The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by norvic »

David Benson wrote: 01 Oct 2021 18:52 Norvic,

It is free if I want to transfer to my Australian account but 3% charge to transfer to my US account.

David B.
Ah, that's a different matter. I used to have a US a/c for the benefit of receiving US$, but decided quite quickly that I would only accept Pounds sterling. The few payments I make in US$ (To Canada) don't cost me a lot. Most US$ payments (software licenses etc) are by credit card.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

Norvic.

To answer your query.

I only list on the US site and all of the funds from buyers are in US$.

I have two bank accounts registered with Paypal, 1 in A$ and the other in US$,

If I want to transfer funds into my A$ account, I have to convert the funds from US$ to A$ at the Paypal rate of exchange, When that is transferred to my A$ account there are no fees (Paypal has already made currency transfer fees.)

If I want to transfer funds into my US$ account, there is no conversion. Up to a few months ago, this was free but suddenly Paypal introduced a 3% commission fee.

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

Phila Tourist,

It all started about two weeks ago without warning.

I received an email from Paypal stating that my account has been limited.

I checked my account and it stated that my account was limited.

At that time I had $ 68.00 in the account. I immediately withdrew the funds to my bank account which went through perfectly.

Two days later I received an email stating that I had to answer various questions about my account.

Why had there been major changes lately. Where do I acquire stock. Tracking details for about 30 items sent, etc. etc.

The account had already received funds from some Hipstamp buyers who have to pay by Paypal. It had about $ 90 which was on hold. I could not withdraw funds or transfer. It did state that I could make refunds to buyers. However when I made a refund because of overpayment of postage, it charged my bank account and not my Paypal balance.

I phoned Paypal (which takes a long time before you actually get to a living person) and explained the situation including that I do not use online tracking as the amounts are small and online tracking is expensive. She said she would pass it on upstairs.

Almost every day I kept on receiving emails to fill in the forms. I kept on filling them until including uploading various positive feedback comments about the material in question.

Eventually I received an email stating that all is OK now and my account has been resolved. When I checked it was still on hold.

I called Paypal again and got the runaround after about an hour the girl said that resolved meant that it would be after 21 days.

It looks like I will have to wait until the 21 days are up to see what happens.

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

I forgot to mention that the messages from Paypal stated that an amount of US$ 850 was on hold. When my funds in the account exceeded that, the amount over that would be released to me.

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by fletches1 »

I buy regular items from a supplier in Europe from Ebay US site.

Until recently I clicked the pay by Paypal button, then chose the Credit card option and made the payment, without touching my Paypal balance.

I then make my Card repayments on a set schedule to match my budget. This way I can buy larger priced items as required.

This worked fine, the amount was charged to my CC.

Then ebay made the payment changes and I started to get a 3% Foreign transaction fee with each purchase.
The card records showed a payment charge to ebay US.

I tried a new method this time.

Logged into my ebay AU account, made the payment through Paypal as before, buy used Paypal balance (which I had withdrawn down to a nominal $50AUD) and used my CC as a payment for the balance.

This time I got the charge to my CC WITHOUT the Foreign Transaction fee, and the Card listing was showing as ebay AU.

Result I have had my EUREKA moment and beat their game !!

(I still get the Paypal lousy exchange rate)


Further I now try to purchase over $1000 AUD at a time , this stops the 10% GST being charged.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

Ebay has now changed most of the categories and it is creating havoc with buyers and sellers.

If other members are having problems let me know,

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Gotta love eBay and PayPal -- always doing the best for their paying CLIENTS to assist them to make a buck!
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by Rog »

Wondered why my alerts were full of junk.

Did they publish the changes?

Edit. Yes here: https://pages.ebay.co.uk/categorychanges/UK_Category_Changes.html

I can't see that stamp subcategories were affected.

My junk alerts were on postcards.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

Rog,

It is the Postcard category thst is affected,

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by Rog »

Thanks David :)
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by borsac »

David Benson wrote: 16 Oct 2021 16:47 Ebay has now changed most of the categories and it is creating havoc with buyers and sellers.

