Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Somerset »

Point 2 in the above post is factually wrong - for every pound the UK paid in it got about 67p back. This leaves a hole.

As for the rest of it. May be right, may be wrong. But it is all put forward with the usual remainer certainty - the same certainty that within a year of voting to leave (not leaving) unemployment would rise by up to 500,000: it fell.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by kuikka »

Not challenging any claims, as I don't have any facts. In my opinion unemployment rate is not necessarily giving a correct picture, as Brexit is likely to influence changes in both directions at the same time. Brexit has likely caused number of EU citizens to reside to leave UK. That reduces unemployment rate (either they leave a vacancy behind them that needs to be filled or they are no longer unemployed in UK). More correct picture is received by observing how many jobs there are.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by gavin-h »

collectordave wrote:Sounds good but being just a little pessimistic it also means that the UK government can at any time amend that bill, without being challenged, so that UK citizens have no human rights, they will probably sneak that in in a few years time when they think no one is watching.
Why do you think the UK Government will "probably" (whether sneakily or otherwise) reduce our human rights to zero?

Isn't it just as likely that they will stay as they are, or be better that those rights "enjoyed" by the EU citizens?

Seems like just another right-on left-liberal whispering campaign to me.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by norvic »

collectordave wrote:Ok it seems we may now be able to answer the original question.

First to take stock of Brexit.

1. There are no defined immediate benefits of Brexit. Except for some undefinable idea of a better, brighter future something akin to Dorothy dancing down the yellow brick road.
2. The financial effect on the EU is negligible. The 'Britain sized hole' in EU income is nearly matched by the 'British sized hole' in EU payments.
3. The UK has no more control over it's borders than before Brexit. The new immigration laws proposed now could have been passed while the UK was a member of the EU. It was only the incompetence of successive UK governments not introducing such legislation over the last 46 years which led to this idea. Leaving the EU does not make the UK government any more competent.
4. Sovereignty has been gained by Britain but in practical terms no extra power has been gained. The change is that the UK government can now decide unilaterally to pay or not to pay farmers and fishermen's subsidies and some other small grants etc. Of course not paying the subsidies means all that money can be spent by the UK government on such things as HS2.
5. The trading position of the UK in the world has been weakened considerably and all trade agreements have to be renegotiated. The promise of a more competitive and deregulated UK or a more flexible UK have no basis in fact now that the EU has made it plain that the hole in their border created by Brexit has to be plugged.

Now the consequences.

UK influence in European politics is now zero, no veto no membership of the European parliament. So no backing from Europe in world affairs.

The UK can longer blame the EU for failures in it's own policies. A simple example of this is the so called 'Tampon Tax' when the poll to have VAT on tampons reduced to zero reached a point where a government response was required the response was that 'we are working hard with Europe to remove this tax'. The truth of course is that the UK could and can reduce this to zero at anytime it wishes there is no involvement by the EU.

The UK now has the Irish border problem to solve again by upholding the Good Friday Agreement but closing the border for trade.

It is only my opinion that the British Identity has taken a large knock as the world has now seen that Britain cannot be trusted to maintain its treaty obligations.

In the light of some new information, in pursuit of a deregulated UK, the UK government has introduced more regulations for the fishermen to comply with. It may just be my understanding of deregulation, I thought it meant the removal of regulations, or it could be the precursor to the removal of the fishermen's subsidies in a few years.

The UK government it seems is to pass a human rights bill rejecting European human rights and therefore bypassing the ECHR.

Sounds good but being just a little pessimistic it also means that the UK government can at any time amend that bill, without being challenged, so that UK citizens have no human rights, they will probably sneak that in in a few years time when they think no one is watching.
{Bringing the lengthy post over to the new page}
I agree with much of this, apart from the last two paragraphs, which betray a twisted view.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by faro »

norvic wrote:
collectordave wrote:The UK government it seems is to pass a human rights bill rejecting European human rights and therefore bypassing the ECHR.

