Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

We all have and handle these from time to time. "Back of book", Revenues, "Cinderellas", duty stamps and all kinds of other stamp like labels. Discuss them all HERE!

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
25 Jan 2021 07:14
Iain P wrote:
24 Jan 2021 22:29

But then I had a closer look at the 2 of 2 ⅝d stamps. There's already an entry for 2 ⅝d, 'value typewritten in black' on reddish violet, date range 1918-30, so I'd put them in that set, Set 013.

Image


However, the detail is in the dot! There are 2 variants for this type, Type 1a and 1b. There is a subtle difference in the writing of "design" (too subtle for me) , a difference in the position of the D in Design, and a difference in the position of the dot after the N in Design.
All the current values in Set 013 are Type 1a: 'Dot further away from the N' and D of Design under 1 arc'.
However, the 2 ⅝d stamps have the dot very close to the N and the D is between the arcs, making these Types 1b, so these are new ones within the 013 Set, I think...

Image

I suspect the answer lies in the perf measurement. I'd think you have examples from the later set 073 which has a variety of perfs but none are the earlier perf 12 which the rest of your collection appear to be. Have you picked up a perf guage yet?
Their brighter colour is also a guide.
These may be perf 10¼ (073A) or 11 (073B). I'm also assuming the roll they came off is a later one, hopefully post-WW2. Still an unrecorded value nonetheless.
Ha, you are right of course Adam! I was so focused on dots and Ds I never stopped to check the perfs. I have a perf gauge now, and they do indeed measure 11. At least they are an unrecorded value so I'm not blushing too much.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

OK, here's a nice simple one which I can confidently (?) claim as a new find for the Peter Maurice Music Co.
Set 010 has the value printed in red, and the only other set, Set 023, has the value typewritten in black, so this 1 ½d value in manuscript is new. In fact I'm pretty sure this is a new set.

Peter Maurice Music Co.  1 ½d value in manuscript
Peter Maurice Music Co. 1 ½d value in manuscript


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
25 Jan 2021 08:41
OK, here's a nice simple one which I can confidently (?) claim as a new find for the Peter Maurice Music Co.
Set 010 has the value printed in red, and the only other set, Set 023, has the value typewritten in black, so this 1 ½d value in manuscript is new. In fact I'm pretty sure this is a new set.

Image

Yup, type 1, new set 011 Value in M/S. Keep up the good work!
Adam

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
25 Jan 2021 09:09
Iain P wrote:
25 Jan 2021 08:41
OK, here's a nice simple one which I can confidently (?) claim as a new find for the Peter Maurice Music Co.
Set 010 has the value printed in red, and the only other set, Set 023, has the value typewritten in black, so this 1 ½d value in manuscript is new. In fact I'm pretty sure this is a new set.

Image

Yup, type 1, new set 011 Value in M/S. Keep up the good work!
Adam
Thank you Adam, it's the successes like this that keep me going :D
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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

How marvellous! I have 5 stamps from the British copyright agency Copyrights Limited, all taken from Pianola rolls, and 4 of them are new finds.

First up is the 2d from Set 021 (1913-14) Type 2, manuscript in black.
"Stamps on Music" has the 2d listed.

Copyrights Limited stamp 2d
Copyrights Limited stamp 2d


But this 2 ¼d is new:

Copyrights Limited stamp 2 ¼d
Copyrights Limited stamp 2 ¼d


And this 4d is new, as well as the value being rotated to the left:

Copyrights Limited stamp  4 d
Copyrights Limited stamp 4 d


The 4th stamp is yet another new one.
At first I thought it was perhaps a rotated 'rubbed' 4d, but looking at the scan close up, I see I was initially confused by the small green dot in the centre of the circle, which all of this set have. It's clearly a '7', making it, I think, the highest value of any of the Copyrights stamps so far seen. This places it in Set 022 (1913-14) Type 2, Value stamped in violet.
It looks more blue here than violet, presumably because it is so faded:

Copyrights Limited stamp 7d
Copyrights Limited stamp 7d


I initially thought that the last one belongs to Set 050 (1916-18) Type 4b, typeset in black.
With a typed value of 5 ¼d it's a new one, as the only other 5 ¼d I can see listed in the catalogue is for a value written in manuscript. However Set 050 Type b is for typeset values, whereas this one is typewritten, and is in a different font than the example for 2b given on the catalogue. Perhaps it's a new subset of Set 50, or even a new Set?