If other members are having problems let me know,

David B.
Way I see it is eBay have made it take about 10 times longer to list something. This will more likely scare off the private sellers who might use eBay to clear estate items. There are some ridiculous new required fields. For example I listed an antique lamp. I have to say how many lumens is has and how many blades!
Postcards are now fun too because I now have to manually add a bunch of information into fields most of which is already in the item description!.
Because of these new changes I have about 300 of them listed that require these fields filled in.
EBAY are treating their sellers like morons.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

The major problem is that members who search certain categories will not work as the category numbers have been changed,

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by borsac »

David Benson wrote: 18 Oct 2021 08:54 The major problem is that members who search certain categories will not work as the category numbers have been changed,

David B.
I would say people search by key words more that by categories though.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

I check through categories,

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by norvic »

Me too. Looking for GB postal history categories are the best starting point. No idea what will be in the description.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by zemstvo »

.
Is it safe to give eBay sensitive personal info like date of birth?

I sold a couple of items on eBay and now there appeared a message "Your payouts are on hold until you update your account details. Please update by Nov 13, 2021 to avoid further restrictions. "

I guess they want me to send a photo of my drivers licence or passport to them. But I don't want to do it.

If I don't they will keep my money, right?
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

If you want to get paid, give them your details.

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by zemstvo »

David Benson wrote: 20 Oct 2021 01:42 If you want to get paid, give them your details.
David B.

I already gave eBay my banking details a couple of months ago, but now it seems it was not enough. I read on eBay forum that "a law requires that sellers give more details. The law allows eBay to comply with Anti-Money Laundering obligations, which helps keep eBay a trusted marketplace."

This still leaves me wondering how to trust eBay to protect my personal details. Maybe several sellers already gave their details, but at the same time I have read many sellers leaving eBay.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by norvic »

As a member of the EU Finland is a party to the GDPR which ebay must comply with the same as every other business operating in the EU.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

They are not asking for you criminal or health records, all they are asking for is a confirmation of your birth date.

That is not personal information,

you worry too much,

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by Global Administrator »

David Benson wrote: 20 Oct 2021 08:31 they are asking for is a confirmation of your birth date.

That is not personal information,

Nonsense - they demanded both sides of Driver's Licence, and current utility bills, checkable address, proof of current phone number, and other personal data, and if you trust paypal/ebay with all that info, you are braver/crazier than most folks. :!:

Might only be random accounts selected to do all this, but if it occurs you will wish it did not. You yourself posted here they wanted all kinds of non-relevant data from you many times, while they held your account and funds locked - your suppliers, and what you paid etc.
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Global Administrator wrote: 01 Oct 2021 12:44 .
Our daughter went through the same PayPal mess she advised.

Among all the ID stuff they demanded was her driver's licence. (Or passport - her choice)

She took clear photos of both sides, and they rejected that even!

Sent them a current Telco account as demanded, and they rejected that. No reasons just - "REJECTED"

She said it was like dealing with the FBI!

Same account restrictions and so on for weeks as David's.

In the end when it was all approved after hours of her time wasted, her PayPal account which used to be her shortened first name like

Beth Smith
has sent you $20

They reset all payments to others to be in her full name as per licence/passport i.e.

Elizabeth Eugenia Allison Smith
has sent you $20

Insane.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

The question was should he give his birth date not his driving license details or blood type details,


" Is it safe to give eBay sensitive personal info like date of birth? ".


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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Wrong again -- this is what he actually posted -

zemstvo wrote: 19 Oct 2021 23:02 .
Is it safe to give eBay sensitive personal info like date of birth?

I sold a couple of items on eBay and now there appeared a message "Your payouts are on hold until you update your account details. Please update by Nov 13, 2021 to avoid further restrictions. "

I guess they want me to send a photo of my drivers licence or passport to them. But I don't want to do it.

If I don't they will keep my money, right?

My daughter’s started off very mildly the same way - "we need just a few little details" and then the full FBI roll out followed after she started down that path. :!:
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

He says,

" Is it safe to give eBay sensitive personal info like date of birth? ",

the answer to that question is yes, on almost every form anyone has to fill in is date of birth.

He adds,

" I guess they want me to send a photo of my drivers licence or passport to them. But I don't want to do it. ".

It does not say they want it,

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by Global Administrator »

David Benson wrote: 20 Oct 2021 09:16
He adds,

" I guess they want me to send a photo of my drivers licence or passport to them. But I don't want to do it. ".

