How do different GB papers react to UV light? HELP

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Feebletodix
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How do different GB papers react to UV light? HELP

Post by Feebletodix »

Help

My mind and eyes are being snargled when I try and identify the various types of ½'s turqouise machins. Its bad enough trying to see the difference between thick and thin values but the uv reaction....

Is there anyone who can give me a definitive description of how to differentiate between OCP, FCP, PCP, PCP1, PCP2 and ACP paper please.

Regards

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Last edited by Wolfgang on 03 Nov 2010 06:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do different paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by norvic »

This question is specific to British stamps, and in particular the Machin issues.

OCP, - Original Coated Paper - slightly creamy to white but does not shine under UV
FCP,- Fluorescent Coated Paper generally whiter than OCP and fluorescent under UV
ACP - Advanced Coated paper - very bright under UV
OFNP - Optical Brightening Agent Free non-phosphor paper - the paper is dull, unlike most white envelopes
OFPP - OBA Free Phosphorised paper

PCP, PCP1, PCP2 - Phosphor coated paper, dull fluorescence under UV, but has an afterglow, rather than a fluorescence
PCP1 Matt surface, PCP2 shiny surface.

PPP - Pre-printed phosphor, not always easy to tell the difference from PCP

I'm sure if you search here or on google for Machin stamps you will find much to help you.
Look especially at Larry Rosenblum's http://www.gbstamps.com/machins/index.html and Machins Made Easy
Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics - clearing Machins stock before Royal Mail burn them all, singles, booklets, booklet panes, regionals - lists here: or email/DM your general needs and I'll let you know whether it's worth sending a wants list.
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Re: How do different paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by maptrekker »

I have read that short-wave is necessary for Machin paper identification.
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Re: How do different paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by Feebletodix »

Thankyou Ian the second link had a page of paper descriptions that was most usefull.

As handy as they were I am left with probably a very dumb question. Is the border the bit which shines under uv?

The reason I ask is there are a few of my halfpenny's which have the picture itself almost bright blue between the bands whereas a larger number are brighter than dull and the rest are dull with varying degrees of brightness of yellow band.

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Re: How do different paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by norvic »

Unlike the stamps of the USA, South Africa and others, British fluoresence is applied all over, and the phosphor is either all over (as indicated in the description), or phosphor bands or bars. These normally extend through the perforations but in some older cases, and in all modern issues, they stop short of the perforations, but continue on the white stamp border if any.

Keep exploring both sites!
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Re: How do different paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by Feebletodix »

Thank you Ian. My question was badly phrased hence your elementary answer.

I really need a step by step guide in simple terms preferably with visual examples which helps me sort to the detailed levle of the connoisseur catalogue.

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Re: How do different paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by norvic »

This is a more-detailed page than you have asked about, but then it can be a more complex subject if you really dig deep - http://www.machin-and-wilding-stamps.co.uk/index1.html
Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics - clearing Machins stock before Royal Mail burn them all, singles, booklets, booklet panes, regionals - lists here: or email/DM your general needs and I'll let you know whether it's worth sending a wants list.
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Re: How do different paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by Iggy »

Hello Febletodix,

If you have a selection of 1/2p Machins it should be quite easy to identify the different papers.

Firstly. as Maptrekker correctly states, you must use a shortwave ultra violet light not longwave.

Always look at the brightness on the part of the stamp without the phosphor bands.

Select a 1/2p Machin with a centre band. This was only ever issued in FCP.
Now if you use this as your guide you can place all your 2 band stamps nest to it and compare the brightness. If its about the same then its FCP. Or if they appear dull they will be OCP

If you stamp has no phosphor bands then it must be PCP1 or PCP2. It can not be ACP as no 1/2p's were issued with the Advanced coated paper.

If you hold the PCP stamp at an angle to the light you will see either a matt finish surface (this will be PCP1) or a shiny surface (this will be PCP2)

You can now use the stamps you have identified to help with other values.

The 1p value is the 1st to an ACP coting. This will shine very much brighter than the PCP and also have the shiny look of a PCP2.

I hope this gets you started

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Re: How do different GB paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by Feebletodix »

Iggy, that was what I needed most definately and luckily I have one centre band to start me off. Now I have to wait for darkness to be able to begin.

Thankyou

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Re: How do different GB paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by norvic »

I would also recommend you follow the RSS feed from http://machinmania.blogspot.com

Although quiet at the moment as Roy is on holiday, there is a large archive and, like all blogspot blogs it is searchable.
Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics - clearing Machins stock before Royal Mail burn them all, singles, booklets, booklet panes, regionals - lists here: or email/DM your general needs and I'll let you know whether it's worth sending a wants list.
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Re: How do different paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by honza »

norvic wrote: 03 Nov 2010 02:24 This question is specific to British stamps, and in particular the Machin issues.

