Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Tomane1 »

OldDuffer1 wrote:
08 Apr 2021 22:19
Not joking this time!

I am not joking either, when I ask whether it is not possible to hold a referendum on the Northern Island issue just like they did with Brexit?

I am too far removed to even begin to understand what is going on there, other than it is an extremely complex issue that needs visionaries on both sides to resolve.

And I am eternally grateful that thanks to Nelson Mandela and a number of other people, we avoided a similar catastrophic situation in South Africa.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by honza »

gavin-h wrote:
06 Apr 2021 05:32
Ahoj, Honza,

My comments in RED:
honza wrote:
06 Apr 2021 04:42
Ahoj Gavin!

I am having difficulty reconciling your professed beliefs with your considered conclusions.

You don't think single-issue referenda have much place in a representative democracy, but you are backing the Brexit one to the hilt. No, I am backing the decision made, in the interests of peace and democracy within my country. While I may not agree with holding referenda on single issues, I have little say in whether they will be held - until and unless of course there is a referendum on whether to hold further referenda (which of course will never happen!). Clearly, whether I personally like the process or not, a majority of those who chose to have their say voted Leave (and that was the largest number of people who cast their votes the same way in British history I seem to recall). Therefore whether I agree with the way in which the decision was taken or not, I will support the result. To do otherwise would be foolish.

You say we elect politicians to use their judgement on our behalf, but the overwhelming number of elected MPs were opposed to Brexit and they were thwarted by your cronies in the Daily Express calling them traitors - dangerous stuff. And they could have - some say should have - taken the result as "advisory" (which constitutionally it was) and said "Thank you for your opinion, we will take it on board". That was all that they were obliged to do, but to have done so in the febrile atmosphere whipped up by both campaigns would have caused more problems than it solved. The sensible thing (from their point of view) would have been to vote against holding the referendum in the first place. But they didn't. And by the way, the Daily Express are certainly not "my cronies"!

You say you were unconvinced that the Leave campaign had a proper plan to leave in an orderly manner and the events of the subsequent four years pretty much proved you right in that regard, but you still approve of Brexit. I haven't said I "approve" or "disapprove" of Brexit. I have said that I don't think the plan was fully thought through - and that with a better plan to vote on I would certainly have voted Leave.

Your remark about the better way forward would have been to work to dismantle it from within illustrated my point that your main impetus was not to benefit the UK or make the EU better , but to work as a fifth column from within to destroy the association - on behalf of whom? No, I have always felt that the UK would be better off without the EU as an external threat, and that inside the EU was too much of a compromise. The old Common Market, an area of economic cooperation was a good system, but the delusions of grandeur of the Eurocrats and their work to make a "European Superstate" were not things I could countenance, hence my conclusion that to dismantle it would be in the best interests of the UK. I always make political decisions based on what I feel is best for my country. I'm a good old-fashioned patriot, as much as that may be a dirty word in the modern world and I will always stand up for my country.

Cheers,

Honza
Ahoj again Gavin,

Thank you for your reasoned response about how you manage to reconcile your conflicting views. I suppose being an apparatchik of the Party stifles one's individuality. If you join a gang you have to chant the slogans.

If it is of any comfort I agree almost completely with your professed beliefs, but I reach the logical conclusion from those beliefs that Brexit will prove a monumental mistake.

On a different point in a different post, I noted with surprise your equanimity about an Australian Republic. Is this a new shift by the Tory Party. prompted from Washington, to soften up their push for a republic in the UK itself, as I predicted much to your annoyance some months ago?

I noted that yesterday's Daily Mirror was floating the idea of William as the next king. The Yanks have been briefing against Charles for years - with marked success in the case of Glen. Create division among the monarchists and your agenda becomes easier to carry out.

Have you had both your jabs yet?

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Tomane1 wrote:
08 Apr 2021 23:29
OldDuffer1 wrote:
08 Apr 2021 22:19
Not joking this time!

I am not joking either, when I ask whether it is not possible to hold a referendum on the Northern Island issue just like they did with Brexit?

I am too far removed to even begin to understand what is going on there, other than it is an extremely complex issue that needs visionaries on both sides to resolve.

And I am eternally grateful that thanks to Nelson Mandela and a number of other people, we avoided a similar catastrophic situation in South Africa.
.
South Africa was slightly different though as both sides found common ground and decided to look forward rather than dwelling on the past.

This is something both sides in Northern Ireland can’t get past and it is the constant mistrust and inability to forgive and forget past deeds that means every few years this sort of unpleasantness rears it’s head.

The only solution would be for every side to agree to only look forward and any misdemeanours in the past a line drawn under them and an acceptance that what happened happened but that the future can be much brighter.

To do this would take huge courage and bravery and a real willingness for change for the good of all Ireland and Great Britain. Unfortunately, as Cill Dara consistently illustrates in his anti- British rantings, the hatred on both sides is too deep and any efforts to paper over the cracks are ultimately futile. It is perhaps one of the most depressing situations around.

It also doesn’t help when ill informed Australians start making noise about this being all about Brexit. Some people need to quickly understand the whole picture with Northern Ireland, not just throw in anti-Brexit arguments for the sake of it. There is so much more to this than simplistic digs at Boris and co! It is sad that some people take 50 years of violence and 1000s of deaths and hurt as something to be joked about.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Cill Dara wrote:
08 Apr 2021 20:05
White Irish in UK earn 41% more than white British, pay gap report finds

White Irish people in the UK earn “notably more” that the average British white person, a report on the ethnicity pay gap in the UK has found.

The report, by the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities, found that the gap between the mean hourly earnings of all ethnic groups, and the white British, was 2.3 per cent, with the ethnic groups, on average, earning less.

