Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

We all have and handle these from time to time. "Back of book", Revenues, "Cinderellas", duty stamps and all kinds of other stamp like labels. Discuss them all HERE!

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by Tod.Moore »

Hello MJ’s pet. Your post about the Shepparton 1938 Centenary raises a very interesting point. The pack horse event may well have been sponsored by the Shepparton Centenary Committee. There were some Shepperton Cinderella stamps in 1938 as well. This is the best reproduction I was able to manage, from the illustrations of Prestige Auction 185, held in 2013, Lot 169.


Shepparton Centenary 1938 labels, Back To Shepparton.
Shepparton Centenary 1938 labels, Back To Shepparton.

As you can see, two of these ‘Back to Shepparton’ labels have First Nations people in the design, although none show any trace of being based on real personages!

In the same lot were these, from Geelong, put out by Hawkes Brothers, and featuring buildings. This makes them very similar to the Melbourne 1934 labels, which were so well illustrated and discussed earlier this year, by Vito Milana in Stamp News. Is Vito a member of this Board? It would be really good to get his input.


Geelong Centenary 1938 labels, Hawkes Bros building.
Geelong Centenary 1938 labels, Hawkes Bros building.

Following your lead, I took a look at the NLA Catalogue. There are two publications. One is the 151 page book, called Geelong Centenary Celebrations, October, 7th to 30th, 1938 : Souvenir and Programme, compiled by George King and ‘Published by authority of the Executive Committee’. I expect that was a Committee set up by the Council.


Geelong Centenary book, 1938, front cover.
Geelong Centenary book, 1938, front cover.

The other is a 60 page photo book called A Souvenir of Geelong Centenary Celebrations 1938, published by the Geelong Advertiser in collaboration with the ‘Executive Committee of the Geelong Manufacturers’ Centenary Exhibition’. All 23 members of this body are in a photo on Page 58.

So, that gives us two possible Committees which may have commissioned the label we are all finding so very interesting here.

Also, if you check out the Monument Australia website, you will find some more information. Beneath an illustration of the inscribed Centenary of Geelong tablet, is the following transcript of a newspaper report from February 1938:

‘As honorary general secretary to the Geelong Centenary Celebrations Committee, Mr. A. L. Walter has been advised that the Premier has accepted an Invitation to attend the official celebration of the Centenary of Geelong on Wednesday, October 26. The Governor previously intimated that if he is in Victoria at the time he too will attend.‘

This may be the same Committee of which George King was a member. All grist to the mill. Cheers. Tod. :)

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

This is very interesting. The Pack Horse Shepparton covers need a separate thread.

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »



One Pound Jimmy maximum card, postmarked Alice Springs, 1962. (Image credit: Prestige Philately)

1962 jimmy maxium card.jpg

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

One Pound Jimmy postcard, with caption. (Image credit: Prestige Philately)

jimmy postcard w caption.jpg

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

Tod.Moore wrote: It is worth noting that the 1989 publication of Dreamtime stories, called Shadows in the Mist, splashed the $2 coin picture across the back of the dust wrapper. Good publicity!

mist.jpg
Been looking for the back cover of the dust jacket. Presumably it just shows the $2 coin on the back. It is no secret that the Roberts lithograph of anonymous/composite Aborigine? was the source of the coin, so that does not advance the attribution unless there is some text that says otherwise.

As Joseph Goebbels once said: "“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
Tod.Moore wrote: The incorrect and misleading Daily Mail Australia article is still up, and there is also a link to it, as shown here.
The Daily Mail Australia will copy anything they see on then net. Sad. No Surprises there.

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

First Paige says she did go to Stampboards and see the stamp:


ABC Radio wrote:
ABC Announcer: Mmm Mmm and Paige you found another stamp with ah with ah Tjungurrayi on it earlier than 1950?

Gleeson: Yes I did. So um in the course of researching Tjungurrayi and um images of um Australian Aboriginal people on stamps I was looking through some stamp collecting forums online an I discovered a ah stamp from um 1938 it’s a commemorative stamp it wasn’t a postage stamp but it was a centenary stamp that was issued by the city of Geelong in 1938 to celebrate their centenary an I noticed that the man on the stamp was unmistakably um Tjungurrayi it was based on the an exact copy of the photograph of Tjungurrayi that had featured in Walkabout magazine a few years previously an it was unmistakably him.

Paige Gleeson in The Conversation wrote: While researching images of Aboriginal people on stamps, in an online stamp collecting forum, I realised the man on the Geelong stamp was unmistakably Tjungurrayi, pictured 12 years before the “One Pound Jimmy” stamp.


Then Paige says - when everything starts hitting the fan - she did not go to Stampboards and see the stamp:

Paige Gleeson wrote: She has reported that she was not aware of your post and identification of Gwoja Tjungurrayi as the subject of the 1938 stamp.


This sounds like the Kevin Rudd defence: "Yes I was at the strip club but I didn't see anything!"

kevin rudd at strip club.png

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

"features a bearded Aboriginal" - no mention of inspired by Jimmy.

