Sharing Copyright Royalty stamps still on the record labels

We all have and handle these from time to time. "Back of book", Revenues, "Cinderellas", duty stamps and all kinds of other stamp like labels. Discuss them all HERE!

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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

dukeprince wrote: 03 Aug 2020 17:06 Adam 8 lots of 6 royalty copyright stamps on ebay, see item 392894584420 and click on sellers others , something may be usefull to you, john
Some nice items there - generally tidier than typical, but nothing scarce. Thanks for bringing them to my attention.
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

Here's the first of a few I obtained recently on ebay out of GB.

Coliseum's first type is very scarce - this is the third I'm aware of. There was one on the other side, but only fragments remained :(
I suspect it was quickly replaced as, being triangular, it fell foul of the regulations requiring "square in shape".
This Coliseum record is from 1912, the first year of the Regulations which came into effect July 1st 1912.
Coliseum type 1
Coliseum type 1
The second type below is on a 1914 record.
Coliseum type 2
Coliseum type 2
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

Sidney Jones manuscript ¾d, perf 14, on HMV (1939). Jones' stamps are almost always found on recordings of The Geisha.
Sidney Jones copyright stamp
Sidney Jones copyright stamp
.
Sharples & Son 1¼d handstamped on Zonophone (1920)
Sharples copyright stamp
Sharples copyright stamp
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

A couple more.

Keith Prowse type 2 ¾d on ½d, on 1931 Imperial.
Keith Prowse ¾d on ½d
Keith Prowse ¾d on ½d
John Church ½d manuscript, on 1927 HMV. New to the catalogue.
John Church ½d Manuscript
John Church ½d Manuscript
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

Australian E.W. Cole's 1d Mechanical Copyright Stamp on mid-1920's US pressed Lincoln 78rpm record. Cole's stamps are one of the few that actually specify the "Mechanical" bit of the royalties being collected.

Lincoln was one of several mass-market US labels "dumped" onto the Australian market at that time, which helped fuel the growth of the local record pressing industry in response.
Coles 1d copyright stamp on US Lincoln 78rpm
Coles 1d copyright stamp on US Lincoln 78rpm
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by MJ's pet »

There are multiple (long) threads here about music copyright stamps. Can they be combined, please?

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2972
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

MJ's pet wrote: 21 Nov 2020 13:47 There are multiple (long) threads here about music copyright stamps. Can they be combined, please?
No thanks, each serves a separate purpose.
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

While browsing the many Broadcast 78rpm records listed on discogs.com for an article I'm writing, I found a few bearing copyright stamps from a Belgian issuer unknown to me (and so not yet catalogued) - Editions Pelgrims.

The green ones appeared about twice as often as the blue ones, and some of the green ones bore a handstamped "B", in two sizes.

Broadcast and Chantal records were all produced under the auspices of Vocalion, and one Chantal record also bears a catalogued Chantal stamp. The records date from around 1930, which ties to the Pelgrims firm being founded in 1929 (by Eugene Willy Pelgrims de Bigard, a Belgian baron).

Pelgrims blue on Broadcast 78rpm
Pelgrims blue on Broadcast 78rpm
Pelgrims green on Broadcast 78rpm
Pelgrims green on Broadcast 78rpm
Pelgrims green small "B" on Broadcast 78rpm
Pelgrims green small "B" on Broadcast 78rpm
Pelgrims green large "B" on Broadcast 78rpm
Pelgrims green large "B" on Broadcast 78rpm
Pelgrims blue & Chantal on Chantal 78rpm
Pelgrims blue & Chantal on Chantal 78rpm
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

A rare triple use combination label.