But for Chinese, Indian and white Irish people, average earnings exceed those of the white British, with the Irish being the best paid of all.

Research showed the white Irish earning 41 per cent more than the white British. The equivalent figures for the Chinese and Indian populations were 23 per cent and 15 per cent, respectively.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/white-irish-i ... -1.4527558



Is this racist? :mrgreen:
Ummmm... I think when you throw in ‘Irish’ travellers into the mix then your ‘average salary’ statistics will shoot right down! Even in your own country these individuals are traditionally not very well liked, no wonder they prefer living in Britain!

You have racist views though as you clearly want Ireland to stay pure white with no ‘bastardisation’ (your words) or ‘imports’ from abroad. Not exactly forward thinking are you, maybe we should bring up homosexuality and abortion again too to see your outdated views.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Global Administrator »

GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 03:49

It also doesn’t help when ill-informed Australians start making noise about this being all about Brexit.

I am VERY well-informed thank you very much.

I've been to both Irelands far more than you have, I can bet. And driven it top to toe. Most Brits expressing strong views on this issue have never been there. Interesting fact. Bit like the Pope lecturing on Birth control techniques.

And are spouting 100s of years of brainwashed prejudice as a dogma, safe in their brown cardigans. And the Southerners are not much better, very often. :D

Sitting at a distance, and not being embroiled or invested in either side of the hatred has its plusses. Clear eyes. :idea:

No national brainwashing from either side - from birth - here. :mrgreen:

So, another Brit who deludedly believes violet anti-police riots have been a weekly fixture there in NI for the past 10 years, but just got no media. Get real.

The recent BREXIT cock-up is behind the current riots. This historic hatred goes back generations, but the lid had been kept on that in recent ties. Until now.

Global Administrator wrote:
08 Apr 2021 21:25

Got it.

So these 3rd World style, riots and burning of buses and police vehicles, and the dozens of police injured this week have been a weekly occurrence in NI over the past 10 years?

Got it. Boris must have issued a ''D Notice'' to the British media not to cover the other 1000s of alleged instances of it I guess, over the past decade?

These new BREXIT moves have absolutely nothing to do with this week of ugly rioting in the UK. Happens routinely there it seems? Just never gets any media in the past. No need to worry about this pesky rioting in the streets.

Got it.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Global Administrator wrote:
09 Apr 2021 04:43
GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 03:49

It also doesn’t help when ill-informed Australians start making noise about this being all about Brexit.

I am VERY well-informed thank you very much.

I've been to both Irelands far more than you have, I can bet. And driven it top to toe. Most Brits expression expressing strong views on this issue have never been there. Interesting fact.

And are spouting 100s of years of brainwashed prejudice as a dogma, in their brown cardigans. And the Southerners are not much better, very often. :D

Sitting at a distance, and not being embroiled or invested in either side of the hatred has its plusses. Clear eyes. :idea:

No national brainwashing from either side - from birth - here. :mrgreen:

So, another Brit who deludedly believes violet anti-police riots have been a weekly fixture there in NI for the past 10 years, but just got no media. Get real. The recent BREXIT cock-up is behind the current riots.

Global Administrator wrote:
08 Apr 2021 21:25

Got it.

So these 3rd World style, riots and burning of buses and police vehicles, and the dozens of police injured this week have been a weekly occurrence in NI over the past 10 years?

Got it. Boris must have issued a ''D Notice'' to the British media not to cover the other 1000s of alleged instances of it I guess, over the past decade?

These new BREXIT moves have absolutely nothing to do with this week of ugly rioting in the UK. Happens routinely there it seems? Just never gets any media in the past. No need to worry about this pesky rioting in the streets.

Got it.
.
Actually I know this first hand as have family there and must have visited over 50 times so yes I do actually know and my relatives have experienced the troubles directly too, particularly being a mixed Protestant/Catholic relationship so they get it from both sides. No doubt your next argument will be a long the lines of I have shown no proof about this link etc etc like people on Stampboards should somehow have to reveal their full identities and family history to prevent being abused by you.

Whilst driving Northern Ireland and Eire ‘top to toe’ was your car fire bombed or shot at? If not, I don’t see how you can even begin to understand what life is like living there in the north. My relatives certainly do and it isn’t pretty at times I can tell you.

You certainly have a gift of putting words into people’s mouths too - no where did I say these riots were a weekly feature of NI, if you read what I put I said ‘every FEW YEARS these sort of incidents raise their ugly head’.

You maintain that this anti-Brexit stance as though it’s the main cause of the troubles - it is not, it is built on decades and decades of mistrust and minor things have often resulted in significant unrest like we are sadly seeing currently.

Brexit is one issue in these troubles, there are dozens of others and any one of them at any time can provoke this sort of response from a minority who are set out to cause mayhem.

Also, I don’t like brown and I certainly don’t like cardigans!

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Global Administrator »

GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 05:00

You maintain that this anti-Brexit stance as though it’s the main cause of the troubles - it is not, it is built on decades and decades of mistrust

Well lets be honest - the animosity goes back not decades but over 200 years to the Corn Laws. But the lid has been kept on in over recent time, until these recent BREXIT moves.

