were using one or the other.And also for some reason the covers from end 1941 are much more easy to find than any other dates.I have not been able to find any literature on these postmarks till now

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Italianstamps - thanks for the info. Brazil is even more of a mystery with legitimate, late usage rather than just philatelic usage that I had assumed before.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by kushti »

Here's a couple of mucky ones from the Transvaal, and a nice clean one from Curacao, p'marked 96
Image

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

the second one should be Johannesburg but the first one?
thanks for the additions

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

Moloch, with the help of a friend of mine I managed to get a cover with Bage' postmark.But it was not easy to find.Only from a Brasilian seller who refused to sell outside Brasil so we had to use a connection in Rio to buy it from him.Since then I have only found another one for sale at a fairly high price,which I did not buy.I would expect there aren't too many around

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moloch
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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Congrats on the Bage. Didn't pay much for mine, but haven't seen one since. Found a couple of Belem-Para non-Dec 1941, and scooped up a Bonaire (one of the Dutch Antilles hammers) on card along with them.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

congrats on Bonaire and the Belem non 1941 ones, also not easy to find. If at any time you have some spare ones,let me know, we may have the possibility to trade. Mattia

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

Italian hotel squared circles. I believe these are private in origin, but most often are coloured cancels (in various colors, purple seems the commenest),usually dated, and sometimes have the proprietor of the hotel in the cancel. These are not listed in Gaggero (the Italian squared circle book), so I don't know what to make of them. I have a dozen or so on postcard.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

yes these are private postmarks and as such are not included in the Gaggero catalogue.I also have a private one from the Milano expo which has been applied next to the official expo postmark.I keep them in my collection as a curiosity but I have no information on them and am unable to give them a commercial value of any type.

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by moloch »

No new messages for a while in this thread. Here`s a favourite cover of mine - two stamps, tied by 2 squared circles from 2 different countries (Cape of Good Hope and GB), because of a redirect from England to France (too bad it wasn`t Italy, but I guess that would be asking too much). The cancels alone aren`t difficult, but finding 2 on same cover or card...

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Re: Worldwide squared circle postmarks

Post by italianstamps »

this is a unique piece, very nice.I agree with you almot impossible to find another one...

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