Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

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a6zsn
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Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by a6zsn »

I am very much interested to buy official FDC or commercial covers from Trucial States. Also, looking for the following issues from Trucial States:

MICHEL Numbers:-

AJMAN:
1545 - 1574 (Perf & Imperf)
1575 - 1604 (Perf & Imperf)
1605 - 1634 (Perf & Imperf, & se-tenant)
1635 - 1668 (Perf & Imperf)
2257 - 2312 (Perf & Imperf, & se-tenant)
2313 - 2368 (Perf & Imperf, & se-tenant)

UMM AL QIWAIN:
528 - 561 (Perf & Imperf)
697 - 726 (Perf & Imperf)
727 - 761 (Perf & Imperf)

Thank You

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by a6zsn »

I am still looking for these! There are many other Trucial States issues that I am looking for!

Maybe this is a message that Ajman & other Trucial States, produced some rare stamps!

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by muruk »

a6zsn wrote:Maybe this is a message that Ajman & other Trucial States, produced some rare stamps!
I hope you are joking intentionally. :?

Stanley Gibbons lists about 150 stamps for Ajman, of the rest it states:
From June 1967 very many stamp issues were made by a succession of agencies which had been awarded contracts by the ruler, sometimes 2 agencies operating at the same time. Several contradictory statements were made as to the validity of some of these issues which appeared 1967-72 and for this reason they are only listed in abbreviated form.
Other Sand Dune countries have similar statements.

Because they are produced only to sell to collectors, and not for real postage, most country collectors don't take them seriously and don't collect them. That will be the reason you are not getting a response. :(

There are, however, some nice cinderellas for topical collectors. :D
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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by a6zsn »

Hi muruk,
muruk wrote:I hope you are joking intentionally. :?
No, I am not joking :| !
muruk wrote:Stanley Gibbons lists about 150 stamps for Ajman, of the rest it states:
From June 1967 very many stamp issues were made by a succession of agencies which had been awarded contracts by the ruler, sometimes 2 agencies operating at the same time. Several contradictory statements were made as to the validity of some of these issues which appeared 1967-72 and for this reason they are only listed in abbreviated form.
Other Sand Dune countries have similar statements.
Stanley Gibbons will not change the fact, which the wanted items are – in my opinion – rare :) !

Yes, I understand that other Emirates (Trucial States) have similar statements in SG but I also have the same answer. They (the other Emirates) include many rare postage stamps, and many more common, and few unofficial (done after terminated the contract with the old agency).
muruk wrote:Because they are produced only to sell to collectors, and not for real postage, most country collectors don't take them seriously and don't collect them. That will be the reason you are not getting a response. :(

There are, however, some nice cinderellas for topical collectors. :D
I don’t think so! My eyes always open in eBay, delcampe, and many other online outlets!

Many thanks for your message!

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by muruk »

This may be a subject about which we need more education than we are getting from Stanley Gibbons.
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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by Jack »

a6zsn knows well what he is talking about; he is an expert in this area. I know who he is and we correspond.

Yes, many of the appendix listed stamp have little value however some are worth serious money. Getting them on commercial mail is also a [u]very[/u] expensive challenge. They were not produced 'only' to sell to collectors; there is commercial mail around (often from the British Bank of the Middle east - BBME).

Even getting a complete set of FDCs is an elusive and expensive challenge.

The UAE and Arabian Gulf postal scene is well organised, growing and getting a solid body of literature behind it (some by me). And when a stamp moves from Appendix listed to main catalogue it becomes an interesting and expensive exercise. Another member here runs this site http://www.ohmygosh.on.ca/stamps/dubai/article.htm which is a magnificent listing of all known literature relating to Arabian Gulf philately and postal history (and Aden / Yemen).

I commend Gibbons Stamp Monthly July 2011 'Rarties of the Emirates' by Baron Von Uexkull discussing this topic. The RAK stamp which is one of the stamps mentioned I see at a German auction house for a 1000 Euros for a block of 4 and I think Gary Watson has some of the Sharjah mentioned in his current sale. Many collectors certainly take the 'sand dunes' very seriously. I think Rod Perry has an article on them a few years ago and he also was stunned by the prices; people need to move on from a blanket sand dunes are junk approach.

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by muruk »

Thanks, Jack, that's much more enlightening than the usual gossip.

