The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

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Re: Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by parker1865 »

CMJ wrote:
parker1865 wrote:To avoid confusion and misinterpretation, I am referring to the striations identifier.
I am also referring to my own as being possibly counterfeit, based on the reply of another member, not the stamp in the collector_mike post. I am not at all stating that the mike_collector stamp is counterfeit.
If you are uncertain about status of your stamp(s) or cancellations, post them for an opinion on the thread dedicated to all things Maltese Cross
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7561
Thank you, but I think this is turning into a who is on first thing. I am not uncertain about the status of my stamp(s) or cancellations at all. I am not collector_mike, and I did not ask any questions. I do not and did not intend to confuse you or anybody else.

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Re: Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by DaveR »

parker1865 wrote:
CMJ wrote:
parker1865 wrote:To avoid confusion and misinterpretation, I am referring to the striations identifier.
I am also referring to my own as being possibly counterfeit, based on the reply of another member, not the stamp in the collector_mike post. I am not at all stating that the mike_collector stamp is counterfeit.
If you are uncertain about status of your stamp(s) or cancellations, post them for an opinion on the thread dedicated to all things Maltese Cross
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7561
Thank you, but I think this is turning into a who is on first thing. I am not uncertain about the status of my stamp(s) or cancellations at all. I am not collector_mike, and I did not ask any questions. I do not and did not intend to confuse you or anybody else.
Hi parker1865.

The Maltese Cross thread that CMJ is referring to is not just for asking questions - it's also for showing everybody else interesting things from your collection ...

A tutorial on how to post images - http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=53532

Welcome - Dave.

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Re: Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by parker1865 »

DaveR wrote:
parker1865 wrote:
CMJ wrote:
parker1865 wrote:To avoid confusion and misinterpretation, I am referring to the striations identifier.
I am also referring to my own as being possibly counterfeit, based on the reply of another member, not the stamp in the collector_mike post. I am not at all stating that the mike_collector stamp is counterfeit.
If you are uncertain about status of your stamp(s) or cancellations, post them for an opinion on the thread dedicated to all things Maltese Cross
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7561
Thank you, but I think this is turning into a who is on first thing. I am not uncertain about the status of my stamp(s) or cancellations at all. I am not collector_mike, and I did not ask any questions. I do not and did not intend to confuse you or anybody else.
Hi parker1865.

The Maltese Cross thread that CMJ is referring to is not just for asking questions - it's also for showing everybody else interesting things from your collection ...

A tutorial on how to post images - http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=53532

Welcome - Dave.
Thank you, and once I am acclimated here and have learned the ropes and worked on not confusing members, I will do so if I have anything of interest.
Thank you again fro the courteous welcome.

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Re: Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by vikingeck »

So to summarise all the above,

Collector mike has an 1840 Cancel in RED with some unusual (possibly freak) striations which may be caused by some thing in the letter , whatever it is, it is not from Wotton-under Edge or any so far identified town. CMJ has a wealth of experience in these issues.

Parker has some similar stamps with numerals in the MC, which presumably must be in BLACK ink, from the London Office from 1843-1844. The Numeral "3" is quite genuine, as numbers 1-12 exist. He need have no concern about "counterfeit", that was not suggested.

The majority of such cancels will be on Penny reds but will also be found on twopenny blues

Most MCs have no number.
whatever it is -------it's better than a poke in eye with a wet umbrella !

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Re: Strange Maltese cross on my GB 2d Blue

Post by Global Administrator »

collector-mike - do you have a scanner?

Adding SHARP scans here really helps when asking these kind of detailed questions.

What you had was a tiny, fuzzy, thumbnail scan that you blew up. That does NOT make it sharper! As you can see - and do remember images may be up to 900 size here -
Image

Image
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Global Administrator »

Badu wrote:Image

This is a 2d blue plate 1 on piece from Drogheda to the Stamp Office in Dublin. Cancelled with 5 bright red maltese crosses of Drogheda. Someone really wanted to make sure this one was cancelled!
Unbelieveable! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Looks like even more than five strikes?
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by parker1865 »

A slightly off topic comment, but it seems to me it would be appropriate for commenting in this Thread.

