Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Stampboards has 1000s of regular readers who WILL take the time to help out even with the most basic question. If you are new to stamps - or taking up the hobby after a long break, there is a lot to learn. PLEASE do not be shy in asking the simplest of questions .. members here will be delighted to help you with the answers!

Moderator: Volunteer Moderator Team

Post Reply
User avatar
luke_coolhand
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
Posts: 450
Joined: 11 Feb 2009 21:37
Location: Toolern Vale Victoria

Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by luke_coolhand »

.
Do I buy a facsimile of this $20,000 stamp or just leave it blank?

What do others do with those blank spaces until the lottery comes in?


s-l1600.jpg
Last edited by Global Administrator on 08 Sep 2021 13:56, edited 1 time in total.
Collecting predecimal Australian Used Blocks.

User avatar
Number-O-Ne
I was online for Post Number 7 MILLION!
I was online for Post Number 7 MILLION!
Posts: 947
Joined: 13 Oct 2020 10:21
Location: Loveland, Ohio, USA

Re: Facsimile or a gap what do you prefer?

Post by Number-O-Ne »

I collect postal history, so missing stamps are not relevant for me.

Personally, I would prefer a blank space if the real thing is not possible.

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 64822
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: Facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by Global Administrator »

.
You can buy a colour catalogue, or source some free stamp auction catalogues, and cut out all the photos and hinge them in.

A very cheap complete collection then. You can have complete collections of everything then.

In 45 years of stamp dealing have never seen it done, but you can be the FIRST one!

You can even buy a set of these, and add a white sticker to the front of each - quick and easy then - saves you cutting out all those photos - impress your friends, impress your cat -

''THE SUPERB STAMP COLLECTION OF LUKE COOLHAND''

sow18.jpg
.
ec8cb980.jpg
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

User avatar
luke_coolhand
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
Posts: 450
Joined: 11 Feb 2009 21:37
Location: Toolern Vale Victoria

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by luke_coolhand »

.
I was talking about $20000 stamp. Why are facsimiles available?

I'm not the first person to contemplate those annoying gaps which realistically will never be filled.
Collecting predecimal Australian Used Blocks.

User avatar
Number-O-Ne
I was online for Post Number 7 MILLION!
I was online for Post Number 7 MILLION!
Posts: 947
Joined: 13 Oct 2020 10:21
Location: Loveland, Ohio, USA

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by Number-O-Ne »

Fournier forgeries were actually not forgeries, but facsimiles later sold for fraudulent purposes.
This discussion is almost as old as philately itself

User avatar
Rigs
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1123
Joined: 10 Apr 2019 15:51
Location: Port Macquarie, Australia

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by Rigs »

'
Neither.

Rest assured if I come across a Prussian Blue in my travels I'll make space for it though. :D
.

User avatar
thecloudwatcher
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
Posts: 810
Joined: 21 Aug 2014 19:18
Location: London, United Kingdom

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by thecloudwatcher »

I'm happy enough to have a gap.

User avatar
Allanswood
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 16461
Joined: 02 Dec 2009 11:59
Location: Goulburn NSW Australia

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by Allanswood »

There's a GB album with a space for a prussian blue?
99.99% of them would always be a blank spot.

I'm in two minds. If someone could craft a nice genuine looking stamp, good colour, nice perfs (a proper quality copy) repo but with repo clearly marked on the back at a reasonable price - I'd be tempted, just to form an album page of "the impossible's".

Then again I can get close to that myself right now.

The problem is that there are those who make them now, but make no attempt to say their not real. And give them 10 years or so, some mug is going to either think they have found a fortune or try and sell one asking a fortune for a fake. It sours the market for everyone else and turns collectors off.


Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"

User avatar
ViccyVFU
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4006
Joined: 23 Feb 2018 23:49
Location: Harrogate, UK

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by ViccyVFU »

Allanswood wrote:
08 Sep 2021 22:26
There's a GB album with a space for a prussian blue?
Yep, SG Windsor has a dreaded space for a 456a ....

IMG_2800.JPG
Windsor Album space for SG 456a


In fact, its not even the most noticeable gap ....

IMG_2798.JPG
SG 043 plate 77


... and the answer on whether you run gaps, or fillers, depends......

If its just for you...
Do what you want, there are no rules, no one is kidded, no harm is done.

If its to show friends, clubs, (or, perish the thought, dealers) etc, then...
There is a generally accepted principal that "no one likes to be made a fool of", and translated to the stamp world, that means:

"If you are running facsimilies, forgeries, brochure cut-outs, or whatever, be UPFRONT about it".