A record store label from Auckland's Bond & Bond (NZ) with mechanical copyright stamps from BIEM (France) for composer Friedrich Hollander and Melody Music Publishing Co (Melbourne) for lyricist Sam Coslow.
All on an Australian-pressed Decca from early 1938.
BIEM, Bond & Bond, Melody stamps
BIEM, Bond & Bond, Melody stamps
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

A 1957 16" Australian transcription disk for radio play, with a 2/6d royalty stamp, presumably for broadcasting rights. AMCO seem to be the Australian Mechanical Copyright Organisation.
It is nice that the record retains its original order sheet from the NZ Broadcasting Service, and its track listing slip.
N.A.B. 3DB Melbourne 16" record with 2/6d copyright stamp
N.A.B. 3DB Melbourne 16" record with 2/6d copyright stamp
Transcription disk track listing slip
Transcription disk track listing slip
Transcription disk radio order form.
Transcription disk radio order form.
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

Stamps affixed to records produced by Edison Bell (J.E. Hough Ltd) in England almost invariably have the stamp circular-punched in sizes between 13mm and 19mm.
Why is unknown but probably to reduce the amount of their labels covered by the stamp, as they did not set aside space at the base of the label for a stamp.
B. Feldman ¾d punched on Winner
B. Feldman ¾d punched on Winner
Francis, Day & Hunter unvalued punched on Winner
Francis, Day & Hunter unvalued punched on Winner


Other labels contract-pressed by them also ended up with punched stamps, such as this c.1913 Herald destined for New Zealand.
British Copyright Act punched on Herald 78rpm
British Copyright Act punched on Herald 78rpm


Below is the first copyright stamp I've seen that's been roughly cut smaller, from an Australian-pressed Regal Zonophone c.1936.
Allan & Co Melbourne cut circular
Allan & Co Melbourne cut circular
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

The uncommon and striking French Radium 78rpm label appears to date from the early 1950s.
The stamp is a combined effort from SDRM (Société pour l’administration du Droit du Reproduction Méchanique des auteurs, compositeurs et éditeurs, formed in 1935) and BIEM (Bureau International de l’Edition Musico-Mechanique, formed in 1929), both still active today.
The obverse bears another copy of the same stamp.
Attachments
SDRM BIEM stamp on Radium 78rpm
SDRM BIEM stamp on Radium 78rpm
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

I hadn't seen this particular stamp for the Nordisk Copyright Bureau (NCB) before so it's not in the 2nd edition of the catalogue.
NCB is still active today representing copyright holders in various Scandinavian countries.

The record dates from 1923. It is in the usual EDIFO (Societe Generale D'Edition Phonographique) style with their name in a circle and D's in the four corners (for Droits).
Nordisk Copyright Bureau (EDIFO) on Skandia Record 78rpm (Orno-Valsen)
Nordisk Copyright Bureau (EDIFO) on Skandia Record 78rpm (Orno-Valsen)
The label is also a nice addition to by 78rpm Label collection.
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

International Talking Machine Co, for Hungary, on Jumbola. Pressed in Germany for Odeon, 1910s.
Note Odeon logo in green in background of stamp.
International Talking Machine Co stamp on Jumbola
International Talking Machine Co stamp on Jumbola
"a beszelogepeken valo sokszorositas szerzoijoga az" translates to "reproduction on the machines is copyright"
International Talking Machine Co stamp
International Talking Machine Co stamp
Last edited by adam78 on 08 Jun 2022 20:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

Circa 1930 Julius Bard on Czech HMV. Bard was a Berlin-based music publisher.
Bard copyright stamp
Bard copyright stamp
Bard copyright stamp on Czech HMV
Bard copyright stamp on Czech HMV
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

Hungarian copyright agency SEMERT with Radiola handstamp, on Radiola Electro Record, late 1930s.

SEMERT stands for for “Szerzök Mechanikai Jogait Vedö Reszvenytarsasag” which Google translates as "Authorship of the Authors' Mechanical Rights".
Active from 3 July 1931 up to 29 August 1949. Now subsumed into ARTISJUS.
Semert stamp on Radiola
Semert stamp on Radiola
Semert copyright stamp with Radiola handstamp
Semert copyright stamp with Radiola handstamp
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

A record collecting colleague in Germany has just sent me through three stamps on 78rpm labels he thought I might find interesting.

The first I suspect is a shop advertising label and not a copyright stamp. I had to look twice to realise the perforations are actually printed.
G.N. Ghanima on Turkish Pathe
G.N. Ghanima on Turkish Pathe
SGIP (Societe Generale d'Impressions Phonographique) had circular imprforate stamps, usually found on ASPIR records which they produced for a few years after 1908. In October 1905 they registered "Phono" as a trademark for records. https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb13854369r
Societe Generale d'Impressions Phonographique on Phono
Societe Generale d'Impressions Phonographique on Phono
Note the speed "70 Tours" rather than the more general 78rpm.