2 dollar coin Canb Times 28 Apr 1988 p11.jpg
Canberra Times, 28 April 1988, p11

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

"the bust of a tribal Aboriginal elder" - no mention of inspired by Jimmy in this Mint advert.

mint advert.jpg
The Canberra Times, 20 Jun 1988 p9

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

"features an Aboriginal elder" - no mention of inspired by Jimmy.

coin  ready.jpg
The Canberra Times, 18 Jun 1988 p3

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

"the head and shoulders of an Aboriginal" / "restores a depiction of Aboriginal culture" absent since the $1 note - no mention of inspired by Jimmy.

keating coin.jpg
The Canberra Times, 8 Sep 1987 p3

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

"a head-and-shoulders depiction of an Aboriginal man" - no mention of inspired by Jimmy

coin hopeful crowds.png
The Canberra Times, 28 Jan 1988 p1

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

The Jimmy/$2 coin story has also spread to the Northern Territory Electoral Commission. The seat was only renamed prior to the 2020 election so no surprises there:

https://ntec.nt.gov.au/Electoral-divisions/Legislative-Assem ... n-of-gwoja
NT Electoral Commission wrote: Division of Gwoja

History of name

The division was created for the first Legislative Assembly election in 1974. Previously named Stuart after the explorer John McDouall Stuart, the name was changed following the 2019 redistribution to recognise Gwoja Tjungarrayi. A local Aboriginal elder born in the Tanami Desert, Gwoja Tjungarrayi survived the Coniston massacre and became involved in early mining, pastoralism and tourism industries. He was the first Aboriginal person to have his likeness on an Australian postage stamp, and his image is also on the Australian $2 coin.

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by Allanswood »

Allanswood wrote:
14 Aug 2021 17:28



Image


Introducing Woritarinja (known as "Jim") and Gwoya Tjungurrayi ("Jimmy")

They knew each other, they were often photographed together.

And Woritarinja could be the image used (from a different photo) for the Victoria Centenary Stamp of 1934 - (a real stamp, not a Cinderella).
If so, then that "identified" image would make it an even earlier use.

Let confusion rule!

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

That the two men were known as Jim and Jimmy respectively must be an obvious source of confusion.

There is no evidence as far as I can see that Jimmy is in fact depicted on the $2 coin.

It is important to note that in her definitive 2007 journal article, Jillian Barnes :idea: never :idea: attributed the portraiture on the $2 coin to Jimmy. The question is, Why?

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by Tod.Moore »

Hello everybody. Sorry for the delay, but here is a scan of the picture on the back dust wrapper of the 1989 Dreamtime book, Shadows in the Mist.


Shadows in the Mist, Ainsley Roberts, 1989, detail of rear dust wrapper.
Shadows in the Mist, Ainsley Roberts, 1989, detail of rear dust wrapper.


Clearly not Gwoja, as has been pointed out by everybody on this Stampboards thread. Illustrations in the 2007 book Chapter by Jillian Barnes (notably Figure 5.22) do seem to suggest that the composite picture is inspired by Woritarinja, the other Jim. Cheers. Tod. :)

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by Global Administrator »

.

Perfect match - NOT One Pound Jimmy - who is on the RIGHT here -
Image

Image.
Capture.JPG
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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

This is from We, The Aborigines by Douglas Lockwood (1918-1980) (First Edition, 1963). The book is still in print (2019).

Stories of Aboriginal people culture, including Albert Namatjira. Tribes represented: Aranda , Djumindjung, Wailbri , Pitjentjarra Nongomeri , Iwaija , Jabu and Moola Boola Douglas Lockwood began writing books based on his own knowledge and experiences with the Aborigines of northern and central Australia in the late 1950s. These books, which include I, The Aboriginal and We, The Aborigines, made his name known around Australia and in many other parts of the world. I, The Aboriginal won the Adelaide Advertiser literary competition in 1962. His other writing awards include the Walkley Award for Journalism.

we the aborigines 1963.jpg


No reference to Lockwood's book in Paige Gleeson Aboriginal History journal article. :roll:

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

Here are the pages from Lockwood's We, The Aborigines. Lockwood interviewed dozens of Aborigines. He says in the Author's Note that he "talked personally with most" of the men and women whose photographs are reproduced. Where direct speech is attributed, it is theirs, not his. At least some of the dialogue seems invented, which should have been explored. (Not using his real name, photo attributed to the PMG, references to the Penny Black etc. suggest he may be a latter-day inclusion in the book). Most of the dialogue in the other chapters is given in a conversation style and not in quotation marks.

How a PhD is unaware of this is a really good question to be answered.

Lockwood p80.jpeg

Lockwood p83.jpeg

Lockwood p81.jpeg

Lockwood p82.jpeg

Lockwood Authors Note.jpeg

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

douglas lockwood pic.jpg


Douglas Lockwood's book,We, the Aborigines (1963), the follow-up to 1962's I, the Aborigine, is significant in Gwoja's story.

Lockwood was based in Darwin for nearly twenty years after the war and he met many Aborigines:

"In 1946 he returned to Darwin and, except for postings to the Herald's Melbourne (1947-48) and London (1954-56) offices, was to remain there until 1968.