I want to acknowledge and thank the member that uploaded an avatar for me. I had been contemplating for a few days what to use, and had settled on either a stickman image drawn by a certain child or Commissioner Parker. The final choice had the stickman in the lead, but not settled. My procrastination has been ended by the kind act of the member that solved my choice problem.

I suspect who the member is, based on the avatar used.

I enjoy satire, and subtlety and humor and find it an appropriate choice in this instance.

It would have been nice to have been asked, but no harm and no foul. After all, I was not exactly timely in completing the required chore.

Again, to the member that did so, your courtesy is appreciated.

I note that the avatar does not exhibit striations, though. :wink:

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

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You have had a visit by the avatar fairy. Look at the lovely avatar I got. To thank her go to this link.
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by johnrcrow »

Just browsing here and wondering whether the I.T Pickering collection, ´The Maltese Cross` has been highlighted.

http://philatelics.org/~allan/shrop/Pickering/p1.html

A fantastic display of all that is Maltese cross.

The .pdf file below is a little better for close examination.

http://www.philatelicsannex.org/reference/pickering.pdf

Sorry if this is old news but well worth looking at.

John

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Regulations re GB multiple Maltese Cross Cancellations?

Post by MrBeagle »

I've seen references that indicate the use of more than one Maltese Cross strike on a single penny black or red was contrary to regulations. Is this true?

If so, can anyone cite the administrative circular or notice establishing the regulation?

The number of examples seems to indicate any such order was not closely followed.

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Re: Multiple Maltese Cross Cancellations

Post by pertinax »

MrBeagle wrote:I've seen references that indicate the use of more than one Maltese Cross strike on a single penny black or red was contrary to regulations. Is this true? If so, can anyone cite the administrative circular or notice establishing the regulation? The number of examples seems to indicate any such order was not closely followed.
The answer is no, it isn't true!

It's simply a tool used by some to elevate the importance/value/interest of their item.

The regulation was that stamps were to be cancelled 'individually', meaning for example one strike could not be used to cancel two stamps.

This is not the same thing as not being allowed to put more than one strike on each stamp!


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Re: Multiple Maltese Cross Cancellations

Post by CMJ »

100% agree with Scott.

The regulation from April 1840 said:
You will carefully Stamp with the Cancelling Stamp that has been forwarded to you, the stamped Covers and Envelopes, as well as the adhesive Stamps, the former must be struck on the figure of Britannia, and in case of more than one adhesive Stamp being attached to a Letter, each Stamp must be separately obliterated.

Absolutely no reference to cancelling a stamp once, and once only.

Multiple strikes of the Maltese cross obliterator are sometimes, mistakenly, referred to as “cancelled contrary to regulations”; the only stipulation was that each stamp was to be cancelled to prevent its re-use and there was no limitation on how many strikes this was to take. Examples cancelled in this manner are simply eye-catching anomalies.
Image
The pair below, however, is "contrary to regulations". Two stamps cancelled by a single Maltese Cross
Image
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Re: Regulations re GB multiple Maltese Cross Cancellations?

Post by Global Administrator »

MrBeagle wrote:I've seen references that indicate the use of more than one Maltese Cross strike on a single penny black or red was contrary to regulations.

Is this true?
I doubt it - this entire was addressed to the PO Stamp Office!
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Allanswood »

Definitely a "Not happy Jan!" cancel. :D
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by vikingeck »

Well the regulations did specify " OBLITERATED!"
whatever it is -------it's better than a poke in eye with a wet umbrella !

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by MrBeagle »

Thanks all for your responses. After seeing "contrary to regulations" and then the number of examples of multiple strikes on the penny blacks and reds, I'm glad to have your confirmation that these statements are themselves "contrary to regulations".