Copyrights Limited stamp 5 ¼d
Copyrights Limited stamp 5 ¼d


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

All good new finds. There's a lot of the UK sets that stop at around 3d in the catalogue so there's plenty of scope for extra higher value items off pianola rolls.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Excellent! The UK Lockdown means I'm not allowed to pick up the next 90 Pianola rolls, all with stamps on, until March or even April, but I still have plenty more to go through here.
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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Continuing listing examples of the J. Albert & Son stamps, by the catalogue order.
All type 4a.
These two around 1926, perf 11.
Set 072 1¼d handstamped
Set 072 1¼d handstamped
Set 073 1/- typewritten
Set 073 1/- typewritten


This set 1927-30, perf 10.
Set 080 1¼d
Set 080 1¼d
Set 080 1¼d small "d"
Set 080 1¼d small "d"
Set 080 1½d
Set 080 1½d
Set 080 1½d small "d"
Set 080 1½d small "d"
Set 080 8d (perf 10x11)
Set 080 8d (perf 10x11)

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

J. Abert & Son continued.


1929-32.
Set 090, type 4a, perf 10 (unless noted), chalk-surfaced, serif font.
Set 090 ¾d
Set 090 ¾d
Set 090 1d
Set 090 1d
Set 090 1¼d
Set 090 1¼d
Set 090 2d
Set 090 2d
Set 090 2½d
Set 090 2½d
Set 090 3½d
Set 090 3½d
Set 090 3½d (a) in black, perf 11, unsurfaced
Set 090 3½d (a) in black, perf 11, unsurfaced
Set 090 6d (ex pianola rolls)
Set 090 6d (ex pianola rolls)
Set 090 8d (ex pianola rolls)
Set 090 8d (ex pianola rolls)
Set 090 8d (a) perf 11
Set 090 8d (a) perf 11
Set 080 8d (c) in black
Set 080 8d (c) in black
Set 090 "A" (for Australia)
Set 090 "A" (for Australia)

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

These J. Albert & Son stamps look great. I wasn't expecting to find them here in the UK but yesterday I bought 60+ Pianola rolls from someone who inherited them from his grandfather, and some from his great grandfather, and they mostly have Australian stamps on, and many are Albert & Son. I'm bracing myself before diving it to try and ID them soon.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Adam, I'm hoping you will be able to shed some light on this puzzle.
I bought some stamps on eBay, advertised as "Revenue Stamps page of bits". The page had 15 music copyright stamps on, none particularly interesting apart from one. I couldn't find the issuer, Chapman & Hall Ltd, in Stamps on Music, but that's not surprising, as looking online afterwards, I see that they were not a music publisher!

"Chapman & Hall is an imprint owned by CRC Press, originally founded as a British publishing house in London in the first half of the 19th century by Edward Chapman and William Hall. Chapman & Hall were publishers for Charles Dickens (from 1840 until 1844 and again from 1858 until 1870), William Thackeray, Elizabeth Barrett Browning, Anthony Trollope, Eadweard Muybridge and Evelyn Waugh." (Wikipedia)

I thought the stamp might be for a book, but again I can't find any reference to a royalty stamp issued by them.

I see that it looks quite similar in design to your Clowes & Sons stamp here: https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=91537&p=6858938#p6858938

This made me wonder if perhaps it is a music stamp after all. It's clear, looking at the back, that it's been taken off a yellowish substrate, which might indicate that it had been taken off a record label.
It seems odd that the text says "Royalty Payable to". Does this mean, perhaps, that it's not a copyright stamp after all, as it's not a stamp showing that a royalty has been paid to the artist /composer??
The printed circle is exactly 8mm in diameter.

Chapman & Hall Ltd stamp
Chapman & Hall Ltd stamp

Back of Chapman & Hall Ltd stamp
Back of Chapman & Hall Ltd stamp


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Well Iain, I reckon this is another general copyright stamp, same as those found on books for RL Stevenson and Jarrolds. 3d is a common value as it stood for books sold for 2/6d.
An excellent find.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Thanks Adam, I'm pleased I took a chance on this then!

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

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I bought about 60 Pianola rolls last week, and around 40 of the rolls have stamps on them. At least 5 are worth sharing here, and at least one is a new sighting I think.

