GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

earlierthebetter wrote: 19 Jul 2022 09:29 .
Folks

Thanks for the feedback and information.

Much appreciated.

Not sure if this helps but the colour differences really stand out when grouped with the others.

Image.Image.
Being on blued (bluete) paper indicates it's red origin.
Best wishes,
Bill
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Highlander »

Seeking clarification or confirmation on these two please that I make LI Plate 7 and MG Plate 9 ?
Penny  Blacks LI  MG
Penny Blacks LI MG
Thanks in advance.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

Highlander wrote: 05 Aug 2022 19:47 Seeking clarification or confirmation on these two please that I make LI Plate 7 and MG Plate 9 ?Image

Thanks in advance.
I agree they both look correct.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Highlander »

Excellent and thanks for the confirmation .
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by jimp »

Identified a few weeks ago on here as plate 8.
I can't see an "O" flaw.
Does that make it state 2 please ??
black plate.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

jimp wrote: 07 Aug 2022 00:48 Identified a few weeks ago on here as plate 8.
I can't see an "O" flaw.
Does that make it state 2 please ??
Image
Hello Jimp,

SG do not list 'B-E' as having a second state.

The 'O' flaw is not very obvious on many of plate 8 letterings. There appear to be many black ink marks, particularly around 'ONE' on your stamp, and I think these may be obscuring the 'O' flaw.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by jimp »

emason wrote: 07 Aug 2022 04:52
jimp wrote: 07 Aug 2022 00:48 Identified a few weeks ago on here as plate 8.
I can't see an "O" flaw.
Does that make it state 2 please ??
Image
Hello Jimp,

SG do not list 'B-E' as having a second state.

The 'O' flaw is not very obvious on many of plate 8 letterings. There appear to be many black ink marks, particularly around 'ONE' on your stamp, and I think these may be obscuring the 'O' flaw.
Thanks Bill.
A good explanation. It had me puzzled.
So nice that there are experts on here that can easily sort these idiosyncrasies out .
Thanks again,
Jim.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by PhilipJPSmith »

Please see the Penny Black below. Can Anyone identify the plate number please?
1841-01-09 Penny Black.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

PhilipJPSmith wrote: 12 Aug 2022 08:00 Please see the Penny Black below. Can Anyone identify the plate number please?

Image
I would say plate 5.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by PhilipJPSmith »

Many thanks.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by rory462 »

Would the expert panel be able to plate this for me? Of course they can!

s-l1600.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

rory462 wrote: 12 Aug 2022 23:45 Would the expert panel be able to plate this for me? Of course they can!


Image

Plate 1a I would suggest, showing NW ray flaws and some plate wear. An interesting lettering as the repaired form 1b has retouched letters which look quite different.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by rory462 »

Aha -it said so on the back but I'd rather trust this panel than anyone else. Thanks a lot. One other thing; are red cancels more desirable than black and, if so, why? Great site this!
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

rory462 wrote: 14 Aug 2022 19:39 One other thing; are red cancels more desirable than black and, if so, why? Great site this!
Black cancellations are far scarcer on a plate 1a and catalogued (by SG) much higher than red, the cancelation ink colour was changed from red to black but plate 1b and later plates to plate 9 are not separately catalogued by cancellation colour until on plate 10 where stamps cancelled in red ink are quite scarce and catalogued higher and a plate 11 black cancelled in red is extremely rare.

I think otherwise to some the eye appeal of a nice red cancellation will command a premium over the equivalent in black, more subjective perhaps.
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Need help to identify Penny Black plate no

Post by Dragon 3 »

I just inherited some stamp, mainly penny black. Need help to find the plate no. and is it real for this penny black pair? And also how much will it worth? Thanks for the help.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

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Your first post MUST be in Roll Call as per Rule #1.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

An unused pair of plate 4 blacks is catalogued at £35,000
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by capetriangle »

The pair above needs certifying.

The "brilliant white" paper on the reverse would appear to indicate cleaning, possibly to remove a cancel.

I would suggest either the B.P.A. or the "Royal."

