Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by norvic »

The Jubilee fanfare has died and we now mark the 40th Anniversary of the LIberation of the Falkland Islands.

Examples here from Sheffield and Greenford/Windsor on 08/06/2022 and Preston on 09/06/2022, all in the same format.
Falklands Liberation slogan postmark  Sheffield Mail Centre.
Falklands Liberation slogan postmark Sheffield Mail Centre.
Falklands Liberation slogan postmark  Greenford/Windsor Mail Centre.
Falklands Liberation slogan postmark Greenford/Windsor Mail Centre.
Falklands Liberation slogan postmark  Lancashire and South Lakes (Preston) Mail Centre.
Falklands Liberation slogan postmark Lancashire and South Lakes (Preston) Mail Centre.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by Micky »

Gortahork a village in the northwest County of Donegal, Ireland.
IMG_20220611_135929.png
IMG_20220611_135954.png
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Re: Circular Datestamps (CDS) & GBPS - Cancellation of the Imperforate Line Engraved Issues of Great Britain (1840–1854)

Post by Wentworth »

Thank you VickyVFU, Allanswood and CMJ for your help regarding the cancel and for making me aware of both of these databases:

https://philatelicweb.com/pmks/

https://www.gbps.org.uk/tools/ukpo/index.php
CMJ wrote: 07 Jun 2022 23:16 The page you reference is a display/exhibit shared by a member of the GBPS, rather than a book.

Why not join up. It is the best £25 you can spend in the hobby (if you collect GB) - access to to all past publications/library and the entire display section are worth that alone.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by cwm »

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone knew why this block of 4 1966 British Birds has been cancelled twice? Hand cancel plus a machine cancel?
Rather water damaged!
Rather water damaged!
Sorry if this is the wrong spot to post. All the best, Jon.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Ahoj cwm!

My first thought was the Kettering parcel postmark of 8th August 1966 shows the First Day of Issue, so I was guessing a collector took it to the GPO to get such a postmark. Postal regulations would not allow it to be handed back immediately over the counter, so it was placed in a basket of unpostmarked letters and got cancelled twice.

Just guessing.

Anyway welcome to Stampboards!

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by ViccyVFU »



I would guess slightly different, but along similar lines.

Placed in normal mail, it received the machine mark at around 10.15am.

As the "place of cancellation" was not clear, the rubber hand cancel re-struck it centrally.

two_pm.jpg

(The hand strike looks like the second cancel, to me)

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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by OldDuffer1 »

norvic wrote: 11 Jun 2022 00:26 The Jubilee fanfare has died and we now mark the 40th Anniversary of the LIberation of the Falkland Islands.

Examples here from Sheffield and Greenford/Windsor on 08/06/2022 and Preston on 09/06/2022, all in the same format.
ImageImageImage
Here is a Yorkshire one. I suppose a "14th June" one would be best!
Falkland CDs.jpg
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by norvic »

Like this?
Liberation of the Falklands 40th anniversary slogan postmark Sheffield Mail Centre 14/06/2022
Liberation of the Falklands 40th anniversary slogan postmark Sheffield Mail Centre 14/06/2022
For the record, one from Croydon Mail Centre
Liberation of the Falklands 40th anniversary slogan postmark Croydon Mail Centre 13/06/2022
Liberation of the Falklands 40th anniversary slogan postmark Croydon Mail Centre 13/06/2022
And the next nod to the greetings card industry is for Father's Day this Sunday. Examples here from Edinburgh & Tyneside Mail Centres, the two different formats.
Don't forget Father's Day slogan postmark Tyneside NE/SR Mail Centre 15/06/2022
Don't forget Father's Day slogan postmark Tyneside NE/SR Mail Centre 15/06/2022
Don't forget Father's Day slogan postmark Edinburgh Mail Centre 15-06-2022
Don't forget Father's Day slogan postmark Edinburgh Mail Centre 15-06-2022
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Do we know any reason why some centres have the slogan on the left and some on the right?
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by norvic »

Integrated Mail Processors have the slogan on the right.

Intelligent Letter Sorting Machines have the slogan on the left.

I can never remember which is which so I checked in the British Postmark Society Bulletin.

And no I can't remember which offices have which.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by OldDuffer1 »

norvic wrote: 17 Jun 2022 02:36 Integrated Mail Processors have the slogan on the right.

Intelligent Letter Sorting Machines have the slogan on the left.