First up is the Consolidated Music Corporation 6 cent BROADWAY from Set 010, date range 1917-18. These were issued in coils.
It's not a particularly rare stamp, but it's my first one, and a very pretty one I'd say.

Broadway 6c Consolidated Music Corp. Stamp
Broadway 6c Consolidated Music Corp. Stamp


The next one is an Allan & Co 2d stamp.
"Stamps on Music" lists this design as Set 053 Type 3, and there is a 2 d there, but these are typewritten in black.
Set 052 also has this design, but that one has the value and W.G.C hand stamped on it.
So as far as I can tell, a Type 3, typewritten in violet, doesn't fit into the current sets.

Allan's Type 3, 2d stamp
Allan's Type 3, 2d stamp


The third stamp is a Boosey & Co, Set A011, (c1922) Type A1.
What's interesting about this one is it has "No 10" handwritten on it, as well as the 4d value. I can't find a reference to this in the catalogue so perhaps it's something new.

Boosey & Co, Set A011 Type A1 stamp
Boosey & Co, Set A011 Type A1 stamp


And the final two are the most intriguing of all. They are Mecolico stamps, Type 1a, I believe, but I can't find any reference to letters like this being stamped on any of them.
It's noteworthy that as well as the A appearing above the PS in the first stamp but below the PS in the second, the fonts are different in the 2 stamps. The Mecolico issues are spread over 6 pages in the catalogue, so it's possible I'm missing something but I don't think so.

Mecolico Type 1a stamps with letter P,S & A
Mecolico Type 1a stamps with letter P,S & A


Here are the stamps on the German rolls before being soaked off. I haven't been able to ID the composer in the first roll, but Theodor Leschetizky was Polish and later lived in Germany. I wonder if this helps identify the meaning of the A.P.S / P.S.A!

Mecolico Type 1a stamp on pianola roll
Mecolico Type 1a stamp on pianola roll

Mecolico Type 1a stamp on pianola roll
Mecolico Type 1a stamp on pianola roll

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

I'm hoping this stamp is as special as it appears to be!
Firstly, many thanks to Kevin McElhone, author of ‘Mechanical Music’, who very kindly allowed me to have the stamp and to soak it off the rare and expensive pianola roll to which it was attached.

Aug Cranz copyright stamp on piece
Aug Cranz copyright stamp on piece


August Cranz was a German music publisher. There are two Aug. Cranz stamps shown in 'Stamps on Music' but they are both very different to this one.
I understand from Kevin (and hopefully I understood him correctly) that the 65-note (6-holes per inch) roll was superseded after 1908 by the 88-note (9-holes per inch) rolls, and although the 6 per inch rolls continued to be made for a few years after this time, the roll certainly is pre- First World War.
It seems there are currently no dates for the Aug Cranz stamp issues, but since the copyright stamps were not in use until 1912, we can date this one to 1912-14.
It was only when it was off the roll that I realised it's actually embossed with the name too.
It's not very clear from the front:

Embossing on Aug Cranz stamp
Embossing on Aug Cranz stamp


But is very clear from the back:

Embossing on back of Aug Cranz stamp
Embossing on back of Aug Cranz stamp


The stamp is large, compared to most copyright stamps, with the detail measuring 35mm x 25mm.
Google translates 'Aufführungsrecht vorbehalten' as:
'Performing rights reserved'.

Aug Cranz stamp
Aug Cranz stamp


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
27 Mar 2021 04:31
I bought about 60 Pianola rolls last week, and around 40 of the rolls have stamps on them. At least 5 are worth sharing here, and at least one is a new sighting I think.

First up is the Consolidated Music Corporation 6 cent BROADWAY from Set 010, date range 1917-18. These were issued in coils.
It's not a particularly rare stamp, but it's my first one, and a very pretty one I'd say.

Image

These variously named coil stamps from the USA, 1917-8 are so far the only coil copyright stamps I'm aware of. About 18 names so far recorded, including Witmark, Stasny, Joe Morris & Remick.
Given how keen many US collectors are about their other proprietary revenue stamps, like match and perfume, I'm surprised they haven't studied these in more detail.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
27 Mar 2021 04:31
I bought about 60 Pianola rolls last week, and around 40 of the rolls have stamps on them. At least 5 are worth sharing here, and at least one is a new sighting I think.