It does not say they want it,

David Benson

David you have been a member here 14 years, and made over 5000 posts -- SURELY you can figure out after all that time how the VERY simple QUOTE button works?

Your ugly mess above is hard to follow.

If you can wrestle and cope with ebay's mad and ever changing rules, you can certainly work out how to use the QUOTE button here. :!: :!: :!:

Unlike ebay we do not change things each month - the QUOTE button has worked exactly the same way for those 14 years. All our 25,000 members except you have mastered it. :lol: :lol:

Not that you ARE actually following anything today, so I repeat, just for you -

Global Administrator wrote: 20 Oct 2021 09:08
My daughter’s started off very mildly the same way - "we need just a few little details" and then the full FBI roll out followed after she started down that path. :!:

YOU have no idea what data they will actually seek from zemstvo.

zemstvo wrote: 20 Oct 2021 05:55
This still leaves me wondering how to trust eBay to protect my personal details. Maybe several sellers already gave their details, but at the same time I have read many sellers leaving eBay.
.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

Glen, re,

" YOU have no idea what data they will actually seek from zemstvo",

NOR DO YOU,

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

Glen,

Did Zemstvo had to give you his birth date to join this esteemed group,

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by Global Administrator »

zemstvo wrote: 19 Oct 2021 23:02 .
Is it safe to give eBay sensitive personal info like date of birth?

I sold a couple of items on eBay and now there appeared a message "Your payouts are on hold until you update your account details. Please update by Nov 13, 2021 to avoid further restrictions. "

I guess they want me to send a photo of my drivers licence or passport to them. But I don't want to do it.

If I don't they will keep my money, right?

PayPal are the worst - they want a TON more info than date of birth when THEY start asking for ID verification! See below, and relevant current paypal web links -



Capturedd.JPG
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Capture55.JPG
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by Global Administrator »

.
As a quick check shows there are discussions all over the world about this PayPal time-wasting, heavy handed KGB stuff this year -



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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by zemstvo »

David Benson wrote: 20 Oct 2021 09:30 Glen, re,

" YOU have no idea what data they will actually seek from zemstvo",

NOR DO YOU,

David B.

This message appeared on my eBay page after I sold a couple of items:


eeb.png
When I click "Update account details" eBay directs me to eBay.de because Finland geographichally belongs to eBay-Germany area. There is this page:


eeb2.png

On that page they want me to prepare an offical ID document in order to sell internationally, "müssen Sie ein amtliches Ausweisdokument bereitstellen, um international verkaufen zu können".

They want my passport number (Reisepass Ausweisnummer) or drivers licence number. But I did not give them yet, because I am not sure what will be the next step, do they want more and more details in order for me to prove who I am.

I have already given eBay my bank details a couple of months ago, and I thought it was enough, but now it seems they want more and more. Where does it stop?
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

See what happens after giving them your drivers license details, it should be enough,

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by norvic »

The documents PayPal requires are standard for money-laundering prevention, which all licensed operators are required to undertake by the terms of their license.

Twenty years ago these weren’t required when you opened an account but they are now, especially under EU law.

Similarly if you want to open a bank account here (which is what PayPal is for electronic funds) you are required to show who you are and where you live through two different sets of documents, a job made more difficult if you have gone ‘paperless’ and do everything online! And in the case of PayPal you can’t just walk into the branch and let them photocopy your drivers license.

If you want to buy a house, the selling estate agent requires documentation to show where the money is coming from, especially if not from the sale of another property.

There are a lot of paranoid and biased people in some countries who think this is all a big conspiracy and designed to make life difficult. It isn’t. PayPal want to make money from your transactions - it’s not in their interests to make it any more difficult than they are legally obliged to.

If you want to use their services play by the rules that they have to play by and stop bitching about it.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

norvic,

BRAVO,

Yesterday we went to the 1st. restaurant to have a meal for over 4 months. The security guard at the door would not let us through until we showed proof that we were doubly vaccinated. That is what life is now, we have to get used to it.

I am extremely happy with the new Ebay Payments system and glad that very little goes through Paypal.

