Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Waffle »

another incomprehensible comment. Perhaps he needs to speak to Nurse Rachet. Perhaps this is a new comedy routine being attempted.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

satsuma wrote:It seems to me that the most tangible benefit is being able to create independent legislation on immigration, residence and visitation.
I keep seeing this being quoted as a benefit of Brexit but I cannot see the truth in this.

The EU has always recognised the right of each sovereign country to know who is living within it's borders.

Just look at some other countries in the EU where you have to register as resident for a period and gain access to the social benefits of that country usually on a sliding scale dependant upon how long you have been resident and your behaviour.

Each country has always had the ability to control immigration nothing has changed for the UK post Brexit except the EU can no longer be blamed for immigrants who are given benefits by the UK.

The UK government has always had the right to create independent legislation on immigration, residence and visitation.

The slight benefit here is that the UK government can no longer hide behind the skirts of the EU when dealing with immigration issues.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

A long-running dispute between Britain and Greece over ancient treasures has spilled into tension over Brexit after a demand for the return of stolen cultural artefacts was added to the draft of a European Union negotiating mandate.

The British Museum in London has refused to return the Parthenon Marbles, 2,500-year-old sculptures that British diplomat Lord Elgin removed from Athens in the early 19th century when Greece was under Ottoman Turkish rule.

A draft of the 27 EU nations' position on negotiations with Britain on their future relationship, which was seen by Reuters, seeks the "return or restitution of unlawfully removed cultural objects to their countries of origin".


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/0218/1116159-elgin-marbles/


Greece wants its looted Marbles returned, Spain wants its looted Rock returned..........Ireland wants its looted North East returned.

Easiest trade deal ever. :wink:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Global Administrator »

Cill Dara wrote:
Greece wants its looted Marbles returned, Spain wants its looted Rock returned..........Ireland wants its looted North East returned.
Certainly two of three have some cultural significance. :mrgreen:
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Somerset »

Cill Dara wrote:A long-running dispute between Britain and Greece over ancient treasures has spilled into tension over Brexit after a demand for the return of stolen cultural artefacts was added to the draft of a European Union negotiating mandate.

The British Museum in London has refused to return the Parthenon Marbles, 2,500-year-old sculptures that British diplomat Lord Elgin removed from Athens in the early 19th century when Greece was under Ottoman Turkish rule.

A draft of the 27 EU nations' position on negotiations with Britain on their future relationship, which was seen by Reuters, seeks the "return or restitution of unlawfully removed cultural objects to their countries of origin".


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/0218/1116159-elgin-marbles/


Greece wants its looted Marbles returned, Spain wants its looted Rock returned..........Ireland wants its looted North East returned.

Easiest trade deal ever. :wink:
It is clear that those at the top of the EU do not want a trade deal. Fine - let's use WTO rules - but I wouldn't want to be the one telling the French wine growers that Australian wines are suddenly much cheaper (thanks to the trade deal we will have) whist their wines are more expensive.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by norvic »

Europe's problems are worse than that. Watch Travels in Euroland (ep 3) (at 17 minutes)

Italian farmers in the poor south, Calabria, complaining that imports are making their products worthless - imports from Spain, France, etc, ie from within the EU.

An interesting 3-part series showing how last year's seismic change in European (and British) politics has taken place and why.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

UK fishermen continue to benefit from easy access to the EU market, with 85% of all UK shellfish exports worth £360 million heading for European shores in 2015, Environment Secretary Elizabeth Truss said today.

UK fishermen currently have easy access to Europe, free from tariffs or other unnecessary red tape, but outside the EU the potential loss to fish and shellfish exporters could be up to £100m, with an average tariff of 10%.


With the UK exporting twice as much seafood to Europe than to the rest of the world - from scallops to France and langoustines to Spain - £360 million of British seafood is heading for Europe’s markets, making a splash on their menus.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/360-million-of-uk-seafood ... pean-menus

Ah well........that was then. :wink:

Anyone for WTO rules? :?:

Brits will still have to comply with EU rules, to even have access............45% of your exports. :mrgreen:

Easiest trade deal ever..........whatever happened to Dr. Liam Fox?

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Just been looking at the proposed new immigration rules and found this.
Priti Patel has defended the Government's new immigration points system as she insisted it was 'not the end of the Polish builder'.