The next one is an Allan & Co 2d stamp.
"Stamps on Music" lists this design as Set 053 Type 3, and there is a 2 d there, but these are typewritten in black.
Set 052 also has this design, but that one has the value and W.G.C hand stamped on it.
So as far as I can tell, a Type 3, typewritten in violet, doesn't fit into the current sets.

Image


The third stamp is a Boosey & Co, Set A011, (c1922) Type A1.
What's interesting about this one is it has "No 10" handwritten on it, as well as the 4d value. I can't find a reference to this in the catalogue so perhaps it's something new.

Image

The Allans is a new value colour, violet rather than black.

The long-type Boosey & Co has been seen with several different manuscript inscriptions in the base - I have the same set with "No 6" and "No 26" at the base. I'll add footnote for the 3rd edition.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
27 Mar 2021 04:31
I bought about 60 Pianola rolls last week, and around 40 of the rolls have stamps on them. At least 5 are worth sharing here, and at least one is a new sighting I think.

And the final two are the most intriguing of all. They are Mecolico stamps, Type 1a, I believe, but I can't find any reference to letters like this being stamped on any of them.
It's noteworthy that as well as the A appearing above the PS in the first stamp but below the PS in the second, the fonts are different in the 2 stamps. The Mecolico issues are spread over 6 pages in the catalogue, so it's possible I'm missing something but I don't think so.

Image


Here are the stamps on the German rolls before being soaked off. I haven't been able to ID the composer in the first roll, but Theodor Leschetizky was Polish and later lived in Germany. I wonder if this helps identify the meaning of the A.P.S / P.S.A!

Image

Image
I assume these rolls also were in the pile ex Australia, implying the "A" stands for Australia, being the export destination. The "PS" could refer to "PHILIPPS" who produced the PHILAG (Philipps AktienGesellschaft) rolls. Your guess is as good as mine. Can you put a date on the rolls? And confirm the perf guage?
Adam

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
31 Mar 2021 08:37
I'm hoping this stamp is as special as it appears to be!
Firstly, many thanks to Kevin McElhone, author of ‘Mechanical Music’, who very kindly allowed me to have the stamp and to soak it off the rare and expensive pianola roll to which it was attached.

Image


August Cranz was a German music publisher. There are two Aug. Cranz stamps shown in 'Stamps on Music' but they are both very different to this one.
I understand from Kevin (and hopefully I understood him correctly) that the 65-note (6-holes per inch) roll was superseded after 1908 by the 88-note (9-holes per inch) rolls, and although the 6 per inch rolls continued to be made for a few years after this time, the roll certainly is pre- First World War.
It seems there are currently no dates for the Aug Cranz stamp issues, but since the copyright stamps were not in use until 1912, we can date this one to 1912-14.
It was only when it was off the roll that I realised it's actually embossed with the name too.
It's not very clear from the front:

Image


But is very clear from the back:

Image


The stamp is large, compared to most copyright stamps, with the detail measuring 35mm x 25mm.
Google translates 'Aufführungsrecht vorbehalten' as:
'Performing rights reserved'.

Image

This is only the third Cranz stamp I'm aware of, and is also the first I've seen bearing any embossing.
Stamps in Europe were in use before 1912 (which was the date in the UK). France was c.1906 and Germany from 1909 so this could well be pre-1912. Stamps on the 65-note rolls are seldom seen, as noted they were phasing out as the stamps were coming in.

The two I do know of (from scans ex other collectors) are also large size and ex pianola rolls.
August Cranz copyright stamp type T1
August Cranz copyright stamp type T1
The overprint means "Not valid for phonographic reproduction through records"

August Cranz copyright stamp type T2
August Cranz copyright stamp type T2
The inscription reads "Licence stamp only valid for disc records"

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Thanks Adam for the useful information and correction. I hadn't realised the French and German stamps could be earlier than the UK ones. I'll get back to you regarding the other points, but wanted to share another slightly puzzling stamp, a Francis-Day, Set E032.

This has been hiding under a very strongly glued blank label on a c1930 78rpm record for months. I only noticed there was a stamp under the label a couple of days ago. It took a lot of soaking to reveal it, but the damage was already on the stamp beforehand.

Francis-Day stamp, Set E032.
Francis-Day stamp, Set E032.


I've no idea what the "vane" in manuscript refers to. Presumably it was written on the stamp later, and not part of the original issue.
"Stamps on music" lists the names of the various countries for which these stamps were issued for Europe and Colonies, and this one, hand-stamped in violet, is clearly SUISSE.