With the Northern Territory, the north of Western Australia and north-west Queensland as his beats, Lockwood reported bizarre events in the region, recorded everyday occurrences and wrote social history.

Accompanying a government expedition to the Gibson and Great Victoria deserts in 1963, he helped to find drought-stricken Pintupi Aborigines who had had no previous contact with Europeans. He was banned for life from Vestey-owned cattle-stations for exposing the company's treatment of Aboriginal stockmen and their families."

https://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/lockwood-douglas-wright-10847

lockwood book pic.jpg

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Re: Australian "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderellas

Post by briggia »

reddies wrote:
16 Oct 2010 16:29
Image

Found this lovely Cinderella in my old Album. :?:
Here's a full sheet of the 1965 TB cinderella
1965 TB Cinderella Sheet complete_minor creases 12_5pc.jpg

Quite the shift upwards of the yellow, compared to reddies post, as can been seen in this close-up of a portion of the sheet

1965 TB Cinderella Sheet block 4 detail 50pc.jpg

Cheers

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by briggia »

!
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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

Radio interview with 2SER.107:

2SER tweet.png

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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For those interested, here is the full transcript of the 2SER.107 interview.

2ser screencap.png



Radio 2SER107.3 wrote:

2SER107.3 Radio Interview transcript
DATE POSTED: Monday 5th of July, 2021
Interviewee: Paige Gleeson
PRODUCED BY: Gabi Warner
https://2ser.com/who-is-the-indigenous-man-on-our-two-dollar-coin/



Announcer: Queen Elizabeth the Second, Bank Patterson, Reverend John Flynn are Australian royalty and feature on our banknotes. But did you know the man on our 2 dollar coin? And did you know the coin was not his first public appearance? This morning I’m chatting with Paige Gleeson, a PhD Candidate at the University of Tasmania, School of Humanities to get a clearer answer. Paige, Good Morning! How are you!

Paige Gleeson: Hi Gabi, good. Thank you for having me.

Announcer: No, you’re welcome! So tell us a little about this man and what was his significance in the Indigenous community at the time?

Paige Gleeson: Yeah so Jungarai was um tsk sort of had quite an unlikely rise to fame he encountered ah the editor and the photographer of the ah a well-known 20th Century travel magazine in the um in the Central Desert in the 1930s and he agreed to pose and have his photograph taken um and from there he um tsk was shown on the front cover of um tsk Walkabout Magazine several times and um that’s probably how he came to feature on a very well-known stamp in 1950 and later on um the 2 dollar coin from the 1980s. tsk um so he was um quite significant in um his community and um he had a role as a traditional lawman and he was also the adoptive father on um five children um three of whom um went on to become leaders of the Western Desert um painting movement in the 1970s so his impact there um … um shown to the wider world to settler Australia the value of Aboriginal culture and everything it has to offer was really significant.

Announcer: It sounds like it was it was a really um there was obviously a bit of an aura around him I guess the man like saw him and wanted to take his picture and he had this kind of presence about him.

Paige Gleeson: Yeah. He did. And um the photograph that was ah used on the front cover of er Walkabout Magazine and which was um later used on the stamp um he he does look um he does look um very impressive like he’s yknow standing tall, he looks proud, um it was noted at the time um as being a yknow particularly handsome man um and um tsk but also some of those images were tied up in lots of racist ideology at the time so um the idea that he was representative of um a um Jungarai was representative of a racial type [dog coughing in background??] um played into um yknow European ideas around um human development um yknow sort of racial evolutionary ideas so um tsk it’s interesting when you look at these types of images from the past there’s sort of two sides of the of the coin so to speak um the side which shows the um Jungarai as a really um um proud young man um and then also the other side that um how those images were used by settler Australia and some of the ways that um that use contributed to um negative impression understandings of Aboriginal people.
Announcer: Was he told that his um picture was um being used in all these places? Out of interest? Do you know if he knew? [laughs]

Paige Gleeson: Yes he he did know. Yeah. He ah um and his how he felt about ah his image being used and about his fame is ah um tsk he never left any comment about that directly but he did do things like ah at times he became a bit of a celebrity and people from all around the world would write to him asking for um his thumbprint an um to keep as momentos and at one point he um shaved off his beard to er conceal his identity um because he was um because it it seems like he was resentful of the attention um and he was avoiding one of the um what we’ll call one of the Native Affairs patrol officers who was trying to get his um thumbprint to send to um collectors in um Europe and America um but then on the other hand he also a lot of the thumbprints did enter circulation so he did came to some kind of agreement with the um station manager cos he was also a stockman um an he came to some sort of agreement with the station manager um ah where he was working um an his thumbprints did enter circulation um an I I think its possible to read that as um cultural coercion but also Jungarai um tsk was a cultural intermediary and worked with anthropologists throughout his life as er a informant and contributed to their anthropological research and er really um ah was was in his element when he was um dealing with um tsk white people and um I think it’s probably pretty likely that he made some kind of choice himself about whether or not to participate in um some of that. Yeah.