The Home Secretary said that so long as labourers "have the right kind of skills" they would be welcome to come to the UK.
The right kind of skills are laid out in the points system, minimum of a Phd in science probably atomic physics will help. They forgot to say the Phd needs to have been obtained at Oxford or Cambridge.

The Polish builder will probably be a special case, but then what about the cabbage pickers the farmers need?

Must also remember the Romanian, Jamaican and all the other builders Britain needs to build all those nice new homes.

Maybe just a little overkill.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

Home secretary Priti Patel has conceded in an interview on LBC radio that her parents might not have been admitted to the UK under the immigration rules she is proposing.

Interviewer Nick Ferrari – who traces his own background to an immigrant in the catering industry – told the home secretary that under her own rules: “You wouldn’t be here.”

She replied: “Yeah, but also let’s not forget we are not changing our approach to refugees and asylum seekers, which is very different to a points-based system for employment and that particular route.”

Ms Patel later suggested that her family may have been dealt with under arrangements for those fleeing mistreatment abroad, rather than those for migrant workers, as they had faced persecution in Uganda.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/priti-patel-i ... 43571.html


Hashtag........Windrush Priti back to Uganda? :wink:

Priti announced that there are 8,000,000 economically inactive Brits available.......no doubt to carry out such tasks as snagging turnips and wiping bums in care homes.

Paging the members for North West England and Yorkshire........your country need you. :mrgreen:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

I must admit
economically inactive
has thrown me a little.

Does she mean everyone in care homes must first wipe their own bums and then report to the turnip fields?

Seeing that term being used makes me think it is all spin. Why not just say no access to benefits for five years, and your qualifications must meet the job requirements, so a bricklayer only needs to know how to lay bricks not how to run a nuclear power station.

I did see that an English test is to be introduced as well, of course we all know how turnips, cabbages and bricks can hold an intelligent conversation for ages. Those studying for Phd's now have something to look forward to.

The piece i was reading led onto the story about the Jamaican deportees who had dabbled in drugs, Pritti Patel apparently said there is no dabbling in drugs they commit a serious offense. I think that was before she remembered that Boris had "dabbled in drugs" at an earlier age. No need to worry though I checked the flights at Heathrow and there are none to cloud cuckoo land so we cannot deport Boris for dabbling in drugs.

After reading that I decided not to take an aspirin this morning as I went to the recycling bins just in case the new anti terrorist cameras fitted at the recycling point picked me up. Should have thought a little more as that could be seen as me being mistreated so just need to change my status from citizen to asylum seeker.

Why on earth they did not do this forty years ago beats me.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by norvic »

Totally clueless - absolutely bonkers, and dangerous.
"We have over 8m people - that is 20 per cent of the workforce - aged between 16 and 64 that are economically inactive right now. It is down to businesses to work well with the Government and join us in investing in people, levelling up across the UK so we can have wage growth across the entire country."

Figures from the Office for National Statistics show that only 1.9m of the 8.48m economically inactive UK residents say they want a job, with the others declaring themselves unavailable for work.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/priti-patel-home-secretary ... ts-1884724
are they all ready to take a job?

No.

Not all of them.

Not even most of them.

Why not?

Well, because 'economic inactivity' is not the same as 'unemployment'.

It's a completely different thing. Unemployment - which is much, much smaller - measures people who don't have a job but have been 'actively' seeking one in the last four weeks.

The huge category of 'inactive' people contains millions who have a good reason for not being in work.

Of the 8.5million (numbers may not add perfectly due to rounding):

* 2.3million are students
* 2.1million are long-term sick
* 1.9million are looking after a family or home
* 1.1million are retired (but under the age of 65)
* 160,000 are temporarily sick

* 947,000 fall into a category called 'other'

So how many of them do want a job?

According to the ONS, 1.9million of the 8.5million economically inactive people want a job. Which is a large number, but is not in any way the same as 8.5million.

Of those 1.9million people who want a job, 571,000 are long-term sick, 471,000 are looking after family or their home and 405,000 are students.

It's possible that some of those long-term sick people are trying to get a job but, for example, finding it difficult due to their particular needs. Or that students are struggling to get a part-time job with the right balance.

Some of them do of course get jobs.

Between summer and winter 2019, 67,000 'economically inactive' people got a job, according to the ONS.

