The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by briggia »

Thanks Andrea - I wonder as Banbridge is in the North, near Belfast, it must have been quite a coach ride from Dublin.....
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

For the catalogue prices of the regional Maltese crosses where are people getting that information from ? Is it in the Queen Victoria Specialised ?
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

Rog wrote:For the catalogue prices of the regional Maltese crosses where are people getting that information from ? Is it in the Queen Victoria Specialised ?
In general, yes. Although the "Specialised" only lists a few of the truly distinctive crosses (e.g. Coventry, Norwich, York, Dublin, etc...) - about 20/30 if memory serves as I do not have a copy of the catalogue immediately to hand.

Chris.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

Thank you Chris.
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

You are most welcome.

Now I have my "specialised" in front of me, the full list of distinctive crosses priced is:

Alexandria
Belfast
Biggar
Brighton
Channel Is
Cork
Coventry
Darlington
Dublin
Dumfries
Eyrecourt
Greenock
Hollymount
Kelso
Kilmarnock
Leamington
Leeds
Limerick
London
Manchester
Montrose
Mullingar
Norwich
Perth
Ross
Settle
Stirling
Stonehaven
Stranraer
Tadcaster
Tallow
Welshpool
Wotton under Edge
York

It should be noted that these are only for the distinctive or special crosses associated with these Post Towns, which often had a very short period of usage, and not for the normal crosses that were in use for the majority of the four years.

Chris.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

Great thanks again, I'll have to borrow my Dad's catalogue then. I have Dublin, Norwich and Greenock so far.
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by DaveR »

I've been, on and off, studying my accumulation of 2d Blues, and was studying this one - trying to work out the differences between Plate 3 and Plate 4, with the information that the Maltese Cross cancellation is very rare on Plate 4.
Image
When I suddenly realised, that if you turn the stamp upside down -
Image
Its a London Maltese Cross - No. 12 :D
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

Haha, easy to miss on first glance.

I have a couple of MXs on this blue, not sure what plate they are - is the information you are researching from available online by any chance ?
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by DaveR »

Hi Rog.

I've put details of the books that I've found on the 2d Blue plating thread - http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=55307&p=4582164#p4582164

Have fun - Dave.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by tomiseksj »

This is one of the more complete strikes of the few that I have.
Image
Steve Tomisek,
American Philatelic Society #130102 - State Revenue Society #1570

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

DaveR wrote:Hi Rog.

I've put details of the books that I've found on the 2d Blue plating thread - http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=55307&p=4582164#p4582164

Have fun - Dave.
Perfect, thanks a lot :)
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

Since I mentioned them, here's two Dublins and a Norwich. The Greenock I posted back a few pages. What I know about the Norwich is that there were two MXs, this one served the shortest time. The other one was more like the common MX.

Dublin (Blued Paper)

Image

Dublin

Image

Norwich (Blued Paper)

Image
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by souldjer777 »

Good Morning,

Here is what I have to share...

07 - Plate 35
Image

08 - Plate 35
Image

09 - Plate 24
Image

10 - Plate 34
Image

11 - Plate 38
Image

12 - Plate 33
Image

TC - Plate 14
Image

PF - Plate 24 (Picture 01)
Image

PF - Plate 24 (Picture 02)
Image

Thanks!

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Ghost07 »

My latest purchase .... Plate 25 with Blue Maltese Cross cancellation.

Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by phrag99 »

Ghost, I am trying to be educated on British Victorian stamps because I have never collected them until recently. So please accept this as a question from ignorance and not because I am trying to be smart (or worse).

What makes this a blue cancel? It just looks like a faded black cancel on a faded 1d stars to me. The cross appears black at the top and various shades of grey elsewhere. There are patches of what could be considered a bluish tinge on The Queen's bust, I think. Is this enough to make this a blue cancel?

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Ghost07 »

Hi Phrag99,

I'm not really sure how to answer your question as quite frankly I don't have enough technical knowledge to help. My identification is done purely from sight, I guess if you see enough of them you can train your eye. I have colour enhanced my copy and from that you can clearly see the blue cross.

