Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

We all have and handle these from time to time. "Back of book", Revenues, "Cinderellas", duty stamps and all kinds of other stamp like labels. Discuss them all HERE!

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RogerE
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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by RogerE »

In the Stamps and Languages thread, I have gathered excerpts from the discussion I posted here earlier
and the helpful corrections and extra information supplied by Number-O-Ne
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=90529&start=587

I particularly liked this analogy:
Number-O-Ne wrote:
25 Nov 2020 08:31
My Latin alphabet analogy to explain the differences between Arabic language and Turkish written in Arabic letters is English and Polish:

Both use Latin letters, but Polish has its own version of some letters that give different sounds, and someone cannot go far in understanding Polish if all they speak is English
Thanks again, Number-O-Ne. If you look over the collected excerpts I have posted in the Stamps and Languages thread, you might find there are some further corrections and/or comments you would like to add there. Please feel welcome to do so!

/RogerE :D

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HalfpennyYellow
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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

Can someone identify this Greek cancel on an Ottoman revenue stamp please?

20201221_121815.jpg

I can make out "... ΤΗΣ ΕΛΛΑΔΟΣ" (which translates to "... OF GREECE") and it is dated "... ΝΟΕ. 1920", ie. November 1920.

This was around the time of the Treaty of Sèvres in which parts of the Ottoman Empire were under Greek occupation, so does the cancel signify that the stamp was used in an occupied territory? Or is it something else entirely, eg. a Greek bank in Constantinople?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by nigelc »

Hi,

The word before ΤΗΣ ΕΛΛΑΔΟΣ is ΤΡΑΠΕΖΑ (Bank) so we have ... BANK OF GREECE.

I can't make out the word before ΤΡΑΠΕΖΑ and it doesn't seem to fit with ΕΘΝΙΚΕ for the National Bank of Greece.

I see that the current Bank of Greece wasn't founded until 1927.
Nigel

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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

Thanks Nigel!

Yes that makes sense. I wonder if it could be ΕΘΝ. ΤΡΑΠΕΖΑ ΤΗΣ ΕΛΛΑΔΟΣ (with the first word abbreviated), which would seem to fit.

The text at the bottom of the cancel (possibly the location?) is completely illegible.
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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by Hermes61 »

Harryk wrote:
16 Nov 2020 13:15
Here are some stamps, on the first stamp the text is most likely in Armenian
Image
I see only two items that appear to have a connection with Greece.

The first is shown above on the right and has no connection to the Ottoman Empire, other that it shows an engraving by Loukia Maggiorou commemorating the 1821 Greek war of independence. The engraving was published in a relevant art book in 1945 in Athens and also appeared on the front page of the Communist Party of Greece newspaper (Rizospastis) on 25 March 1945 (the Greek independence war holiday). Maggiorou was married to engraver Anastasios Alevizos, or "Tassos", known for his celebrated engravings of Greek stamps of the 1950s and 1960s, and of Cypriot stamps of the 1970s and 1980s. I would safely assume it is a vignette issued for propaganda purposes with no postal value. I do not have the book, but I bet that the Katsiolis/Vanikiotis "Greek Cinderella Philately" catalog has more information on this vignette.

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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by Hermes61 »

Harryk wrote:
23 Nov 2020 14:40
There are two overprinted stamps. Text on the first stamp in Bulgarian
Image
The second item is the one on the right.

Indeed, it looks like it was affixed before the newspaper was printed. It is difficult to tell which newspaper it came from as there were several dozens of Greek language newspapers published in the late Ottoman Empire, but the text says something about "interest rates... steamships... gemstones... railways..." Too bad the stamp was soaked off. The value on paper would have been 10x and we would have had a piece of postal history!