However, that was dwarfed by 104,000 who moved from 'inactivity' to official 'unemployment'.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/8million-inactive-brits-cant-just-21528791
The biggest category is students, who account for 27% of the inactive. They may be able to take on part-time jobs, but could not be relied upon to deal with the staff shortages that some business groups have warned about.

Another 26% of the inactive population count as sick - almost all of whom are long-term sick.

Next up, 22% of the inactive are those who are looking after their homes or caring for family members.

The fourth most common reason for economic inactivity is people who have retired before the age of 65 - that's 13% of the total.

There is a very small category - less than half a percent - who describe themselves as "discouraged workers".

The last 11% are classified as "other", which includes people who say they have not yet started looking for work, those awaiting the results of job applications and some who say they do not need to work.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by gavin-h »

Notwithstanding the slant put on this by the oh-so-neutral Daily Mirror [and elsewhere by the biased-but-don't-know-they-are BBC], I agree that it seems very odd to be suggesting this.

As one of the "economically inactive" (though receiving a private pension and a councillor's allowance/pittance) I certainly will NOT be heading out to pick fruit, lay bricks or wipe the incontinent's ar5es for them.

And neither will Mrs-H.

As to the other 1.099998 million retired (but under the age of 65), I can't speak for them but I suspect most will feel similarly.

Not the most auspicious start to Boris' Brave New World.

Still, there are always roles for people who put their mouth into gear before their brains. Or, as we sometimes call them: politicians.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

Conservative MP Priti Patel has said her comments about Britain preventing food imports to Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit have been “taken out of context”.

The former British international development minister has been condemned on both sides of the Irish Sea for her remarks in the Times that Britain could prevent the use of its country as a landbridge between Ireland and the continent.

In such a scenario she suggested this possibility could be used to exert pressure on the Irish Government to drop its insistence on the backstop.

Many responses to her comments have referenced the Great Famine between 1845 and 1849.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/brexit-tory-mp-back ... -1.3725093


Pretty Pathetic has previous form............an obnoxious dwarf.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Waffle »

Ah We are back to the name calling. Shoot the messenger.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by norvic »

Pretty Pathetic - when in deep, keep digging!
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Thanks norvic for explaining 'economically inactive' my imagination was moving down the lines of bringing back the undead to do her bidding!

Hi gavin-h you can add another 2 to those who will not be heading out to pick turnips.

Hi waffle name calling? I assume you are referring to the 'obnoxious dwarf' comment.

Personally if some one told me that they were going to starve my children until I agreed with them I would find that quite obnoxious so I see no problem with that descriptor.

The dwarf bit I cannot comment on as I do not know If Pritti Patel is a dwarf or not so this word needs to be replaced.

Now when someone threatens to do obnoxious things to you until you agree with them they are usually called bullies so we can change this to 'obnoxious bully' which is then not name calling.

What she proposed there has been tried before in somewhere called Berlin. I would expect someone in such a high office in the UK to also know that it did not work then and was probably doomed to failure again.

It is the backstop again! Is that not caused by the hole the UK government has dug for itself?

A while ago the UK signed the Good Friday Agreement keeping the border between north and south Ireland open.

While the UK was a member of the EU that was no bother, after leaving it became a problem as the UK now has the task of keeping the border open and closing it at the same time!

A problem unique to the UK to which the UK needs to come up with a solution for without bullying it's neighbors hopefully.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Waffle »

Thank you collector Dave. Point Taken.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by satsuma »

norvic wrote:
Well, because 'economic inactivity' is not the same as 'unemployment'.

It's a completely different thing. Unemployment - which is much, much smaller - measures people who don't have a job but have been 'actively' seeking one in the last four weeks.
But surely even the people who choose not to have jobs are not economically inactive?

Don't they go down to the pub and buy fags and the scandal sheets, buy tickets so they have somewhere to be soccer hooligans, and generally move money from till #1 to till #2?

The UK has deeper problems than are apparent if that isn't recognized as economic activity.

Even those fine upstanding pillars of society - those of independent means, are buying their Bollinger and Veuve Cliquot, when out on the town.

Perhaps some new definitions are required?

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

norvic wrote:Pretty Pathetic - when in deep, keep digging!
OK, it seems that I got it wrong.

Obnoxious Priti is above average height, for a Sasanach cailín.