Image

Condition also is important as my stamp would be considered a fine copy in the current condition of the blue cross and the one below, clearly a more obvious blue cross, would be considered very fine.

Image

I'm sorry I can't be of any more assistance but if you wish to add a colour cancellation and are a little unsure, always buy from a reputable dealer ,

Kind regards and thanks

Mike

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

If it helps, one from my "too many cancellations" collection:

Image

This is cancelled with the blue Maltese Cross of Guisborough and then overstruck later with a black Maltese Cross.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Cullen »

Hi all.
Just discovered this thread. I've always wanted a 1d black on cover although most of my interests are in 20th century areas. Anyway, here is my offering:
Image

It was posted in the small hamlet of Cullivoe on the island of Yell, Shetland and sent to Lerwick on the Shetland "mainland" island.
Image

Any technical information on it would be most appreciated.
Regards
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by emason »

A couple of recent bargains.

left - Brighton Mx . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . right - Leeds Mx
Image
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Cross posting one I popped onto the "Socked on the nose" thread:

Image

This is a 1d deep red-brown on blued paper (plate 14) socked on the nose by both a red and a black maltese cross.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

To keep the above stamp company...

Image

1d red plate 15 cancelled by both red and black maltese crosses. Also just touched by a Bradford CDS which is relatively rare.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Image

1d Black, Plate 6 cancelled with red and black maltese crosses. This was sent from Marsden to London and is dated on the back 3rd May 1841.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Image

1d red-brown plate 20 cancelled by both a black maltese cross and a watery purple maltese cross.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Image

A recent purchase... 1d black cancelled with a Magenta maltese cross and no.2 (receiving house) also in magenta. Additional red maltese cross applied in transit at Chepstow. Backstamped with red Chepstow and black Gloucester c.d.s.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Image

2d pale blue plate 2 sent from Taunton to Esher dated Nov 29 1842.
Two strikes of a watery brownish maltese cross with "Minehead Penny Post" in the same colour.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Image

2d blue plate 1 cancelled by two strikes of a purplish brown maltese cross.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Image

This is a 2d blue plate 1 on piece from Drogheda to the Stamp Office in Dublin. Cancelled with 5 bright red maltese crosses of Drogheda. Someone really wanted to make sure this one was cancelled!

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by honza »

Ahoj everyone!

This Maltese Cross on a 1d rose stationery envelope seems quite distinctive.

Image

Image

Is it one of those identified as different?

Cheers,

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Re: The Maltese Cross Thread

Post by Global Administrator »

Looking through this thread I saw this scary offering!
Global Administrator wrote:
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I saw this shocker unsold at Prestige for $4,000 this week.

It had an alleged Cert as 'unused'

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I'd pay not more than a $100 personally as a bleached to oblivion disaster IMHO .. looks to STILL have traces of red ink on there!
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

Either that or worn plate and thus the 'grey-black' variety.

It does look like there is some discolouration though.
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by emason »

honza wrote:This Maltese Cross on a 1d rose stationery envelope seems quite distinctive. Is it one of those identified as different?
Hello honza,
It looks like a common cross to me. The apparently 'distinctive' appearance is due to it being slightly smudged, thus distorting it.
Best wishes,
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by honza »

Ahoj Bill!

Thank you for your expertise. I think the embossing alters its appearance as well.

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by emason »

honza wrote:I think the embossing alters its appearance as well.
Well, it doesn't help. :)
Whenever a maltese cross is applied over an uneven surface, particularly packages and parcels, distortion to a greater or lesser extent occurs.
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

Picked up these two over the weekend. Would anyone else say if they think they are Scottish MXs please ?
Image

Image
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by emason »

Hello Rog,
I think they are both common crosses.

These are Scottish crosses:
Image
I have found that most non distinctive mxs described as Scottish are usually one of the six types from Edinburgh. The three illustrated above are (from L-R) Edinburgh types 2, 5 and 6.

In general (and there are always exceptions), the points to look for in a Scottish mx are:
1. The outer cross loops tend to resemble 'coves' rather than indents.
2. The outer cross sides tend to be straight ish.
3. The central diamond is often (but not always) quite small - almost squarish at times.
3. The whole cross appears slightly smaller and 'neater' than a common cross.