Announcer: So interesting because … yeah like you say he … all of the the … European and the celebrity interest I can imagine was not just like he was wasn’t he would have been interested in that in terms of the opportunity to um represent his people and engage and like you say be that cultural conduit was probably a very powerful thing for him. Um why why is it so important for us to feature our Indigenous Australians on our currency?

Paige Gleeson: Yeah … I mean I think um tsk with the er image of Jungarai on our coin um on the one hand it’s important obviously for the um Aboriginal people to be represented um as a part of Australia they are the original Australians um tsk but on the other hand I think sometimes the use of these images un Aboriginal people um by settler Australians particularly in the um 20th Century um somewhat appropriative so people um until more recently um weren’t aware that the um man on the $2 coin was a real person um Aboriginal people were sort of often um anonymised and used as um generally representative of um Aboriginal people and um yknow sometimes used in ways which reinforced stereotypes yknow um pictures of Aboriginal people printed on um ashtrays or used on lawn sculptures and that sort of um kitsch wares which is often called Aboriginalia um but on the other hand in recent years like the the um the use of Jungarai‘s image on the stamp on the coin has actually allowed us to recognise him and um and know more about his life so recently um one of the electoral divisions in the Northern Territory was renamed in his honour um as um Gwoja which is his first name which means water and so and that really sort of changes our perception of Australian history in a way cos we’re moving away from European place names and place names in Australia being named after um European um yknow discovers as they refer to themselves um and more towards recognition of the people whose land the settler colony of Australia was settled on.

Announcer: Paige Gleeson thank you so much for your time this morning it’s really fascinating and I think it will make everyone think a little bit deeper when they next gaze at their 2 dollar coin.

Paige Gleeson: Great. Thanks for talking to me.

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

Despite certain people telling everyone that Gwoja has not been "celebrated" until "now", as Glen has pointed out, in 2009 - the 200th anniversary of postal services in Australia - Gwoja's stamp was voted the 4th most popular stamp in Australian history, ever.

Think about that for a minute. :idea:

As a result, the Gowja stamp was re-issued in 55c form.

stamp bulletin Jimmy.png

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

Another book not looked at is a bio of Roberts:

Ainslie Roberts and the dreamtime / Charles E. Hulley. Published 1988, same year as first issue of the $2 coin.

hull.jpg


Roberts journeyed in the outback with Gwoja in 1956 according to Deborah Bird Rose:

"According to Hulley’s account of this pivotal event, Ainslie Roberts did all of
this as a solitary act. He did not ask One Pound Jimmy (or even Mountford)
about the place, the stones, or the need for healing. Indeed, One Pound Jimmy
does not seem to figure in this vignette at all. The guidance of this Aboriginal
man meant a lot to both Mountford and Roberts, but it seems they wanted him
to navigate and to answer questions as asked. On the basis of available
information, One Pound Jimmy was asked to walk, point, carry, and provide
pieces of information. His circumscribed presence enables us to realise how
deeply Roberts was on a white man’s quest. One Pound Jimmy facilitated the
journey; he travelled with the white men, but he did not journey with them." (p59)

https://www.researchonline.mq.edu.au/vital/access/services/Download/mq:8165/DS01?view=true

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

jimmy letter.png
Walkabout.Vol. 24 No. 5 (1 May 1958) p40

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

Another huge mis-step is that Gleeson was completely unaware it seems of the PMG/Australia's Post's unwritten convention not to feature living persons on postage stamps, other than the monarch.

As everyone here will know, the policy was in force for decades until comparatively recent times c.1997.

The UK and the USA also had the same policy.

She is very fond of saying that Gwoja was "anonymised" (her favourite word) by not being named on the stamp. But he could not have been under the policy in force at the time.

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

The Representation of Science and Scientists on Postage Stamps

https://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/p311431/html/ch08.xhtml?referer=&page=11

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by ViccyVFU »


Seems Ms Gleesons research did not extend much beyond keying in "Gwoya wiki" into Google, and reading the top three results.

gwoya_.jpg
Top Google search results for "gwoya wiki"

If she had clicked on the top result, she would have found Glens newsletter was cited reference #1 in it.
Result number 3 talks about the coin.... All of everything, without leaving the comfort of a monitor.

It is undeniably Glens scan that has been used, but, contrary to MJ Pets theory that there are only two out there, in fact two others were sold on eBay Australia in the last month. (One was a re-list, as it failed to get away at AUD 8 !!).

jimbo.jpg
Recent eBay sales - "A few bucks, and you can scan your own copy"

Personally, I'd give the kid a break. As Glen first alluded to: "Acknowledgement of the error, correction of the source article and proper apology" should calm a lot of the waters. Never try to talk to the candidate direct, always through the publishing University, who will do their own investigations.

A PHD is 60,000 words, and this is just one tiny spec in the total research project (which will usually run over several years, not "an afternoons surfing the top articles").

However, the University should be checking that her supervisor is closely monitoring for other sloppy "sensationalist claims", because no educational establishment wants to be tarred with a "sloppy research" brush. (As crazy as it sounds, they'll welcome the correction, if it makes the research better).