I say that because "its important to match your audiences expectations, when showing your album pages".


Show your finished page to a dealer without the forgeries clearly marked, and you've just halved the value of the rest (If they offer, at all).

Show your finished page to a club, and it can seriously dint your reputation if you are found to be running unmarked forgeries.

Show your collection to friends..... oops, who am I kidding, you are a stamp collector, so they are the most likely made up part of the story.


I've seen it tackled in a few ways, over the years ...

1) Do nothing.
Leave it blank. There's no shame in not having a $20,000 stamp on a page in a book you own.
(Nobody cares, not even close relatives).

2) Find an illustrated dealer pricelist in colour of your target stamp, and cut round it, leaving a large black border.
(The SG catalogue idea won't work for GB stamps, as they are all reproduced at about 70% actual size, sometimes only feature one from the set, and have very poor colour matching).

Dealers are not fooled by this (although surprisingly, a few auction houses, and punters, are!!).

3) An advanced option of 2, scan and process the image to your desired specifications, and insert text of COPY on the face of the stamp, before printing.

p077_printed_copy.jpg
Scan of a real stamp, modified and printed at home.

Again, no deception. Dealers spot that in an instant, and price the rest.

4) If you have artistic flair, or access to a budding artist, get them to draw you "their version of it".
(Any size, you can always scale it at printing time).

draw.jpg
Hand drawn rare stamp

The hand drawn ones never fail to raise a smile looking at the pages "where gaps might be". :D

(And in your case, the corner letters could be LC, or did that dream fall by the wayside??)

User avatar
ViccyVFU
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4006
Joined: 23 Feb 2018 23:49
Location: Harrogate, UK

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by ViccyVFU »


So, for your particular question, I'd start with an Andrew Lajer Catalogue from last winter (2020), that featured an SG 456a on the cover (lifesize, or thereabouts).

img576.jpg
Andrew Lajer - Offers from Stock - Winter 2020


(I'm going to work on the premise that a spare £10k is not sitting in your account :D )

For your own personal and educational use, you can scan anything that fits on the scanner.

img577.jpg
Andrew G Lajer - SG456a Prussian Blue stock item (Winter 2020 Catalogue)


Maybe trim it a bit

img578.jpg

Add some clear wording : Black, red or yellow text seems to work well (but keep consistent)

sg456a_copy.jpg

... and finally shrink it to desired size.

sg456a_copy_small.jpg

It always seemed an enigma to me that SG did not give (/ sell) you a sheet of copys of the "unobtainables",
to place in their pre-printed albums (until your numbers came up).

(It seems like an obvious thing to do, but only if you have image rights on the original scans).

User avatar
polisciguy2011
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Posts: 238
Joined: 27 Jul 2018 10:39
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by polisciguy2011 »

Personally I prefer to leave things blank, but I also tend to use albums that have the stamp illustrated (some in color) so it doesn't look as broken-up to me. :)
--Zach

Collecting Interests: Benelux, Germany, Sarawak, KGV Silver Jubilee, Australia, Newfoundland

User avatar
gavin-h
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Posts: 33359
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 02:10
Location: West Coast of England

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by gavin-h »

luke_coolhand wrote:
08 Sep 2021 14:15
.

I'm not the first person to contemplate those annoying gaps which realistically will never be filled.
.
Don't get annoyed is my advice. Save being annoyed for world poverty, lying politicians or conspiracy theories.

Stamp collecting is a hobby, something to be chilled about, not annoyed about.

A gap is just a gap, not an earth-shattering problem. :idea:

User avatar
Derbyboi2
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
Posts: 906
Joined: 06 May 2020 08:01
Location: London, England

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by Derbyboi2 »

.
The most annoying thing is pre-printed stamp catalogues that have stamps that don't exist. I have a Palo New Guinea album (which I bought expecting it to contain the Territory of New Guinea only which I have complete).

Annoyingly it has all the GRI's in every setting (again I would need to win the lottery) and NWPI which I can nearly complete. There are spaces for SG76a and SG76ca (the 3d Die 2 Olive and the 3d Die 2 Greenish Olive). Unfortunately these do not exist as no first watermark 3d Die 2's in any shade were overprinted.

Similarly it has a space for SG103a which was expunged from the SG catalogue some years ago as it too does not exist for the same reason as the 3d. They also have places for stamps where only one example is known to exist (the NWPI 10/- OS puncture)

I have decided that home made pages are the best bet as they can cope with deletions and additions to the catalogue whereas pre-printed albums cannot.