Kindest regards

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Re: Need help to identify Penny Black plate no

Post by ViccyVFU »

Dragon 3 wrote: 15 Aug 2022 20:51 I just inherited some stamp, mainly penny black. Need help to find the plate no. and is it real for this penny black pair? And also how much will it worth? Thanks for the help.
Image

Hi Dragon 3,
Welcome to Stampboards.

As already noted, plate 4 pair ... here it is in close up ...

GG_GH_p04_small.jpg

The reason we prefer big scans, is that sometimes they illustrate the faults better.

In your case, "I think you may have an ironed out fold, running top to bottom almost between the pair".

p4_back.jpg
GG_GH_p04_small_dots.jpg

Still a very valuable property, though.
Well worth certificating (if its not already got one).

(Look forward to seeing some of the others).
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Re: Need help to identify Penny Black plate no

Post by faro »

ViccyVFU wrote: 16 Aug 2022 17:41Image

Good spot on the crease.

The margins go from a nice clean, straight cut to "slightly fluffy" in a couple of places, too; e.g. just to the left of the crease at the top and at the far right of the lower margin.

Can't see anything obviously "added" on the scan of the back but worth holding to the light to check whether there's any additional work done to help preserve those margins prior to pressing/ironing. (That should also help clarify any niggling thought I have about the top margin in general, given the apparently expert treatment the pair has received!)

Still a nice item. :)
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by rory462 »

GB1840 wrote: 14 Aug 2022 20:17
rory462 wrote: 14 Aug 2022 19:39
One other thing; are red cancels more desirable than black and, if so, why? Great site this!
Black cancellations are far scarcer on a plate 1a and catalogued (by SG) much higher than red, the cancellation ink colour was changed from red to black but plate 1b and later plates to plate 9 are not separately catalogued by cancellation colour until on plate 10 where stamps cancelled in red ink are quite scarce and catalogued higher and a plate 11 black cancelled in red is extremely rare.

I think otherwise to some the eye appeal of a nice red cancellation will command a premium over the equivalent in black, more subjective perhaps.

Thanks a lot GB1840. as usual more questions arise for every answer. Would you class that as a 'good' cancel?

think it's a bit indistinct. Thanks again for the earlier help.
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Re: Need help to identify Penny Black plate no

Post by Parisboy »

ViccyVFU wrote: 16 Aug 2022 17:41
Dragon 3 wrote: 15 Aug 2022 20:51 I just inherited some stamp, mainly penny black. Need help to find the plate no. and is it real for this penny black pair? And also how much will it worth? Thanks for the help.
Image

Hi Dragon 3,
Welcome to Stampboards.

As already noted, plate 4 pair ... here it is in close up ...

Image


The reason we prefer big scans, is that sometimes they illustrate the faults better.

In your case, "I think you may have an ironed out fold, running top to bottom almost between the pair".


Image


Image

Still a very valuable property, though.
Well worth certificating (if its not already got one).

(Look forward to seeing some of the others).
Might be my laptop but there seems to be traces of red on the left hand side and across the faces. Cleaned Maltese crosses?

Chris.
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Re: Need help to identify Penny Black plate no

Post by ViccyVFU »

Parisboy wrote: 17 Aug 2022 03:09 Might be my laptop but there seems to be traces of red on the left hand side and across the faces. Cleaned Maltese crosses?
GG_p04_ex_pair.jpg
GG Plate 4 (Ex Pair)

Whether bleach was applied "to address the paper toning", or "to remove a postmark", I couldn't say "without some sort of magnification".

Getting it certified should clarify both its history, and current state.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by McGlen »

Hi.

This was sold as plate 8 and I’m 99% certain that the position of the check letters match those shown in the Nissen reconstruction guide.

Can someone please confirm?

Also, 2 questions regarding impact on value:

1) you’ll see from the images below that there is a very small horizontal cut in the left hand margin just below the C check letter - does this significantly affect the value?

2) does having a SG certificate of authenticity and presentation folder do anything to enhance its’ value?