This rare and colourful ERA label also dates from around 1910. The stamp is probably a copyright stamp produced and placed by ERA on behalf of the copyright holder, much like the earliest Gramophone Co "Nipper" stamps in the UK from 1912.
ERA Record Berlin on ERA
ERA Record Berlin on ERA
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

I purchased a small collection from a local op shop this week. All had been well looked after and kept in clean sleeves so both the records and the stamps were in better condition than usual.

First four Mecolico stamps - far from rare but nice copies.
Mecolico 2b ⅞d on HMV
Mecolico 2b ⅞d on HMV
Mecolico 2a 1¼d on HMV
Mecolico 2a 1¼d on HMV
Mecolico 2b 1½d on HMV
Mecolico 2b 1½d on HMV
Mecolico 2a 1¾d on HMV
Mecolico 2a 1¾d on HMV
Mecolico 2b 1½d stamp
Mecolico 2b 1½d stamp
The best stamp find was this handstamped 3½d for Sidney Jones, from 1930.
Jones t2 030 3½d HS on HMV
Jones t2 030 3½d HS on HMV
Jones t2 030 3½d HS stamp
Jones t2 030 3½d HS stamp
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by musik_x »

IMG_2158 - Copy.jpg
IMG_2158.jpg

I found this 'British Agency - 1 Montague Street London WC1 BIEM' stamp on a record label.

I think it's a rights society stamp and wonder if it is unique in anyway. Would anyone know?

Does anyone know what year/s this stamp was/were issued?
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

musik_x wrote: 18 Aug 2022 23:19 ImageImage


I found this 'British Agency - 1 Montague Street London WC1 BIEM' stamp on a record label.

I think it's a rights society stamp and wonder if it is unique in anyway. Would anyone know?

Does anyone know what year/s this stamp was/were issued?
HI music_x, welcome to Stampboards.

The British branch of BIEM seems to have issued these EDIFO-like stamps in the 1950s, mainly for use by smaller record labels where a non-stamp accounting system was not agreed to. They are not common, and you have found a very clean copy, although a bit off-centre and some damaged perfs on the right. It is catalogued in Stamps on Music as BIEM type X10, set X100. I think the record dates from around 1958.
Cheers
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by Seuk »

adam78 wrote: 02 Jan 2022 14:02 I hadn't seen this particular stamp for the Nordisk Copyright Bureau (NCB) before so it's not in the 2nd edition of the catalogue.
NCB is still active today representing copyright holders in various Scandinavian countries.

The record dates from 1923. It is in the usual EDIFO (Societe Generale D'Edition Phonographique) style with their name in a circle and D's in the four corners (for Droits).
Image

The label is also a nice addition to by 78rpm Label collection.
I'm not sure when "Aktieselskabet Skandinavia" changed its name to "Nordisk Copyright Bureau" but it must be either 1922 or 1923. This stamp seems to have been replaced with a smaller standard design from about 1924.
Here's an example of the same title in three stages:
skandinavia-ncb.jpg

1) top left - original 1922 release with grey Skandinavia and Wilhelm Hansen stamps
2) top right - 1922/23 repress with red NCB and grey Wilhelm Hansen stamps
3) bottom - 1924 repress with red NCB and smaller Wilhelm Hansen stamps of new and smaller designs
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 08 Sep 2022 04:09
adam78 wrote: 02 Jan 2022 14:02 I hadn't seen this particular stamp for the Nordisk Copyright Bureau (NCB) before so it's not in the 2nd edition of the catalogue.
NCB is still active today representing copyright holders in various Scandinavian countries.

The record dates from 1923. It is in the usual EDIFO (Societe Generale D'Edition Phonographique) style with their name in a circle and D's in the four corners (for Droits).
Image

The label is also a nice addition to by 78rpm Label collection.
I'm not sure when "Aktieselskabet Skandinavia" changed its name to "Nordisk Copyright Bureau" but it must be either 1922 or 1923. This stamp seems to have been replaced with a smaller standard design from about 1924.
Here's an example of the same title in three stages:
Image
1) top left - original 1922 release with grey Skandinavia and Wilhelm Hansen stamps
2) top right - 1922/23 repress with red NCB and grey Wilhelm Hansen stamps
3) bottom - 1924 repress with red NCB and smaller Wilhelm Hansen stamps of new and smaller designs
Those are brilliant, it is so useful to be able to date a series of records showing the change in a stamp design or company name.

