Aust. KGV CofA 1/4 Perf 'OS NSW' on ebay - any thoughts?

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Trent
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Aust. KGV CofA 1/4 Perf 'OS NSW' on ebay - any thoughts?

Post by Trent »

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Just wondering if anyone can give me an idea of the scarcity and approximate market value for this one.

thanks in advance

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Post by ozstamps »

Our member JRG is quite an expert on these.

The 1/4d must be quite scarce (if genuine!) and I do not recall seeing one before.
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Post by Trent »

To test the geniuneness of this item I intend on analysing the perfin hole to see if the ink from the cancellation has suffused the 'inside rim' of the hole.

Is this a reliable method?

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Post by ozstamps »

Yep. they do look far too cleanly cut for my liking but let's see what John has to say.
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Post by Trent »

I agree that this stamp would be an excellent target to fake the perfin - a stamp worth a handful of $ suddenly turned into, say, a few 100??

Not as well known as some of the roo perfins that get faked alot so might not be as likely to be faked.... maybe.

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Post by jrg »

This stamp is not listed in "Australian Official Perfins" (2007 ed), and while that casts some doubt on its genuineness, it does not automatically mean it is fake. It just means that none of the members of the PCNZA has ever seen one, nor knows of one being sold.

OS/NSW puncturing stopped in early 1929, and the NSW govt subsequently used commonwealth OS perfins and overprints. When these ceased production, the use of the OS/NSW puncture was resumed in Feb 1933 for a brief period, until replaced by the G/NSW puncture.

The base 1s4d CofA was released in Sydney in "early 1933" (ACSC KGV p4/302).

The first G/NSW recorded usage is May 19th, 1933.

Thus there is a theoretical window when the OS/NSW perfin could have been genuinely created, say March or April 1933.

Some other KGV CofA are known to exist with OS/NSW perfins, but they were all released well before the introduction of G/NSW. For example, 5d has a first reported use of 25 Feb 1932, 3d - 30 Sep 1932, 2d - 18 Dec 1931 and 1d - 8 Oct 1931.

I would therefore rate the 1s4d as suspect, but theoretically possible.

One problem with getting it accepted as genuine would be that (to my knowledge) no expertiser would issue a definitive certificate.

If you want to contact me off-list, I can put you in touch with David Andersen, the author of "Australian Official Perfins".
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Post by jrg »

All theory aside, I have now compared the scan with a dozen genuine OS/NSW perfins, and there is one feature (which I'm not prepared to publicise here) that is constant in all except yours.

So sadly, I'm declaring it a fake.
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Post by ozstamps »

Trent .. John's knowledge of these is wide, and he confirms what I suspected, as I'd not seen this value before 'OS NSW' and there was a feature about it that usually screams "forged'.

Where did it come from out of interest?
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Post by Trent »

hi john

Thanks for the terrific reply.

The expertising issue is a problem but not completely necessary for me to be happy.

In answer to the question where did it come from - from ebay from a reasonably new seller.

Yes, yes there are a lot of warning bells. I have his money back guarantee. Luckily I'm not the leading bidder.

Thanks for your opinon that it is a fake.

So I will not be bidding further. In hindsight I probably should have come here first. I will post him a link of this thread.

Incidentally I have a number of different C of A Wmk state perfins varieties (hence my interest in this stamp) - reversed perfins, 12 hole os, vg perfin pairs with a different number of holes on each stamp (10/11 I think). For this reason I would LOVE a copy of the book you mentioned.

Where can I get one and what do they cost?

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Post by ozstamps »

Trent wrote:

In answer to the question where did it come from - from ebay from a reasonably new seller.

Yes, yes there are a lot of warning bells. I have his money back guarantee. Luckily I'm not the leading bidder.
The forgery sellers nearly always offer a "money back guaratee". They do that to encourage bidders.

Seeing we get them closed within weeks that promise is not worth the tin air it is written on of course.

Who is the seller - we'll take a look at thier other "gems" here.
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Post by Trent »

oh yes, I will also send a link to the current leading bidder.

The item is here


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thanks to all concerned.

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Post by Trent »

my message to the seller:

Hi

I have just run this stamp by some other collectors. You can view the discussion here:
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=111888#111888

The consensus is that the perfin on this stamp is not genuine.

I assume you will notify the current leading bidder, which I will also do.

Thanks

Trent.

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Post by ozstamps »

Well done Trent. 8)

Curiously this seller was selling small Multi perf 14 perf OS sets cheap as well earlier this month.