The average Sasanach, male and female, is 3.6 cm/1.4 inches shorter than you know where. :mrgreen:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by norvic »

satsuma wrote:
norvic wrote:
Well, because 'economic inactivity' is not the same as 'unemployment'.

It's a completely different thing. Unemployment - which is much, much smaller - measures people who don't have a job but have been 'actively' seeking one in the last four weeks.
But surely even the people who choose not to have jobs are not economically inactive?

Don't they go down to the pub and buy fags and the scandal sheets, buy tickets so they have somewhere to be soccer hooligans, and generally move money from till #1 to till #2?

The UK has deeper problems than are apparent if that isn't recognized as economic activity.

Even those fine upstanding pillars of society - those of independent means, are buying their Bollinger and Veuve Cliquot, when out on the town.

Perhaps some new definitions are required?
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Britcollector »

To answer the original question:

Inside Britain, besides millions of gallons of ink, trillions of elctrons, and global warming from all the hot air, it cost the careers of two politicians: Mr. Cameron and Mrs. May.

In the remaining European Union the cost may be much greater. The main reason is that GB was a net provider of funds (aka a cash cow) used to support the nations that had a negative financial contribution. According to one tabloid, that has left a €75billion hole in the budget and Austria, Denmark, Holland and Sweden are refusing to increase their contributions to cover the Brexit gap. This in turn means that Germany and France must increase their contributions significantly. Ach du lieber Gott !, or Merde Alors !

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

It would be interesting to see how the tabloid calculated the figure of the €75 billion hole in the EU budget.

According to one source the UK paid €8.93 billion into the EU in 2018 and received back in subsidies etc €8.52 billion.

The money back is not quite accurate as it does not take into account research grants etc paid to private companies.

This leaves a net EU budget hole of 410 million euros per year.

So to reach the 75 billion figure you need to see over how many years it will take. Just about 183 years before the missing UK contribution adds up to 75 billion.

In the meantime the UK government is pushing ahead spending billions on HS2 etc.

The scary bit for me is I have not seen any government announcement that the subsidies paid to our fishermen and farmers or any other EU funded projects will be maintained by the UK government post brexit.

Britain did make a large contribution to the EU budget about 11% but we must remember that post brexit there will be a reduction in the spending of the EU as the UK will no longer receive EU funds.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Just a laugh.

Hello EU, you need us more than we need you.

Now we have told you would mind awfully printing our passports?
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

collectordave wrote:Just a laugh.

Hello EU, you need us more than we need you.

Now we have told you would mind awfully printing our passports?

Britain’s new post-Brexit passports are actually being made in a factory in Poland, it has emerged. The new colours have been championed by Brexiteers as a symbol of ‘regaining our national identity.’ However, the contract for the newly-issued documents was awarded to a French company and they are reportedly being manufactured in the Polish town of Tczew.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/22/new-brexit-blue-british-passp ... wsnow-feed


Wyprodukowane w Polsce...........and not Fabriqué en France. :wink:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by psestamp »

Cill Dara wrote:
collectordave wrote:Just a laugh.

Hello EU, you need us more than we need you.

Now we have told you would mind awfully printing our passports?

Britain’s new post-Brexit passports are actually being made in a factory in Poland, it has emerged. The new colours have been championed by Brexiteers as a symbol of ‘regaining our national identity.’ However, the contract for the newly-issued documents was awarded to a French company and they are reportedly being manufactured in the Polish town of Tczew.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/22/new-brexit-blue-british-passp ... wsnow-feed


Wyprodukowane w Polsce...........and not Fabriqué en France. :wink:
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Brit-Col »

norvic wrote:Next up, 22% of the inactive are those who are looking after their homes or caring for family members.

The fourth most common reason for economic inactivity is people who have retired before the age of 65 - that's 13% of the total.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to sidetrack the thread but I’m perplexed about how looking after a home prevents one from working? As someone in the 4th category who retired before age 65 I find that looking after my home requires exactly the same time and effort as it did while I was still working. There must be some nuance that I am overlooking.

BC

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

@cill dara Like the cartoon seems to sum up how I see it all now. Only two waiting round the corner?

Now we are trying to help the EU not to miss our €410 million contribution by giving them a contract for €260 million to print our passports?

Of course also after Ms Patel has said the new immigration rules will not stop the Polish builders from building our houses.