I don't see any money in it. It was a claim made in an educational and research context, and even if it was a "direct drop of a reasonably small gob of text", educational and research exemptions on fair usage would still, on balance, be favoured, especially on a "non commercial" website.

To compare and contrast, Stampboards is a commercial site, and the standards are set higher. It can sometimes be a battle to ensure you have "all the permissions and attributions in place", as I'm sure you are aware.

If there is a positive out of all this, I've really enjoyed "the poking round" / investigating issues that people have been doing, and making discoveries along the way.

I didn't know the story of Gwoya, do now (I think!) and its another little piece in the fascinating jigsaw of your cultural history.

(Once we get over the faux-pas's in her storytelling, its an incredible story to tell).

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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geelong label.png
Geelong Centenary label used on cover, October 1938

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Geelong label on cover back PA 84 ex Lot 575.jpg
Geelong Centenary label used on cover reverse, September 1938

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Another really disappointing thing is the failure to use Dennis Altman's work on the symbolism of stamps.

Here is what Paige Gleeson had to say in Aboriginal History at page 98:

Paige Gleeson wrote:
Due to its rarity, the existence of this stamp has not been accounted for in the only other brief historical account of Aboriginal representation on Australian stamps.(footnote 18)

(18. Langton, Marcia. ‘Stamped! Indigenous History and Australia Post’. Ngoonjook: A Journal of Australian Indigenous Issues, no. 24 (December 2003): 25–29.)


Pardon? Marcia Langton is "the only" historical account of Aboriginal representation on Australian stamps? Huh?

Dennis Altman's Paper Ambassadors: the politics of stamps was published in 1993, probably before Paige Gleeson was born. At pages 63 and 64 he considered the symbolism and meaning of Aboriginal depictions on various Australian stamps. While he did not comment specifically on Gwoja 1950, he did discuss the 1934 Victorian Centenary stamp and other later issues.

Also, bear in mind that the 1938 Gwoja is not a postage stamp, so why would it be considered by Langton, Altman, or anyone else? :roll:

altman book.jpg


It is worth recapping who exactly Denis Altman is:

*University of Sydney - Politics lecturer

*La Trobe University - Professor of politics

*Visiting Chair of Australian Studies at Harvard University

*Professorial Fellow in the Institute for Human Security at La Trobe

*he was listed by The Bulletin as one of the 100 most influential Australians ever [July 4 2006]

*appointed a Member of the Order of Australia in June 2008.

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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I asked him if he had anything to add here, and sadly he said he did not. (But he had some stamps he wanted to sell me!)

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by Tod.Moore »

It is good to see Paper Ambassadors getting the credit it deserves. Just for the record, here is some of the content, from Page 64. The reference to the 1934 Melbourne Centenary set is interesting, and the 1934 design has been mentioned earlier in this Stampboards thread.

Denis Altman, Paper Ambassadors, excerpt from p.64.
Denis Altman, Paper Ambassadors, excerpt from p.64.

Here is the well known 1934 design, described in ACSC, King George V (2018), as ‘an aborigine of the Yarra Yarra facing the modern city of Melbourne’. Or, as Dennis Altman says, ‘a wild native gazing at the modern city’.


Australia 1934 Centenary of Victoria stamp.
Australia 1934 Centenary of Victoria stamp.

The figure in the stamp design seems posed, and lacks the wiry appearance of Gwoya. It suggests an artistic rendition. However, aspects of the figure are probably based on photographs. One likely source of such photos of First Nations people is the original Australian Encyclopeadia. Volume 1 contained a long and well-illustrated section on ‘Aborigines’. It was first published in 1925, and reprinted in 1926 and 1927, and it was very popular.

I no longer have a copy, so unfortunately cannot provide any scans of the pictures. Cheers. Tod. :)

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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It is quite alarming that the "Jimmy is on the $2 coin" story is being spread around but there appears to be - so far - not a shred of evidence for the claim.

Now (2021) someone is doing a documentary on One Pound Jimmy. Someone should tell these people to get their facts right:

http://www.cinematographer.org.au/cms/page.asp?ID=26187

Postcard from Pieter De Vries ACS
Yendumutraining1.jpg
Training participant Liam shooting an in car sequence on the Tanami Road

Filming of a feature length documentary is underway in the Central Desert region of the
Northern Territory. It is the story of Gwoya Tjungurrayi, also known
by his nickname One Pound Jimmy, who became the first Aboriginal person to be featured on an Australian
postage stamp and now the only indigenous person to appear on an Australian
coin ($2)
. It is being written, produced and filmed by the PAW Media and Communications
(Pintubi Anmatjere Warlpiri) based in Yuendumu, 300k NW of Alice Springs.

I was invited to fly up for a week to train and mentor four indigenous cinematographers and
some of the production team in camera setup, drone and gimbal operation but importantly,
documentary cinematography techniques.

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Take this quote from Paige Gleeson's Aboriginal History article at page 98, where she attempts to explain what the 1938 Gwoja stamp actually is:

Paige Gleeson wrote: A second, very similar stamp (Figure 4, left) was produced four years later in 1938. Released to mark the centenary of the Victorian town Geelong in 1938, it is an incredibly rare collectable stamp. It has no decimal mark as it was not issued by the Post-Master General’s Department and hence could not be used to send mail. It was produced by the city of Geelong purely as a collector’s item.