But actually it's not so clear, as a closer look shows it to be SUISSB.

The first thought was that the ink had been over-applied and the E had run to make it appear like a B, but the end letter was definitely never an E! I can only imagine this is an error in the original hand-stamping.

Francis-Day, Set E032. SUISSB
Francis-Day, Set E032. SUISSB


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
02 Apr 2021 08:22
Thanks Adam for the useful information and correction. I hadn't realised the French and German stamps could be earlier than the UK ones. I'll get back to you regarding the other points, but wanted to share another slightly puzzling stamp, a Francis-Day, Set E032.

This has been hiding under a very strongly glued blank label on a c1930 78rpm record for months. I only noticed there was a stamp under the label a couple of days ago. It took a lot of soaking to reveal it, but the damage was already on the stamp beforehand.

Image


I've no idea what the "vane" in manuscript refers to. Presumably it was written on the stamp later, and not part of the original issue.
"Stamps on music" lists the names of the various countries for which these stamps were issued for Europe and Colonies, and this one, hand-stamped in violet, is clearly SUISSE.

But actually it's not so clear, as a closer look shows it to be SUISSB.

The first thought was that the ink had been over-applied and the E had run to make it appear like a B, but the end letter was definitely never an E! I can only imagine this is an error in the original hand-stamping.

Image

HI Iain

I'm not convinced it's a "B". The simplest explanation is an over-inked "E". This "BELG" example shows that it wouldn't take much to achieve that effect.
BELG handstamp on Francis Day stamp
BELG handstamp on Francis Day stamp

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
02 Apr 2021 08:51
Iain P wrote:
02 Apr 2021 08:22
HI Iain

I'm not convinced it's a "B". The simplest explanation is an over-inked "E". This "BELG" example shows that it wouldn't take much to achieve that effect.
Image
That does make more sense Adam. OK I'll bow to your explanation :)


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

For years now I've been putting out an intermittent Newsletter on these stamps, as a PDF on my website.
Newsletter #6 is now up, as are all the previous ones, at http://www.78rpm.net.nz/mechcopy/mech.htm.
This latest one focusses on the printed copyright indicia often used in place of stamps on record labels after c.1925. Almost all are unvalued but a few also bear a printed value, so as obvious "revenue-stamped paper", I've listed all I can find. Always happy to learn of more.
Cheers,
Adam

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
16 May 2021 09:38
For years now I've been putting out an intermittent Newsletter on these stamps, as a PDF on my website.
Newsletter #6 is now up, as are all the previous ones, at http://www.78rpm.net.nz/mechcopy/mech.htm.
This latest one focusses on the printed copyright indicia often used in place of stamps on record labels after c.1925. Almost all are unvalued but a few also bear a printed value, so as obvious "revenue-stamped paper", I've listed all I can find. Always happy to learn of more.
Cheers,
Adam
These are very nice. I've got about 20 records with these, though none with any other names or values than you already have.
Iain

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

I bought this record today in an antiques centre. I can't make sense of the stamp on it, and I'm hoping that you can!
Searching online for Brazil + Stamp + 200 Reis pulls up lots of similar images but not this particular one."Consumo" means "Consumption" but I'm not sure how that fits in.
A search for the letters P.J.C.C didn't come up with anything useful either.

Perhaps they used postage stamps with overprints on them as copyright stamps, or perhaps this is something different altogether? Interesting that the stamps in the search are all perforated but this one is cut.

200 Reis stamp. Brazil
200 Reis stamp. Brazil

200 Reis stamp. Brazil. Overprint P.J.C.C
200 Reis stamp. Brazil. Overprint P.J.C.C


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adam78
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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

It's a tax stamp to probably show payment of some import duty. The initials are probably the importer. Ones for Chile are more commonly encountered though.
Adam

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

J. Abert & Son continued.
Late 1920s - early 1930s.

Set 090, type 4a, perf 10, chalk-surfaced, typewritten value.
Set 093 2½d T/W
Set 093 2½d T/W
Set 093 "NZ" T/W
Set 093 "NZ" T/W


Set 130 & 133, type 4c, perf 10, chalk-surfaced, printed or typewritten value. Large black signature.
Set 130 8d
Set 130 8d
Set 133 ½d T/W
Set 133 ½d T/W
Set 133 "A" T/W
Set 133 "A" T/W