Does this mean that post brexit we can sit in our polish built house clutching desperatly to our polish printed passport safe in the knowledge that we have struck a blow for our national identity because they have a blue coloured front and some pretty symbols on the back?

Maybe whoever in the government read 'Econimics for Dummies' should have kept reading a little further to where it explains free trade agreements are good for business.

@Brit-Col You are not the only one a little perplexed, first though you may have been counted twice. You look after your home and you are retired early! This means you are twice as economically inactive as Ms Patel appears to propose. Could be she thinks that anyone who fits into more than one category should get more than one job e.g. you wipe the bums of those in the care home with the cabbage you picked that morning.

The category thing is just a divide and conquer tactic.

First you invent a new grouping lets say 'economically inactive' as a start.

Next make it sound bad for the country.

After that make up loads of different categories that fit in that group. The more the merrier.

Then when you are serving in the government you pick on the easiest category to 'improve' throw money at it until it goes away then you can have your picture in the tabloids showing what a good government you are as you have sorted this category of the economically inactive.

Maybe get re-elected as you have done such a good job.

I am not being a little sarcastic just the way I see it.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

The EU has warned Boris Johnson of “sanctions” if he fails to implement controversial goods checks in the Irish Sea after Brexit, opening up a fresh potential clash with the UK.

Brussels will “not tolerate any backsliding or half measures”, the senior adviser to chief negotiator Michel Barnier said – after the prime minister repeatedly claimed checks would not be necessary.

Stefaan De Rynck insisted the inspections were a joint legal agreement, as the price for Britain – but not Northern Ireland – breaking free of the single market and customs union.

Crucially – and to the likely fury of Tory MPs – the ECJ will retain the power to fine the UK even after the transition period ends, at the end of 2020, when Brussels rule-making is meant to be over.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-boris- ... 97791.html


Perfidious Albion at work.............plus ça change. :roll:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Now that England is out of the EU they can tell the EU where they can shove it.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by gavin-h »

Brit-Col wrote:
norvic wrote:Next up, 22% of the inactive are those who are looking after their homes or caring for family members.

The fourth most common reason for economic inactivity is people who have retired before the age of 65 - that's 13% of the total.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to sidetrack the thread but I’m perplexed about how looking after a home prevents one from working? As someone in the 4th category who retired before age 65 I find that looking after my home requires exactly the same time and effort as it did while I was still working. There must be some nuance that I am overlooking.

BC
I don't think it's about "preventing" one from working, more about choice.

The "economically inactive" term is a poor one because it doesn't explore the attitudes in play and doesn't state the facts properly.

As an "early retired" I am in no way prevented from working and I'm certainly not inactive.

I made a calculation that I could afford to stop working and could live off my occupational pension. I reached the point in my life that my time was more valuable to me than the extra money I could earn.

I still spend money to the benefit of the economy, I may be "non-productive" in that I don't make anything or provide a service but I still contribute to the profits of my local supermarket, pub, restaurants, car dealer, stamp dealers etc etc etc...

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by norvic »

Ubobo.R.O. wrote:Now that England is out of the EU they can tell the EU where they can shove it.
OK, I really must pull you up on 'England' - it's the United Kingdom. I'm surprise at you; this is something we normally get from les continentals - and the Americans!
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by OldDuffer1 »

norvic wrote: OK, I really must pull you up on 'England' - it's the United Kingdom. I'm surprise at you; this is something we normally get from les continentals - and the Americans!
Surely not so wrong- Scotland and N. Ireland didn't want to leave and Wales doesn't even exist according to the EU!

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

See ! I wus right ! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

@Cill Dara Interesting article.

So now Boris wants to renege on obligations he & the UK parliament have agreed to and has been reminded that there will be consequences.

Quite funny to think of all those Tory MP's standing in front of mirrors furious with themselves for passing Boris's deal into UK law.

I do wish the UK government would hurry up and tell us all how they propose to settle the Irish question of closing the border but keeping it open instead of just saying border checks will not be needed, tell us why they are not needed!
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

Brexit: UK reneging on Northern Ireland pledges risks trade deals with US and EU

Concerns raised after reports negotiating team told to devise plans to ‘get around’ protocol in withdrawal agreement.