Stop and repeat that quote to yourself. Think about it for just a minute. What is wrong with this sentence?


Paige: "It has no decimal mark". Pardon? What? Huh? :idea: :idea:


Does Paige expect that a stamp issued in 1938 would have a "decimal mark"? whatever that is. Does she not know the difference between pre-decimal and decimal currency? Does she not know that Australia adopted decimal currency only in 1966, before she was born? Australia, for much of its history, used pre-decimal currency based on pounds, shillings and pence. How can a historian-in-training be allegedly confused about the difference between decimal and pre-decimal currency? She typed this with her own fingers. Her journal article was checked by many people. Who has checked this journal article? Paige likes to tell The Conversation that Aboriginal History is "peer reviewed". How is it that basic facts are so wrong? :idea: :idea:

Does she mean a "decimal separator" or a "decimal point"? Why would a stamp from 1938 be expressed in decimal currency anyway?? :lol: :lol: :lol:

C day 1966 b.jpg
Currency change-over Day, 1966

Cambridge English Dictionary wrote:Decimal: a number expressed using a system of counting based on the number ten. For example, Three fifths expressed as a decimal is 0.6.

Oxford English Dictionary wrote:Decimal: adjective - relating to or denoting a system of numbers and arithmetic based on the number ten, tenth parts, and powers of ten. noun - a fraction whose denominator is a power of ten and whose numerator is expressed by figures placed to the right of a decimal point.

Your Dictionary wrote:Decimal is defined as a system of numbers or currency where everything is based on the number ten, or on parts of ten.


Does she mean a "currency indicium"? If so, why use with word "decimal" at all? If she did mean currency indicium, she is seemingly not aware that many other non-postage stamps have expressed currency markings: revenue/duty stamps, railway stamps, parcel labels, some charity stamps etc.

Does she not have access to any Australian stamp catalogue at all, held in all libraries? How can a PHD candidate allegedly not find an elemental reference? Does she really think she may have stumbled upon an issued postage stamp unknown to all of philately for 73 years? Why does she wade through this verbiage to conclude it was not an official postage stamp issued by the PMG when she could have looked it up in any catalogue - and found it was not there - and just said so:

stamps of aust renniks.jpg


You cannot make this stuff up. :idea: :idea:

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Paige Gleeson uses the word "Aboriginalia" 32 times in her Aboriginal History journal article concerning depiction of Aborigines on stamps.

Yet fails to consider the "Mickey" Aboriginal poster stamp, issued in 1938 for Australian's 150th anniversary. Produced by the Australian National Travel Association and printed by the New South Wales Government Printer as is well-known.

Mickey Aust Aboriginal 1938 stamp.jpg
Mickey stamp, 1938 (ebay)

Mickey 150thlargepromotion stampboards.jpg
Mickey stamp in pack, 1938 (Stampboards)


Link to research on Mickey Johnson (1834-1906), perhaps the best known Aboriginal man of the Illawarra district from the nineteenth century, here: https://documents.uow.edu.au/~morgan/mickey.htm#1

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by towradji »

King Mickey Park in Warilla was one of the first official recognition acts in the Illawarra done to acknowledge the contribution of first Nations people by local government

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Paige Gleeson discuss the 1934 Victoria Centenary stamp in Aboriginal History. Why she uses a black and white image of the stamp is anyone's guess?? :roll: :roll: Anyway, then she gives her interpretation of what this stamp means at page 97:

Paige Gleeson wrote: In this image (Figure 3), the Yarra River acts as a symbolic, contrasting divider between an ancient and forgotten past, and the progress and success of the settler present (and imagined future). The Kulin nations man pictured becomes a symbol of the settler transformation of a primordial ‘wasteland’ into a productive, modern nation – a spectre of dispossession. He leans forward as if to take a step but freezes in an anticipatory moment of surprised
contemplation as he considers the new world on the bank opposite, which did not, in this era of eugenic theory and biological absorption, reserve a place for him.

2d Centy.jpg
1934 2d Centenary of Victoria stamp


This is no newsflash of course. The stamp contrasts the stone age and the modern age and makes a comment on the advance of civilisation. In the second "frame", there is no place for Aborigines.

Altman (not cited) and then Langton both make this point about the stamp.

But Gleeson is seemingly unaware that similar imagery was used thirty years before. In 1906 a postcard was published and widely sold on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of the founding of the town of Launceston. The first frame depicts Aborigines viewing the arrival of European settlers, but in the second showing the built city, Aborigines are now missing:

Launceston centenary postcard National Museum of Australia.jpg
postcard Centenary of Launceston, Tasmania [Source: National Library of Australia]


This is quite a common postcard and while not issued by the PMG (but neither was the 1938 Jimmy "stamp"), it had a wide circulation at the time.

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Another really disappointing thing is the failure to find the literature on the representation of Aboriginality on stamps.