As is often the case, the more you see the easier it becomes to distinguish between Scottish and common crosses.
Best wishes,
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

Thanks for getting me up to speed Bill.

And yes the fist thing that I notice is they look slightly more compact than usual. Also the smaller centre diamond.

More learning to do :D
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by emason »

Hello again Rog,
I have just remembered that I posted this over two years ago. You may find it useful as a reference for Edinburgh crosses.
emason wrote:The six types of Edinburgh Mx.
Top row Types 1-3
Bottom Types 4-6
Image
Best wishes,
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

Brilliant, thanks a lot :D

I see what you mean about the 'coves' now too.
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by souldjer777 »

Good Morning,

Looking for a plate identification on this maltese cross cancelled stamp - pretty poor cancel - probably not numbered. BUT, if you can determine the maltese cross number - that would fantastic too!

Thanks!

Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by souldjer777 »

STAMP ABOVE:
Hello souldjer777,

Your penny red 'F-L' is from plate 36 (10 o'clock ray flaw NW, 1 o'clock ray flaw NE, guide dot SE)

The maltese cross is a smudged common cross which doesn't have a number in it (only London crosses have them).

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BACK OF STAMP:

Image

STAMP ID:
G.B. 1941 #8,H (ivory head) ,L (Maltese Cross in black), Plate #36

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Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by collector_mike »

Hi,

First post, so go easy guys and gals...What do you think of this Maltese Cross??? You can see that it has these strange ridged edges on both sides of the cross, as well as on the inner cross too...is this from a particular place or town?

Or something to do with the application method of the cross? I have not found much on the internet, so any suggestions welcome...

btw, I have gone for the bigger image, which is a little blurred but I also have a smaller, slightly clearer image, that I can also post if you believe it would help..

Image

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Re: Strange maltese cross on my 2d Blue

Post by collector_mike »

here is the smaller one...hell, its free, so why not...
Image

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Re: Strange maltese cross on my 2d Blue

Post by parker1865 »

collector_mike wrote:here is the smaller one...hell, its free, so why not...
Image
Used from March 1843-May 1844. Had a large central # which was the office of origin.
I think Sandafayre has some in-depth info on this, IIRC. I have a few, the better one being a #3, which are not as readily available.

Hope this helps a little.

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Re: Strange maltese cross on my 2d Blue

Post by vikingeck »

parker1865 wrote:
collector_mike wrote:here is the smaller one...hell, its free, so why not...
Image
Used from March 1843-May 1844. Had a large central # which was the office of origin.
I think Sandafayre has some in-depth info on this, IIRC. I have a few, the better one being a #3, which are not as readily available.

Hope this helps a little.
Not in the least! Your comment is utterly baffling! and even incorrect!
. They were used from May 1840 not from 1843 !

and What "#" ? Do you mean a numeral ?

If that's what you refer to "The Numbers in cross" which are from London are completely different to what collector mike is asking and nothing to do with this >


However collector mike I really can't help with the striated appearance, sorry.

There are literally hundreds of Maltese crosses, a few have recognisable features and can be located with experience to some towns, only the London ones have Numerals in the centre, but the vast majority cannot be identified.
whatever it is -------it's better than a poke in eye with a wet umbrella !

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Re: Strange maltese cross on my 2d Blue

Post by parker1865 »

vikingeck wrote:
parker1865 wrote:
collector_mike wrote:here is the smaller one...hell, its free, so why not...
Image
Used from March 1843-May 1844. Had a large central # which was the office of origin.
I think Sandafayre has some in-depth info on this, IIRC. I have a few, the better one being a #3, which are not as readily available.

Hope this helps a little.
Not in the least! Your comment is utterly baffling! and even incorrect!
. They were used from May 1840 not from 1843 !

and What "#" ? Do you mean a numeral ?

If that's what you refer to "The Numbers in cross" which are from London are completely different to what collector mike is asking and nothing to do with this >


However collector mike I really can't help with the striated appearance, sorry.