Sounds good but being just a little pessimistic it also means that the UK government can at any time amend that bill, without being challenged, so that UK citizens have no human rights, they will probably sneak that in in a few years time when they think no one is watching.
{Bringing the lengthy post over to the new page}
I agree with much of this, apart from the last two paragraphs, which betray a twisted view.
Didn't you know there were no human rights in the UK before the Council of Europe? ;)

The "European human rights" in question have nothing to do with the EU, of course, and aside from the UK other countries such as Switzerland, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Denmark have not ratified all the Protocols.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

What has happened is Cill Dara has morphed and is now living under a new name in Portugal.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Somerset wrote:Point 2 in the above post is factually wrong - for every pound the UK paid in it got about 67p back. This leaves a hole.

As for the rest of it. May be right, may be wrong. But it is all put forward with the usual remainer certainty - the same certainty that within a year of voting to leave (not leaving) unemployment would rise by up to 500,000: it fell.
Paragraph 1 is not factual.

After 46 years in the EU there has been a time when the UK received more from the EU than it paid in and there have been times when the UK received less or more than 67p back for each pound.

A hole probably but a variable sized hole certainly.

Paragraph 2 May be right, may be wrong, can you please explain 'usual remainer certainty' I have not heard of that before, and how is it related to the same certainty that predicted the rise in unemployment?

Then I can see whether it has all been put forward with that certainty or not as the case maybe.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

gavin-h wrote:
collectordave wrote:Sounds good but being just a little pessimistic it also means that the UK government can at any time amend that bill, without being challenged, so that UK citizens have no human rights, they will probably sneak that in in a few years time when they think no one is watching.
Why do you think the UK Government will "probably" (whether sneakily or otherwise) reduce our human rights to zero?

Mainly because our human rights were zero before joining the EU. That being my pessimistic view.

Isn't it just as likely that they will stay as they are, or be better that those rights "enjoyed" by the EU citizens?

Maybe. I could take an optimistic view 'at last the UK Government is going to enshrine our human rights in UK law and grant us more rights than any other country'. With history driving my choice I think I will stick with the pessimistic view.

Seems like just another right-on left-liberal whispering campaign to me.

Can you please explain 'right-on left-liberal whispering campaign' to me it sounds really bad.

If it helps to reassure you I am not running a campaign so it probably is not what you assume.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Ubobo.R.O. wrote:What has happened is Cill Dara has morphed and is now living under a new name in Portugal.
Sorry you're statement is entirely incorrect.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by norvic »

collectordave wrote:
Ubobo.R.O. wrote:What has happened is Cill Dara has morphed and is now living under a new name in Portugal.
Sorry you're statement is entirely incorrect.
Even if your grammar is not. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by emason »

A few comments out of many that could have been made.
collectordave wrote:Each country has always had the ability to control immigration nothing has changed for the UK post Brexit except the EU can no longer be blamed for immigrants who are given benefits by the UK.

The UK government has always had the right to create independent legislation on immigration, residence and visitation.
Wrong!
Every citizen of every EU state has the absolute right to travel to, work in, and reside in any other EU state of their choice and there is nothing any state can do about it. It was David Cameron's failure to persuade the EU to amend this that precipitated the Brexit referendum.
collectordave wrote:3. The UK has no more control over it's borders than before Brexit. The new immigration laws proposed now could have been passed while the UK was a member of the EU.
The proposed new laws will apply to all nationalities. Before Brexit they could not apply to EU citizens.
collectordave wrote:After 46 years in the EU there has been a time when the UK received more from the EU than it paid in and there have been times when the UK received less or more than 67p back for each pound.
Wrong again!
Throughout our years of membership since 1973, only the UK and Germany have consistently been net contributors to the EU’s finances.
collectordave wrote:According to one source the UK paid €8.93 billion into the EU in 2018 and received back in subsidies etc €8.52 billion.
This leaves a net EU budget hole of 410 million euros per year.The financial effect on the EU is negligible. The 'Britain sized hole' in EU income is nearly matched by the 'British sized hole' in EU payments.
Wrong again!
In 2018 the UK made an estimated gross contribution (after the rebate) of £13.2 billion. The UK received £4.3 billion of public sector receipts from the EU, so the UK's net public sector contribution to the EU was an estimated £8.9 billion.
collectordave wrote:It would be interesting to see how the tabloid calculated the figure of the €75 billion hole in the EU budget.
The EU budgets for a seven year period. So: £8.9 billion x 7 = £62.3 billion or about €70+ billion.
collectordave wrote:Mainly because our human rights were zero before joining the EU. That being my pessimistic view.
So the fact that the UK is a founding member of the Council of Europe and signatory to its European Convention on Human Rights in 1950, 43 years before the EU came into existence, means nothing to you?
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by norvic »

Every citizen of every EU state has the absolute right to travel to, work in, and reside in any other EU state of their choice and there is nothing any state can do about it. It was David Cameron's failure to persuade the EU to amend this that precipitated the Brexit referendum.
Whilst I am willing to concede that the above might be true, the UK also had the ability to restrict social security benefits even to EU citizens, and that was not done.