Anyone who pretends it has been commonplace in the past decade is deluded.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 04:05

Ummmm... I think

Ummmm........You need more practice at thinking....... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Write a letter to The Times complaining about White Irish being paid 41% more than White British. :mrgreen:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Cill Dara wrote:
09 Apr 2021 05:46
GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 04:05

Ummmm... I think

Ummmm........You need more practice at thinking....... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Write a letter to The Times complaining about White Irish being paid 41% more than White British. :mrgreen:
Well that just means they will be paying substantially more money in tax to the British government, thanks very much 👍 As with the ‘American’ Irish, prosperity is far more likely abroad than in the home country clearly! (Plus better roads to I guess 😜🤣)

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

Global Administrator wrote:
09 Apr 2021 04:43

.......... And the Southerners are not much better, very often. :D

I say Sir.......I do represent that slur. :mrgreen:

You Aussies do not have the pleasure of having Neighbours from Hell on your doorstep and actually occupying part of your house.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 05:50
Cill Dara wrote:
09 Apr 2021 05:46
GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 04:05

Ummmm... I think

Ummmm........You need more practice at thinking....... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Write a letter to The Times complaining about White Irish being paid 41% more than White British. :mrgreen:
Well that just means they will be paying substantially more money in tax to the British government, thanks very much.

No problem.......the Irish are happy to support the bastardised, lazy, uneducated Sasanachs....call it foreign aid. :lol:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Global Administrator »

Cill Dara wrote:
09 Apr 2021 05:56

You Aussies do not have the pleasure of having Neighbours from Hell on your doorstep and actually occupying part of your house.

Wrong actually. They are called New Zealanders. :!:

We deport as many as we can round up, and the EU cannot help us. :D
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Cill Dara wrote:
09 Apr 2021 06:02
GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 05:50
Cill Dara wrote:
09 Apr 2021 05:46
GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 04:05

Ummmm... I think

Ummmm........You need more practice at thinking....... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Write a letter to The Times complaining about White Irish being paid 41% more than White British. :mrgreen:
Well that just means they will be paying substantially more money in tax to the British government, thanks very much.

No problem.......the Irish are happy to support the bastardised, lazy, uneducated Sasanachs....call it foreign aid. :lol:
Well your country has had enough of that over the years subsidising your dirt tracks and wooden houses! It would seem though that your ‘educated’ classes get out the home country as soon as possible though, hence their prosperity elsewhere. Do any other nations come to Ireland to improve their prospects??? Certainly no one in the EU!!!

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

Global Administrator wrote:
09 Apr 2021 06:05
Cill Dara wrote:
09 Apr 2021 05:56

You Aussies do not have the pleasure of having Neighbours from Hell on your doorstep and actually occupying part of your house.

Wrong actually. They are called New Zealanders. :!:

We deport as many as we can round up, and the EU cannot help us. :D

index.jpg

Well, seeing that you Aussies have already muscled into Eurovision, we can make you half-hearted EU members.....replacing the Brits, who were only half-hearted members of the EU. :mrgreen:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Cill Dara wrote:
09 Apr 2021 06:15
Global Administrator wrote:
09 Apr 2021 06:05
Cill Dara wrote:
09 Apr 2021 05:56

You Aussies do not have the pleasure of having Neighbours from Hell on your doorstep and actually occupying part of your house.

Wrong actually. They are called New Zealanders. :!:

We deport as many as we can round up, and the EU cannot help us. :D


Image


Well, seeing that you Aussies have already muscled into Eurovision, we can make you half-hearted EU members.....replacing the Brits, who were only half-hearted members of the EU. :mrgreen:
Well you always seemed to get most of your Eurovision votes from Britain so without us Nil Points incoming!

Also, another example of Europe disliking us but forgetting Britain is one of the largest financial backers of Eurovision. We put it on for poorer countries, like yours, so you can experience some culture without needing another bailout to pay for it 👍

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 06:06

Do any other nations come to Ireland to improve their prospects??? Certainly no one in the EU!!!

Diversity in Ireland

In April 2016, there were 535,475 non-Irish nationals living in Ireland, a 1.6 per cent decrease on the 2011 figure (544,357). The proportion of the population who were non-Irish nationals has also fallen from 12.2 per cent in 2011 to 11.6 per cent in 2016. This fall in non-Irish nationals can in part be explained by the rise in the number of those with dual Irish nationality



You're not very good with facts.........a product of crap Sasanach education. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Cill Dara wrote:
09 Apr 2021 06:26
GB 789 wrote:
09 Apr 2021 06:06

Do any other nations come to Ireland to improve their prospects??? Certainly no one in the EU!!!


Diversity in Ireland

In April 2016, there were 535,475 non-Irish nationals living in Ireland, a 1.6 per cent decrease on the 2011 figure (544,357). The proportion of the population who were non-Irish nationals has also fallen from 12.2 per cent in 2011 to 11.6 per cent in 2016. This fall in non-Irish nationals can in part be explained by the rise in the number of those with dual Irish nationality



You're not very good with facts.........a product of crap Sasanach education. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well at least we learnt what evolution and free choice is unlike your brain washed system. I can’t imagine your spiritual ‘leaders’ being very impressed if these ‘non-Irish’ started building mosques and the like. Not very diverse really I’d suggest if they don’t toe the line unlike your near neighbours across the water where REAL diversity happens - St Paddies day parades for example are enjoyed in Britain, can’t imagine a St George’s parade in Ireland being accepted in the same way. Diverse .... nope!!!😀

Also, on checking, Ireland didn’t even qualify for the last Eurovision held in 2019, you failed to get through to the final so maybe you should just support Australia as at least they qualified!

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

Brexit: EU and UK 'still at odds' over subsidy rules

There appears to be "persistent and fundamental" differences between the UK and EU over a significant part of the NI Brexit deal, MPs have concluded.

The European Scrutiny Committee has been examining the operation of the Northern Ireland Protocol.

It says the EU and UK are still at odds over the extent to which EU subsidy rules still apply to UK businesses.

It adds that this lack of clarity may impact on the willingness of companies to accept UK government subsidies.

The MPs focused on Article 10 of the protocol which deals with "state aid", or government subsidies.

The terms of the NI Protocol means Northern Ireland is still in the EU single market for goods and so is still subject to EU subsidy rules for trade in goods.