Cheers

Glen
QV Penny Black SG2 Plate 8?
QV Penny Black SG2 Plate 8?
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by McGlen »

I should add that the cut stops short of the frame corner. If it had gone further, it would have run just under the bottom frame and would have created a very narrow bottom margin.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by bathurst stamper »

McGlen,

Looks like a plate 8 to me.

As to your questions, I would say 1) not significantly and 2) if it is recent, probably not a great deal, if at all.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by McGlen »

bathurst stamper wrote: 27 Aug 2022 16:55 McGlen,

Looks like a plate 8 to me.

As to your questions, I would say 1) not significantly and 2) if it is recent, probably not a great deal, if at all.
Thanks for the quick response bathurst. Much appreciated.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by admin »

Any guesses on plate of this 'BD' one guys? 8-)


image0-008.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

admin wrote: 29 Aug 2022 03:18 Any guesses on plate of this 'BD' one guys? 8-)


Image
I think that is plate 5 Glen.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by admin »

Many thanks. :)
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

I've acquired a few 1d Blacks which I would appreciate plating, many thanks in advance:

1. BH
1d black BH.jpg
1d black BH 1.jpg
1d black BH 2.jpg



2. GD
1d black GD.jpg
1d black GD 1.jpg
1d black GD 2.jpg



3. MD ME MF strip of 3
1d black MD ME MF strip.jpg
1d black MD ME MF strip 1.jpg
More to follow:
Last edited by goof on 13 Sep 2022 08:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

4. OH
1d black OH.jpg
1d black OH 1.jpg
1d black OH 2.jpg

5. PJ
1d black PJ.jpg
1d black PJ 1.jpg
1d black PJ 2.jpg


6. LL with tear
1d black LL tear.jpg

I'll leave it there for the moment

Thanks once again for any help

regards
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

goof wrote: 13 Sep 2022 08:19 I've acquired a few 1d Blacks which I would appreciate plating, many thanks in advance:

1. BH

Image
Image
Image


Image
BH is plate 8 with 'O' flaw, but why not try plating them yourself first, and then asking for confirmation or help, there are plenty of online resources to do so and this will help you learn more about the different plate characteristics and also gain valuable knowledge?

Here's one site that has all the Nissen images:


http://www.maltesex.com/plating/
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by jimp »

Is this Penny Black plate 1a ?
I am useless at plating, but I am trying my best.
Please help.
1d Black 222.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

GB1840 wrote: 13 Sep 2022 08:32

BH is plate 8 with 'O' flaw, but why not try plating them yourself first, and then asking for confirmation or help, there are plenty of online resources to do so and this will help you learn more about the different plate characteristics and also gain valuable knowledge?

Here's one site that has all the Nissen images:


http://www.maltesex.com/plating/

I'll give it a go:

1. BH Plate 8
2. GD Plate 4
3. ME strip of 3 Plate 10

I'd still appreciate confirmation or correction.

regards
Mick
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Rog »

goof wrote: 13 Sep 2022 08:19 I've acquired a few 1d Blacks which I would appreciate plating, many thanks in advance:

2. GD

Image
Image
Image
GD is Plate 9. Why? Letter positions and O flaw. And the vertical line in NE corner.

1840 GB QV Penny Black Detail
1840 GB QV Penny Black Detail
1840 GB QV Penny Black Plate 9 Nissen Example
1840 GB QV Penny Black Plate 9 Nissen Example
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

Rog

Thank you, and that's why I tend not to plate my 1d Blacks :lol:

regards
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

goof wrote: 13 Sep 2022 10:28 Rog

Thank you, and that's why I tend not to plate my 1d Blacks :lol:

regards
Mick
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The plate 10 strip is correct, and scarce with a red MX.