Further I believe that rather than "Every citizen of every EU state " it is "every EU citizen" which we still are until somebody revokes it.

However, this is only my recollection. I think it would be best on all assertions (including my own) if a proper citation was given, ie an official source either on https://www.gov.uk/ or https://europa.eu/european-union/index_en (unfortunately I don't have time to do that now.).
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Freedom of movement

As EU citizens, all nationals of the Member States of the European Union have the right to move freely within the European Union and to enter and reside in any EU Member State.
This right to freedom of movement is guaranteed by Article 21 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU (TFEU). However, the right of EU citizens to freedom of movement is not unconditional; it may be exercised under the conditions and restrictions of European Community law.

Directive 2004/38/EC further specifies the right to freedom of movement, which in Germany is implemented through the Act on the General Freedom of Movement for EU Citizens.

https://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/topics/migration/law-on-foreigner ... -node.html

Directive 2004/38/EC
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32004L0038

Above are the first two paragraphs of the citation.

Note in the second paragraph 'which in Germany' etc.

After this you can read

'Entry and residence of EU citizens'

This is how Germany has implemented freedom of Movement in Germany for EU citizens by an act of their parliament. How it is implemented is left to each member state to decide.

I have personal experience of freedom of movement in Portugal, another member state. Where similar Portuguese law applies.

It is best envisaged as three states.

1. Tourist.

Just visiting the country. You can be deported back to your country of origin at any time for committing a criminal offence or for not having health insurance or for any attempt to claim benefits.

After deportation you have no rights to any property purchased in Portugal.

Your UK/EU driving licence can be used to freely drive your own or a hired car subject to UK law.

2. Resident.

This is granted after you apply for a residency certificate initially valid for five years.

At this stage you must show that you will not be a burden on the state by having sufficient resources and health insurance.

For a UK citizen the EHIC is enough the cover for other member states is different so some immigrants also have to have extra health insurance.

To complete residency you must register with a Family doctor (GP) and be given a patient number.

This does not confer any rights to claim benefits from the Portuguese state. You do have the right if ordered to leave the country to close down your affairs e.g. sell property etc.

You also have to remember your driving licence is subject to UK law. So within 28 days of gaining residency you must exchange your UK licence for a Portuguese one. This is facilitated by the the IMTT in Portugal the equivalent of the DVLA in the UK. Basically a change of address in the UK.

After the initial five years you can either renew the five year residency or you can apply for 'Permanent residency' (only valid 10 years) which if granted does confer some access to social support but not unemployment benefits.

3. Citizenship.

To gain citizenship where you are then entitled to all state benefits etc. is subject to a citizenship test which includes speaking Portuguese. A previous period of residency helps quite a lot here.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

Reading and listening to more of this reminded me of a Monty Python sketch.

While looking for this on the net I came across this.

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

An interesting read for someone that is neither a Bremainer nor a Bleaver.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

emason wrote:
collectordave wrote:Each country has always had the ability to control immigration nothing has changed for the UK post Brexit except the EU can no longer be blamed for immigrants who are given benefits by the UK.

The UK government has always had the right to create independent legislation on immigration, residence and visitation.
Wrong!
Every citizen of every EU state has the absolute right to travel to, work in, and reside in any other EU state of their choice and there is nothing any state can do about it. It was David Cameron's failure to persuade the EU to amend this that precipitated the Brexit referendum.
Wrong!

It is not an absolute right but a qualified right!

Please check the citations in my previous post.

The EU law actually states it is for each state to control residency according to their own traditions to ensure that migrants are not a burden on the state social mechanisms!

It appears to me that there is confusion about citizenship and residency.

The new laws proposed by Ms Patel are actually quite similar to citizenship laws passed in other EU states. Although the point is mute now they do not address the residency rights of EU citizens.

