What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

We all have and handle these from time to time. "Back of book", Revenues, "Cinderellas", duty stamps and all kinds of other stamp like labels. Discuss them all HERE!

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britjag
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What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by britjag »

Toss them? Keep cool ones only and label them as being dubious issues unlikely ever used for postage? Use them as wallpaper?

Trying to make space in stock books and moving stamps over fom the Stanley Gibbons album I have and decide whether those Sharjah 1972 Olympics stamps or the Fujeira sheetlet I got as a kid living in England are worth anything to anyone.

I might think about swapping them, but don't want to annoy collectors who may balk at receiving these non-stamps.

Input appreciated.
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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by patg »

They usually end up in an envelope, in a shoe box, on a back shelve.

A bit ago I was looking for something else, when I came across one such envelope. Inside were several Tannu Tuva sets, that had gone unlisted in my old Scott's, but now were listed.

While not exactly "dune" type material, I guess at one time some of the sets were of dubious nature??

I suppose you could give them to a junior collector; but with so many legimate cheap stamps available, why start them with wallpaper, or sand dune issues (as they are often called) :D

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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by kerailija »

Here in Northern Europe quite many collect them (as they're listed on Michel). For example I've got several stock books filled with various Trucial stamps (all in good order).
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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by fromdownunder »

I never throw them away. There were a heap of them in my box of stamps given away for the One Million Post competition (which did fortunately contain over 100,000 real stamps as well), and I once gave away 100 pages of the damn things here. But, like a bad cold they just seem to turn up at my door step.

At the moment I have accumulated a 64 Page Stockbook full of them and I put them in order of issue and it is a quality Stockbook worth far more than the "stamps". I just could not help myself. A sign of OCD?

I have no genuine answer as to what to do with them, but just throwing them in the recycle bin does not seem right to my poor brain.

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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by aethelwulf »

patg wrote:A bit ago I was looking for something else, when I came across one such envelope. Inside were several Tannu Tuva sets, that had gone unlisted in my old Scott's, but now were listed.
Ah, Tannu Tuva (aka Touva) material.

I have a collection of this area, as an extension of my Mongolia collection. There's a good following for the 'early' material, that is the 1930s pictorials et al ("early" is a relative term in my mind when it comes to the philatelic history of this region). Forget the modern-day colourful jam-jar labels that are in the same category as all that other rubbish with Cyrillic inscriptions (Abkhazia, Dagestan, and 100 other places), those are just to scalp collector dollars, "as we all know".

The 1930s pictorials were frowned on in the past--ie. showing relatively foreign things like railways, and especially a zeppelin. But they did see postal use, albeit all the covers I see are philatelic.

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I believe Scott's policy is "show us postal history of Trucial States stamps used commercially, and we'll list the stamps". There are covers out there with the "wallpaper" stamps; most of them are from Bank of the Middle East, and fetch ca. $100-200 at auction. More prevalent are covers from the post office, but then they fall into the "commercial or philatelic?" debate.

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When I get Trucial States material, I throw it in a shoebox with other loose duplicates and packet material; eventually the stuff finds its way to a charity or youth group, as someone will be interested in the stamps, and all those colourful Sand Dunes issues of animals and sports are a good way to catch the eye of young people.
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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by Allanswood »

I don't mind "sand dunes" from actual countries. Their around here somewhere in the stamp den and there is plenty of thematic interest for collectors. Half the stamps we got growing up as kids are probably "sand dunes". But...
any I find from countries that never existed are just considered less than even cinderella's and are frowned upon.

Then again, I'm loath to throw even a damaged 1c stamp away - it goes into the craft project box. The local nursing home started craft projects using stamps and my nursing friend bought me one of their projects as a gift - it's a small traditional shaped (2 gallon) tin milk urn, now covered and varnished in used Aussie stamps! I love it!
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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by Finchley Chris »

Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly are "dunes" stamps?