This Columbia also shows a fourth design of NCB stamp, dating I think from the early 1930s.
NCB fourth type
NCB fourth type
and looking very similar to this Columbia item, also from around 1930.
Columbia type GB1
Columbia type GB1
My understanding of the various stamps and label imprints marked "Copyright Control" was they showed that the record company (or their agent) had been unable to locate the copyright owner prior to production, and that the royalties would be accounted by the record company in a form of escrow should the copyright holder turn up later.
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by Seuk »

adam78 wrote: 09 Sep 2022 12:17
Seuk wrote: 08 Sep 2022 04:09
adam78 wrote: 02 Jan 2022 14:02 I hadn't seen this particular stamp for the Nordisk Copyright Bureau (NCB) before so it's not in the 2nd edition of the catalogue.
NCB is still active today representing copyright holders in various Scandinavian countries.

The record dates from 1923. It is in the usual EDIFO (Societe Generale D'Edition Phonographique) style with their name in a circle and D's in the four corners (for Droits).
Image

The label is also a nice addition to by 78rpm Label collection.
I'm not sure when "Aktieselskabet Skandinavia" changed its name to "Nordisk Copyright Bureau" but it must be either 1922 or 1923. This stamp seems to have been replaced with a smaller standard design from about 1924.
Here's an example of the same title in three stages:
Image
1) top left - original 1922 release with grey Skandinavia and Wilhelm Hansen stamps
2) top right - 1922/23 repress with red NCB and grey Wilhelm Hansen stamps
3) bottom - 1924 repress with red NCB and smaller Wilhelm Hansen stamps of new and smaller designs
Those are brilliant, it is so useful to be able to date a series of records showing the change in a stamp design or company name.

This Columbia also shows a fourth design of NCB stamp, dating I think from the early 1930s.
Image

and looking very similar to this Columbia item, also from around 1930.
Image

My understanding of the various stamps and label imprints marked "Copyright Control" was they showed that the record company (or their agent) had been unable to locate the copyright owner prior to production, and that the royalties would be accounted by the record company in a form of escrow should the copyright holder turn up later.
The green 'Copyright control' design with NCB credit seems scarce. I think it should be regarded as a separate or 'foreign' issue. From what I've seen so far; the small red stamp design is used up to about 1940, but from the late 1920s it is accompanied by a blue version which in the 1930s is the most commonly used. However, I've found no trace of system or logic to why there are two different colours in use at this point.
9.jpg
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Re: Sharing Copyright Royalty stamps still on the record labels

Post by Seuk »

10.jpg
A special version of the Blue NCB stamp. So far I've only seen it on the 8" Edison Bell records and Durium flexi discs, hence the star is probably refering to a lower fee rate? However the regular red and blue stamps also appears on these types of records.
12+3.jpg
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Re: Sharing Copyright Royalty stamps still on the record labels

Post by Seuk »

A few more NCB stamps - Both are uncommon and the second one often damaged as this one.
33.jpg
30.jpg
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Re: Sharing Copyright Royalty stamps still on the record labels

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 14 Sep 2022 05:43 A few more NCB stamps - Both are uncommon and the second one often damaged as this one.
ImageImage
Yes, both these types seem very scarce. Are you able to date the record for the black N.C.B. one?
I think this one dates from 1933.
NCB type 5
NCB type 5
Thanks to your finds the 3rd Edition of the catalogue will have a much better NCB section however.
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Re: Sharing Copyright Royalty stamps still on the record labels

Post by Seuk »

adam78 wrote: 14 Sep 2022 09:09
Seuk wrote: 14 Sep 2022 05:43 A few more NCB stamps - Both are uncommon and the second one often damaged as this one.
ImageImage
Yes, both these types seem very scarce. Are you able to date the record for the black N.C.B. one?
I think this one dates from 1933.
Image