The Northern Ireland protocol kicks in from 1 January 2021 whether there is a trade deal with the EU or not.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/23/brexit-uk-r ... -us-and-eu


Why US trade deal impact?.......US Congress has made it clear, screw around with the Good Friday Agreement means no trade deal.

But Trumpie can deliver the trade deal?...........no, that's not the way it works, Congress has to approve first.

Your move Boris. :wink:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by emason »

It seems the EU's useful Irish idiot has outlived his usefulness.
Leo Varadkar has been hung out to dry by the EU
A year ago, did anyone look like they would come out of Brexit better than Leo Varadkar? Here was a leader of a small country on the fringe of the EU suddenly catapulted to its centre. He was the one pushed forward by Juncker, Barnier, Merkel and Macron, as they sought to leverage advantage from the tricky problem of the Irish border. Not only was Varadkar seen to be standing up for the Republic’s interest, but by driving a wedge between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, he seemed to be setting himself up as the instigator of possible Irish reunification – he was drawing the issue away from the nationalists.

Last night, Varadkar resigned as Taoiseach after a humiliating general election defeat two weeks ago. Hardly any voters seemed interested in rewarding him for standing up for Ireland’s interests in the Brexit negotiations, and while Brexit seems to have rekindled the nationalists’ hope of Irish unity it wasn’t Varadkar and Fine Gael who prospered – it was the full-fat nationalists in the shape of Sinn Fein.

But the humiliation is not entirely over for Varadkar. For the moment, he stays on as caretaker leader until a government can be formed. In that capacity, it has fallen to him to negotiate the EU’s budget for the next seven years. These were never going to be easy negotiations given that the EU’s coffers have just been left with a Britain-sized hole. But if Varadkar was expecting any favours from the EU for his role in Brexit negotiations he has been left sorely disappointed. Ireland has been asked to pay more into the EU’s coffers while suffering sharp cuts both to payments for farmers under the Common Agricultural Policy and to infrastructure under EU cohesion funds. Varadkar has called the proposals ‘unacceptable’, but is unlikely to win any concessions given that Germany and a bundle of other Northern European ‘frugals’ are holding out strongly against any increased burden on them.

The sad thing is that Varadkar was exploited and now he has been hung out to dry. During the Brexit talks, he was drafted in to do the EU’s dirty work for it. The EU hit upon the issue of the Irish border as a device to try to trap the UK in EU regulations forever and Varadkar was used in order to help exaggerate the border issue. It never did make much sense why Britain would have to remain in full alignment with EU regulations purely to avoid a hard border in Ireland when Switzerland has a free-flowing border with several EU countries in spite of not being a member of the EU, the single market or the customs union. Even so, the EU nearly pulled off its trick. Had parliament voted for Theresa May’s deal – which even Boris and Jacob Rees-Mogg did at the third time of asking – the EU would now be rubbing its hands having neutralised the threat of a competitive, free-trading and deregulated Britain.

But the ruse failed, and with it, Varadkar’s stock has taken a horrible plunge. Let his fate serve as a warning to the leaders of other small EU countries – don’t expect any reward for acts of loyalty towards the EU’s leaders.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/leo-varadkar-has-been-hung-out-to-dry-by-the-eu/

Spectator 21 February 2020
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

emason wrote:It seems the EU's useful Irish idiot has outlived his usefulness.

Spectator 21 February 2020
This Ross Clark? ..................... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Editorship of The Spectator has often been a step on the ladder to high office in the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom. Past editors include Boris Johnson (1999–2005)

He is the author of several books, including How to Label a Goat: the silly Rules and Regulations that are strangling Britain[2] and The Great Before, a novel which satirised the pessimism of the green movement.[3] He is a frequent critic of British government policy, especially on its interventions in the housing market.



Report to your nearest care home for bum wiping duties...........or admission. :mrgreen:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by emason »

Cill Dara wrote:This Ross Clark? ..................... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Editorship of The Spectator has often been a step on the ladder to high office in the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom. Past editors include Boris Johnson (1999–2005)

He is the author of several books, including How to Label a Goat: the silly Rules and Regulations that are strangling Britain[2] and The Great Before, a novel which satirised the pessimism of the green movement.[3] He is a frequent critic of British government policy, especially on its interventions in the housing market.
That's right - when you don't like the facts in the message - shoot the messenger.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Shooting himself in the foot is Cill Dara's speciality.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

emason wrote: That's right - when you don't like the facts in the message - shoot the messenger.
I am having a little problem with the facts in the message.