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

There is also another situation in which the term "contrary to regulations" is wrongly used in descriptions and this is regarding the positioning of the stamp. A Post Office Notice to the Public, dated 7 May 1840....
Image
In those cases where Adhesive Stamps are used, it is requested that they nay be placed on the Front of the Letter, and upon the right hand corner on the upper side. Should this direction not be attended to, from the rapidity with which the duty must be performed, Letters which bear Stamps will frequently be taxed, while the Parties receiving them will be put to much trouble in obtaiing a return of the Postage improperly charged. In all cases of complaint, whether of overcharge or of any other irregularity, the Cover of the Letter must invariably be kept and sent to the Post Office, as affording the only means of investigating the complaint.
This was a "request" to the public asking them to place stamps top right on the front to make it easier/quicker for the Post Office to process, i.e. cancel, them. It was not a Post Office regulation imposed on Post Masters, so items such as
Image
with the stamp "mis-splaced" are not "contrary to regulations" either. But they are often described as such.

Chris.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by johnrcrow »

Sorting and trying more verification of Maltese cross cancelled 1d reds.

So I will share. I welcome comments and corrective measures of course, the identity of Maltese crosses can be debated.

First some of the better strikes.

Stanley Gibbons (SG) Specialised Victoria (14th edition) used for defining stamps.


1. Plate 14. Imperforate 1d red, 4 margin SG BS3b (double letters), C-F, with C doubled.

Image




2. Plate 14. Imperforate 1d red, almost 4 margin (cut right bottom corner), SG BS3, P-L, good strike.

Image




3. Plate 17. Imperforate 1d red, SG BS6, H-G, good strike.

Image




4. Plate 19. Imperforate 1d red, SG BS8, C-F, good almost full MX strike.

Image



5. Plate 25. Imperforate 1d red, 4 margin, SG BS14, D-D, good almost full MX strike.

Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by johnrcrow »

6. Scan of Plate 19. Imperforate 1d red, 4 margin SG BS8e (constant variety) N-J with J flaw.

Image

Nice central strike for MX.




7. Scan of Plate 21. Imperforate 1d red, 4 margin SG BS10b (double check letters) S-E.


Image

Central grey MX.




8. Scan of Plate 21. Imperforate 1d red, 4 margin SG BS10b (double check letters) P-L


Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by johnrcrow »

9. Scan of Plate 25. Imperforate 1d red, 4 margin SG BS15, L-L

Image

Interesting MX well centred.




10. Scan of Plate 20, Imperforate 1d red, 4 margin, BS9d N-D showing basal shift with Norwich or Plymouth MX.


Image


Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by johnrcrow »

11. Scan of Plate 22, Imperforate 1d red, BS11 G-C with Norwich or Plymouth MX.


Image

Image



12. Scan of Plate 25, Imperforate 1d red, 4 margin, BS14 N-A with possible Milnethorpe MX?

Image

Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by johnrcrow »

Lastly a set of Id reds from black plates for comment.

13. Scan of Id red imperforate Plate 1b, SG AS6 L-L, with 3 x MX (hinted) and pen cancel?

Image





14. Scan of Id red imperforate Plate 1b, 4 margin SG AS6 E-F.

Image






15. Scan of Id red imperforate Plate 2, 4 margin SG AS18, S-C.

Image







16. Scan of Id red imperforate Plate 5, 4 margin SG AS26, K-I.


Image





17. Scan of Id red imperforate Plate 9, 4 margin SG AS57, Q-H.


Image







18. Scan of Id red imperforate Plate 10, 4 margin SG AS69, P-D.


Image







19. Scan of Id red imperforate Plate 11, 4 margin SG AS74, C-A.


Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by johnrcrow »

Some 2d blues.

Scan of 2d blue. No line. D1 (SG4/6) (2)blue. Nice central black MX.

Image



Scan of 2d blue (white lines added). Blue MX. Plate 4.

Image



Scan of 2d blue (white lines added). 4 margin with MX with 12 in cross. J-I, Plate 3. (Square foot J).

Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

Picked this up the other day, nice central strike with most of the MX imprinted.
Image
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Wayne1951 »

I have acquired a number of Maltese Cross cancels on stamp and cover. Not having good experience with most of these I encourage discussion regarding the validity of the ones I show that are identified in the collection. The only reference I have is a 1992 S.G. Great Britain Volume 1 Queen Victoria. I would also like any information regarding relative scarcity/value of the various specific Maltese Cross cancels I show. The ones that are identified in my catalogue seem to have quite high catalogue values in 1992.
The first one is identified as "Welshpool" which is shown in the catalogue I have.