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

J. Albert & Son continued.
Issues for New Zealand, 1927-circa 1950. Green with black "JAS" signature.


1927. Set 110, perf 11, thin font for "NZ".
Set 110 unvalued
Set 110 unvalued


1929-30. Set 120, perf 10, chalk surfaced. Serif font for "NZ".
Set 120 unvalued
Set 120 unvalued
Set 120 1 3/8d typeset in black
Set 120 1 3/8d typeset in black


1932-50. Set 122, perf 10, chalk surfaced, value handstamped.
Set 122,  1½d handstamped
Set 122, 1½d handstamped


1932-50. Set 123, perf 10, chalk-surfaced, value typewritten in black,
Set 123 1½d T/W
Set 123 1½d T/W
Set 123, 1½d T/W var wide spacing
Set 123, 1½d T/W var wide spacing
Set 123 1 3/8d T/W
Set 123 1 3/8d T/W
Set 123 1 3/8d T/W in red
Set 123 1 3/8d T/W in red

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

I've managed to pick up around 120 pianola rolls recently, and most have stamps, so hopefully there will be some new finds amongst them.
Here's the first one which I think is new. In Stamps on Music, there are Set numbers for Typeset values and Revalued under Irving King Music, but not for Manuscript, so this 8d is hopefully a new find:

Irving King copyright music stamp 8d
Irving King copyright music stamp 8d


The 4 ¼d value is not currently listed in the Metzler set 011, so this could be new too.

Metzler music copyright stamp set 011 4 ¼d
Metzler music copyright stamp set 011 4 ¼d


And possibly another with this 6¾d : currently the highest Typewritten value listed under Hawkes & Son is 5 ¼d (set 013, typewritten in black)

Hawkes & Son  6¾d Music Copyright stamp
Hawkes & Son 6¾d Music Copyright stamp


In the Cambridge Music Co listings there isn't currently a set number for Manuscript values. I'd listed this 2¼d one here previously, but it's not easy to make out the value:

Cambridge Music copyright stamp 2¼d
Cambridge Music copyright stamp 2¼d


so here's another, in better condition:

Cambridge Music copyright stamp 2¼d
Cambridge Music copyright stamp 2¼d


Actually, I just noticed that this stamp in in a different orientation to the previous one and to the typeset example in Stamps on Music, so perhaps it should look like this, in which case, the value is rotated 90 degrees.

Cambridge Music copyright stamp 2¼d side on
Cambridge Music copyright stamp 2¼d side on


And finally for today, 3 Lawrence Wright 1 ½d stamps. I can't remember if I've shared the first 2 before, but the third one is a new one for me. There are 2 different font types(?) so it's a little complicated, as the Lawrence Wright stamps are spread over 4 pages so there's plenty of room for mistakes...
I think they belong in set 020 Type 2 (frame in colour in a variety of font sizes). The fractions measure 3mm. There is no 1 ½d currently listed in that category so perhaps one or both are new?

Lawrence Wright copyright music stamps  1 ½d
Lawrence Wright copyright music stamps 1 ½d

Lawrence Wright copyright music stamps  1 ½d
Lawrence Wright copyright music stamps 1 ½d


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain,
Those are all new, keep up the good work.
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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Princestamps »

Hi Adam'

I am doing a talk to a stamp club about these and will be quoting you and your research if okay. I find them fascinating and admit most of mine are attached to old 78 records which I collect.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

No problem at all. Hope the talk's not affected by the latest lockdown. :?

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

J. Albert & Son continued.
Earlier issues handstamped "¾d", early 1930s. This was the minimum royalty payable, and would apply to tunes on any record sold for 2/6d or less.
There are three types of the handstamp.
¾d thin 'd'
¾d thin 'd'
¾d wide 'd'
¾d wide 'd'
¾d flat-top '3'
¾d flat-top '3'


Set 107A - on Set 060 carmine, yellow-green
¾d on 4d
¾d on 4d
¾d on 4¼d
¾d on 4¼d
¾d on 7¼d
¾d on 7¼d
¾d on 8½d
¾d on 8½d


Set 107B - on Set 070B carmine, green, perf 11.
¾d on 2¼d
¾d on 2¼d


Set 070C - on Set 080 carmine, green, perf 10, chalk-surfaced.
¾d on 1½d
¾d on 1½d