However, Article 10 also says the UK as a whole should follow EU rules if a UK-wide subsidy could have an impact on trade in goods between Northern Ireland and the European Union.

For example, if a UK-wide subsidy was to give NI firms an unfair advantage over other companies in the EU single market.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56684166


Not many people know that...including me....and it seems British MPs, who spent a whole day debating the trade agreement.

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning......
as someone, whose name escapes me, once said. :mrgreen:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Rigs »

Some decades ago I happened to spend a couple of years in the uk, as younger aussies and kiwis are prone to do.

Had a great time, great country.

But they were never gonna stomach the euro over sterling.

Which in my observations is what the core of brexit is all about.

From afar now, I think brexit is the smartest thing they ever did.

European Union was a complete failure for the uk.

A profound 50 year (or thereabouts) dilution of culture, economy and identity.

I’m sorry, you have more in common with Australia and New Zealand now than the French, Belgians, Spanish, Germans or Italians etc., and more potential with us.

IMHO it is the continental Europeans who are the ultimate snobs (and top the Israelis and Japanese in this regard).

Well done brits.
Last edited by Rigs on 09 Apr 2021 20:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by satsuma »

Global Administrator wrote:
09 Apr 2021 06:05
Cill Dara wrote:
09 Apr 2021 05:56

You Aussies do not have the pleasure of having Neighbours from Hell on your doorstep and actually occupying part of your house.

Wrong actually. They are called New Zealanders. :!:

We deport as many as we can round up, and the EU cannot help us. :D
Possibly tongue in cheek?

Last I heard you had bigger problems with your neighbours from the north who keep sending you boatloads of wannabe refugees.

NZ has the real neighbours from hell who come over here and shoot up mosques.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Well said Rigs! Glad you enjoyed your time here!

I learnt all about Aussies. in Britain from the highly accurate comic strip: Barry McKenzie!

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by gavin-h »

Ahoj again Honza,

Once again my comments in RED
honza wrote:
09 Apr 2021 03:46
Ahoj again Gavin,

Thank you for your reasoned response about how you manage to reconcile your conflicting views. I suppose being an apparatchik of the Party stifles one's individuality. If you join a gang you have to chant the slogans. Not at all! It's a wide misunderstanding that we are all "apparatchiks" and toe some kind of party line handed down from above. The Conservative Party is FULL of characterful individuals from Boris all the way down to the humble level of yours truly! What we do do is, unlike the Labour Party for example, is meet privately and air our dirty laundry behind closed doors rather than in public. Some of our local group meetings are spectacularly fiery and (surprisingly to some!) a wide range of views are aired. But we then come to a conclusion and present a united front. If, for example, you see a Conservative abstain in a vote in a council meeting, you know that there's been a significant discussion before that meeting!

If it is of any comfort I agree almost completely with your professed beliefs, but I reach the logical conclusion from those beliefs that Brexit will prove a monumental mistake. I'm not sure whether it's a mistake or not, monumental or otherwise. With 5, 10, 20 years' hindsight we will be better placed to judge.
But realistically, we'll never know either way because there are so many other factors influencing the economy.
And we are where we are, decision made so the best thing to do is work as hard as possible to make the future as big a success as possible - time spent crying over how we got here is time wasted.


On a different point in a different post, I noted with surprise your equanimity about an Australian Republic. Is this a new shift by the Tory Party. prompted from Washington, to soften up their push for a republic in the UK itself, as I predicted much to your annoyance some months ago? No shift in policy as far as I'm aware - if fact I'm not even aware of the Party's formal policy on the point, though I could make a fairly accurate guess.
No my comment was based solely on "Realpolitik". A forward-looking country half way around the world is understandably going to want a discussion on having their own head of state rather than one sitting in London.
They wouldn't be the first Commonwealth country to elect or appoint their own. Don't understand your reference to Washington - the USA loves the Royal Family (even though they don't want one of their own!) and I can't see that changing any time soon.


I noted that yesterday's Daily Mirror was floating the idea of William as the next king. The Yanks have been briefing against Charles for years - with marked success in the case of Glen. Create division among the monarchists and your agenda becomes easier to carry out. That's the Mirror for you. I really don't understand who their target market is, and again why you bring "the Yanks" into it I've no idea! I fully believe Charles will become king and remain king until the end of his life. Will he be a good king? I think so, many people think not - but in terms of the institution of the monarchy whether he will or he won't is irrelevant.

Have you had both your jabs yet? I've had my first, second scheduled for early June. They did warn me that I might grow a second head as a side-effect but if I did just to choke it off with a piece of thread. They didn't tell me it would scream quite so much though. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Global Administrator »

satsuma wrote:
09 Apr 2021 19:52

Last I heard you had bigger problems with your neighbours from the north who keep sending you boatloads of wannabe refugees.

It might have been the last YOU heard, but you are 10 years behind reality.

But New Zealand is at least 10 years behind most things! Colour TV is planned for 2022 we hear? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Global Administrator wrote:
10 Apr 2021 00:49
satsuma wrote:
09 Apr 2021 19:52

Last I heard you had bigger problems with your neighbours from the north who keep sending you boatloads of wannabe refugees.

It might have been the last YOU heard, but you are 10 years behind reality.

But New Zealand is at least 10 years behind most things! Colour TV is planned for 2022 we hear? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
You poor Aussies only getting colour tv in 2012!!! How did you cope watching Skippy the bush kangaroo and Neighbours in black and white for all those years 🤣

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Global Administrator »

.
The EU will certainly not miss the vast IQ and MAFEMATIC and COMPREEHENSHUN skills of poor old GB 789. Not even the Micks would want him. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Global Administrator wrote:
10 Apr 2021 01:34
.
The EU will certainly not miss the vast IQ and MAFEMATIC and COMPREEHENSHUN skills of poor old GB 789. Not even the Micks would want him. :lol: :lol: :lol:

And GB 789 will not miss the vast dictatorship that is the EU. What’s that Skip??? The Aussies secretly love us still? Even stamp dealers in Sydney? We knew it already 😜😜😜

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

China pulls German trade up but Brexit hits UK business

On the year, exports to China increased by 25.7%.

