Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

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Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

I was working on Finnish stamps and noticed there was unexpected variation in some duplicates. I made some research and found out there were variants that were not listed. For that reason I decided to start a thread on unlisted variants of Finnish stamps. Some of them may actually be listed in some catalogues but to my experience at the best that is hit and miss. So, I will add here variants and welcome others to do the same.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Here is the stamp that has caused this thread to start.
Pilkkasiipi.1.jpg
Finnish stamp: Melanitta fusca, 0,20€, 2017

A very normal looking stamp. Until I compared it to theses 3 other stamps.
Pilkkasiipi.2.jpg
Finnish stamp: Melanitta fusca, 0,20€, 2017

Pilkkasiipi.3.jpg
Finnish stamp: Melanitta fusca, 0,20€, 2017

Pilkkasiipi.4.jpg
Finnish stamp: Melanitta fusca, 0,20€, 2017

Unfortunately they don't show that well in the scan (in real life the back ground pattern is more easy to see). However, if you look carefully, there are faint horizontal blue lines on the background. They are different in every one of the stamps shown above. So, how does that happen?What the catalogue is most likely telling you, is that the stamp comes from this minisheet.

Image
Finnish minisheet: Arktika, 2017 (image from Posti internet shop)

What they may omit (or just mention it in the foot note) is that the two low values were issued in a sheet:

Image
Finnish stamp sheet: Melanitta fusca, 15x0,20€, 2017 (image from Posti internet shop)

In this sheet every stamp has a different pattern of blue lines. That makes 15 + 1 different versions of this stamp.

OK, so, what is the big deal then? All are equally common. Wrong. All 15 sheet stamps are equally common, but not the minisheet stamp. According to LAPE, 80 000 minisheets were issued and 5 000 000 sheet stamps of each value. That makes 333 333 each version. As the minisheet stamp appears to be identifiable (I have no confirmation that it is different from all sheet stamps, but that looks likely), it is less common.

Just for reference I add the image of the 0,10€ stamp sheet. It has also 15 + 1 variants.

Image
Finnish stamp sheet: Clangula hyemalis, 15x0,10€, 2017 (image from Posti internet shop)

The background pattern appears to be the same in both values of sheet stamps, so, if you have all 16 variants, the ones that don't have a pair in the other value are from minisheet.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Gismo »

Thank you Kuikka, for starting this post. I'm collecting Finnish stamps, so very interesting for me. I hope I can find some to add, and will for sure look after the ones coming up here

/Michael

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Michael,

You are most welcome. Just curious, what catalogues are you using for Finnish stamps?

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Next one is not strictly unlisted but at least under listed. Only catalogue that I have seen reporting this is Michel. So, even specialized level LaPe, Norma and Facit don't seem to list this. That means that people who are specialized collecting Finland, may miss this information, although it is available.

May I present you Brown Bear from 2004:

BrownBear.2lk.I.jpg
Finnish stamp: Brown Bear, 2nd class, March 1st 2004

Apparently the 5 000 000 stamp print ran out and more was printed. However, the design got changed a bit. Most easily that is detectable in wording Ursus arctos, which is clearly larger in the new print.

BrownBear.2lk.II.jpg
Finnish stamp: Brown Bear, 2nd class, August 2009

The number of stamps printed in 2009 is unknown to me. Here is still the words Ursus arctos side by side for easy comparison:

BrownBear.2lk.I-II.jpg
Finnish stamp: Brown Bear, 2nd class, two variants side by side

Ursus arctos is 6 mm long in type I (2004) and 8 mm in type II (2009).

If you have only one stamp and you want to know which one it is at glance how do you do it? If there is enough space after Ursus arctos to add second 'arctos' without overlaping '2004', it is type I. If there isn't enough space, it is type II.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Gismo »

Kuikka, I have used the danish AFA and the Swedish Facit until now, but wantto dig deeper, so has just bought Lape.

Is there other catalouges I should have?

/Michael

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Michael,

There are 2 Finnish catalogues: LaPe and Norma. Both of them make normal and specialized catalogues. Specialized catalogue is not published every year but from time to time. When it is published normal catalogue is not published. Normal catalogues are unlikely to add anything to Facit but specialized ones do add.

The latest specialized catalogue of LaPe is 2012 and has two volumes. The latest of Norma is 2018 (single volume). These include locals, Christmas seals and postal stationery.

These specialized catalogues differ in their style. Norma is better in technical details (such as the simulated perforation number). LaPe has also revenue stamps and tell much more (typically a paragraph) about the stamp design (essential for a thematic collector). Norma is pretty useless in finding information on stamp design.