OCP, - Original Coated Paper - slightly creamy to white but does not shine under UV
FCP,- Fluorescent Coated Paper generally whiter than OCP and fluorescent under UV
ACP - Advanced Coated paper - very bright under UV
OFNP - Optical Brightening Agent Free non-phosphor paper - the paper is dull, unlike most white envelopes
OFPP - OBA Free Phosphorised paper

PCP, PCP1, PCP2 - Phosphor coated paper, dull fluorescence under UV, but has an afterglow, rather than a fluorescence
PCP1 Matt surface, PCP2 shiny surface.

PPP - Pre-printed phosphor, not always easy to tell the difference from PCP

I'm sure if you search here or on google for Machin stamps you will find much to help you.
Look especially at Larry Rosenblum's http://www.gbstamps.com/machins/index.html and Machins Made Easy
Ahoj Ian!

I was prompted to educate myself on the different papers used in GB Machins and a search directed me to this thread.

Your notes are helpful, but the two links at the bottom now lead nowhere.

The gbstamps link says ' not found on this server'. and
the Machins Made Easy link says the domain might be for sale

Have they been relocated or have better links emerged over the last decade?

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: How do different GB paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by norvic »

Machins Made Easy was operated by the same person as the MachinMania blog - ask Roy.

gbstamps,com was operated by Larry Rosenblum whose email address I shall send you so that you can contact him direct.

I found both sites through the Wayback archive, and recommend it for any websites now difficult to find.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080930184726/https://www.gbstamps.com/

https://web.archive.org/web/20161127003114/http://www.gbmachins.co.uk/

You just have to go back far enough to find a good record; finding the home page does not guarantee finding the rest.

This is the 23 June 2017 capture https://web.archive.org/web/20170623051240/http://www.gbstamps.com/machins/index.html
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Re: How do different GB paper's react to uv light? HELP

Post by honza »

Ahoj Ian,

Thank you for those links and your email.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: How do different GB papers react to UV light? HELP

Post by briefmark »

I'm struggling hard to tell apart these 1d. SG846 'all-over phosphor' and SG X925 'phosphorised paper' 1p. crimson Machins.

The catalogue I'm using, SG GB Concise 2021, says "Stamps on phosphorised paper show a shiny surface instead of (...) the overall matt appearance of 'All-over' phosphor."

Pic taken longwave UV. I guess there is no particular significance to the colours that appear under longwave UV light? Some appear red or slightly red. A few, really really red. Most gray or black. Bluish, violet and so on. I suppose they're near impossible to hold apart, except perhaps the very red ones. :?
Some of these appear red, some even really red.
Some of these appear red, some even really red.
Pic taken shortwave UV. Doesn't tell me much.
Shortwave UV
Shortwave UV
Pic taken afterglow, tells me even less ... :lol: :lol:
Is there something wrong with my shortwave UV lamp? I tend to miss out on the afterglow. :(
Afterglow ...
Afterglow ...
Anyhow, here's what they look like in "normal" light, sitting on my desk.
Normal light
Normal light
They're all either 'all-over phosphor' or 'phosphorised paper', I think, because I already removed the ones with one phos band or two phos bands.

They all look more or less shiny on the surface to me when I look at them at an angle. I looked for cancels prior to 12.12.79 and didn't find any. Maybe they're all phosphorised paper. Is there an easy way of telling them apart?
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Re: How do different GB papers react to UV light? HELP

Post by norvic »

1. They are used stamps, the reaction to UV will have diminished during use and during soaking. What you are seeing in these picures (aside from the red) is the reaction of the fluorescence in the paper. You need a short-wave lamp.

2. The Phosphor coated paper stamps do have a very shiny surface; if you tilt to the light as if looking for phosphor bands on other stamps, the gloss will stand out (and so may the head). This can also be affected by soaking.

3. Some printings had ink which reacted to UV giving a red glow, as is common with many more recent 5p stamps in PSBs especially those printed by Cartor.

4. Stamps on phosphorised paper show no phosphor bands but have a matt finish.
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Re: How do different GB papers react to UV light? HELP

Post by Phil J »

Hi, Can anyone tell me if this pair of Machins has a defect on the original stamp, or is it from some other source ?
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Re: How do different GB papers react to UV light? HELP

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Re: How do different GB papers react to UV light? HELP

Post by norvic »

Phil J wrote: 23 Aug 2022 12:11 Hi, Can anyone tell me if this pair of Machins has a defect on the original stamp, or is it from some other source ?
Phil JImage
If you're talking about the white line across the corner, that's what happens when a stamp gets torn on the edge, and the corner folded over, when it's used.
Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics - clearing Machins stock before Royal Mail burn them all, singles, booklets, booklet panes, regionals - lists here: or email/DM your general needs and I'll let you know whether it's worth sending a wants list.
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