Image


The second is identified as "Plymouth" but is not shown in the catalogue.

Image


The third is identified as "Coventry"which is shown in the catalogue

Image


The fourth is identified as "Catterick" and is not shown in the catalogue but has been shown previously in this thread.

Image


The fifth is identified as "Dublin" of which there are 2 shown in the catalogue and I think this is Dublin II

Image
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by emason »

Hello Wayne,
You have some interesting Maltese crosses there. As for identification, it is often easier to say what they are not rather than what they are. So I will start with the negatives.

No. 1 is not a Welshpool cross. (I haven't seen anything quite like it before.)
No. 3 is not a Coventry cross. (It is quite distinctive but I can't identify it.)
No. 4 is not a Catterick cross, just a common cross.

The positives.
No. 2 is a Norwich cross, not a Plymouth.
No. 5 is Dublin type 2 cross.

It is much easier to identify them when on cover. :mrgreen:
Best wishes,
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

A couple of recent acquisitions
Image
Llangefni to Bangor, dated (on arrival) 24 November 1848, cancelled with a black Maltese Cross.
Very late use of the Maltese Cross

Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

Image
Edinburgh to Hawick, dated 18 June 1844, cancelled with a black Maltese Cross
Possibly the last day of use of the Maltese Cross in Edinburgh

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

Image
1d red (plate 25), sent from Ardrahan to Parsonstown, dated 1 November 1842,
cancelled with a dull blue Maltese cross
Ardrahan datestamp on reverse in matching shade

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Rog »

Very nice :)
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

Out of curiosity, does anyone know when these type of postmarks came to be known as a "Maltese cross"? Was this name given to the postmark by philatelists, or was it in some official nomenclature?

I'm asking because the real Maltese cross (as used by the Order of St John and has therefore become a national symbol of Malta) is quite different from the cross on these cancels:
Image
Their main similarity is that both are eight-pointed crosses, but apart from that there isn't a lot of resemblance.
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

I suspect it was a name coined by Philatelists as when the first stamps and obliterators were introduced the official description was the "Obliterating Stamp". This is part of the text of a postal notice of April 1840 announcing the introduction of stamps.
It has been decided that Postage Stamps are to be brought into use forthwith, and as it will be necessary that every such Stamp should be cancelled at the Post Office or Sub-Post Office where the Letter bearing the same be posted, I herewith forward, for your use, an Obliterating Stamp, with which you will efface the Postage Stamp upon every Letter despatched from your Office. Red Composition must be used for this purpose and I annex directions for making it, with an impression of the stamp.
The term Maltese Cross was certainly in use by the late 19th century. This is from the Pall Mall Gazette, 5 December 1898.
Image
Image
Image
In the March 1897 edition of the London Philatelist there is a note of an sale by MESSRS. VENTOM, BULL, AND COOPER. January 28th and 29th in which was sold for £20:
" VR," horizontal pair, with side margins, and Maltese Cross, trial obliterations (one in red and the other in black)
These are the earliest references I have been able to find. So far ...

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

... and in the Encyclopedia of the Maltese Cross by Rockoff and Jackson, a letter to the Times dated 25 January 1890 is noted which mentions the term Maltese Cross in connection with the obliterator.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

Thanks for the information Chris :)

Interestingly, the 1898 article you posted mentions the cancellation as "Maltese Cross, or "Croix-patee"". The cross pattée is actually a completely different cross from the Maltese cross (although they're often confused) - it formed the basis of the German Iron Cross.

The postmark is neither a true Maltese cross nor a true cross pattée, although it does contain elements reminiscent of both designs of crosses.