I can never remember which is which so I checked in the British Postmark Society Bulletin.

And no I can't remember which offices have which.
Thanks- not a lot of people know that! :)
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Ahoj everyone?

Is this mileage mark from Lower Rea in Gloucestershire? I would have thought it was further than 87 miles from London.
LwREA 87  18081229.jpg
Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Seems Lower Rea has had a name change.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Ahoj Ubobo!

Thank you for that information, but I am still not sure if the postmark is Lower Rea because of the mileage discrepancy. It may have an Irish connection.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by ViccyVFU »



Another one "it might not be" is the Isle of Rea, outside Chippenham (that disappeared in the 1960's).

rea.jpg
86 miles by carrier pigeon, from the Charing X milestone

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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by flip138 »

Could that mileage mark be Loughrea? Although Loughrea is around 115 "statute" miles from Dublin, that translates to around 90 Irish miles (1 Irish mile = 1.27 statute miles).

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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by ViccyVFU »

flip138 wrote: 18 Jun 2022 00:45 Could that mileage mark be Loughrea?

That will be the one.

From the 1837 survey .... (in Irish measures)

loughrea.jpg
Loughrea, Country Galway


You can read more here ...
https://www.libraryireland.com/topog/L/Loughrea-Loughrea-Galway.php

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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Thank you ViccyVFU and Phil,

I wonder why they truncated it. It is not an overly long name.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by ViccyVFU »

honza wrote: 18 Jun 2022 01:57 Thank you ViccyVFU and Phil,

I wonder why they truncated it. It is not an overly long name.
Possibly because ......

Lough Rea (Irish: Loch Riach)

.and if you only use the L and H, you offend no one!!

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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by norvic »

honza wrote: 18 Jun 2022 01:57 Thank you ViccyVFU and Phil,

I wonder why they truncated it. It is not an overly long name.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Ahoj again!

Are these two FREE marks Irish?
3520a  FREE  18081229.jpg
3519a  FREE  18311214.jpg

Are both quite typical and common?

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by flip138 »

The first one looks like an Irish "mermaid" mark (Collect British Postmarks 8th edition, 1A/34), in use 1808-14 and priced at £200!

The second is CBP type 1A/36, also Irish, in use 1815-32, priced at £30.

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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Ahoj Phil!

Thank you very much for that welcome news!

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

P.S. Phil

Can this faint strike be identified in your catalogue?
3521a  FREE  18180807.jpg
Do you have a clearer image of what it is meant to look like? Is there a word below FREE?


Thank you,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Another "Fathers' Day" cancel:
Fathers day cancel1.jpg
Looks like that Post Office needs more ink! Note incorrect position of the apostrophe! (Only one Father?)


Another for the database! :x
Pen cancel1.jpg
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by norvic »

OldDuffer1 wrote: 18 Jun 2022 21:57 Another "Fathers' Day" cancel:
Image

Looks like that Post Office needs more ink! Note incorrect position of the apostrophe! (Only one Father?)


Another for the database! :x
Image
Another PSB pane with side-band stamps used up. I only had one Father, so definitely for me it would have been Father's Day.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by Erinmania »

honza wrote: 18 Jun 2022 03:21
Ahoj again!

Are these two FREE marks Irish?

Image

Image


Are both quite typical and common?

Cheers,

Honza
Hi Honza

The Dublin Mermaid postmarks are notorious for being poorly struck and the impression of poor quality.
What is interesting about your example is the word Free in the postmark. This is not common.

In the 9th edition of Collect British Postmarks your example 1A/34 is priced at £450. That would be for an example of better quality and a clearer impression than your cover. That said I would expect you could obtain three figures for it.

You might be interested to read this thread on Stampboards which has a very good illustration of the usual type of Mermaid postmark.

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=1614024

The other Free postmark you show remains at £30 in the 9th Edition of CBS.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by Erinmania »

honza wrote: 18 Jun 2022 19:18
P.S. Phil

Can this faint strike be identified in your catalogue?

Image

Do you have a clearer image of what it is meant to look like? Is there a word below FREE?


Thank you,

Honza
I am not sure about this one Honza.
It may be an example of the Mermaid removed (Irish) 1813-1831.
If it is then there is no word under free just a continuance of the detail of the crown.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by OldDuffer1 »

norvic wrote: 18 Jun 2022 23:56
OldDuffer1 wrote: 18 Jun 2022 21:57 Another "Fathers' Day" cancel:
Image

Looks like that Post Office needs more ink! Note incorrect position of the apostrophe! (Only one Father?)