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

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zemstvo wrote: 20 Oct 2021 17:42
They want my passport number (Reisepass Ausweisnummer) or drivers licence number. But I did not give them yet, because I am not sure what will be the next step, do they want more and more details in order for me to prove who I am.

I have already given eBay my bank details a couple of months ago, and I thought it was enough, but now it seems they want more and more. Where does it stop?
.

Read the ebay exact notes above. If they wish, they can and do drive totally honest folks nuts. Endless posts on this if you search google. And past security breaches means this data is NOT secure in their hands.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by norvic »

Global Administrator wrote: 20 Oct 2021 18:54
Read the ebay exact notes above. If they wish, they can and do drive totally honest folks nuts. Endless posts on this if you search google. And past security breaches means this data is NOT secure in their hands.
.
To be fair they are by no means alone in this, not have they had the worst breaches.

I don't know whether as a payment handler eBay is also required to be licensed as PayPal is but if they are then the same anti-corruption and anti-laundering requirements will apply.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by zemstvo »

David Benson wrote: 20 Oct 2021 17:56 See what happens after giving them your drivers license details, it should be enough,David B.
yes, it should be...until they realize it isn't....
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by David Benson »

you will never know until you give it a go,

The only alternative is to cancel the sales and close your account,

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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by zemstvo »

David Benson wrote: 21 Oct 2021 07:00 you will never know until you give it a go,

The only alternative is to cancel the sales and close your account,
David B.

It is possible to know even before giving it a go. Why would they be satisfied with what I told them?
In fact, theoretically, there is no limit of how much they want, more and more as I said.

They should not be given control over some person's identity. It just is not right. I may have to stop selling at eBay.

I don't need them, I don't need to sell any stamps. I might donate my stamps to someone, that may be much better idea than risking my identity. I don't trust in their method of collecting personal details. It is their job to convince me, not my job finding if they are worth trusting.

Giving my banking details should already have been enough, common sense says so. To whom does my bank account belong except me?
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by zemstvo »

Global Administrator wrote: 20 Oct 2021 18:54 Read the ebay exact notes above. If they wish, they can and do drive totally honest folks nuts.
I guess so.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by norvic »

zemstvo wrote: 20 Oct 2021 05:55
David Benson wrote: 20 Oct 2021 01:42 If you want to get paid, give them your details.
David B.

I already gave eBay my banking details a couple of months ago, but now it seems it was not enough. I read on eBay forum that "a law requires that sellers give more details. The law allows eBay to comply with Anti-Money Laundering obligations, which helps keep eBay a trusted marketplace."

This still leaves me wondering how to trust eBay to protect my personal details. Maybe several sellers already gave their details, but at the same time I have read many sellers leaving eBay.
.
Of course millions of sellers have provided the required information for Anti-Money Laundering rules.

And yes, many sellers are leaving, but the two are not necessarily connected. Some will have left because eBay payments system keeps their money 5 day longer than PayPal did and charges more for the privilege!

I accept that it is your choice, but I think you are more than a little paranoid over this.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by zemstvo »

norvic wrote: 21 Oct 2021 08:13 Of course millions of sellers have provided the required information for Anti-Money Laundering rules.

And yes, many sellers are leaving, but the two are not necessarily connected. Some will have left because eBay payments system keeps their money 5 day longer than PayPal did and charges more for the privilege!

I accept that it is your choice, but I think you are more than a little paranoid over this.
Let's suppose I give them my driver's licence number. Do you think that's enough?
How to verify it is correct? They need more details in order to verify the number,
so I am forced to provide more details, for example a photo of my driver's licence.
So, how to verify the photo is correct? Again, they need more details and so on.
There is no end to what they want.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by blue-within-blue »


Glen said :

"PayPal are the worst - they want a TON more info than date of birth when THEY start asking for ID verification!"

and

"As a quick check shows there are discussions all over the world about this PayPal time-wasting, heavy handed KGB stuff this year"

That is inconsistent ; we can't praise or welcome PayPal's added security & document requirements when they hinder Nassar from opening new forger/scammer accounts, yet criticise those same security measures if they slow honest folk down a little.

ROB
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by norvic »

Nor when they are simply complying regulatory measures.