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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

I obtained this stamp in a mixed lot some time ago but I never managed to identify it:

20210704_212553.jpg

It has the 'feel' of an Ottoman stamp - the Star & Crescent is similar to that used on both postage and revenue stamps issued by the empire - and the design is very similar to this 2 paras revenue stamp for newspaper and advertisements which is listed by Forbin as issued in 1885 (image source here), but this seems to be the only stamp of this design listed in the catalogue.

Turkey_1912_Sul5098.jpg

Can anyone help in identifying my stamp please?
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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by Uppercanadian »

Hi Halfpenny,

This is a "Petition" stamp printed during the reign of Sultan Abdulhamid between 1865 and 1873. In Turkish, it is call a Arzuhal Pullari.

There are 7 stamps of this same design. All appear to have the same cost of 1 piaster. But they come in different colours; violet, orange, rose (your stamp), yellow, green, deep blue, brown and grey. I am not sure what the colours indicate.

Petitions were a vital part of the Ottoman legal system. The shari'a court was the empire’s default dispute resolution forum, but subjects could also take their disputes to the Sultan via a petition. While petitions were addressed to the Sultan himself, in practice they were handled by the Divan-i Humayun (Imperial Council), presided over by the Grand Vizier. The ability of ordinary subjects to communicate directly with the highest organ in the Ottoman government was an important component of Ottoman legitimation strategies, and did much to tie the provinces to the center even as the central authority weakened during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.

The document would normally be prepared by a lawyer, or in the earlier days, there were professional petition-writers, known as arzuhalcison. A fee would have to be paid. As proof of payment, this stamp would be adhered to the petition and certified on the document. Not worth too much as a separate stamp, but on a petition, it is always of interest.
All the best,
Brad Fallon - maltonmanor at hotmail dot com

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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by RogerE »

Nice revenue stamp HalfpennyYellow, and excellent commentary, thanks to Uppercanadian.
Brad, can you give us a source/reference for your information?

/RogerE :D

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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by Uppercanadian »

Hi Roger,

It is the Revenue Stamps of Ottoman Empire & Early Period of Turkish Republic by Emir Eray Suleymaniye.

book1.jpg

book 2.jpg


The book is an A4 Size Hardcover with 587 pages. I got mine from Isfila - I don't think they are selling much these days though. They used to do a 2 volume stamp catalogue of regular issues every year + specialist catalogues.

Anyway, this book is all colour, and the pictures are great, but it is rather shy on detail. You have to flesh that out by other means.
All the best,
Brad Fallon - maltonmanor at hotmail dot com

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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by nigelc »

.
Hi Halfpenny, Brad and Roger,

These are also listed on p38 of the old McDonald revenue catalogue 2nd edition (1998) as produced in se-tenant strips of three items, made up of one revenue stamp like this in the centre and two other associated labels.

The images aren't clear but the comments are interesting:
.
Ottoman_Petitions_001_inv.jpg
.
Ottoman_Petitions_002_inv.jpg
Nigel

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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

Brad, Nigel and Roger - thanks a lot for the detailed replies! :D

I had never came across these petition stamps before, and I rechecked Forbin and I still can't find them - it's rather unusual that an entire set issued in the 1860s or 1880s (the two sources conflict regarding date of issue) was somehow overlooked in that catalogue.

It seems that they are not particularly common given their catalogue values of €20 or $10 per stamp. I did a quick search on eBay and I found a recent completed listing of a 1pi identical to mine together with a 5pi orange (seems to be no. 4420 in Suleymaniye) which sold for US $17.50.

It would indeed be interesting to see any of these used on documents.
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Re: Ottoman Empire and Greece. Cinderella and revenue

Post by RogerE »

Thanks especially to Uppercanadian [Mon Jul 05, 2021 14:05:13 pm
Those are brilliant pages you showed us from
Revenue Stamps of Ottoman Empire & Early Period of Turkish Republic by Emir Eray Suleymaniye.
Thanks also to nigelc for another reference.

All good information, showing us why revenue stamp collecting is a delightful field, even though it was often dismissed by "traditional" collectors.

/RogerE :D

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