But German exports to the UK fell by 12.2% on the year in February and imports slumped 26.9%, the German Federal Statistics Office said. Germany is the UK's biggest trading partner.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0409/1208758-german-trade-figures/


It's not looking good, Boris.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by emason »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/08/grossly-irre ... ormer-top/

Extracts:
'Grossly irresponsible' to blame Brexit for Northern Ireland unrest, says former top Government adviser

Lord Caine said Brexit tensions were a factor, but loyalist figures and paramilitary groups were stoking the violence

The Government’s former top adviser on Northern Ireland has hit out at “grossly irresponsible” attempts to blame Brexit for rioting among loyalists, as Brandon Lewis held emergency talks to try to quell the unrest.

Lord Caine, who served as special adviser to six Northern Ireland secretaries, spoke out amid a growing political blame game over the violence which has descended across the province.
.
.
It’s irresponsible and it betrays a wilful ignorance of Northern Irish politics,” he added. “It’s not just about politics, it’s about people who run criminal empires and who seek to exert influence and control over communities.

His comments were echoed by a Belfast security source, who said some loyalist groups were using Brexit as a “flag of convenience” to exploit tensions, while also fermenting anger over the failure by prosecutors to take action against Sinn Fein politicians who attended a funeral for IRA figure Bobby Storey, allegedly in breach of coronavirus rules.

“Covid kept a lid on much of it and there’s an element of recreational rioting, but such acts are usually done with permission from those that would benefit from an increase in tension,” they added. “There’s a more sinister element of the old and bold coming through.”
.
.
However, Lord Caine said: “I think it is irresponsible of some people who are trying to make this solely a Brexit story, that somehow Brexit is destroying the Northern Ireland peace process.

We have seen a number of people in recent years - who would never previously have taken any interest in Northern Ireland, still less champion the Union – suddenly become experts on the 1998 Agreement and seek to use Northern Ireland to make a point about Brexit, which I, as a remain voter, deplore.

It’s irresponsible and it betrays a wilful ignorance of Northern Ireland politics. Bluntly, elements within loyalism have been disaffected with aspects of the agreement [Good Friday Agreement] and the peace process since the early days.

There’s this longstanding perception within loyalism that republicans had made all the gains and they have got nothing out of it. Let me be clear – I don’t agree with that view. But these are long-standing issues that successive governments have grappled with since 1998.

“The Bobby Storey incident last week is the most recent catalyst for loyalism. It plays into this narrative that there is one rule for Sinn Fein and another for the rest of us. To say this is all about Brexit is pretty wilfully dumb.”
.
.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by honza »

Ahoj everyone,

I had my second Moderna jab today exactly 28 days after my first in a proper medical facility with half a dozen professionals in attendance and a very friendly atmosphere. How does my experience compare to that of a similar person in the UK?

In Brexitland many have had a first dose, but few a second dose or certainly not one within the timeframe recommended by the manufacturers. It was probably from Astra Zeneca, which the UK government swore for weeks was absolutely safe and was a victim of an unfounded smear campaign by the EU, but which is now not recommended by the British government for younger people but is still being used up on the old and vulnerable.

To cut red tape and speed up the process it may well have been administered by a fireman or a vet in a drill hall or car park, albeit with union flags and flash-bulbs.

Not once has any self-designated 'non-racist' berated me for being a 'western migrant', who has no right to be treated in the Czech Republic.

So, trying to be objective. who has experienced the better treatment?

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by gavin-h »

Hi, Honza,

I had my first AZ, waiting for my second in early June (12 weeks). The local church hall was being used by a pharmacy across the road. All those administering the jabs (at four tables) were medical professionals including one GP. The process was quick, easy and designed to maximise the number of "customers" seen per day, several hundred in this single centre in this small town.

I'd take issue with your assertion that "few" have had a second dose - over 6 million (including 445,000 in a single day!) have now had a second dose. Perhaps the perception from a country with a much smaller population colours your view?

I don't think anybody anywhere has ever claimed any vaccination is "totally safe" - but the AZ still remains safe to use in my view. A very small number of blood clots have occurred in patients within a few days of receiving the jab but it is still not confirmed whether these are related directly, some epidemiologists are suggesting that the incidence is the same or lower than expected in the general population.

I don't understand your "non-racist" comment but for the record the staff working in our vaccination centres are of many ethnicities and in my opinion all those staff are doing a bl--dy good job!

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

"We would be damaging the fabric of the union with regulatory checks and even customs controls between Great Britain and Northern Ireland on top of those extra regulatory checks down the Irish Sea that are already envisaged in the withdrawal agreement.” Boris Johnson speaking at the 2018 DUP conference.

"There will be no border down the Irish Sea… over my dead body." British Prime Minister Boris Johnson speaking to The Irish News in August 2020.

He had been the star at the previous year's DUP conference, decrying the backstop as a tool to turn Northern Ireland into an "economic semi-colony of the EU".

Boris Johnson has told Northern Ireland businesses they can put customs declarations forms “in the bin” because there will be “no barriers of any kind” to trade crossing the Irish Sea.

The Prime Minister has suggested Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay had been wrong to say goods between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK would face checks as a result of the Brexit deal struck with the European Union.




Boris Johnson, guilty as charged.......in his own words.......over his "dead body".