In any case Zemstvo was writing about eBay, not PayPal so all those of us who are writing about PayPal have been misdirected by someone!
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by Phila-Tourist »

A certain amount of paranoia is warranted. BANKS do demand personal information, but at least where I come from banks are extremely tightly regulated. Most have an office you can waltz into and cause a stink if you feel like it. They are very closely watched by consumer protection organizations and the media.

Ebay and PayPal are not banks (although their activities may require them to have a banking licence or a similar outfit). They are notoriously difficult to reach communication-wise and the nearest thing to an HQ may be a solicitor's office in the BVI or C(r)ook Islands.

Lastly, if my local bank demands a passport photocopy it may well be filed as a paper document in the local branch. Ebay, PayPal, Google, Microsoft put it all "in the cloud" and every decade or so a hacker downloads the data and sells the lot to the highest bidder in Russia, Nigeria or North Korea...
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by zemstvo »

norvic wrote: 21 Oct 2021 08:13
Of course millions of sellers have provided the required information for Anti-Money Laundering rules.

And one day eBay will realize that there may still be money launderers among them. What to do in that case?
The best way to check where users' money is coming from is to gain access to their bank accounts.

Users will again need to update their details, so that eBay gains full control over their money.

There may even be legal demads to be fullfilled by eBay, "so kann eBay die gesetzliche Vorgaben einhalten".
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by towradji »

Except that ebay is obliged to take reasonable precautions to deter money laundering, not act as the Police or an investigator. You are entering the realms of fantasy.

Your best option is to live in peace with the anti ebay mob that reside here and collect another way. They are happy, we are happy, problem solved.
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by zemstvo »

towradji wrote: 22 Oct 2021 16:37 Except that ebay is obliged to take reasonable precautions to deter money laundering, not act as the Police or an investigator. You are entering the realms of fantasy.

Your best option is to live in peace with the anti ebay mob that reside here and collect another way. They are happy, we are happy, problem solved.
Nothing prevents them from acting as the Police or an investigator. If I gave them my driver's licence number,
they might investigate if it is genuine. I suppose there are many fake numbers already collected by eBay.
Fake identities etc, who knows. They should investigate further in order to keep eBay a trusted marketplace.
At least I am losing my trust in eBay if they are unable to guarantee that there are no money-launderers among
them. How does eBay comply with Anti-Money Laundering obligations in that case? Aren't they oliged to
take reasonable precautions?
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by norvic »

zemstvo wrote: 22 Oct 2021 18:09 Nothing prevents them from acting as the Police or an investigator. If I gave them my driver's licence number,
they might investigate if it is genuine. I suppose there are many fake numbers already collected by eBay.
Fake identities etc, who knows. They should investigate further in order to keep eBay a trusted marketplace.
At least I am losing my trust in eBay if they are unable to guarantee that there are no money-launderers among
them. How does eBay comply with Anti-Money Laundering obligations in that case? Aren't they obliged to take reasonable precautions?
Yes, and that's what several of us have told you several times.

Your arguments and statements are contradictory. You are beginning to sound like an internet troll. (Lest there is any confusion or loss in translation, I am not suggesting that you ARE trolling, just that it looks that way.)

On the one hand you complain about the amount of info eBay want from you.

In the next sentence you are saying they should do more to keep out money-launderers? How do they do that without getting information from account holders like you?
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by zemstvo »

norvic wrote: 22 Oct 2021 19:04 Yes, and that's what several of us have told you several times.

Your arguments and statements are contradictory. You are beginning to sound like an internet troll. (Lest there is any confusion or loss in translation, I am not suggesting that you ARE trolling, just that it looks that way.)

On the one hand you complain about the amount of info eBay want from you.

In the next sentence you are saying they should do more to keep out money-launderers? How do they do that without getting information from account holders like you?
The problem is how do they verify the information is genuine? They need more and more details.

I am far from being alone with these worries:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Payments/quot-Give-Us-Your-Soc ... p/31633121

They already got my bank account number, it should have been enough. To whom might my bank account
belong except me?
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Re: The new eBay payments system - bypassing PayPal etc

Post by towradji »

Despite all of your theories, you do know where it will end up?

I think you will be able to sell on ebay but they wont transfer funds to you on sold items. This can go on for months.

Let us know how you get on.
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