Set 070D - on Set 090 vermilion, yellow-green, perf 10, chalk-surfaced.
¾d on 1¼d
¾d on 1¼d
¾d on 1½d
¾d on 1½d
¾d on 2½d
¾d on 2½d

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Jon E »

This is an area I'm not that familiar with, however at the weekend I did pick up a number of 78rpm records which had some stamps on them, so thought I'd post them here in case they provide anything new, they aren't in best condition (neither are the 78's):
Selection of stamps
Selection of stamps
Some records have one stamp on just one side, some have two stamps one on each side and sometimes of different types. One particular record company seems to have stamps that are circular stamps cut (or punched even) from the square stamps, indeed you can still see perforations at the edge, an odd thing to do:
1 record, 2 sides, different labels cut into circles
1 record, 2 sides, different labels cut into circles
The design of some records seem to have an area set aside for a stamp - though maybe this is just coincidence:
Neatly placed in a space.
Neatly placed in a space.
Finally this one looks like its a kind of stamp that's part of the record labeling:
Design as part of record label ?
Design as part of record label ?
I don't know if this is anything new, but if better scans or more information is needed the stamps are being left on the records for now so just ask.

TTFN,
Jon
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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Hi Jon and welcome to this thread.

As the collecting of these fascinating revenue stamps is still relatively new, it is not hard to make new finds. The full catalogue Stamps on Music remains available via lulu.com but a sampler of some of the more common GB issuers is available as a PDF here: http://www.78rpm.net.nz/mechcopy/Book/Stamps%20on%20Music%202nd%20Edition%20Sampler%20GB.pdf

While most of yours are relatively common, the Sharples 1¼d in manuscript is new to the catalogue (currently only the 1¾d has been recorded) so well done!

All Walsh Holmes & Co are Rare to Very Rare. If that mark is supposed to be a "1" then so far only 1-2 copies of that are recorded.

Re the punched stamps - almost all records pressed by Edison Bell (J E Hough Ltd) which included Winner, Velvet Face and Rexophone had the stamps punched. We're not sure why, possibly to reduce the area of their labels covered by the stamp. While many other record companies started setting aside a space for the stamp, they didn't.

Cheers
Adam

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Jon E »

adam78 wrote:
28 Sep 2021 07:53
Hi Jon and welcome to this thread.

As the collecting of these fascinating revenue stamps is still relatively new, it is not hard to make new finds. The full catalogue Stamps on Music remains available via lulu.com but a sampler of some of the more common GB issuers is available as a PDF here: http://www.78rpm.net.nz/mechcopy/Book/Stamps%20on%20Music%202nd%20Edition%20Sampler%20GB.pdf
Thanks for that Adam. I will put a couple of pages together for these and its nice to have some information for them.
adam78 wrote:
28 Sep 2021 07:53
While most of yours are relatively common, the Sharples 1¼d in manuscript is new to the catalogue (currently only the 1¾d has been recorded) so well done!

All Walsh Holmes & Co are Rare to Very Rare. If that mark is supposed to be a "1" then so far only 1-2 copies of that are recorded.
I can send better scan(s) if needed for the catalogue. Whilst I will attempt to remove some of the more common stamps (I'll try the damp paper towel method described in previous posts), I can see where the gramophone needle went through the Sharples one and as such it would only come off in three pieces so will leave that in place, though that begs the question what to do with it.
adam78 wrote:
28 Sep 2021 07:53
Re the punched stamps - almost all records pressed by Edison Bell (J E Hough Ltd) which included Winner, Velvet Face and Rexophone had the stamps punched. We're not sure why, possibly to reduce the area of their labels covered by the stamp. While many other record companies started setting aside a space for the stamp, they didn't.
The circles are about as tall and wide as the original stamp, so wont really reduce coverage by much. They are too circular to have been done by hand, so I wonder if they were actually applied by machine which no doubt could punch them out easier than tearing along perfs?

TTFN,
Jon
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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

To punch out the circular stamps I always imagined they used things like this and cheap labour.
There seem to be 5 different sizes from 13mm to 19mm, and rough edges and poor centering on some (as well as just expediency) implies they would punch out several sheets at once if required.
It's possible they set up jigs to do a row at a time, possible as most UK issuers were the standard ¾" size, and I'd assume a standard sheet size also.
Hole punch set
Hole punch set

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