Another for the database! :x
Image
Another PSB pane with side-band stamps used up. I only had one Father, so definitely for me it would have been Father's Day.
Very true that "Father's Day" is the usual arrangement but is it (my) Father or (all) Fathers? :) My late Father-in-Law delighted in pointing out such errors as "Customer's Car Park"!
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Erinmania wrote: 19 Jun 2022 00:19
honza wrote: 18 Jun 2022 19:18
P.S. Phil

Can this faint strike be identified in your catalogue?

Image

Do you have a clearer image of what it is meant to look like? Is there a word below FREE?


Thank you,

Honza
I am not sure about this one Honza.
It may be an example of the Mermaid removed (Irish) 1813-1831.
If it is then there is no word under free just a continuance of the detail of the crown.
Ahoj Erinmania,

Thank you for your further information.

Very welcome news even though they are only fronts and not entires.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Ahoj again!

Can anyone make out this very faint mileage mark - probably Irish?
unidentified Irish mileage mark
unidentified Irish mileage mark
I also agree with Ian on Father's Day.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

honza wrote: 19 Jun 2022 05:39
Ahoj again!

Can anyone make out this very faint mileage mark - probably Irish?

Image

I also agree with Ian on Father's Day.

Cheers,

Honza
PS Sudden inspiration DROMORE perhaps. Does the mileage fit?
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by flip138 »

Hello Honza

I agree with erinmania about the "mermaid removed" strike.

I also agree with you on the Dromore mark, Dromore is 66 Irish miles from Dublin.

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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Ahoj Phil!

Thank you again for your help.

I have this fairly clear apparently Irish FREE mark that seems very similar to the 'mermaid' ones, but with no sign of a mermaid or of one having been removed. Is it catalogued separately?
FREE  18290518.jpg
Cheers,

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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by flip138 »

Yes, that is CBP 1A/35, listed at £30 in the 8th edition.

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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Ahoj Phil!

Thank you again for your quick identification and also adding a catalogue value.

Best wishes,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by norvic »

flip138 wrote: 19 Jun 2022 15:16 Yes, that is CBP 1A/35, listed at £30 in the 8th edition.

Phil
It might be worth copying the section in the introduction on "how to price a cover", in case there is any misunderstanding of these values.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by flip138 »

As suggested by Ian, here is the "How to Price a cover" section from Collect British Postmarks 8th edition.

Phil
CBP cover pricing_20220619_0001.jpg
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by Erinmania »

The above is just a guide. Who the cover is addressed to and who it is from as well as any reference to an event can add value and some postmarks are just rare in very poor quality.

I think in all cases an entire is more desirable than a front and that is reflected in current market prices.
In some instances only a front exists so then the buyer has to make up their own minds as to its value.

The value of a cover is not what this thread is about but others obviously disagree.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by norvic »

Erinmania wrote: 20 Jun 2022 06:03 The above is just a guide. Who the cover is addressed to and who it is from as well as any reference to an event can add value and some postmarks are just rare in very poor quality.

I think in all cases an entire is more desirable than a front and that is reflected in current market prices.
In some instances only a front exists so then the buyer has to make up their own minds as to its value.

The value of a cover is not what this thread is about but others obviously disagree
.
I think that’s a little unfair.

What has really happened is that Honza has joined the UK Postmark database thread and asked for identification (and value) whereas those questions should have been on a separate thread in the “You ask the questions “ folder.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by Erinmania »

norvic wrote: 20 Jun 2022 07:56
Erinmania wrote: 20 Jun 2022 06:03 The above is just a guide. Who the cover is addressed to and who it is from as well as any reference to an event can add value and some postmarks are just rare in very poor quality.

I think in all cases an entire is more desirable than a front and that is reflected in current market prices.
In some instances only a front exists so then the buyer has to make up their own minds as to its value.

The value of a cover is not what this thread is about but others obviously disagree
.
I think that’s a little unfair.

What has really happened is that Honza has joined the UK Postmark database thread and asked for identification (and value) whereas those questions should have been on a separate thread in the “You ask the questions “ folder.
I apologise for any misunderstanding but I don't think Honza actually asked for a value on any of his fronts. He asked if they were catalogued and could be identified. The "value" was initially added by a third party and that is what you picked up on and which was added to.