Finnish stamp handbook second edition (only parts III and V were ever made) is bilingual (Finnish and English), but long out of print. That has much more information. The books may be available in Finnish stamp shops, they have not been very hard to find.

I hope this helps.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Gismo »

Kuikka.

Yes it's helps alot, thank you.

Do you know if any of them show the different between "Senatens tryckeri" and "Karta-Sigillata tryckeri" on the 1875 coat of arms type, I can't figure out how I see if it's one and another?

/Michael

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Gismo wrote:
05 Jun 2020 04:49
Kuikka.

Yes it's helps alot, thank you.

Do you know if any of them show the different between "Senatens tryckeri" and "Karta-Sigillata tryckeri" on the 1875 coat of arms type, I can't figure out how I see if it's one and another?

/Michael
That seems to be quite difficult. What I can make out of it, they were printed with same cliches. That means that there are no characteristic differences in them. I think it all comes down to shade, wear, perforation and paper. In some cases the cliches have changed their place and that may make multiples more easy to identify than single stamps. The part III of the second edition of the Handbook of Finnish stamps covers these. So, you may want to try to get that one.

One additional thing. Finnish literature uses name "Leimakonttori" (~Stamp office) for Karta-Sigillata printing house. It is good for you to know, as Karta-Sigillata may be confusing for Finns. I believe "L" for Karta-Sigillata in Facit comes from Leimakonttori.

Sorry that I wasn't much help in this case.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Gismo »

Kuikka.

Thats helps me a lot, to know, I can't figure out the different so easy. I will seach for the Handbook, to see if it can help me a litlle.

Thank you for translation, I'll for sure help me a lot to know :geek:

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Michael, I forgot to mention that the stamp descriptions in 2012 LaPe are only in Finnish and Swedish. Given that you live in Denmark I have assumed you can understand at least some Swedish.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Gismo »

Kuikka.

I understand almost everything in swedish, my father lives in Sweden, and have done it for about 20 years ;)

/Michael

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Gismo wrote:
08 Jun 2020 07:27
Kuikka.

I understand almost everything in swedish, my father lives in Sweden, and have done it for about 20 years ;)

/Michael
Understanding Swedish is a forgivable offence ;)
(I suppose you have heard about friendly rivalry between Finland and Sweden)

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Gismo »

Kuikka, oooh yes, I have heard about the neighbor fight :twisted:

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Here is one more good catalogue for Finnish stamps:

Image

This catalogue may be extinct, so, if you want any year's edition, you may need to look for second hand shops.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Here is another set of stamps that Michel lists two variants but specialized catalogues don't list them:
Ruiskaunokki.1lk.I.jpg
Cornflower, Finnish stamp, 1lk,16.5.2001, photogravure

Hämeenkylmänkukka.1lk.I.jpg
Pale pascal flower, Finnish stamp, 1lk, 16.5.2001, photogravure


These were printed in 2001 alternating on the same sheet (5x2 stamps) and the print was 7 500 000 of each stamp or 1 500 000 sheets. Apparently they ran out of print run out and a new print was ordered in 2003. The quantity of the new print is unknown to me (based on Michel pricing, the second print was much smaller than the first one). However, the new print was not done with the original plates and resulted a recognizable variant.

Ruiskaunokki.1lk.II.jpg
Cornflower, Finnish stamp, 1lk, 20.3.2003, Offset litho

Hämeenkylmänkukka.1lk.II.jpg
Pale pascal flower, Finnish stamp, 1lk, 20.3.2003, Offset litho


On quick look these look almost identical. So, how to tell them apart? If you have access to microscope, the identification is easy, as the screening is different. This allows to tell them apart without comparison. (Apologies for poor drawing, my scanner is not good enough to show the real image).

Hämeenkylmänkukka.1lk.I,rasteri.jpg
Screening in 60 deg angle, photogravure

Hämeenkylmänkukka.1lk.II,rasteri.jpg
Screening in 90 deg angle, offset litho


If you don't have microscope but have both variants, you can compare the shades of the stamps. In offset litho the colors look duller. In the cornflower stamp, look the brownish grain behind. In the pale pascal flower look the green color.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by stampchris »

The Melanitta fusca varieties remind me of the 2005 Icelandic Flowers Greetings issue where a wavy line background was used, resulting in each stamp in the sheets of 10 having a different background. One of the stamps was also issued in a booklet, making one stamp slightly more common than the others.
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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Thank you for this information. I have to make a note on my catalogues.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Rein »

This is amazing for you to have fpund these versions of common Finnish stamps!

I have come across lots of recently issued stamps of other countries that have not been studied at all.

Like Eire or Hungary, I recently described here!

Keep going on doing this great job!