I would certainly expect Stanley Gibbons to move stamps to the main list once they have been detected postally used.
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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by aethelwulf »

There were people living in the Trucial States of course during the 'silly season' of wallpaper output. The states were sleepy little places, and the Emirs weren't lounging around in gilded palaces and being whisked in private jets to Monte Carlo. There was some pearl cultivation, and a few other cottage industries.

Hence when these stamp agents came knocking, and offered cold hard cash, the rulers were receptive. It was a bit of a Faustian deal, signing away control of stamp production. IGPC probably considers this a template for their own business model though to exploit Guyana, St. Vincent, Sierra Leone and all the rest.

Certainly there is postal history out there; a lot of what I see though is sent by the philatelic agency. The oil industry so radically transformed the whole Middle East region, bringing improvements but also negativities.

Macau is in a similar state. They sat there for literally centuries as a sleepy Portuguese colony. When the government opened up the gambling market and allowed the Vegas casinos in, the economy exploded.

However, the Middle East has a much bigger population behind it, and collectors who build regional collections. So if you have a Fujeira cover, collectors residing in any of the UAE states might take it, or even someone in a neighbouring country. Would Aussie States collectors go for only the stamps of their own state and ignore the rest? As for Macau, the Chinese haven't developed much interest in the material, so prices are only so-so.

Trucial States FDCs...that sounds like a rare beast to find...might have better luck finding a striped polar bear. :lol:
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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by Jack »

Of course not all pre-UAE independent Emirates indulged; Abu Dhabi, for example, did not. It is only some of the Emirates (and Yemen in its various forms) who over issued. As well, Bahrain, Kuwait, KSA and Qatar were never 'over issuers'.

Muscat / Oman is different (State of Oman is an awkward issue; these were not issued by the Muscat Govt and - at least the early ones - had some postal validity for a variety of extremely complex political and historical reasons but in the later form were pointless irrelevancies)

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by a6zsn »

As soon as this first issue of the Journal of Arabian Philately reaches certain hands it probably will be tossed aside as an attempt to whitewash the ‘black blots’. It is not. We who are involved in the production of this publication are well aware of the dubious stamp-issuing policies followed by some of the Arabian states, and we do not intend to gloss over them. On the other hand, we also know that excesses tend to develop from any endeavour to repress interest and we refuse to be party to such action. The critics of Stampdom’s current new issue flood which of course includes most Arabian counties have launched a three front attack on postal administrations that do not measure up to their arbitrary standards.

First, they ridicule them in the philatelic press by resorting to red-flag words and yellow journalism techniques. How often have you seen the ‘sand dune states’ belittled for releasing ‘packages’ of ‘gaudy wallpaper’, ‘labels’ and ‘so-called souvenir sheets’, ‘garbage’, produced ‘only to gouge unwary stamp collectors’? Frankly, we are nauseated by such low-grade language, the more so when it comes from prestigious philatelic societies and generally respected professional journalists.

Second, the critics encourage collectors to boycott stamps issued by a long list of countries whom they feel exploit the market. This is nothing new. As far back as 1895 leading collectors and dealers organized the Society for the Suppression of Speculative Stamps and banned, among other issues, the dollar values of the United States Trans-Mississippi set. But most people continued to collect what they pleased, and the boycott eventually collapsed. We predict the same fate for the current campaign.

Third, the self-proclaimed philatelic purists pressure catalog publishers to deny listing to stamps issued by certain countries. Again most Arabian states are involved. They argue that if stamps cannot pass the test of the ‘black blot’ criteria, they do not deserve catalog recognition.

But catalog publisher Jacques Minkus is correct in saying, ‘The only question a cataloguer can legitimately ask about a stamp is whether it has postal validity, will it prepay postage on a letter in or from the country of origin?’.

No doubt the ‘black blot’ programs are based on good motives. Whatever unbiased information they offer collectors as bases for making their own decisions is all to the good. In this regard, we commend the Stamp Trade Standing Committee, jointly sponsored by the British Philatelic Association and the Philatelic Trader’s Society, for its carefully conducted investigations of questionable issues
”. (the JOURNAL OF ARABIAN PHILATELY, No. 1, 1972, Mervin L. Chaplin – the Editor)

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by toschka »

An interesting thread to say the least.