It would be interesting to see how the postmark was referred to in early philatelic literature up to the 1890s (if it was mentioned at all).
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

The earliest (so far) reference in a philatelic publication I have found is in the London Philatelist, February 1903 (half way through the second paragraph).
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by DaveR »

Sheffield Evening Telegraph 23 October 1896

Mr H Hawley, Librarian of the Sheffield Philatelic Society, showed a very interesting collection of 1d red English imperf on originals with Maltese cross obliterations, with numbers in centre, and other curious cancellations. These were greatly admired ...
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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

DaveR wrote:Sheffield Evening Telegraph 23 October 1896

Mr H Hawley, Librarian of the Sheffield Philatelic Society, showed a very interesting collection of 1d red English imperf on originals with Maltese cross obliterations, with numbers in centre, and other curious cancellations. These were greatly admired ...

Dave.
That same meeting is also reported in the November 1896 issue of Stanley Gibbons Monthly Journal, but sadly (for this topic) there is no earlier mention of the term Maltese Cross in that publication which started in 1890.

Chris.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

A couple of examples on the 2d blue (plate 1)
Image
2d blue (plate 1) cancelled with an orange-red Maltese cross

Image

Image
2d blue (plate 1) cancelled with a black Maltese cross

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

... and then on plate 2
Image
2d blue strip of three [CJ-CL] (plate 2), cancelled with brownish red Maltese crosses

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Image
2d blue strip of four [BA-BD] (plate 2), cancelled with black Maltese crosses

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Not strictly on topic but hopefully interesting enough that I'll get away with it...

Image

Two strikes of a red maltese cross on what is an attempted fraudulent reuse - the stamp is still affixed to the original stamp shaped portion of the letter from where it was cut but with a small section removed, probably because it showed part of the cancellation! Its stuck on with sealing wax... endorsed in manuscript with "Stamp used before" and charged 2d postage due. Amusingly addressed to a solicitor!

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Image

Couldn't resist this - 1d black cancelled with two strikes of a black maltese cross and one red maltese cross.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

Kilmarnock Maltese Cross

Image

1d red (plate 35), sent from Kilmarnock to Galston, dated 19 February 1844,
cancelled with a distinctive Maltese cross of Kilmarnock

Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

Wotton under Edge Maltese Cross

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1d red (plate 17), sent from Wotton under Edge to Berkley, dated 14 April 1842,
cancelled with a distinctive Maltese cross of Wotton under Edge

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Love that Wotton maltese cross CMJ! Its a great clear strike.

I've got the following tucked away in my collection:

Image

1d black (plate 7) with a double strike of the Wotton under Edge maltese cross. Dated Sep 9 1840.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by W5LDY »

Fine first day usage, August 31st 1840, of experimental Maltese Cross in black, bearing a pair of Penny Blacks Plate Four MF-MG.
Coming up for auction Saturday 23rd March https://www.horners.co.uk/auction-catalogue/ lot 407.

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Image

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by CMJ »

Image
1d red (plate 68), sent from Wolsingham to Stanhope, dated 26 October 1847,
cancelled with a blue Maltese cross

Very late use of the Maltese cross

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

A recent addition:
Image

1d Red (from Black Plate 9) used on cover dated 21st June 1841 - from Rugeley to Hereford cancelled by a double strike of a red maltese cross.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Image

For at least a week in Feb 1841, Newcastle Upon Tyne is known to have used a blue-green / dull blue-grey cross. This cover is dated 18 Feb 1841 with a 1d Black (plate 5 helpful pencilled on!) cancelled with two strikes of the blue-green cross.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Image

An entire wrapper dated 16th May 1840 addressed to the Procurator Fiscal, Inveraray, bearing a 1d black from plate 1a lettered M.J. which had been previously used and bears an ordinary red Maltese cross cancellation.
The small post office at Keith did not notice this re-use of the adhesive and had cancelled / tied the stamp to the cover using the distinctive double-lined Maltese cross of Keith in red ink and from the same ink pad applying the straight line "Keith" handstamp on the reverse of the cover. A very rare use of a previously cancelled and used adhesive which slipped through the system.

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Re: The Maltese Cross Cancel on GB Stamps Thread

Post by Badu »

Image

1843 wrapper Athlone to Penzance - cancelled with the Athlone maltese cross and upon arrival in London additionally cancelled by two strikes of the number 1 in cross.

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