Boris Johnson, godfather and instigator of "Loyalist" riots.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by emason »

Cill Dara wrote:
10 Apr 2021 05:27
Boris Johnson, godfather and instigator of "Loyalist" riots.
Lord Caine wrote: "To say this is all about Brexit is pretty wilfully dumb.”
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

honza wrote:
10 Apr 2021 04:57
Ahoj everyone,

I had my second Moderna jab today exactly 28 days after my first in a proper medical facility with half a dozen professionals in attendance and a very friendly atmosphere. How does my experience compare to that of a similar person in the UK?

In Brexitland many have had a first dose, but few a second dose or certainly not one within the timeframe recommended by the manufacturers. It was probably from Astra Zeneca, which the UK government swore for weeks was absolutely safe and was a victim of an unfounded smear campaign by the EU, but which is now not recommended by the British government for younger people but is still being used up on the old and vulnerable.

To cut red tape and speed up the process it may well have been administered by a fireman or a vet in a drill hall or car park, albeit with union flags and flash-bulbs.

Not once has any self-designated 'non-racist' berated me for being a 'western migrant', who has no right to be treated in the Czech Republic.

So, trying to be objective. who has experienced the better treatment?

Cheers,

Honza
Quite possibly some of the most ridiculously ill thought out comments yet on this increasingly ridiculous thread.

The way you use the English language to phrase a ‘compliment’ whilst at the same time trying to belittle in the same sentence is an art form that you have perfected. I really hope you are a writer of some kind with your gift of making sentences have multiple meanings 😩

The fact that so many Brits ( of all different nationalities and ethnicities) have come together voluntarily to work for a common goal is testament to British character and something we are proud of. Our NHS has worked tirelessly throughout this epidemic and has brought the country together as one. Many EU countries wouldn’t understand such a concept of working together because of your inbuilt distrust of each other built on centuries of warfare and ethnic division. Czechoslovakia being a prime example.

So please keep your condescending comments to yourself. The EU completely messed up the vaccination process to begin with and that will NO DOUBT have caused many preventable deaths in recent months, something I’m sure you must feel very proud off as the EU can do no wrong in your eyes.

Taking digs at a vaccine even the EU regulator has said is SAFE FOR ALL and is far more beneficial than the possible risks, and clearly suggesting that us Brits won’t have the same protection as you superheroes in the EU is pure BS and demonstrates the hatred towards Britain amongst our so called allies there. Your attitude reinforces tenfold my belief we are far better outside the EU. It’s just a shame we can’t extend the English channel so there’s a further distance between us.

I’m going to watch with interest the deteriorating situation in Ukraine as no doubt the EU will be looking for British assistance with sanctions should Russia make a move. Suddenly then we are useful. Two faced!
Last edited by GB 789 on 10 Apr 2021 05:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

POLITICS-DUP-155089-640x360.jpg
I have known Johnson since the 1980s, when I edited the Daily Telegraph and he was our flamboyant Brussels correspondent. I have argued for a decade that, while he is a brilliant entertainer who made a popular maître d’ for London as its mayor, he is unfit for national office, because it seems he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification.

He would not recognise the truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade.

Max Hastings

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Cill Dara wrote:
10 Apr 2021 05:53
Image

I have known Johnson since the 1980s, when I edited the Daily Telegraph and he was our flamboyant Brussels correspondent. I have argued for a decade that, while he is a brilliant entertainer who made a popular maître d’ for London as its mayor, he is unfit for national office, because it seems he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification.

He would not recognise the truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade.

Max Hastings
Name a politician who isn’t out for themselves. I mean it’s on the bloody job specification!

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

GB 789 wrote:
10 Apr 2021 05:57


Name a politician who isn’t out for themselves. I mean it’s on the bloody job specification!

There will be no border down the Irish Sea… over my dead body." British Prime Minister Boris Johnson speaking to The Irish News in August 2020.

Boris Johnson has told Northern Ireland businesses they can put customs declarations forms “in the bin” because there will be “no barriers of any kind” to trade crossing the Irish Sea.



What happened?..........explain please. :mrgreen:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

The consequences of Boris Johnson’s careless Brexit are playing out in Belfast

The most powerful arguments against Brexit were never about trade and tariffs. They were about peace and war, about life and death. One was a general argument centred on the true, founding purpose of the European Union: to ensure that a continent mired in blood for centuries would not descend into conflict again. The other was more specific, peculiar to these islands: that shared membership of the EU had proved to be the key that unlocked peace in Northern Ireland after three decades of murderous pain.

The logic was simple enough. So long as both the UK and Ireland were in the same EU club, the border between them could be blurred, allowing people in the north to identify as British or Irish or both without too much friction. That was the foundation on which the Good Friday agreement, signed 23 years ago tomorrow, was built – a foundation that would be broken if either country were to break from Brussels. Taken together, these were the life-and-death arguments for continued UK membership of the EU, and some tried valiantly to make them. But they were barely heard.

Now, in the hurled petrol bombs and burning buses of west Belfast, comes ominous evidence that the warnings of 2016 were not exaggerated. Of course, violence has many fathers. Some of the areas now in flames are among the most deprived in the UK, with levels of educational attainment especially low. Loyalist communities have long felt left behind and, since the early death of the much-respected David Ervine, lack heavyweight political representation. Jonathan Powell, the former Downing Street chief of staff who was a key broker of the 1998 accord, says that the Democratic Unionist party “may use [the loyalists], but they don’t really care about them”.

There are more immediate causes too. Last month’s decision not to prosecute Sinn Féin officials who had broken Covid restrictions to turn out for the mass funeral of a senior IRA commander looked like a double standard that favoured republicans and therefore – given the zero-sum mindset that lingers in places of conflict – automatically injured loyalists. Add that together with the Easter weekend, the arrival of “white night” longer evenings, kids bored by lockdown and easily egged on by loyalist gang leaders, many of them akin to local mafia bosses up to their neck in organised crime, and the tinder was dry.