Here is what Paige Gleeson had to say in Aboriginal History at page 98:

Paige Gleeson wrote:
Due to its rarity, the existence of this stamp has not been accounted for in the only other brief historical account of Aboriginal representation on Australian stamps.(footnote 18)

(18. Langton, Marcia. ‘Stamped! Indigenous History and Australia Post’. Ngoonjook: A Journal of Australian Indigenous Issues, no. 24 (December 2003): 25–29.)


Marcia Langton is "the only" historical account of Aboriginal representation on Australian stamps? Pardon? Excuse me? Huh?

She didn't find the exhibition catalogue of a whole exhibition of the subject at Australia's Post's Postmaster Gallery in Melbourne. This happened in 2002 when Paige was probably in Primary School. Some of the entries were written by Marcia Langton:

Postmark post Mabo : visual representation of Australia's Indigenous peoples and cultures in a Commonwealth collection / curated by Sarah Schmidt ; with guest essay by Marcia Langton ; editor, Rosemary Clark ; catalogue photography by Mike Laurie. Melbourne : Australia Post Philatelic Group, 2002

This points to a wider alleged failure to consult with Australia Post. Their archivist of many decades, well-known to many here, could have assisted.
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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Australia Post's exhibition in 2002:

pm gallery.jpg


Stamps reflect an era's depiction of Aborigines

August 24, 2002 — 10.00am https://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/art-and-design/stamp ... duitn.html

Visual arts: Postmark post Mabo

Where: Postmaster Gallery, 321 Exhibition Street

When: until September 29


Most stamps end up in the rubbish; but for the two days between sending a letter and picking it out of the box, the postage stamp has enormous power. Not only does it vouch for the safe passage of the letter but it carries messages of its own, in imagery and text.

The question of who and what are represented on stamps is decided afresh by each epoch. The inclusion of Aborigines, for example, has been unusual and when featured, their images were often mishandled.

This fascinating and telling issue is examined in the exhibition, Postmark post Mabo, at the Postmaster Gallery. Skillfully curated by Sarah Schmidt, with learned catalogue essays by Professor Marcia Langton and the curator, the exhibition carefully gathers the evidence of neglect, stereotyping, patronising inclusion and finally celebration that have marked the often embarrassing national history of the Aboriginal presence on Australia's letters.

Although there's much to be ashamed of, this isn't a bad-news story. The recognition of Aboriginal art in the later 20th century invited the commissioning of tribal bark and canvas paintings for reproduction in stamps. But even in the periods of neglect, the tenuous aspiration to include Aborigines can be examined with understanding if not sympathy.

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Sadly no consideration given to the 1951 5/- Cattle Industry stamp showing an Aboriginal Stockman.

This stamp was on issue at the time of the Gwoja stamp. Gwoja worked as a stockman in his younger days.

This is a very powerful image and is not "stereotypical" or "kitsch", words which Paige is so fond of using.

5s stockman keyline design.jpg
5/- Cattle Industry, keyline drawing, 1961 (Australia Post)


Creator: Bruce Stewart
Description: This keyline design of the 1961 5/- Northern Territory Cattle Industry stamp was prepared by the stamps engraver, Bruce Stewart, as an aid to cutting the stamp die. The engraver cut each line of the design into the surface of a softened steel die at stamp size. Thick lines were cut broadly and thin lines were narrow and shallow cuts. This method of engraving determined the amount of engraving which determined the amount of ink that is pressed into the grooves to print the stamp image.
Date: 1961, Northern Territory

There is a heavy irony in the stamp image. The stamp shows the Aboriginal stock man as skilled, hardworking and a useful member of the Australian community, rather than the stereotypes often associated with Aboriginal people (McQueen, 1987, p.20).

The cattle industry in the Northern Territory was notorious for its exploitation of Aboriginal workers. In fact the release of the above stamp occurred only five years before the walk-off of some two hundred of the Gurindji from
the Wave Hill Station over the pay and living conditions of the pastoral industry (Read, 1995, p.291).

The Wave Hill walk-off had paved the way for the Aboriginal Land Rights (Northern Territory) Act 1976. In 1975 the Gurindji people bought the pastoral lease with grazing rights to part of the station. After the NT government threatened to resume the lease, the Gurindji lodged a land rights claim.

Question: If the stamp appeared 5 years later, would the Country Party have allowed it to be issued?

5s aboriginal stockman.png
5s issued stamp

5s replica card.jpg
5s Replica Card


You cannot make this stuff up. :idea: :idea:
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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

Paige also fails to find Humphrey McQueen's work:

McQueen, H. (1987). lmage, Design and Ideology in Australian Postage Stamps. Perth: Curtin University of Technology.

Also his journal article:

McQueen, H. (1988) The Australian Stamp Image: Design and Ideology. Arena, 84, 78-96. Link: https://surplusvalue.org.au/McQueen/aus_hist/Stamps%20McQueen.pdf

It is worth recapping who Humphrey McQueen actually is:

*he taught Australian history as a senior tutor at the Australian National University from 1970-1974.

*author of: A New Britannia: An Argument Concerning the Social Origins of Australian Radicalism (1970)

*author of: Aborigines, Race and Racism (1974)

*one of the most influential Leftist Australian historians of the post-war years and author of dozens of historical works.