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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by aethelwulf »

Finchley Chris wrote:Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly are "dunes" stamps?
Primarily refers to stamps issued by the emirates that make up the nowadays UAE -- Abu Dhabi, Ajman, Dubai, Fujeira, Ras al Khaima, Sharjah, Umm al Qiwain.

You could also include on that list places like Upper Yaffa (a piece of Yemen I believe) and other pseudo-states.

Basically Arabian Peninsula ... sand dunes ... "Sand Dune countries".
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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by Allanswood »

And has grown to encompass any stamps that weren't actually used as stamps, but mass produced, often printed with a cancellation having never seen an envelope or gone through the postal service and packaged up for us kids to hoover up by the gazillions in the 70's and 80's in packets.

Many island nations, some western euro counties, some African countries included.
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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by Finchley Chris »

Many thanks for the clarification.

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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by norvic »

Finchley Chris wrote:Many thanks for the clarification.
Funny how nobody has asked for pictures on this thread to help the members who "have absolutely no idea what you are writing about!" to quote our leader on other similar threads :!: :)
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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by mozzerb »

norvic wrote:
Finchley Chris wrote:Many thanks for the clarification.
Funny how nobody has asked for pictures on this thread to help the members who "have absolutely no idea what you are writing about!" to quote our leader on other similar threads :!: :)
They have pictures now? Whatever will they think of next?

Well now, hang on, I do believe this may be one of them:

Image

Philatelic mail, but postally used, and the story means it fits nicely into my "Philatelic Mail" collection. (If anyone's got a Stamps of the World handy, is this set catalogued or Appendixed?)

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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by britjag »

Well, I really appreciate the feedback. Guess I will slip a few into WW packets I may swap with European collectors and no one else!

Of course, they are stuck in an old Stanley Gibbons I'm deconstructing so after 40 or so years they could tear or thin.

I will keep the soccer topicals even if the artwork is a bit dodgy.

Surprised to see how many collectors regard them affectionately from childhood.

They sure are pretty labels, but would love to find some postally used as another poster pointed out.

Thank you all again.
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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by fromdownunder »

britjag wrote:Surprised to see how many collectors regard them affectionately from childhood.
It's called (at least by me) the Nostalgia gene. When I win the lottery, I intend to donate all the money I win in search of this gene, which when discovered will allow me to rule the world by inventing nostalgia pills.

Or something like that...or maybe not...

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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by aethelwulf »

fromdownunder wrote:
britjag wrote:Surprised to see how many collectors regard them affectionately from childhood.
It's called (at least by me) the Nostalgia gene. When I win the lottery, I intend to donate all the money I win in search of this gene, which when discovered will allow me to rule the world by inventing nostalgia pills.
Sounds like Brain Candy by Kids in the Hall.
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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by Jack »

What is now the UAE (Shrajah, Umm al Qiwain etc) stamps on cover from the Post Offices are worth about £3-£6 on eBay. Such stamps on commercial usage (normally the British Bank of the Middle East or similar), would normally start at £70. Postal use of Stanley Gibbons catalogue listed stamps would be more...

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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by kelpiefarm »

So I just learned a new term ! I recently discovered my old stamp collection from the 70's when I was a kid ( finally unpacked some storage boxes) and 1 album is all horse stamps.

Lo and behold, I think they are "dunes" , so apparently totally worthless but still fun to look at and they certainly bring back memories of saving up my hard earned babysitting money to go and buy stamps :)

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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by aethelwulf »

kelpiefarm wrote:I think they are "dunes" , so apparently totally worthless but still fun to look at
'Yes' to the first, Umm al Qiwain is one of the emirates of the UAE.

Pretty much 'Yes' to the second, they don't have much commercial value.

But another thing that could make them worthless is being in a photo album. The 'sticky' from the pages tends to react badly with stamps over a long period of time. Don't blame yourself, many people used photo albums as stamp albums "back in the day".
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Rod Perry »

"What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?"

When they are on commercial cover, you put them in a safe place.