They will apply to all nationalities, but as mentioned earlier expecting a Polish cabbage picker to have a PHD and the ability to pass an english test before being allowed to pick cabbages seems a little over the top and will create a whole host of problems for farmers looking to employ migrant labour to pick cabbages, never mind the poor farmer having to pay a €30,000 salary to each cabbage picker employed.

May just lead to a rise in the price of cabbages.

A simpler method would have been the UK passing laws covering the qualified right of residence in the same way that other European states have done, which is what they failed to do.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

emason wrote:
collectordave wrote:After 46 years in the EU there has been a time when the UK received more from the EU than it paid in and there have been times when the UK received less or more than 67p back for each pound.
Wrong again!
Throughout our years of membership since 1973, only the UK and Germany have consistently been net contributors to the EU’s finances.
Wrong!

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

If you find the net payment graph you will see that in 1975 the black line went below the horizontal axis this is the time when the UK received more from the EU than it paid in. Remember I said 'there has been a time'.

You can also see that the black line wriggles up and down over the years this is where we received more or less back from the EU not always 67p in each pound.

From 1976 the UK has been a net contributor to the Eu budget not 1973 as for Germany and other states I have no idea.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

What with Brexit costing more than all contributions paid so far I just heard that Boris now wants a tunnel and not a bridge!

My immediate and kindly thought was that he now knows what a money PIT really is all that money on a bridge would only get blown away by the wind.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-scotland- ... 82971.html

Good to know the old country is in safe hands.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by norvic »

collectordave wrote:
emason wrote:
collectordave wrote:Each country has always had the ability to control immigration nothing has changed for the UK post Brexit except the EU can no longer be blamed for immigrants who are given benefits by the UK.

The UK government has always had the right to create independent legislation on immigration, residence and visitation.
Wrong!
Every citizen of every EU state has the absolute right to travel to, work in, and reside in any other EU state of their choice and there is nothing any state can do about it. It was David Cameron's failure to persuade the EU to amend this that precipitated the Brexit referendum.
Wrong!

It is not an absolute right but a qualified right!

Please check the citations in my previous post.

The EU law actually states it is for each state to control residency according to their own traditions to ensure that migrants are not a burden on the state social mechanisms!

It appears to me that there is confusion about citizenship and residency.

The new laws proposed by Ms Patel are actually quite similar to citizenship laws passed in other EU states. Although the point is mute now they do not address the residency rights of EU citizens.

They will apply to all nationalities, but as mentioned earlier expecting a Polish cabbage picker to have a PHD and the ability to pass an english test before being allowed to pick cabbages seems a little over the top and will create a whole host of problems for farmers looking to employ migrant labour to pick cabbages, never mind the poor farmer having to pay a €30,000 salary to each cabbage picker employed.

May just lead to a rise in the price of cabbages.

A simpler method would have been the UK passing laws covering the qualified right of residence in the same way that other European states have done, which is what they failed to do.
If the point was really mute we wouldn't still be discussing it at length. Moot is the word.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by emason »

colectordave wrote:The UK can longer blame the EU for failures in it's own policies. A simple example of this is the so called 'Tampon Tax' when the poll to have VAT on tampons reduced to zero reached a point where a government response was required the response was that 'we are working hard with Europe to remove this tax'. The truth of course is that the UK could and can reduce this to zero at anytime it wishes there is no involvement by the EU.
Wrong again!
It seems you wouldn't know the truth if it hit you between the eyes.
The controversial “tampon tax” will be scrapped in next week’s Budget, as Britain breaks free from EU rules. Brussels laws have prevented the Treasury from reducing the VAT rate on sanitary products below five per cent, meaning tampons and pads are treated as luxury items and not essentials. But the Chancellor Rishi Sunak plans to scrap the tax on January 1 next year, the first day the bloc’s rules no longer apply to the UK.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/06/tampon-tax-s ... -eu-rules/
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

emason wrote:
The controversial “tampon tax” will be scrapped in next week’s Budget, as Britain breaks free from EU rules. Brussels laws have prevented the Treasury from reducing the VAT rate on sanitary products below five per cent, meaning tampons and pads are treated as luxury items and not essentials. But the Chancellor Rishi Sunak plans to scrap the tax on January 1 next year, the first day the bloc’s rules no longer apply to the UK.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/06/tampon-tax-s ... -eu-rules/

Tampons and sanitary towels are not subject to VAT in Ireland which has a zero rate treatment on women's sanitary products. The Irish rate was implemented before EU legislation imposed reduced VAT rates on certain goods and services.