A clue on LL is the NW corner, and the shade, quite distinctive, have a go :D
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

jimp wrote: 13 Sep 2022 08:50 Is this Penny Black plate 1a ?
I am useless at plating, but I am trying my best.
Please help.
Image
I would agree with plate 1a, with the NW flaws and plate wear, also the similar plate 1b has a listed constant dot in 'O' of 'ONE' which is not present here.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

goof wrote: 13 Sep 2022 08:25 4. OH

Image
Image
Image



Thanks once again for any help

regards
Mick
Mick

This shows the 'O' flaw and also a hgl (horizontal guide line) through 'PENNY' and SE corner, quite distinctive. the presence of the 'O' flaw means it can only be from plates 7 to 10. Have a look at the Nissen photos and it will jump out.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by jimp »

GB1840 wrote: 13 Sep 2022 20:04
jimp wrote: 13 Sep 2022 08:50 Is this Penny Black plate 1a ?
I am useless at plating, but I am trying my best.
Please help.
Image
I would agree with plate 1a, with the NW flaws and plate wear, also the similar plate 1b has a listed constant dot in 'O' of 'ONE' which is not present here.
Thanks for that I.D. confirmation.
I am really pleased to have got 1 correct, and the NW flaws and the plate wear are what I homed in on.
So I am learning.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

goof wrote: 13 Sep 2022 08:25

5. PJ

Image
Image
Image


regards
Mick
PJ is more difficult but I think plate 3.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Rog »

goof wrote: 13 Sep 2022 10:28 Rog

Thank you, and that's why I tend not to plate my 1d Blacks :lol:

regards
Mick
You're welcome. I am no master of this, but everyone starts somewhere - it's like a game of spot the difference, you just need to try a few times and you will start to notice things. That GD was pretty straightforward due to the presence of that vertical line - which does not appear on any other GD stamp.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

GB1840 wrote: 13 Sep 2022 20:09
goof wrote: 13 Sep 2022 08:25 4. OH

Image
Image
Image



Thanks once again for any help

regards
Mick
Mick

This shows the 'O' flaw and also a hgl (horizontal guide line) through 'PENNY' and SE corner, quite distinctive. the presence of the 'O' flaw means it can only be from plates 7 to 10. Have a look at the Nissen photos and it will jump out.
OK I've had another go at plating and going to try for:

LL being Plate 1a
OH being Plate 9

fingers crossed I'm trying to get this!
Mick
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

goof wrote: 14 Sep 2022 07:27
GB1840 wrote: 13 Sep 2022 20:09
goof wrote: 13 Sep 2022 08:25 4. OH

Image
Image
Image



Thanks once again for any help

regards
Mick
Mick

This shows the 'O' flaw and also a hgl (horizontal guide line) through 'PENNY' and SE corner, quite distinctive. the presence of the 'O' flaw means it can only be from plates 7 to 10. Have a look at the Nissen photos and it will jump out.
OK I've had another go at plating and going to try for:

LL being Plate 1a
OH being Plate 9

fingers crossed I'm trying to get this!
Mick
Both correct. :D
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goof
I was online for Post Number 7 MILLION!
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

Here's the last lot, I've tried but a couple of them I've found impossible


7. RA which might be Plate 4
1d black RA  maybe 4.jpg

8. RF Cant work out the plate on this
1d black RF.jpg

9. RJ tentative guess at Plate 2
1d black RJ maybe 2 very unsure.jpg

10. TC possibly Plate 7
1d black TC maybe 7.jpg

Thanks for any help

regards
Mick
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GB1840
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

goof wrote: 14 Sep 2022 08:46 Here's the last lot, I've tried but a couple of them I've found impossible


7. RA which might be Plate 4

Image



regards
Mick
I think the position of the 'A' is not quite right for plate 4, I think it might be plate 6.
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GB1840
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

goof wrote: 14 Sep 2022 08:46 Here's the last lot, I've tried but a couple of them I've found impossible




9. RJ tentative guess at Plate 2

Image




Thanks for any help

regards
Mick
Agreed, plate 2, NW ray flaws and 'J' is quite low.
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GB1840
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by GB1840 »

goof wrote: 14 Sep 2022 08:46 Here's the last lot, I've tried but a couple of them I've found impossible




10. TC possibly Plate 7

Image


Thanks for any help

regards
Mick
I also think plate 7, looks like a horizontal guide line SE corner.
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goof
I was online for Post Number 7 MILLION!
I was online for Post Number 7 MILLION!
Posts: 3903
Joined: 29 Nov 2012 10:51
Location: Crewe, UK

Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

Thank you for all you help and guidance.

regards
Mick
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