Still, that kindling had been in place in years past. The incendiary difference this time is Brexit. From January, British goods arriving into Northern Ireland became subject to EU customs checks for the first time. Loyalists regard themselves as British; yet now there is an official distinction between them and the country with which they identify.

This is the ineluctable logic of Brexit. Once Britain chose to be outside the single market and customs union while the Irish republic remained inside, there would always have to be a border. The only question was where. One option was a land border on the island of Ireland, once again separating north and south – which would appal nationalists. The other was a frontier in the Irish Sea, appalling unionists. Boris Johnson swore blind that he would never agree to any such thing, only to do exactly that – devising, negotiating, signing and passing into law the Northern Ireland protocol, which gives that part of the UK a separate status. The result is that loyalists feel that, once again, they have both lost out to the nationalists and been betrayed by London.

Of course, once Johnson had decided to break his own solemn pledge, loyalism and unionism were always going to be disaffected. But he has made things so much worse. Incredibly, the prime minister of the United Kingdom saw fit to do nothing at all until 9.33pm oOn the sixth day of unrest, when he issued a tweet calling for an end to violence. The former civil servant Tom Fletcher, who once had responsibility for Northern Ireland in Downing Street, tweeted that “there were moments when PM had to rip up grid, cancel break, let people down, stay up late, hit phones, spend, flatter, arm twist and do nothing else for week”. This, wrote Fletcher, was just such a moment. Yet Johnson is doing none of those things. What’s worse, if he did decide to get a grip, who among us thinks he would be capable of it? The patience, the diplomatic nous, the grasp of detail, the ingenuity and empathy required in such a situation – Johnson has none of them.

OK, so maybe he could delegate. Except even the Northern Ireland secretary, Brandon Lewis, wasn’t actually in Northern Ireland until Thursday, Lewis being the latest holder of the post to embody the government’s disregard – some might say contempt – for that part of the UK. Recall his predecessor, Karen Bradley, confessing that she had only just learned that “nationalists don’t vote for unionist parties and vice versa.” An exception was the diligent Julian Smith, who naturally was sacked for insufficient fealty to Brexit.

The obligation now is to make the protocol work, to minimise the tension it causes, which will demand flexibility from both London and Brussels. But it will always be a sisyphean task, because the protocol is an adjunct of Brexit – and Brexit took a wrecking ball to the delicate mechanism that was so painstakingly assembled 23 years ago. I don’t believe Johnson and his fellow Brexiters actively sought the unravelling of peace in Northern Ireland. In a way, it is worse than that. They were literally careless of the heartbreak and grief that had scarred that place. They did not care.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/09/boris- ... -agreement

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Cill Dara wrote:
10 Apr 2021 06:35
GB 789 wrote:
10 Apr 2021 05:57


Name a politician who isn’t out for themselves. I mean it’s on the bloody job specification!

There will be no border down the Irish Sea… over my dead body." British Prime Minister Boris Johnson speaking to The Irish News in August 2020.

Boris Johnson has told Northern Ireland businesses they can put customs declarations forms “in the bin” because there will be “no barriers of any kind” to trade crossing the Irish Sea.



What happened?..........explain please. :mrgreen:
To be honest he should just have gone all out and said let’s build a wall to keep those naughty neighbours in check. Boris is Boris, love him or hate him but least he had the balls to follow through getting us out of the German club. Your politicians are castrated by the EU and don’t make their own decisions, ask your equivalent Luxembourg about how much ‘freedom’ they have outside EU diktats.

As a big hairy American imitating a Scot once roared ‘FREEDOM!’

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Oh yes Cill, quote that impartial source the Guardian for evenhanded ‘factual’ information. They are avid Left wing remainers who wouldn’t admit to any benefit of Brexit even if it meant their dwindling circulation got a boost.

It’s like quoting the Daily Mail for facts about Meg and Haz! They aren’t impartial so it’s not facts no matter what the Dara household may think.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

GB 789 wrote:
10 Apr 2021 06:49
roared ‘FREEDOM!’
But German exports to the UK fell by 12.2% on the year in February and imports slumped 26.9%, the German Federal Statistics Office said. Germany is the UK's biggest trading partner.


What a cunning plan, Private Pike..........do Carry On Regardless. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

GB 789 wrote:
10 Apr 2021 06:53
Oh yes Cill, quote that impartial source the Guardian for evenhanded ‘factual’ information.

Northern Ireland: Broken Brexit promises threaten to turn back the clock on fragile peace

A feeling of betrayal among Loyalists caused by Boris Johnson and his Brexit deal precipitated the violence seen this week.


https://news.sky.com/story/broken-brexit-promises-threaten-t ... e-12270938


How about Sky News..........Private Pike?

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by GB 789 »

Cill Dara wrote:
10 Apr 2021 19:56
GB 789 wrote:
10 Apr 2021 06:49
roared ‘FREEDOM!’
But German exports to the UK fell by 12.2% on the year in February and imports slumped 26.9%, the German Federal Statistics Office said. Germany is the UK's biggest trading partner.


What a cunning plan, Private Pike..........do Carry On Regardless. :lol: :lol: :lol:
And yet again it seems you have been totally blind to world events in the last year. You cannot judge anything on these last 12 months so stop wasting your days endlessly searching for articles that link to your BS rhetoric. Do you literally have nothing else better to do with your life than read every news site going in case a Brexit article pops up.