You cannot make this stuff up. :idea: :idea:
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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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Paige tells us that Gwoja has not been "celebrated" until "recently", but here is a whole thesis on the contribution of Aboriginal artists to Australian stamp designs since the 1970s (the last 50 years):

Small piece of paper -- going out, flying around the world: A preliminary discussion on the reproduction of Aboriginal creativity on postage stamps.
Michael James Judd
Edith Cowan University 1998

https://ro.ecu.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://ww ... heses_hons

You cannot make this stuff up. :idea: :idea:

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by Tod.Moore »

The 1961 ‘Aboriginal Stockman’ engraved stamp is a gem, and well worth remembering. When it was issued, many Australians would still have had vivid memories of the hugely popular 1946 film ‘The Overlanders’. Two key characters in this film were First Nations pastoral workers, as noted in the Synopsis, published by the Australian National Film and Sound Archives:
‘With Australia’s north under threat of Japanese invasion in 1942, the government orders the withdrawal of all people and resources – a ‘scorched earth policy’. Delivering his mob of 1,000 prime beef cattle to the meatworks at Wyndham in Western Australia, drover Dan McAlpine (Chips Rafferty) is told to shoot them. He refuses and hatches a plan. He will drive the cattle to safety further south – a 2,600 km journey to Queensland at the wrong time of year across land that few believe can be crossed. Experienced drovers refuse the job, leaving only the desperates. McAlpine starts with ‘Corky’ Corkindale (John Fernside), an inveterate gambler and drinker from Ireland, and Hunter (Peter Pagan), a Scottish sailor who hates the sea. McAlpine is relieved when experienced beef man Bill Parsons (John Nugent Hayward) joins the drive with his wife (Jean Blue) and daughters Mary (Daphne Campbell) and Helen (Helen Grieve). Two Aboriginal stockmen, Jacky (Clyde Combo) and Nipper (Henry Murdoch), agree to come …’
https://aso.gov.au/titles/features/the-overlanders/notes/


Here is a detail from the film, which shows Clyde Combo next to Chips Rafferty.

'The Overlanders' 1946 film, detail with Clyde Combo.
'The Overlanders' 1946 film, detail with Clyde Combo.

Does anybody think that the 1946 film may have helped to inspire the 1961 stamp design, shown above in this Stampboards thread? Or for that matter, the decision to issue the 1950 and 1952 stamps? Cheers. Tod. :)

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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One Pound Jimmy 1-hour ABC Radio interview in 2010 with Jillian Barnes, Djon Mundine, Vernon ah Kee, Dick Kimber.


ABC Radio National
Presenter: Lorena Allam (ABC Radio National, Hindsight)
Broadcast date: Sunday 7 November 2010 2:00PM
Duration: 54 min 57 sec

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/archived/hinds ... my/2974226

Listen to the whole broadcast, hit the "download audio" link. :idea: :idea:

ABC Radio National wrote:The two lives of One Pound Jimmy

One Pound Jimmy (real name Gwoja Tjungarrayi) is the ultimate Aboriginal man. His face, his carriage, his profile are deeply embedded in the national consciousness as the blueprint for what an Aboriginal man should look like. In the 1950s, One Pound Jimmy was a million-selling postage stamp ... but where did he come from?

In the 1930s, as the story goes, a chance encounter took place in the remote, rocky desert east of Alice Springs between an ambitious young tourism executive from Melbourne and a young Warlpiri-Anmatyerre man.

The Melbourne man was touring Australia by car, searching for spectacular pictures and adventure stories for a new tourism magazine, Walkabout. The Aboriginal man was walking south to a large ceremonial gathering of clans with a senior companion. The Melbourne man took a series of (staged) photographs. During the following 30 years these captured images played a significant role in the definition of Australian Aboriginality.

But that story, not to mention One Pound Jimmy, was an invention, an idea, a construct.

The real Gwoja Tjungarrayi lived in a world utterly different from the one invented for him by the tourism trade.

The program explores the parallel lives of One Pound Jimmy and Gwoja Tjungarrayi with historians, artists and curators, and examines the way that particular image has affected subsequent mainstream representations of Aboriginality, even the way Aboriginal people see themselves.


You cannot make this stuff up. :idea: :idea:

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

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One thing that was very apparent from the 2010 Radio National interview was that neither Jillian Barnes, Djon Mundine, Vernon ah Kee, or Dick Kimber or anyone else claimed that Jimmy was on, or inspired, the 1988 $2 coin, which by then had been on issue for 22 years.

jimmy and coin comparison.jpg


You cannot make this stuff up. :idea: :idea:

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Re: Australian Aboriginal "One Pound Jimmy" Cinderella stamps

Post by MJ's pet »

This is from We, The Aborigines by Douglas Lockwood (1918-1980) (First Edition, 1963). The book is still in print (2019).

we the aborigines 1963.jpg


No mention of Lockwood by Paige Gleeson. People point out this this book is available in her local University Library:

library graphic.png


You cannot make this stuff up. :idea: :idea:

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