I have this one so far:-

Taoiseach resigns after losing general election.

Am I missing any facts?
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Waffle »

Now if only Cill Dara wolud resign after ALL his parties loosing the election.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

Iain Duncan-Smith says it's time for experts to handle Brexit as 'there are problems ahead'

After dismissing them for the last four years, Iain Duncan-Smith says that Brexit now needs to hear from the experts to make it a success.


In the latest strategy from the Leavers, civil servants appear to be getting the blame for Brexit's potential to go terribly wrong.

Iain Duncan-Smith is one of the leading pro-Brexit voices who now claims that the negotiating team are the wrong ones to secure satisfactory deals with the EU and US.

He told BBC Radio 5 Live: "I think there are problems ahead for the UK.


https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/iain-duncan-smi ... -1-6528371


Experts required...........send CV to Dominic Cummings, The Garret, Downing Street. :mrgreen:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Ignoring warnings ahead of the EU referendum vote in 2016, Brexiteer minister Michael Gove famously claimed that "people in this country have had enough of experts".
Still had enough of experts.
You need people who are looking through absolutely everything with an understanding of what to look for. This is the key bit.
So what he is saying is that the UK government haven't got a clue but the EU have great experience in negotiating. How are we going to do better now we are out?

Need to rest now mind boggled.

Trying to help

Here is an EU expert they can employ no need for freedom of movement

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/question-time-b ... -1-6525925
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by emason »

Cill Dara wrote:Iain Duncan-Smith says it's time for experts to handle Brexit as 'there are problems ahead'

Iain Duncan-Smith is one of the leading pro-Brexit voices who now claims that the negotiating team are the wrong ones to secure satisfactory deals with the EU and US.
You're eager to quote the words of IDS when it suits you, yet . . .
Cill Dara wrote:. . . bloody IDS! :lol: :lol: :lol:
. . . mock others for doing the same.

I call that hypocrisy.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

If you are going to ridicule situations you need to have a good memory. Cill Dara failed.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Have been sent an image of a headline, I do not know which newspaper it is from but it reads.

PM:Taking back control on Dec 31 'more important than a trade deal'

Trying to work out what is being said.

There is no 'Taking back control on Dec 31' the UK and the EU have allready agreed that is the deadline for the transition period. So all the PM has to do is nothing and the deadline will arrive.

Trade deals done by the governement are the tools that UK business use to be competitive in the world market securing jobs and bringing money into the UK economy.

What he is saying seems to be 'Doing nothing is more important than securing jobs in the UK' ?

I can understand the do nothing part as if the border question is not answered by then the EU will have to take unilateral action to secure it's borders and we will be back to the same old excuses. Oh was that bad it is the fault of the EU then.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

collectordave wrote:
emason wrote: That's right - when you don't like the facts in the message - shoot the messenger.
I am having a little problem with the facts in the message.

I have this one so far:-

Taoiseach resigns after losing general election.

Am I missing any facts?
So it seems I am not missing any facts.

There are a couple of almost facts though.
But the humiliation is not entirely over for Varadkar. For the moment, he stays on as caretaker leader until a government can be formed. In that capacity, it has fallen to him to negotiate the EU’s budget for the next seven years. These were never going to be easy negotiations given that the EU’s coffers have just been left with a Britain-sized hole.
A Britain-sized hole? Yes the UK will not be paying money into the EU but by the same token the EU will not be paying money back into the UK, so Britain-sized hole in receipts minus the Britain-sized hole in outgoings equals very little impact or even none on the overall EU budget.
It never did make much sense why Britain would have to remain in full alignment with EU regulations purely to avoid a hard border in Ireland when Switzerland has a free-flowing border with several EU countries in spite of not being a member of the EU, the single market or the customs union.
Just a little confusion here. Maintaining a free-flowing border between North and South Ireland is a uniquely UK problem and makes a lot of sense. To maintain a free flowing border you need to have alignment of the regulations in each country as an example, post brexit the UK sign a trade deal with the USA allowing the import of acid washed chickens which they get very cheaply, probably because no-one else wants them. Without alignment of regulations the UK can of course do that.

With a free-flowing border the UK could then send these chickens over the border to be sold in the EU where they are banned.