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If genuine the 1/4d and 4d and ½d alone would be worth about $600. :roll: :roll: :roll:

ANY real dealers would pay him several $100 cash on the spot for these if genuine, so flogging them cheaply for $50 on ebay smells highly fishy to me.


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Post by GlenStephens »

Hmmm.

This seller seems to have a lot of the rare perfins going dirt cheap. :roll: :roll: :roll: :shock: :shock: :shock:

This sells for $400 if genuine MUH and just sold for a quarter that via this seller. I'd gladly pay double that right now IF it was genuine.

I've not owned a copy for a decade - - in GENUINE MUH it is REALLY scarce.

However NON OS it is pretty common and sells for around half what he got on ebay.

Food for thought. :idea: :idea: :idea:

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Post by jrg »

Well well well ..... all bids on the 1s4d auction have been cancelled by the seller, because the seller has "lost the item" ....... but curiously, the auction still seems to be open, with 6 hrs to run!
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Post by Trent »

well he has cancelled all the bids - probably no choice after this publicity.

I'd prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt - may be he just bought them (this one and um, err, the others) somewhere else and is now on selling them.

The other bidder contacted me also and is going to have a look at this site.

The more people who know about this site the better - the scammers will find it hard to get by and the genuine sellers should get a fair price for their stamps as people will better understand value.

By this I mean, knowing how quality effect values.

If it is actually in 'fine' condition then hopefully it should go for more and the poorly centred and damaged stuff should go for a fraction of the cv.

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Post by Trent »

fancy a bid john?

And that book you mentioned.... are they available?

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Post by jrg »

Tempted, tempted - but it would hardly be ethical, after I'd been the instrument for getting your bid cancelled <g>

See separate post re the perfin catalogue. Please note that it does NOT include VG perfins - there is a whole separate book ("Victorian Government Punctures", by Neale Scott and Bryan Toop, published in 1993) covering these.
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Post by Trent »

not sure which post you mean

did a search using the term and you as the author but couldn't turn it up.

I have contacted my favourite stamp dealer to see if he can help (sorry Mr Stephens, have to support victorians where possible).

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Post by gregbear61 »

That's a sloping OS on those KGV heads - S is lower than the O. They should be level. A trademark of the George Nassar (real name) / George0mighty (ebay handle + a few others) of south west sydney type of forgery. He of the 10 banned ebay sellers hall of infamy.

The grammar and syntax of the listing is far too good for him though? May not be him, but the forgery is his style. Must have a look at some of the feedback of this seller...

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Post by Trent »

thanks for emailing me the info about the catalogue john

not sure why it didnt pop up in the search results

for the benefit of others following this thread the post is

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=3798&highlight=

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Post by jrg »

Interesting to see that the "lost stamp" has had a resurrection.

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vera9913 has now read this thread, and has queried vtoledo20 about the stamp.
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Post by gregbear61 »

GlenStephens wrote:Hmmm.

This seller seems to have a lot of the rare perfins going dirt cheap. :roll: :roll: :roll: :shock: :shock: :shock:

This sells for $400 if genuine MUH and just sold for a quarter that via this seller. I'd gladly pay double that right now IF it was genuine.

I've not owned a copy for a decade - - in GENUINE MUH it is REALLY scarce.

However NON OS it is pretty common and sells for around half what he got on ebay.

Food for thought. :idea: :idea: :idea:

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Image
Just so people can see what I am on about...

This is an example of a george nassar forgery, circa Feb 2007:

Image

The slope in the perfin can be seen by looking at the overprinted 'pacific' word and it can be seen that the punctured S is lower in the 5d. The two lowest holes of the S sit under IC of pacific, but the lowest O hole just cuts the base of P in pacific.

The 1d green has the same attribute. I may be paranoid but the seller of the 1d green has the stamp on a slight angle in the hagner strip and in the scan. The stamp has been tilted a few degrees to the left the make the sloping OS less noticeable.

I had a look through the sellers feedback and perhaps 1 in 15 of his sales are perf OS, for which the items look very suspect and 'tilted'. But the other "junk" items offered look OK. He is getting the odd $100 for the OS stuff and under $10 for just about everything else.

I smell a rat! I suspect this person is 'seeding' forged OS punctures, which are bringing in a few $100 in total, amongst low value genuine items, which are generally selling for under $10 a go.