Ten years ago, I placed a few of those on eBay. I was so blown away by the results I wrote an article for Australasian Stamp News:
http://www.rap.com.au/vPages.asp?vPagesID=JUN%2008
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Re: What do you do with Dunes

Post by kelpiefarm »

Thanks Aethelwulf!...I know, it was certainly "back in the day" I was around 9 years old I think when I started collecting back in the 60's..I did graduate out of the photo album collecting to a proper stamp album and used hinges but I have yet to unearth my main album..still searching :)...oh and I cant figure out how to add the quoted message ?
aethelwulf wrote:But another thing that could make them worthless is being in a photo album. The 'sticky' from the pages tends to react badly with stamps over a long period of time. Don't blame yourself, many people used photo albums as stamp albums "back in the day".
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Rod Perry »

Lesson in Philately beyond the stamp?

These two "Sand dune" forerunners, used on 1954 airmail cover to Australia, sold recently on eBay:
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https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bahrain-1954-registered-airmail- ... 663.l44720
The Bahrain stamps catalogue 10p each in S.G. So why did they realize £192.75? (AU$356 approx.) A peek at the reverse indicates the cover originated in Qatar, which prior to 1957 used the stamps of Bahrain.

In Philately, never judge the book by its cover (unintended pun).

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by figmente »

Return address says Qatar, but what evidence is there that the cover entered a postal system there, rather than in Bahrain ?

Did Qatar P.O. use cancelers of Bahrain in addition to the stamps ?

If not, then it seems that it can't be credited as a cover from Qatar; If yes, then it seems that one can't tell.

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by fletches1 »

Personally I collect them.

Always happy to receive anything others don't want !!

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It's a form of Madness !! :P
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Rod Perry »

figmente wrote:Return address says Qatar, but what evidence is there that the cover entered a postal system there, rather than in Bahrain ?

Did Qatar P.O. use cancelers of Bahrain in addition to the stamps ?

If not, then it seems that it can't be credited as a cover from Qatar; If yes, then it seems that one can't tell.
A postal service in Qatar commenced May 18 1950.

That service was in Doha, administered by the British Political Officer.

British residents were able to send mail via that Officer.

Bahrain stamps were in use, and were cancelled upon arrival at Bahrain.

Clearly, the top two bidders for this item on eBay were satisfied of its origin.

Why aren't you?

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by figmente »

I asked because I did not know. No attack intended. Thank you for clarifying that no mail was canceled in Qatar in that era.

I admit to knowing nothing of the postal history of Qatar.

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Rod Perry »

figmente wrote:I asked because I did not know. No attack intended. Thank you for clarifying that no mail was canceled in Qatar in that era.

I admit to knowing nothing of the postal history of Qatar.
The best way to learn is to keep asking questions!

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by fromdownunder »

It needs to be said, as Rod has already suggested, that not all stamps from so called Sand Dunes Countries/Middle East are in fact Sand Dune Issues. My example comes from one of the Trucial States, Abu Dhabi (because I already had them scanned :D, and Abu Dhabi has been mentioned on this thread ). They are legitimate and sought after British Commonwealth items and Catalogue at over £500. I imagine that on genuine covers, the price would be somewhere in the clouds.

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My somewhat parochial definition of Sand Dunes are what Gibbons usually says they are, as most, if not all of them, never went near the supposed country of issue. Straight from the printer to the kiddies collector market. A prime example of this sort of issue are these San Dune 3D stamps which were on multiple layers of paper and plastic, had no gum, and weighed so much and were so thick that they wrecked the Hagners that they were on. Genuine "The Box" material. They could not even be put on an album page, as the hinge would not stick to the back.

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The next level down from Sand Dunes are stamps from places that actually exist, but are not populated, unless you count Seagulls. And I am not aware of the mailing habits of Seagulls.

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Below this again of course are stamps from places which simply do not exist at all.

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by GlenStephens »

Yes the term 'Sand Dune' issues in my mind anyway, relate to these silly fake topical looking CTO things made entirely for Kiddies packets etc, -
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Girish Vaidya »

under any case, in that glue lined album, they will melt away in a few years :shock:

I lost a large number of India used which I had lovingly stuck in that album pages, with a cellophane that stretches over them!!