Thanks to your finds the 3rd Edition of the catalogue will have a much better NCB section however.
The title seems to be from 1937. So, I would think this German pressing is also close to that date though perhaps a bit later - We will need to see more examples to get a better picture.
When checking the date on Discogs, I noticed this scan with a green stamp on it! I can't remember seeing a green version of the NCB stamp before, but it's only in the later months that I've been trying to collect the various versions.
discogs.jpg
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Re: Sharing Copyright Royalty stamps still on the record labels

Post by Seuk »

Two post war versions of the NCB stamps. The first used in the 1950s is perf. 10 3/4 - The second I've seen used round 1969-70 it's perf. 11½ and the B is more pronounced. But post war NCB labels are scarce and typical used for releases on small labels.
5.jpg
36b.jpg
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by musik_x »

adam78 wrote: 19 Aug 2022 08:11
musik_x wrote: 18 Aug 2022 23:19 ImageImage


I found this 'British Agency - 1 Montague Street London WC1 BIEM' stamp on a record label.

I think it's a rights society stamp and wonder if it is unique in anyway. Would anyone know?

Does anyone know what year/s this stamp was/were issued?
HI music_x, welcome to Stampboards.

The British branch of BIEM seems to have issued these EDIFO-like stamps in the 1950s, mainly for use by smaller record labels where a non-stamp accounting system was not agreed to. They are not common, and you have found a very clean copy, although a bit off-centre and some damaged perfs on the right. It is catalogued in Stamps on Music as BIEM type X10, set X100. I think the record dates from around 1958.
Cheers
Adam.
Hi Adam,

That's mega appreciated, Thank You. I feel impolite and unsure to ask here in this forum, but is it worth me getting this record with this BIEM stamp valued? It would be good to know, as I've added it to my Discogs collection and can use this information I use for insurance purposes. Is there a stamp grading website, or place, or book indicating value on these sort of finds.

Kindest Regards
musik_x
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Re: Copyright stamps still on the record label

Post by adam78 »

musik_x wrote: 19 Sep 2022 20:14 Hi Adam,

That's mega appreciated, Thank You. I feel impolite and unsure to ask here in this forum, but is it worth me getting this record with this BIEM stamp valued? It would be good to know, as I've added it to my Discogs collection and can use this information I use for insurance purposes. Is there a stamp grading website, or place, or book indicating value on these sort of finds.

Kindest Regards
musik_x
In my experience, the stamp adds no value to the record, whether it itself is common or scarce.
Adam
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Re: Sharing Copyright Royalty stamps still on the record labels

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 17 Sep 2022 04:12 Two post war versions of the NCB stamps. The first used in the 1950s is perf. 10 3/4 - The second I've seen used round 1969-70 it's perf. 11½ and the B is more pronounced. But post war NCB labels are scarce and typical used for releases on small labels.
ImageImage
Good to see these on record, I originally had this design as a lot earlier, so good to have evidence to correct things. Not many stamps anywhere still in use in the late 1960s either.
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Re: Sharing Copyright Royalty stamps still on the record labels

Post by adam78 »

A friendly 78rpm record collector has dropped off some that he thought I might like the stamps off, very kind.
I took some scans of some more interesting ones before soaking them off.

Paterson, Sons & Co, Glasgow, 1926
Off opposite sides of the same record, for a total royalty of 2d. The 1⅓d is new to the catalogue, although none of the manuscript (all in red) are other than R or RRR.
Patersons T2 021 ⅔d on HMV 1926
Patersons T2 021 ⅔d on HMV 1926
Patersons T2 021 1⅓d on HMV 1926
Patersons T2 021 1⅓d on HMV 1926
Agence Generale type 6a, with H Jeny signature. Around 1908.
The Gramophone Co was used enough to have it incorporated into the stamp design, but Homochord wasn't so was provisionally done in red handstamp.
Agence Generale 6a Gramo Monarch RICORDI
Agence Generale 6a Gramo Monarch RICORDI
Agence Generale 6a HOMOPHONE red
Agence Generale 6a HOMOPHONE red
Later named as Societe Generale, a series from c1912-15 with many colour conbiantions and corner numbers appeared - meaning unknown.
Societe Generale T3 yellow red on Monarch
Societe Generale T3 yellow red on Monarch
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Re: Sharing Copyright Royalty stamps still on the record labels

Post by Seuk »

Another variation of the plain NCB sticker using different fonts. Date of release is 1938
38.jpg
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