Unfortunately you cannot fill a space where the stamp does not exist!

User avatar
PhilipAdams
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1925
Joined: 10 Sep 2014 07:49
Location: Yering in the Yarra Valley, Australia

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by PhilipAdams »

.
Let me echo the previous post. The only real way to deal with a gap which is likely to persist is by drawing up and printing your own pages.

It's time consuming, but ultimately satisfying. Personalised pages also assist when selling - most buyers value the additional care and attention to detail.

Philip

User avatar
steevh
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1233
Joined: 10 Nov 2011 19:22
Location: London, UK

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by steevh »

Alternatively, you could cut out a rectangle of blank paper from the same stock as your album pages, and paste it over the offending gap.

The principle is the same as producing a copy of the stamp, but the colour match is guaranteed to be accurate.

User avatar
ViccyVFU
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4006
Joined: 23 Feb 2018 23:49
Location: Harrogate, UK

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by ViccyVFU »

PhilipAdams wrote:
09 Sep 2021 16:59
Personalised pages also assist when selling - most buyers value the additional care and attention to detail.
Sheriff, "have you found this to be true"?

If you swapped the word "bunnies" for "buyers", I guess it might be, but knowledgeable buyers see the missing high values (or whatever) and realise "its a part set, that needs re-housing, with no chance of page re-use" (as its customised).

On a specialised collection, bespoke is often terrific, but on a general "one of everything", well, the clue is in the goal.

Dealers I know seem to like pre printed albums, as they know their way round them, and the gaps often tell you more about the collector than you think.

People should only price "on what they see", and, in assessing that, "time is money",
,,,, No one really wants to look up "if there was a higher value item in the set, that is not present".

Whilst it brings you joy "as your collection", do what you want.
But when its time to sell, "realistic gaps" are the way to a dealers wallet.
.

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 64822
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by Global Administrator »

ViccyVFU wrote:
09 Sep 2021 23:29
PhilipAdams wrote:
09 Sep 2021 16:59

Personalised pages also assist when selling - most buyers value the additional care and attention to detail.
Sheriff, "have you found this to be true"?

Psychologists have stated that we make a very firm judgement about any new person we have just met within 30 seconds. Everyone reading this realises that is quite true.

And for a stamp dealer, so it is with stamp collections. :lol: :lol: :lol:

At the end of the day, I am buying stamps, not pretty album pages, but NEAT presentation, and a collector with an obvious eye for quality always seems to see one wanting to pay more.

A collection of quality assembled material I NEVER want to see walk out the door. And I pay more than I want many times, just to secure it. Just common sense really.

If someone bought me in a printed album where all the high value Roos, 5/- Bridge, and Kooka sheet etc, were all FakeBay knockoffs, and/or pretty pictures cut out of auction catalogues etc, I just ASSUME the buyer is a no standards cheapskate, who will likely have cut corners on EVERYTHING else he ever bought, too.

Dealers are busy. We only spot check a few stamps in any album - the pricey ones. If they are all fake, defective, ugly, or laser print FakeBay jokes with the ink still wet, I do NOT want to buy that collection except obscenely dirt cheap. Too much hassle.

If a collector for some weird reason wants to look at pretty colour pictures of scarce stamps - go and buy a colour catalogue. Very cheap. Do not pretend to be a collector by pasting in photos of them if you want a good price when you sell. :idea:

Glen
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

User avatar
Parisboy
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
Posts: 628
Joined: 26 Nov 2013 00:40
Location: Paris, France

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by Parisboy »

The "Lighthouse" GB album has a space for the plate 77 Penny Red, smack bang in the middle of the page - it's really irritating. They also tend to have spaces for the rarer shades as well for later Victoria onwards instead of the far more common ones. You can add extra blank pages for these but I just think that it makes the album untidy.

Chris.

User avatar
Catweazle
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
Posts: 3854
Joined: 15 Nov 2009 21:18
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia
Contact:

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by Catweazle »

.
I run a stock-book set up for my pre-decimal Australian collection.

I don't do it religiously, but have been known to add the occasional auction catalogue cut-out from a large, colourful page with a glossy life-sized scan.

There are about three in total in my album. But that's only because I like the look of them, with an interesting postmark to boot, and know that those spots will never be filled since I don't have five figure pockets. More of a research thing, that.

The blank spaces in my pre-decimal GB album, however, are just that. Blank. And they'll probably stay that way until such time as that they are filled. If they are ever filled.