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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by norvic »

I think sanitary products were standard rated. When complaints of unfair treatment were made this was reduced to the lower rate by Gordon Brown. Both a standard rate and a lower rate are permitted under CM & EU rules, remember, VAT was introduced in we joined Europe in 1973.

The UK also has some zero-rated goods, and some goods and services are exempt. Wikipedia has the categories and their contents here > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax_in_the_United_Kingdom#Rates

EU law only requires that the standard VAT rate must be at least 15% and the reduced rate at least 5%.

I believe that the zero-rating in the UK was applied to those goods which were not subject to purchase tax. I was also under the impression that (in compliance with the previous paragraph) no additions could be made to the list of items to which zero-rating applies under EU rules. Once we have left, that doesn't apply which is why next January is the date chosen, ie at the end of the transition period.

"meaning tampons and pads are treated as luxury items and not essentials" - is a nonsense. We don;t have a rate for luxury items. Logically they might have been treated as "Health Services" or "Medical treatment & care" and this have been exempt, but that would have brought other complications and implications because their use is not medical.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by collectordave »

At last we are making some progress.

We now have a definate and incontrovertible benefit of Brexit!

Cheaper tampons a whole year before the rest of the EU.

I do find it a little extreme leaving the EU just to get cheaper tampons quicker especially as I personally get no benefit from this.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Er... what is this "Brexit" again? :roll:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by Cill Dara »

OldDuffer1 wrote:Er... what is this "Brexit" again? :roll:
The sequence..........

1 - Covid 19
2 - Recession or Depression.
3 - Get Brexit done - 31 December.

Best of British luck. :wink:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2

Post by gavin-h »

In February, Global Administrator wrote:Well Nissan in Sunderland will pull up stumps, and move to Europe, losing 50,000 UK jobs, as all British made cars to EU will now have punitive tariffs on them, making them price uncompetitive, so Britain will no longer have a meaningful car export market, so those theoretical green tail light details are all moot. :)

Exporting all that ugly Seaweed and rocks and boulders from the British "beaches" is however, a lucrative potential market. :lol: :lol: :lol:
TODAY:
Nissan backs UK plant but protests erupt in Spain

Nissan's UK factory in Sunderland will stay open as the Japanese carmaker carries out a global restructuring amid the coronavirus pandemic.

The carmaker also announced it will close its factory in Barcelona with the loss of about 2,800 jobs, prompting protests at the Spanish plant.

Hundreds of workers gathered as burning tyres blockaded the site which Nissan said would close from December.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52829348

Some good news for UK industry against the backdrop of Covid. :idea:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by deltic1575 »

3 days later

"The UK's largest car manufacturing plant is "unsustainable" if the UK leaves the European Union without a trade deal, owner Nissan says.

The Japanese company's global chief operating head told the BBC people had to understand the EU was the Sunderland factory's biggest customer.

Ashwani Gupta said that Nissan's commitment could not be maintained if there was not tariff-free EU access."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Waffle »

Cill Dara is drawing a VERY long bow. How does he imagine, in even his fertile imagination, that Brexit has, as its CONSEQENCE, Covid 19? The mind boggles.Is this just another manifestation of his anti-British diatribes?
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by honza »

deltic1575 wrote:
03 Jun 2020 17:48
3 days later

"The UK's largest car manufacturing plant is "unsustainable" if the UK leaves the European Union without a trade deal, owner Nissan says.

The Japanese company's global chief operating head told the BBC people had to understand the EU was the Sunderland factory's biggest customer.

Ashwani Gupta said that Nissan's commitment could not be maintained if there was not tariff-free EU access."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528
Ahoj deltic1575!

I agree. Gavin's optimism and glee have proved premature. 70% of Nissan's output goes to the EU. If there is a 'no deal' Brexit, as our new masters in Washington wish, there will be a 10% tariff imposed automatically on these cars under WTO rules.

An unintended consequence of Brexit has meant that the UK has the most inexperienced set of politicians in charge of the country when it is faced by the worst pandemic for a hundred years. For ideological reasons they could not co-operate with the EU in the procurement of scarce protective equipment or impose a timely lockdown to limit the spread of the disease.