These oft derided issues are 'gold dust' on commercial cover. Its a pity I could not turn back the clock as I lived in that part of the world (mostly Kuwait, Qatar and Shahjah) for many years and I did visit most of the Emirates when the wall paper was being churned out. Most of these agencies did provide token issues to the local Post Offices - they did not need to provide more than that as there was little need for large quantities of stamps. And I did use some of them on my mail - these covers ended up with a dealer in Qatar who has since died and none to my knowledge has since appeared on the market.

The same thing happened in Central Africa - Rwanda and Burundi for example - where these 'wallpaper' issues are like gold dust on commercial cover. Recently whilst in Rwanda I visited the main Post Office in Kigali and they still had stocks of some of the wallpaper issues and I was told there was little use for these stamps as the face value was too low. Some enterprising soul (not me I hasten to add) has been producing manufactured kiloware with this stuff and selling it for some extravagant price per 100 grammes! If anyone is interested I can do the same the next time I am in Kigali!

On Saturday I fly off to Namibia so will have a nose around the main Post office in Windhoek and see what is happening in that part of the world!

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by Jack »

As said, with a6szn, the owner of the literature site mentioned and myself there is serious knowledge about Arabian Gulf material here.

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by domiziano »

Salaam aleikhum a6zsn,

I have some commercial covers that may or may not interest you.
There are about 20 commercial covers in all including Oman, Bahrain, Qatar,
Kuwait and KSA. I can scan the rest if of interest.
Cheers,
Domiziano


Image

Image

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hello a6zsn,

Have you seen:

www.ebay.ca/itm/UMM-AL-QIWAIN-1973-REGD-COVER-GERMANY...1e6a1bf4a5 ?

The seller is surefire248.

I have seen some of the Umm al Qiwain stamps on cover, but not the Ajman.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by selvedge »

I don't understand why everyone is showing commecial covers.

If you read the title it says commerICal covers.

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by a6zsn »

Jack wrote:a6zsn knows well what he is talking about; he is an expert in this area. I know who he is and we correspond.

Yes, many of the appendix listed stamp have little value however some are worth serious money. Getting them on commercial mail is also a very expensive challenge. They were not produced 'only' to sell to collectors; there is commercial mail around (often from the British Bank of the Middle east - BBME).

Even getting a complete set of FDCs is an elusive and expensive challenge.

The UAE and Arabian Gulf postal scene is well organised, growing and getting a solid body of literature behind it (some by me). And when a stamp moves from Appendix listed to main catalogue it becomes an interesting and expensive exercise. Another member here runs this site http://www.ohmygosh.on.ca/stamps/dubai/article.htm which is a magnificent listing of all known literature relating to Arabian Gulf philately and postal history (and Aden / Yemen).

I commend Gibbons Stamp Monthly July 2011 'Rarties of the Emirates' by Baron Von Uexkull discussing this topic. The RAK stamp which is one of the stamps mentioned I see at a German auction house for a 1000 Euros for a block of 4 and I think Gary Watson has some of the Sharjah mentioned in his current sale. Many collectors certainly take the 'sand dunes' very seriously. I think Rod Perry has an article on them a few years ago and he also was stunned by the prices; people need to move on from a blanket sand dunes are junk approach.

Hi Jack,

Thank you for mentioning the ohmygosh. The site was the first ever internet site about stamps & postal history of Trucial States! We are lucky to have this informative site, online in the internet, when there was nothing to find out about the area philately. However, today there are many other sites gives more information about the area stamps & postal history, but still not compared with this great site. Many thanks to the publisher.

Baron Von Uexkull, is a keen philatelist of Trucial States & Arabia, and I know that he building a strong collection of the area.

All the best,
Khalid

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by a6zsn »

aethelwulf wrote:There were people living in the Trucial States of course during the 'silly season' of wallpaper output. The states were sleepy little places, and the Emirs weren't lounging around in gilded palaces and being whisked in private jets to Monte Carlo. There was some pearl cultivation, and a few other cottage industries.

Hence when these stamp agents came knocking, and offered cold hard cash, the rulers were receptive. It was a bit of a Faustian deal, signing away control of stamp production. IGPC probably considers this a template for their own business model though to exploit Guyana, St. Vincent, Sierra Leone and all the rest.

Certainly there is postal history out there; a lot of what I see though is sent by the philatelic agency. The oil industry so radically transformed the whole Middle East region, bringing improvements but also negativities.

Macau is in a similar state. They sat there for literally centuries as a sleepy Portuguese colony. When the government opened up the gambling market and allowed the Vegas casinos in, the economy exploded.