So, what I'm saying is that I think it is up to you. Are you in this hobby just for the pleasure of it, or do you also take into consideration what it will be like to on-sell them into the future? As others have said, spend some time making your stamps stand out on the page in the way you like – whatever brings you joy – and show them off as an art piece in their own right. It shows, when other collectors leaf through your pages, how much care you have taken to source exceptionally good material and house it beautifully. Whether you plan to sell it or pass it on to your grandchildren, it doesn't matter – your work will reward you either way, bank spaces or no blank spaces!

But you need not let those little blank spaces annoy you, for it is an ongoing project. Who knows – perhaps for this life you are the temporary archivist of beautiful historical items (your stamps). One day, in one hundred years from now, a collector with more money than you can afford to fill in your blanks, and will admire with affection and wonder the work you spent housing your stamps in your own personal way. They will not separate your collection, but will continue to add to it, in the way you did. They will carry on your work into the future. They will showcase your work at their local stamp club – long after you have stepped from this mortal coil – and other grumpy old men will point, and exclaim, "wowsers! Where did you find that? The collector before you did a good job there!" 8-)

But either way, don't make your albums look like this – cut-outs or no cut-outs!


Random stamps in an random stock book
Random stamps in an random stock book

User avatar
luke_coolhand
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
Posts: 450
Joined: 11 Feb 2009 21:37
Location: Toolern Vale Victoria

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by luke_coolhand »

Happy with copy fills the gap. Luckily my SG Windsor doesn’t include Plate 77.
Attachments
FDDC31E6-CBC4-4408-B40E-09E97CF00408.jpeg
778284E2-36C0-47C0-B96F-1EDAB877AC0C.jpeg
Collecting predecimal Australian Used Blocks.

User avatar
ViccyVFU
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4006
Joined: 23 Feb 2018 23:49
Location: Harrogate, UK

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by ViccyVFU »

luke_coolhand wrote:
30 Sep 2021 19:10
Happy with copy fills the gap.
Image


I see a lot of those Aldred forgeries.

aldred.jpg
sg456a Prussian Blue - Adred Forgery (Sold Ebay £3 + carriage)

(Just remember to remove it from the album, before showing the Sheriff the rest :D )


User avatar
Catweazle
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
Posts: 3854
Joined: 15 Nov 2009 21:18
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia
Contact:

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by Catweazle »

luke_coolhand wrote:
30 Sep 2021 19:10
Happy with copy fills the gap. Luckily my SG Windsor doesn’t include Plate 77.
Image
Image
Nicely done! Do you add the mounts yourself, or do the Windsors now include mounts like these?

User avatar
gavin-h
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Posts: 33359
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 02:10
Location: West Coast of England

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by gavin-h »

ViccyVFU wrote:
30 Sep 2021 20:37



I see a lot of those Aldred forgeries.

Image
sg456a Prussian Blue - Adred Forgery (Sold Ebay £3 + carriage)

Just think, if you saved all those four quids from buying FAKEsimile stamps, you'd be well on your way to one genuine quality rare stamp. :idea:

User avatar
gavin-h
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Posts: 33359
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 02:10
Location: West Coast of England

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by gavin-h »

Catweazle wrote:
01 Oct 2021 17:46
.

Nicely done! Do you add the mounts yourself, or do the Windsors now include mounts like these?
You can get Windsors with mounts.

In fact, I've got a spare set of Volume 1 (1840-1951) and Volume 2 (1952-71) brand new, unused hingeless Windsors available, but I suspect the postage to Oz would be a killer. :idea:

User avatar
ViccyVFU
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4006
Joined: 23 Feb 2018 23:49
Location: Harrogate, UK

Re: Stamp facsimile or a gap - which one do you prefer?

Post by ViccyVFU »

gavin-h wrote:
01 Oct 2021 22:59
ViccyVFU wrote:
30 Sep 2021 20:37



I see a lot of those Aldred forgeries.

Image
sg456a Prussian Blue - Adred Forgery (Sold Ebay £3 + carriage)

Just think, if you saved all those four quids from buying FAKEsimile stamps, you'd be well on your way to one genuine quality rare stamp. :idea:
Yep, just 3,800 copies at £4 saved "could buy you a real one"

pruss_avp.jpg
SG 456a Prussian Blue, currently listed on eBay

Given the old SG Windsor (1840 - 1970) only had about 550 spaces in the single volume, of which only maybe 20 would realistically be eligible for FAKEsimile .... "I just let people do what they want to do".

They are easy enough to pick out .... for now!


Post Reply

Return to “NO question is too basic or silly - you ask - we WILL help you with it!”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests