GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

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McGlen
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Re: GB Downey Heads Identification - Help!

Post by McGlen »

McGlen wrote:Hi all.

With the aid of a rather old GB Edward VII - George VI SG specialised stamp catalogue (4th Edition!), I have my 1/2d and 1d stamps split into the various types ranging from N1 to N13.

Q1. How do you ascertain what the correct sg number is for say N11 where the numbers range from sg341 to sg343? I’m clearly missing something or need to invest in a much later catalogue!

Q2. Below are a pair of 1d N11 (crown wmk), so in addition to determining the correct SG number, I am also trying to establish whether the one on the left is the ‘no cross’ N11b. variety. What do you think?

Image

Q3. Just to digress ever so slightly, below is a fairly average 1d N10 (inverted simple cypher wmk). Certainly not the most aesthetically pleasing stamp to behold and a few poor perfs! I’m scratching my head trying to decypher the postmark - box on top of a cross? Any of you guys know what it is?

Image

Thanks for taking the time to look at the scans. Any help/advice would be very much appreciated.

Cheers

Glen
Hi again.

I’ve yet to obtain an answer to the first question raised i.e. how do you determine the correct sg number when guidance simply refers to a range. If anyone out there can help, I would be extremely grateful.

Here’s an excerpt from the book I’m using.

Image

Cheers

Glen

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Re: GB Downey Heads Identification - Help!

Post by mozzerb »

Goober wrote:Hiya, ref the postmark query, rotate the stamp to the left and what you have there is a GB roller cancel, probably parcel - I ran the image through Retroreveal, see below, what you thought was a box is clearly an E - the whole thing then becomes E.X - unfortunately I have no clue as to what office this relates to
Exeter would be my guess.

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Re: GB Downey Heads Identification - Help!

Post by McGlen »

mozzerb wrote:
Goober wrote:Hiya, ref the postmark query, rotate the stamp to the left and what you have there is a GB roller cancel, probably parcel - I ran the image through Retroreveal, see below, what you thought was a box is clearly an E - the whole thing then becomes E.X - unfortunately I have no clue as to what office this relates to
Exeter would be my guess.
Thanks MozzerB. Any ideas how to determine the correct sg numbers?

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Re: GB Downey Heads Identification - Help!

Post by fchd »

McGlen wrote:
Thanks MozzerB. Any ideas how to determine the correct sg numbers?

You need to get an SG Colour Key as the difference between 341 & 342 is shade - 341 is "bright scarlet", 342 is "scarlet".

343 is "aniline scarlet" where, according to the SG Concise Catalogue, "the colour is suffused on the surface of the stamp and shows through clearly on the back. Specimens without these characteristics but which show similar "aniline" reactions under the quartz lamp are relatively common".

The latest Concise I have is from 2018 (awaiting the 2020 edition to upgrade) shows fine used prices for 341/342/343 at £2/£2/£100

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Re: GB Downey Heads Identification - Help!

Post by McGlen »

fchd wrote:
McGlen wrote:
Thanks MozzerB. Any ideas how to determine the correct sg numbers?

You need to get an SG Colour Key as the difference between 341 & 342 is shade - 341 is "bright scarlet", 342 is "scarlet".

343 is "aniline scarlet" where, according to the SG Concise Catalogue, "the colour is suffused on the surface of the stamp and shows through clearly on the back. Specimens without these characteristics but which show similar "aniline" reactions under the quartz lamp are relatively common".

The latest Concise I have is from 2018 (awaiting the 2020 edition to upgrade) shows fine used prices for 341/342/343 at £2/£2/£100
Thanks fchd. I thought they had to relate to shades/ colour variations but couldn’t figure out why the book listed 5 instead of 3. I was expecting to see a description for each of the sg numbers! Thanks again - it’s been bugging me for ages. I clearly need to invest in a more up to date guide! :D

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by Dani »

This Downey Head seems to be printed on yellowish paper. Can anybody provide more information on this?
In the second scan I have shown the stamp on the right against another Downey Head for comparison.

Image
Image

Thanks in advance for any replies.

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by phrag99 »

It's used, so could it have been soaked off a non-white envelope?

The paper is not evenly coloured on my screen, so I suspect it was not that colour originally.

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by skilo54 »

I would agree with phrag99.
The paper is stained. Looks like a hinge blemish as well.

Have a good one,
Skilo 8-)

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by Dani »

Many thanks for the replies.

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by Mike Jackson »

I also think the paper is stained, and not as originally printed.
Skilo's reply reminded me of an item of his that I noticed in 2018 (Skilo, I tried to contact you privately at the time but probably did not have your correct email address). It was a 1d Die 2 B11 control strip from Plate 6 with a small watermark cross that had a bent lower arm. A bit of background info: two Post Office sheets were printed side-by-side on each sheet of Crown watermark paper; you can tell which side of the paper a corner piece comes from because there are small crosses in both outer corners, and a larger cross in the centre where the paper was guillotined. This bent cross variety only affects the right-hand small corner cross. I have this watermark variety on only the Downey Head 1d value (not the ½d), as follows: 1d Die 1b, Plate 15; 1d Die 2, Plates 2, 4, 6, and 8. Some control strips showing the variety are illustrated below. Has anyone else got any examples of this variety?
bent_cross_1d_Die1b_Plate15.jpg
bent_cross_1d_Die2_Plate2.jpg

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by skilo54 »

Hey Mike,

Hope you’re well my friend, and I’m sorry we didn’t connect. I’d be happy to help any time. I can private message you my email address.

Have a good one,
Skilo

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by Mike Jackson »

skilo54 wrote:
14 Jan 2021 12:45
I can private message you my email address.
Hi Skilo, yes, please send me a private message (I can't figure out how to do this!).

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by mozzerb »

Mike Jackson wrote:
17 Jan 2021 04:41
skilo54 wrote:
14 Jan 2021 12:45
I can private message you my email address.
Hi Skilo, yes, please send me a private message (I can't figure out how to do this!).
It's not as clear in this version of phpBB, unfortunately (compared to the older version where you had an explicit "email" button on the post) -- there are two ways to do it:

(1) Click the user name in the user details next to the post. That takes you to the user profile page, and there's an email link on that.

(2) Alternatively, click the little speech bubble icon next to "Contact" in the user details. That produces a little speech bubble shaped popup with icons for the types of contact available for that person -- email is a little letter icon. Click that and you get the "send email" page.

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by gavin-h »

MODERATOR COMMENT

Mike,

We are aware of an intermittent problem with email affecting new users. If you carry on posting on here while we work on it, I'm sure you'll soon be seeing the button that mozzerb mentioned. :idea:

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by Dani »

This is a British Levant stamp, so I'm not sure if it belongs in this thread, but it is a Downey Head. I did post this query before, but not in this thread.

The colour looks to me bluish green rather than green or deep green. I would appreciate if some body could identify this stamp with an SG reference if possible.

ImageImage

Thanks in advance for any replies.

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by Mike Jackson »

Hi Dani, I think this is not the original colour of the stamp.

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by Dani »

Thanks for the reply Mike. I suppose this a changeling. Is this common on Downey Heads?

I also have these two of similar shade. Are these SG 326 ?

Also is the one on the right over inked or a double print.

mFsSv7z.jpg
Last edited by CMJ on 24 Jan 2021 03:37, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Linked image converted to attachment

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by skilo54 »

Mike Jackson wrote:
17 Jan 2021 04:41
skilo54 wrote:
14 Jan 2021 12:45
I can private message you my email address.
Hi Skilo, yes, please send me a private message (I can't figure out how to do this!).
I did send you an email and followed the same path to do so as suggested by the mods. I will follow up with another.

Have a good one,
Skilo

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by Mike Jackson »

Dani wrote:
22 Jan 2021 06:42
Thanks for the reply Mike. I suppose this a changeling. Is this common on Downey Heads?

I also have these two of similar shade. Are these SG 326 ?

Also is the one on the right over inked or a double print.

Image
I think it's reasonably common on used stamps. I believe the two similar ones are also changelings, the one on the right being a deeper shade originally (not a double print). Also, as a general point, it's best to collect shades as mint, rather than used.

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Re: GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamps. A Detailed look & Discussion

Post by Dani »

Many thanks.

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