There are literally hundreds of Maltese crosses, a few have recognisable features and can be located with experience to some towns, only the London ones have Numerals in the centre, but the vast majority cannot be identified.
Thank you for correcting me. I did not mean to disappoint you or mislead anyone, thus the reasons for stating Sandafayre as a source to check, IIRC. My catalog must be incorrect for that particular stamp with cross. The ones I possess must all be counterfeit then. Baffling, really, considering the pedigree and confirmation.

I am often incorrect. I don't mind being corrected at all, if the person is in fact correct. It helps me learn.

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Re: Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by gavin-h »

parker1865 wrote:The ones I possess must all be counterfeit then. Baffling, really, considering the pedigree and confirmation.

I am often incorrect. I don't mind being corrected at all, if the person is in fact correct. It helps me learn.
I certainly wouldn't conclude that you have a forgery there - it looks perfectly good to me.

With respect to parker1865, I think he's talking about the London numbered crosses, which this isn't because (a) it's lacking a number, (b) there's a small cross above the Maltese cross on those and (c) it would be highly unlikely that one of those was used on this 1840-issue 2d blue rather than the later 1841 issue with the thick white lines. Perhaps he'd confirm to end any potential confusion. :idea:

Looking at the Stanley Gibbons Queen Victoria Specialised catalogue, which provides illustrations of distinctive Maltese crosses, the only one shown with breaks in the outer and inner crosses is identified as from the town of Wooton-under-Edge although the breaks in the cross shown don't seem to match up with those on yours, so I'd say "inconclusive" on that.

But let's wait for the experts like CMJ, emason and Pertinax who have vastly more knowledge and experience in this field to have a look at this one, shall we?

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Re: Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by parker1865 »

To avoid confusion and misinterpretation, I am referring to the striations identifier.
I am also referring to my own as being possibly counterfeit, based on the reply of another member, not the stamp in the collector_mike post. I am not at all stating that the mike_collector stamp is counterfeit.

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Re: Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by CMJ »

To answer the OP, this is an unusual occurrence and I would suspect that rather than being a distinctive cross from an identifiable Post Town it is a one-off caused by something in or under the envelope the stamp was originally on when the cancellation was applied. I have certainly not seen anything like it before.

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Re: Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by CMJ »

gavin-h wrote: Looking at the Stanley Gibbons Queen Victoria Specialised catalogue, which provides illustrations of distinctive Maltese crosses, the only one shown with breaks in the outer and inner crosses is identified as from the town of Wooton-under-Edge although the breaks in the cross shown don't seem to match up with those on yours, so I'd say "inconclusive" on that.

But let's wait for the experts like CMJ, emason and Pertinax who have vastly more knowledge and experience in this field to have a look at this one, shall we?
And as suggested by gavin-h here is a very brief potted history of the Maltese Cross with some images that were quickly to hand. But don't get me started on this, I could go on, and on, and on, and on......

From May 1840 until February 1841 stamps were cancelled with Maltese Crosses using red ink

Image Image Image

In Febraury 1841, black ink was introduced at all Post Offices

Image Image Image

In March 1843, modified Maltese Crosses were introduced to the London Inland Office; this was the office that dealt with mail originating in London but destined for provincial English and Welsh Post Towns together with all of Scotland and Ireland. These new obliterators had the addition of a number (1-12) in the centre and, with the exception of the one numbered “3”, a small cross at the top. The earliest recorded use of a Numbered Maltese Cross is 16 March 1843, this being with a “3” in the centre.

Image Image

Maltese Crosses (and numbered ones) were replaced with numeral cancellations starting in May 1844.

And, finally here is an example of a Wotton-under-Edge cross

Image

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Re: Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by CMJ »

parker1865 wrote:To avoid confusion and misinterpretation, I am referring to the striations identifier.
I am also referring to my own as being possibly counterfeit, based on the reply of another member, not the stamp in the collector_mike post. I am not at all stating that the mike_collector stamp is counterfeit.
If you are uncertain about status of your stamp(s) or cancellations, post them for an opinion on the thread dedicated to all things Maltese Cross
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7561

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