The UK could of course have more stringent regulations to maintain standards, they do not need to be in alignment but this would make nonsense of a deregulated Britain. Of course with higher standards and the regulations to maintain them no acid washed chickens.

Switzerland is not a member of the EU and does have free flowing borders up to a point.

These have been negotiated over the last 10-20 years and resulted in a series of bilateral treaties between Switzerland and the EU meaning that all the main points of EU law that allow freedom of movement, health care, the standard of goods imported or exported and a host of other things are maintained.

Switzerland has also signed up to the Schengen agreement and does make payments to the EU.

Even after all that border checks are still required (not passport checks) on goods etc.

An arrangement like Switzerland has could work to keep the North South Ireland border open for people but not goods which may allow the UK to not violate the Good Friday Agreement but do we put brexit on hold for 10 years while it is negotiated?

I think in this case I would shoot the messenger not because of the fact, politicians lose elections and resign all the time, but the message appears to me to be biased with the messengers own opinion and a few pseudo facts.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Former MP for South West Hertfordshire David Gauke believes the Prime Minister is wasting his time trying to convince the EU to keep trading with the UK and should actively seek no deal at the end of the transition period this year, as the EU may not back the Prime Minister if things go wrong if the EU does not get the deal it wants at the end of the talks. This comes as the government revealed the UK is prepared to walk away from trade talks with the bloc as early as June if the talks reach a stalemate. He posted on Twitter: "If a deal is reached, the PM will have to sell it. He'll be very good at doing that but he'll have ownership of it. He will be blamed if things go wrong (and for lots of people, it will). If there's no deal, the consequences can be blamed on the intransigent EU."
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1249056/brexit-lates ... avid-gauke

Maybe someone should tell this MP we have left the EU so the PM owns it all and one of the political consequences of Brexit is that you cannot conduct politics the same way it has been done for 46 years i.e. if we mess it up blame the EU.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Ok it seems we may now be able to answer the original question.

First to take stock of Brexit.

1. There are no defined immediate benefits of Brexit. Except for some undefinable idea of a better, brighter future something akin to Dorothy dancing down the yellow brick road.
2. The financial effect on the EU is negligible. The 'Britain sized hole' in EU income is nearly matched by the 'British sized hole' in EU payments.
3. The UK has no more control over it's borders than before Brexit. The new immigration laws proposed now could have been passed while the UK was a member of the EU. It was only the incompetence of successive UK governments not introducing such legislation over the last 46 years which led to this idea. Leaving the EU does not make the UK government any more competent.
4. Sovereignty has been gained by Britain but in practical terms no extra power has been gained. The change is that the UK government can now decide unilaterally to pay or not to pay farmers and fishermen's subsidies and some other small grants etc. Of course not paying the subsidies means all that money can be spent by the UK government on such things as HS2.
5. The trading position of the UK in the world has been weakened considerably and all trade agreements have to be renegotiated. The promise of a more competitive and deregulated UK or a more flexible UK have no basis in fact now that the EU has made it plain that the hole in their border created by Brexit has to be plugged.

Now the consequences.

UK influence in European politics is now zero, no veto no membership of the European parliament. So no backing from Europe in world affairs.

The UK can longer blame the EU for failures in it's own policies. A simple example of this is the so called 'Tampon Tax' when the poll to have VAT on tampons reduced to zero reached a point where a government response was required the response was that 'we are working hard with Europe to remove this tax'. The truth of course is that the UK could and can reduce this to zero at anytime it wishes there is no involvement by the EU.

The UK now has the Irish border problem to solve again by upholding the Good Friday Agreement but closing the border for trade.

It is only my opinion that the British Identity has taken a large knock as the world has now seen that Britain cannot be trusted to maintain its treaty obligations.

In the light of some new information, in pursuit of a deregulated UK, the UK government has introduced more regulations for the fishermen to comply with. It may just be my understanding of deregulation, I thought it meant the removal of regulations, or it could be the precursor to the removal of the fishermen's subsidies in a few years.

The UK government it seems is to pass a human rights bill rejecting European human rights and therefore bypassing the ECHR.

Sounds good but being just a little pessimistic it also means that the UK government can at any time amend that bill, without being challenged, so that UK citizens have no human rights, they will probably sneak that in in a few years time when they think no one is watching.
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