All just melted away in front of my eyes!! I could salvage a few in a hot water soak, but a bitter lesson learnt!!

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Rod Perry »

fromdownunder wrote:It needs to be said, as Rod has already suggested, that not all stamps from so called Sand Dunes Countries/Middle East are in fact Sand Dune Issues. My example comes from one of the Trucial States, Abu Dhabi (because I already had them scanned :D, and Abu Dhabi has been mentioned on this thread ). They are legitimate and sought after British Commonwealth items and Catalogue at over £500. I imagine that on genuine covers, the price would be somewhere in the clouds. (** my emphasis)

Image

Norm
Quite so, Norm.

That beautiful 2r Bird of Prey, solo on a commercial cover, sold for approx US$3500 on eBay in early 2000s. Possibly worth much more today.

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Image
Got a spare set of the Kaulbach Island issue Norm? I am missing that one. I have everything else you show. :)

"Sand Dunes" to me only refer to the Arab Gulf issues as shown by fletches1.
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by fromdownunder »

Ubobo.R.O. wrote:Got a spare set of the Kaulbach Island issue Norm? I am missing that one. I have everything else you show. :)
I have not even got that set any more unless it is somewhere in my current "the box", which is now up to about 5K of off paper, all mixed up, so forgive me, but I shan't be looking for it. But it is more likely that it was in a mass of stuff I gave away ages ago.

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by GlenStephens »

fromdownunder wrote: But it is more likely that it was in a mass of stuff I gave away ages ago.

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by kelpiefarm »

[quote="Girish Vaidya"]under any case, in that glue lined album, they will melt away in a few years
Girish, that " glue lined" album happens to be mine that I just unearthed and so far they have held up for 50 years as I just turned 60 :)
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Girish Vaidya »

Good, may be the weather here was the deciding factor!!

Can you rearrange the stamps in that album? try with a low value definitive, just to test if the stamp can be removed from the album page to place elsewhere.

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by kelpiefarm »

Hi Girish!
Well, they didn't disintegrate, but they aren't going anywhere ! They are solidly stuck and if I try to remove them they will tear, so I guess they are forever ensconced in my 1970's psychadelic photo album !
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by fromdownunder »

kelpiefarm wrote:Hi Girish!
Well, they didn't disintegrate, but they aren't going anywhere ! They are solidly stuck and if I try to remove them they will tear, so I guess they are forever ensconced in my 1970's psychadelic photo album !
You could try soaking them off. I did it with an old, full cardboard Stockbook once. It took a while but all the stamps finished up in pretty good nick.

On the other hand keep them as a near perfect representation of "close encounters with stamps of the not preferred kind". :lol:



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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Allanswood »

The rubberized glue lines of those 70's photo albums will eventually go 'off', but good storage conditions means it may take years. Taking the plastic covers off a page and leaving it opened out will speed the process.

When they do go off and the stamps can be easily removed, (I found they eventually just fall off and move around behind the plastic flap), they will have lines across the back of the stamps as the glue lines will stain a bit. It usually doesn't show on the front.

I would not soak them, BUT, orange oil or eucalyptus oil should release them from the glue if your in a hurry.

Those old albums were a disaster for keeping things in, including treasured photos!
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Global Administrator »

Image
The horrid brown train lines were not glue, but acidic lines of WAX.

A few decades of ozzie heat and humility transfers that wax into the stamp paper and also bonds the paper to the wax.

The stamps or FDC are ruined essentially at that point.

Get rid of those books NOW. :idea:

Image

Image

As can be seen those brown "Tram lines" are WAX.

It will ***NEVER*** come out no matter what you do to treat it.

In our hot summers it semi-liquifies, and oozes into the stamp paper. And then browns with age - like the early self stick envelopes did on sealing flaps.

I was sold a pretty decent pre-Decimal MINT collection housed in those books.