As you state the "value of a cover" is worthy of a separate thread in general terms but really is only meaningful to the cover about which the question is asked.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Ahoj Erinmania!

I am sorry you have been drawn into a petty spat on my behalf.

I am very appreciative of the comments you and flip138 provided, including notional values which was additional valued information.

I have the 4th edition of Collect British Postmarks, but FREE franks are little covered in that edition.

I am in the process of disposing of my collection and I wanted to record some of my examples on this thread, even though it no longer seems to be serving its original purpose of enhancing Allan's database. I felt less confident about identifying the FREE frank marks, so asked for information rather than describe them wrongly. The excellent replies from flip138 and Erinmania proved me right in that expectation.

As the first poster on this thread and the prime motivator of Allan to start it, I lament its degeneration into a running commentary on current slogans. I have to accept that they are current postmarks and must have a place in any database, but their overwhelming presence on this thread has crowded out the historic (and in my opinion) more fascinating postmarks of the past. Perhaps newly appearing postmarks could be welcomed on a new thread about current GB postmarks?

In return I will try to get more information about my postmarks before posting them on this thread.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by norvic »

Thanks for the explanation Honza.

I suppose the question “ Are both quite typical and common?” invited a statement as to their catalogue value, because that is likely to be a demonstration of their rarity (or not!).

Once we got into that mindset, it was important to note how ‘value’ is affected.

I didn’t answer any questions but only because I have been busy elsewhere and don’t know much about the Victorian etc marks anyway.

@erinmania, you are correct that Honza didn’t ask for value, but this is how we are - we often give more than is asked for; while one is providing a catalogue number it is logical to provide the value shown. My mistake.

Finally, based on the title of the thread anything about British postmarks is relevant to a database, and although it might have started with the ancient, most people are much more likely to see the modern, and it is important that they are recorded too. Although the BPS records them all they are illustrated here.

As for the modern “overwhelming presence on this thread has crowded out the historic (and in my opinion) more fascinating postmarks of the past”, perhaps there should be a different thread for the less inclusive study of ancient postal markings and our attempts to identify them? :D
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by JonEboy »

OldDuffer1 wrote: 16 Jun 2022 01:16
norvic wrote: 11 Jun 2022 00:26 The Jubilee fanfare has died and we now mark the 40th Anniversary of the LIberation of the Falkland Islands.

Examples here from Sheffield and Greenford/Windsor on 08/06/2022 and Preston on 09/06/2022, all in the same format.
ImageImageImage
Here is a Yorkshire one. I suppose a "14th June" one would be best!
Image
And here's a Tyneside one :D
scan 6.jpeg
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Here's the latest:
Comm Games cancel.jpg
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by honza »

Ahoj again!

Having ceded squatters' rights to Ian in his endeavour to convert this thread into a new 'postmark of the hour' update, since Allan's database no longer seems to be expanding, may I invite those who were so keen and helpful in identifying and discussing my FREE postmarks of the UK & Ireland, to migrate to this thread,

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=8754810#p8754810

where we may be free to pursue our discussions without giving offence.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by norvic »

No offence taken, Honza. :D

If Allan is not maintaining his database of all postmarks it’s all the more important to have them here
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Yes, considering how much mail is not cancelled, these are almost becoming rarities?!

(E.g. Yesterday only one out of four received was cancelled!). Would a poll of UK Members on this be useful?

i.e. proportion Machine cancelled, Hand cancelled at P.O., Pen Cancelled, Uncancelled.
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by cwm »

A rather late Falkland Islands Anniversary fell through my letterbox today.
20220623_124314.jpg
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Re: Detailed British + UK stamp cancels and postmark database

Post by GBCC »

OldDuffer1 wrote: 23 Jun 2022 21:22 Yes, considering how much mail is not cancelled, these are almost becoming rarities?!

(E.g. Yesterday only one out of four received was cancelled!). Would a poll of UK Members on this be useful?

i.e. proportion Machine cancelled, Hand cancelled at P.O., Pen Cancelled, Uncancelled.
Not a bad idea, I can't remember when I last received any mail cancelled with a slogan and being a collector that's a bit of a pain. Hopefully I may tempt fate and tomorrows mail may provide some collectables.
OldDuffer1 I am glad your getting some slogans and posting them up.
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