The UK now has the highest death rate for Covid-19 in the whole of Europe. Is this an achievement only possible after taking back control?

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Global Administrator »

honza wrote:
03 Jun 2020 20:36

I agree. Gavin's optimism and glee have proved premature. 70% of Nissan's output goes to the EU. If there is a 'no deal' Brexit, as our new masters in Washington wish, there will be a 10% tariff imposed automatically on these cars under WTO rules.
Dream World. He has been reading his Biggles Own party propaganda too often!

The CEO of Nissan (for anyone who understands how these sleazes work) is clearly asking for mega Billions of Gavin's Taxes to bail him out, or he is out of Dallas to some low wage Europe facility.

I posted exactly that months back but folks here have short memories. :idea: :idea: :idea:

Mr Gupta said: "You know we are the number one carmaker in the UK and we want to continue. We are committed. Having said that, if we are not getting the current tariffs, it's not our intention but the business will not be sustainable. That's what everybody has to understand."

He also said that any plans for its strategic partner and 43%-shareholder Renault to take up spare capacity at Sunderland would be a matter for the French carmaker. (Hmmm - Renault just cut 15,000 jobs in major restructuring - ya really THINK they will bail out their 100 year old old arch Enemy BRITAIN??!) The French government has a 15% stake in Renault.

This is not the first time that Nissan has pleaded with UK and EU negotiators to ensure that the 70% of cars manufactured at Sunderland which are sold in the EU can avoid tariffs of 10% under World Trade Organisation rules - the legal default position if a deal is not struck.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Brit-Col »

Global Administrator wrote:
04 Jun 2020 00:27
The CEO of Nissan (for anyone who understands how these sleazes work)
Just curious, why is that sleazy? CEOs have a responsibility to the shareholders to deliver the best possible return on investment (within legal and ethical boundaries).

And as someone once said, money has no qualms; it will always flow to where it can achieve the highest returns.

BC

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by gavin-h »

Global Administrator wrote:
04 Jun 2020 00:27
honza wrote:
03 Jun 2020 20:36

I agree. Gavin's optimism and glee have proved premature. 70% of Nissan's output goes to the EU. If there is a 'no deal' Brexit, as our new masters in Washington wish, there will be a 10% tariff imposed automatically on these cars under WTO rules.
Dream World. He has been reading his Biggles Own party propaganda too often!

The CEO of Nissan (for anyone who understands how these sleazes work) is clearly asking for mega Billions of Gavin's Taxes to bail him out, or he is out of Dallas to some low wage Europe facility.
Well, let’s stick to the FACTS, shall we.

The Barcelona plant WILL close.

The Chief Exec has warned that the UK plant is under threat IF trade negotiations don’t go the way he would like.

Anything else is speculation, wishful thinking, froth and nonsense and no more than spluttering into your cappuccino. :idea: :idea: :idea:

I’m happy to wait and see how those negotiations conclude, cautiously optimistic that a deal will be done, as was the case with the previous negotiations in case anyone had forgotten. :ugeek:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by deltic1575 »

A deal that saw the Ulster Unionists being thrown under the bus and a border imposed between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK despite assurances from Boris Johnson that this would not happen. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52654166

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

A British view of Brexit talks - things are still on track

The British negotiators take the view that a deal is good to have, and worth working very hard for.

But if it fails to materialise, then they can get by without one. "It’s perfectly manageable, even though it’s not our first choice", as the senior negotiating source put it.

The British source stressed that the UK side does want a deal, one that results in zero tariff, zero quota trade as it would be better for both sides. But not getting an agreement "is not the end of the world".

They point out that Australia trades with the EU but doesn't have a formal trade agreement.


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/0605/1145768-brexit-the-view-from-britain/

Translation..........

Perfectly manageable = we'll have to figure out something eventually, maybe.

Australia trades with the EU = Australia Nissan plant exports 70% of output to EU and pays tariffs, right?

Last but not least, no Border in the Irish Sea..........correct, it's in Belfast and Larne Boris. :mrgreen:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by gavin-h »

Cill Dara wrote:
06 Jun 2020 21:29
A British view of Brexit talks - things are still on track

The British negotiators take the view that a deal is good to have, and worth working very hard for.