Pages of MINT KGV and quite high value Roos etc all stuck tight onto the pages with greasy "Tram lines" on them all.

Value ~$20,000 had owner bought a $20 stockbook. I gave them $200 for it.

I sold it to someone here for $300 who felt they might be able to rescue some of them with care, but they reported it was a lost cause.

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by kelpiefarm »

Thanks everyone, at least it's just the Sand Dune horse collection that is in the album, everything else is either loose in boxes and envelopes or in plastic sleeves, so apparently I had some common sense 50 years ago!
Its "oh so psychadelic" lol!
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by kelpiefarm »

Finally unearthed my H.E.Harris Statesman Deluxe Album ( with spaces for 25,000 postage stamps of the world) circa 1966 and

lo and behold found more " sand dunes" . These ones have been attached to said album with those nifty little hinges

that had to be licked !

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by fletches1 »

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by kelpiefarm »

Moving on to Sharjah, my local stamp man must have loved me, I spent a lot of hard earned baby sitting money on these large, colourful stamps.

I cannot seem to find these exact ones online, but I am guessing they are 1967-ish?

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by kelpiefarm »

Last but not least, Mahra State , 1967 ? As this became Yemen, is it still a " sand dune" country ?

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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by RobRoyH »

Currently processing a mixture of Cinderella material that has a few "Sand Dune" issues sprinkled within. I make a page and save them... I just don't spend money on them. :D
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1976 Dhufar Olympics Issue
I think Dhufar qualifies as a Sand Dune. Certainly not listed in Scott and usually associated with Oman if I am not mistaken.
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Global Administrator »

Those kind of ugly things literally had the black ''cancel'' printed on, as part of the black plate in printer design. i.e. every sheet looks identical with ''cancel'' placement :roll: :roll:
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Gee I hope Princestamps doesn't see this thread ! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by AMark »

kelpiefarm wrote:Moving on to Sharjah, my local stamp man must have loved me, I spent a lot of hard earned baby sitting money on these large, colourful stamps.

I cannot seem to find these exact ones online, but I am guessing they are 1967-ish?

Image
kelpiefarm,

They are from 1970 - EXPO '70: Japanese Paintings
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by AMark »

kelpiefarm wrote:Last but not least, Mahra State , 1967 ? As this became Yemen, is it still a " sand dune" country ?

Image
These are from 1967 - Arabic artworks.

There are 9 stamps in the series.

Yes, a sand dune in 1967.
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Re: What do you do with "Sand Dunes" type stamps?

Post by jduester »

RobRoyH wrote:Currently processing a mixture of Cinderella material that has a few "Sand Dune" issues sprinkled within. I make a page and save them... I just don't spend money on them. :D

I think Dhufar qualifies as a Sand Dune. Certainly not listed in Scott and usually associated with Oman if I am not mistaken.
Dhufar was invented by Yusuf Tadros and Clive Feigenbaum, hoping to benefit from the fact that a "liberation" war was going on in Dhofar and that there were "liberated" areas. Actually, the stamp issuers not only had no connection to the Dhofar Liberation Front or the Peoples Front for the Liberation of Oman and the Arabian Gulf (PFLOAG) and the Peoples Front for the Liberation of Oman (PFLO) as it was finally known, but the "liberation front" actually denounced the issue of these stamps. The first issue (horses and map of Dhofar) actually appears on postally used FDCs sent from Damascus in June 1972, but after that Syria's postal authorities changed their mind and no longer supported the scheme. Nevertheless, the late Clive Feigenbaum continued to print Dhufar stamps until 1986. When I challenged him on that, he pretended that no one had ever told him that the original scheme (which enabled postal use of the stamps) had ceased to exist. Quite a character, Clive, and a bit of a cheek (some might say cheat), but always a gentleman and a great story teller, and I must admit that I liked him and enjoyed his company, his tales, and the meals we had together.

For more information on Dhufar stamps, you may wish to have a look at my notes on
http://www.oman.org/phil85.htm

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