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Post by GlenStephens »

jrg wrote:Interesting to see that the "lost stamp" has had a resurrection.

vera9913 has now read this thread, and has queried vtoledo20 about the stamp.
I am getting the distinct feeling that vtoledo20 by his/her devious actions may be our gang of scammers new outlet?

vtoledo20 - you clearly are reading this - and if you are not someone here will email you the link I am sure, which is:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=3794

It has been shown to you that you are offering a fake perfin on a stamp it does not exist on.

You withdrew it, cancelled all bids, with the BS excuse you had "lost the item" - yet you now list it again with no note on lot write up you have been advised the perfin is a fake. And bids are up to $12.00 already.

Smells like deliberate Fraud to me at least.

vtoledo20 - please take a read of the dozens of fraudsters on ebay this board has closed down.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewforum.php?f=21

Worth reading the threads .. and sticking to offering material of which there is no doubt about veracity is my suggestion. :idea:
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Post by jrg »

Here is another stamp sold recently by vtoledo20. It is described as 5d CofA with OS/NSW perfin. Unlike the 1s4d above, this denomination with CofA wm and OS/NSW perfin is known to genuinely exist.

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Image

The same feature in the 1s4d perfin exists in this perfin.

For reference, here is a genuine OS/NSW perfin, from a respected dealer on ebay:

Image

Draw your own conclusions.
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Post by ozstamps »

jrg wrote: Draw your own conclusions.
I did, from post #1 of this thread.

EVERYTHING on this page sold by vtoledo20 either OS or OS NSW looks to be a fake to me. :evil: :shock:

I hope his buyers get alerted, as well as ebay.
:twisted: :twisted:
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Could it be the same stamp / perfin ?

Post by buddaboy »

Image


Hi all this stamp was offered as lot 866 at a auction house in Sydney in 2004 no gum.

Among this was other rare and unheard of perfins from other states.

The perfin resembles a striking resemblance to the one shown here.

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Post by jrg »

Looks OK to me.
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Re: KGV C of A 1/4 Perf 'OS NSW' on ebay - any thoughts?

Post by Jezza »

Very old thread but a few questions if I may,, is there a catalogue that deals with just the OS, OS New South Wales ,G New South Wales perfins, in the kangaroo and KGV issues , love to get hold of one if there is

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Re: KGV C of A 1/4 Perf 'OS NSW' on ebay - any thoughts?

Post by Global Administrator »

Jezza wrote:
24 Jul 2021 18:21
An old thread, but a few questions if I may, is there a catalogue that deals with just the OS, OS New South Wales, G New South Wales perfins, in the Kangaroo and KGV issues, love to get hold of one if there is

Jezza

Nope.

The ebay serial forger vtoledo20 offering this fake, we had banned by ebay along with 120 others fake accounts he is using on eBay. Join the posse - report the CURRENT accounts here - PEOPLE POWER -

Anyone buying Aust. perfins or overprint on eBay needs to see a psychiatrist -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=85476
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Re: Aust. KGV CofA 1/4 Perf 'OS NSW' on ebay - any thoughts?

Post by Jezza »

So how can you find out if a stamp actually exists. ?

Example;; is there a 5/- small multi, perf os nsw
Jezza

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Re: Aust. KGV CofA 1/4 Perf 'OS NSW' on ebay - any thoughts?

Post by Philip James »

Jezza,

I have a copy of David Andersen's reference 'Australian Official Perfins' (2nd Edition, 2007). I recommend that publication as an excellent reference. It may be available from David Woods at Phoenix or perhaps Michael Eastick, who have both facilitated the sale of such references and monographs in the past.

Unfortunately, Andersen only lists 9d, 1/- and 2/- with the Type B (Roo) 'OS NSW' in Small Multiple Wmk Roos. Research continues, but on balance of likelihood, the 5/- SMW Roo does not exist genuine punctured OS NSW.

I have seen a couple of forged G NSW and OS NSW punctures from this era (3rd wmk and SMW) which are quite obviously forged and may represent trials by one of our infamous forgers. You may wish to do a simple overlay with a couple of OS NSW punctures and/or check postmark suffusion through the puncture holes.

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Re: Aust. KGV CofA 1/4 Perf 'OS NSW' on ebay - any thoughts?

Post by MJ's pet »

Yes you need David Andersen's reference 'Australian Official Perfins' (2nd Edition, 2007).

But to be perfectly frank, if you are new to perfins, choose another collecting area. Totally awash with forgeries. :idea:

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