However, the Middle East has a much bigger population behind it, and collectors who build regional collections. So if you have a Fujeira cover, collectors residing in any of the UAE states might take it, or even someone in a neighbouring country. Would Aussie States collectors go for only the stamps of their own state and ignore the rest? As for Macau, the Chinese haven't developed much interest in the material, so prices are only so-so.

Trucial States FDCs...that sounds like a rare beast to find...might have better luck finding a striped polar bear. :lol:
Dear aethelwulf,

Those postal agents came and offered to open post office, issue stamps of this state, and give a lot of money! Who can refuse this offer?

You see more than 90% of the mail sent from these post offices from the philatelic office because the number one reason to open the post offices (in Ajman, Fujeira, & Umm al Qiwain) was the profit from the philatelic section!

Best,
Khalid

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by a6zsn »

toschka wrote:An interesting thread to say the least.

These oft derided issues are 'gold dust' on commercial cover. Its a pity I could not turn back the clock as I lived in that part of the world (mostly Kuwait, Qatar and Shahjah) for many years and I did visit most of the Emirates when the wall paper was being churned out. Most of these agencies did provide token issues to the local Post Offices - they did not need to provide more than that as there was little need for large quantities of stamps. And I did use some of them on my mail - these covers ended up with a dealer in Qatar who has since died and none to my knowledge has since appeared on the market.
Hi toschka,

Thank you! Did you have a chance to get some pictures during your stay in Sharjah?

Thanks,
Khalid

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by a6zsn »

domiziano wrote:Salaam aleikhum a6zsn,

I have some commercial covers that may or may not interest you.
There are about 20 commercial covers in all including Oman, Bahrain, Qatar,
Kuwait and KSA. I can scan the rest if of interest.
Cheers,
Domiziano
Dear Domiziano,

وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

Thank you for the offer. I am highly interested in commerical covers from (Ajman, Fujeirah, & Umm al Qiwain), but I collect also Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Sharjah, & Ras al Khaima.

Best,
Khalid

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by a6zsn »

agondocz wrote:Hello a6zsn,

Have you seen:

www.ebay.ca/itm/UMM-AL-QIWAIN-1973-REGD-COVER-GERMANY...1e6a1bf4a5 ?

The seller is surefire248.

I have seen some of the Umm al Qiwain stamps on cover, but not the Ajman.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Hi AndrewG,

Many thanks for the message & the eBay link. You usually find these philatelic covers with one value of this set, but very rarely you find them on FDC's or in mint condition!

Best wishes,
Khalid

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

The philatelic covers from these former Trucial States help to establish a date of use, which is sometimes difficult to find in the various stamp magazines.

For example these two Fujairah covers:

Image

from the 1972 issue publicizing the 1976 Winter Games, plus a stamp from the 1972 Mosque series, and

Image

from a 1972 Paintings series.

These two covers appear to be postmarked on 24.4.73 which was the day before the cut-off date for the use of stamps from the former Trucial States. Please note that mixed Trucial States and United Arab Emirates stamps used on cover are possible and are desirable. Worth looking for.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Trucial States FDC's or Commerical Covers

Post by toschka »

a6zsn wrote:
toschka wrote:An interesting thread to say the least.

These oft derided issues are 'gold dust' on commercial cover. Its a pity I could not turn back the clock as I lived in that part of the world (mostly Kuwait, Qatar and Shahjah) for many years and I did visit most of the Emirates when the wall paper was being churned out. Most of these agencies did provide token issues to the local Post Offices - they did not need to provide more than that as there was little need for large quantities of stamps. And I did use some of them on my mail - these covers ended up with a dealer in Qatar who has since died and none to my knowledge has since appeared on the market.
Hi toschka,

Thank you! Did you have a chance to get some pictures during your stay in Sharjah?

Thanks,
Khalid

Hello Khalid,

Sorry for the lack of reply - I have just returned from Namibia where Internet connections are some of the slowest I've encountered anywhere. Anwering just an ordinary Email is like watching paint dry.

Unfortunately I have nothing from my time in the Middle East. I spent some time in Saddam Hussain's prison camps after the invasion of Kuwait and everything I had in Kuwait was lost, destroyed or looted. As I was more or less destitute after Saddam, in his wisdom, released western and Japanese hostages like myself - I sold what I had in the UK to Kamal Lahham in Qatar who has since died. So I am unable to help in this regard.

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