Very sad, go enjoy the beauty of your green and pleasant land rather than stuck in glued to a computer screen. You can make these comments in 10 years if things turn out this way but not in the midst of a worldwide pandemic 14 weeks after we left the EU 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Global Administrator »

Cill Dara wrote:
10 Apr 2021 20:00


Northern Ireland: Broken Brexit promises threaten to turn back the clock on fragile peace

A feeling of betrayal among Loyalists caused by Boris Johnson and his Brexit deal precipitated the violence seen this week.


https://news.sky.com/story/broken-brexit-promises-threaten-t ... e-12270938

The perpetual head in the sand Brit brigade here, might at least be relieved to learn the week of continuous rioting and violence due to the Irish Brexit deal, (that they deny has occurred!) appears to be on hold for a few days at least, in respect for the death of the Duke Of Edinburgh.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Unfortunately the sectarian sentiments existing in N. Ireland were not "solved" by the "Friday Agreement" but just put on hold. The so called "peace walls" being one symptom. We see this all over the World- old enmities which for some reason people cannot let go of- e.g the break up of Yugoslavia; more recently the Armenia and Azerbaijan conflict. Perhaps it is just the human condition but some of us had hoped that we could move past.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by honza »

Ahoj again!

I received notification yesterday of next year's increase to my UK pension (I have had Brexiteers tell me I am not entitled to a British pension as I live abroad, even though I have contributed into it all my working life.)
I am apparently entitled to an increase because I am classified as living in a European Economic Area country (no mention of the dreaded EU)

Australia also seems to sneak in, but NO increase for those resident in Canada or New Zealand!

What was most interesting, however, was that the letter posted by the Department for Work & Pensions has a Port Louis Mauritius indicium. Some scam to save a few pence at the expense of Royal Mail, I suppose, but hardly in the spirit of Brexit and taking back control. I bet it was handled by Royal Mail anyway . but for a lower fee via a sub-contract with Mauritius.

Used abroad anyone or cto (cancelled to order)?


MAU pension dept post 2021.jpg
Cheers,

Honza

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Re: Britain's EU Referendum 2016 and its Political Consequen

Post by honza »

gavin-h wrote:
03 Jul 2016 03:43
Agreed! Very interesting indeed.

As a "natural" Leaver who voted "Remain" (my reasons for doing so and my opinions of Fool Farage, Buffoon Boris and Pipsqueak Gove are well documented on this thread!) I'd be MORE than happy if "Bradby's Best Guess" was close to the mark.

OOps Gavin!! Any chance of revising this before the Buffoon at Central Office comes across it? :lol:

Ask Cill Dara for the words to the Vicar of Bray.

By the way I thought you made a spirited attempt to polish the Brexit turd in your last reply, but at least you were honest enough not to claim white was black and that my Covid vaccine experience was inferior to what is on offer in the UK

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: Britain's EU Referendum 2016 and its Political Consequen

Post by gavin-h »

honza wrote:
11 Apr 2021 04:44
OOps Gavin!! Any chance of revising this before the Buffoon at Central Office comes across it? :lol:
No chance at all! It represents an accurate summary of my view at the time and I'll stand or fall by that.

In the intervening 4½ years, Boris has risen somewhat in my estimation. I supported him in the 2019 leadership election as the best candidate to get the job done. I do not believe he's a buffoon although he does a good impersonation of one at times - but rhetoric is rhetoric I suppose. As to Farage and Gove? Well as Marvin Lee Aday once said (sang) "Two out of three ain't bad!" :lol: :lol:

I can't comment on how your vaccination experience compares to my own and wouldn't presume to rank one as better (or worse) than the other. As long at it ends up with the sauce in the arm, it's a success in my view - and the more of us that have the jab, the sooner we can beat this damned thing and get back to our jaundiced views of normality! :idea:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Global Administrator »

Global Administrator wrote:
10 Apr 2021 21:33
Cill Dara wrote:
10 Apr 2021 20:00


Northern Ireland: Broken Brexit promises threaten to turn back the clock on fragile peace

A feeling of betrayal among Loyalists caused by Boris Johnson and his Brexit deal precipitated the violence seen this week.


https://news.sky.com/story/broken-brexit-promises-threaten-t ... e-12270938

The perpetual head in the sand Brit brigade here, might at least be relieved to learn the week of continuous rioting and violence due to the Irish Brexit deal, (that they deny has occurred!) appears to be on hold for a few days at least, in respect for the death of the Duke Of Edinburgh.

R.I.P.
.

Well so much for that idea.
:roll: :roll: :roll:


Northern Ireland sees further night of violence despite calls for calm following Prince Phillip’s death

The death of Prince Phillip on Friday failed to prevent the eighth straight night of rioting in Northern Ireland.

Prominent loyalist politicians and activists called for rioters to remain at home to mark the death of the Duke of Edinburgh.

Jim Allister, party leader of the Traditional Unionist Voice party, said: “It would also be appropriate, at this time of national mourning, for those rightly proud of their loyalty to the Crown to cease demonstrations.”

Alongside these demands, loyalist activists laid signs calling for protests to be postponed at the intersection between loyalist and republican roads at Lanark Way.

Ireland correspondent for Sky News, Stephen Murphy, said: “Some of those with posters are very serious men. Their words carry weight here, and for the most part, the more hot-headed teenagers who had been protesting – or rioting – stayed home tonight.”

Despite these calls, Friday saw a further 14 police officers injured in street clashes – taking the total number of injured service people to 88 – as they were pelted with petrol bombs and other debris thrown by rioters.




PUL-Protest-Signs.jpg
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by OldDuffer1 »

.
Not directly related to the thread but surely one idea is not to clear up after these scenes of destruction.

Surely the local population would soon get fed up, (and perhaps put pressure on the perpetrators), if their everyday life was inconvenienced by burnt out buses etc.!

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