But if it fails to materialise, then they can get by without one. "It’s perfectly manageable, even though it’s not our first choice", as the senior negotiating source put it.

The British source stressed that the UK side does want a deal, one that results in zero tariff, zero quota trade as it would be better for both sides. But not getting an agreement "is not the end of the world".

It's called "negotiating". That's about getting the best deal you can, keeping a poker face and not giving your fallback position away.

If that's difficult to understand, please ask me to help next time you want to buy a new car - I can save you thousands. ;)

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

gavin-h wrote:
06 Jun 2020 23:21

It's called "negotiating". That's about getting the best deal you can, keeping a poker face and not giving your fallback position away.
UK exports to EU - 45% of total.

EU exports to UK - 8% of total.



Nothing like having a strong hand in a game of strip poker, Boris. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

British firms do not have the resilience to cope with a no-deal Brexit after the battering of the coronavirus crisis, according to the outgoing boss of industry body the CBI.

Carolyn Fairbairn said a CBI member had likened a no-deal to "setting the shed on fire" while the house was in flames.


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53002961

Coronavirus: UK economy could be among worst hit of leading nations, says OECD

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52991913

EU cannot allow 'cherry picking' by Britain in Brexit negotiations - Barnier

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/0610/1146637-barnier-brexit/


Covid 19 Recession + No Deal Brexit = Boris "Titanic Brexit".......that's "F... Business" Boris. :shock:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

Boris.jpg

Caption this............. 8-)

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Somerset »

How not to do a press up

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

Stand-up Comic reviews his latest approval ratings.

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by collectordave »

Demonstration of how to bang your head when no brick walls are available?
get to World Collector here
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

I've just had a meeting with Cill Dara.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Waffle »

Is anyone else fed up to the back teeth as it is now historical fact and irreversible, whatever we may believe. What will be will be and the sooner we accept that, the better. Boris is running the show, on his head be it.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

Fish.jpg

Let them eat, their own, fish. :lol:

The EU has lost interest in rescuing the Sasanachs from their own self inflicted stupidity. :roll:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Caption

"The EU has been kippered!"

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

OldDuffer1 wrote:
27 Jul 2020 05:10
Caption

"The EU has been kippered!"

Kipper rules Boris Johnson blamed on EU are actually British, says Brussels
Europe’s ‘pointless’ regulations on food are in fact UK rules, commission tells MP.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/18/boris-johns ... ssels-says


Carry on Boris, you auld Cod. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by collectordave »

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by norvic »

Waffle wrote:
26 Jul 2020 20:25
Is anyone else fed up to the back teeth as it is now historical fact and irreversible, whatever we may believe. What will be will be and the sooner we accept that, the better. Boris is running the show, on his head be it.
Doesn't affect you in Australia anything like it affects us in Norfolk.
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by norvic »

Ubobo.R.O. wrote:
26 Jul 2020 19:08
I've just had a meeting with Cill Dara.
WINNER!!! :lol:
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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

norvic wrote:
27 Jul 2020 19:05
Ubobo.R.O. wrote:
26 Jul 2020 19:08
I've just had a meeting with Cill Dara.
WINNER!!! :lol:

Gee whiz, thank's a Billion. 8-)

I'd like to thank my agent, my gg granfather, High King Brian Boru, Michael Collins, uncle Tom Cobley et al......
and not forgetting the 52%, at least, of Sasanachs below average intelligence, even for Sasanachs,
many stuck in Spain EU due to Boris having a near death experience. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Political Consequences of Britain's BREXIT Referendum, 2016

Post by Cill Dara »

Unfortunately for Boris Johnson, much of Europe has moved on from Brexit

......And those hardline Brexiteers who have been advising Johnson to threaten walking away might find that it's actually Brussels who is really prepared quietly to put the whole thing to sleep.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/uk/eu-brexit-intl-gbr/index.html


The Un-united Kingdom has gone off the radar, as far as the EU is concerned.
The EU will not agree to a trade deal, unless Boris capitulates.

Part of the EU €2 Trillion (yes Trillion) Budget agreed last week includes a €5 Billion Brexit mitigation fund.
It also allows for the issuing of EU Soverign Bonds and the mutualisation of debt, a groundbreaking advance.

The European Banking Authority today warned British Banks that there is no mechanism for direct EU access in deposits or loans from January, unless they complete compliance with EU requirements.

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