Rein

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Thank you Rein,

Please keep adding here more if you have anything to add. I think you had some nice close-ups of different screening (or I may just remember it wrong).

The knowledge of these variants is not my own finding. However, they have been documented so loosely that I had to do my own studying to get the information that has likely been discovered by someone else before me.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Rein »

I would need to have the stamps myself in order to add something relevant.

If you have spare ones, contact me by PM.

Rein

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Message sent.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Chkpoint Charlie »

While I was happily mounting my Finnish stamps into the album, I came across this.
Finland stamps.jpg
What happened to with the backround and color on the two outside stamps?

They are very crudely printed compared to the center stamp backround.

The color listed on my old scott page from their brown albums lists this 3M stamp as Pale Blue and Black.

In the scott catalogs I use, 2015 and 2018 the colors are listed as Blue and Black.

I no longer have my Facit catalog to check with, does anyone know about the crude printings of these stamps?
Can they be forgeries, since I have two, I don't think so. Worn or over inked plates? Maybe

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Have you checked watermarks? This design and value has been in print for a decade or so. Variations in shades should not be that unusual over so long time.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Chkpoint Charlie »

Here is another strange one
finland missing wmk.jpg
finland missing wmk back 001.jpg
The 1927 10p with multiple swastika watermark is only listed as Ultra. So the used stamp is this one.

Oh my, my 2018 classic catalog lists the 1921 unwatermarked 10p as brt blue, also listed is a variety in grysh ultra!

Both varieties are valued the same, here I thought I had a unwatermarked error. I was looking at my 1995 classic catalog that only lists bright blue, I found the 10p ultra from 1927 and got all excited.

This is why I have questions about the 3 Mark above, the backround is printed so badly compared to all the other values in the set it and the color is quite different also. The watermarked versions are listed as chalky blue and black, the above ones are unwatermarked. The 1921 version was replaced with the watermarked version in 1925, so you are probably right, it is just a later sloppy version.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Dutchie »

If you are into details for Finnish stamps you really need the LaPe 2012 (latest extended) catalog. LaPe lists 3 colour variants of the 1921 10p Coat of Arms (no watermark, perforation 14¼ x 14). It also lists the 1926 10p, 2 swastika watermark variants (one swastika normal, one mirrored), perforation 14¼ x 14¾.
I collect used Finnish stamps, all variants. Very time consuming once you start to look at paper, luminescence, printers and perforation variants of the 1963 and 1973 Coat of Arms. Really many variants there!
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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Dutchie,

Welcome to Stampboards.

You are right that the extended LaPe 2012 is an excellent resource. It includes number of short articles about the printing methods and similar issues. It also has a brief description (typically a paragraph) of every stamp design, which is a treasure for every topical collector. Unfortunately for the international users, most of that information is available only in Finnish and Swedish (no issue for me) while the general listing is trilingual (including English).

Another alternative for extended listing of Finnish stamps is Norma Specialized catalogue (which is the extended version of Norma catalogues), the latest one is from 2018. It has roughly the same level listing of stamps, but the descriptions are more brief. The benefit for international audience is that it is more thoroughly trilingual.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Dutchie »

Christmas 2000.jpg
Not sure if this one is listed in all catalogues. It's a special edition at the Helsinki Stamp Fair form 3-5 November 2000. Visitors had the opportunity to buy the stamps with their own picture added in the white space.
Later the sheets were sold from the Stamp Shop in Helsinki and at Santa Claus' Main Post Office on the Arctic Circle with the Santa's Post Office logo in the white frame. Michel number: FI 1545BCZf
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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by kuikka »

Dutchie,

Thank you for the scan. It shows that the simulated perforation between the stamp and the Cinderella next to it is not complete. That makes it possible to identify the stamp from this pair even if the Cinderella has been removed.

By the way, we would love to know a bit more about you. Please go to introduce yourself here https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=6844211#p6844211, where all new members are requested to introduce themselves.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Dutchie »

FI 1593BC 14-15.jpg
Michel FI 1593BC, 2002, left perforation die cut 14, right die cut 15, a series of 5 different Forget-me-not stamps. The die cut 15 is not always listed, I think.

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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Dutchie »

img20201021_0335.jpg
Michel FI 1605BA (left) and Michel FI 1606BA (right), 2002, die cut 14¾ x 15.
Of both stamps a variant has been made with perforation die cut 14 to be used on FDCs.
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Re: Unlisted variants of Finnish stamps

Post by Dutchie »

100-Years-Finnish-Writers.jpg
Michel FI MH49, 1997, a booklet with 8 stamps (book covers), perforation 14 x 14½. A variant was printed with perforation comb14½.
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