Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

We all have and handle these from time to time. "Back of book", Revenues, "Cinderellas", duty stamps and all kinds of other stamp like labels. Discuss them all HERE!

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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote: 30 Jul 2022 20:18 This could be the best find on the early rolls from Marc so far.

Assuming I'm not looking in the wrong place in Stamps on Music, or these have been discovered since its publication in 2017, and assuming these ARE copyright stamps, we have here a previously unrecorded issuer and stamps!

I see online that Breitkopf & Härtel is the world's oldest music publishing house, and it was founded in 1719 in Leipzig by Bernhard Christoph Breitkopf but I can't see any reference to copyright stamps being issued. As well as the blue 50 pf stamps, there's the mystery of the "M 1" on the yellow.

The box has the date 10th June 1905. Stamps on Music says:
"The very earliest stamps seem to have appeared in Europe shortly after the Berlin Copyright Convention of 1908". So these stamps, if they are copyright stamps, appear to push back this date by three years!


Image

Image

Image

Image



Image
The beginnings of widespread copyright collection on mechanical devices (records & rolls) at least in France seems to have been triggered by a judgement of the Paris Tribunal of Commerce on 20 December 1905 following a Court of Appeal judgement of 1 February 1905 between the Music Publishers (who wanted words and music to be due royalties) and the record companies.
This triggered the Minister of the Interior to issue a circular on 8 March 1906 noting that imported records would require proof that royalties were payable.
Shortly thereafter Pathé (seeing which way the wind was blowing) beat a path to Lucien Vives' door to arrange the payment of royaltes via his Agence Generale de L'Edition Phonographique and the first French stamps were issued and noted as such in the catalogue (although I'll change the "c1906" to "1906").

This information is largely acquired post the 2nd Edition, and I am still working through a laborious translation of three publications in French to tease out the full story.
1. Le Droit D'Auteur et la Phonographie, 1911, Pierre Le Bec (PhD Dissertation, University of Paris)
2. Le Phonographie et le Droit D'Auteur, 1930, Marc Escholier
3. Histoire du Droit De Reproduction Mecanique, 1953, Philippe Pares

I'll fix up the 1908 date in the 3rd Edition, once I understand better where the 1908 Berne Convention fits in.

In Germany, the AMMRE society was founded in 1909 by Vives' French company (through their M. Crétin). They also founded Mecolico in the UK, NCB in Scandinavia and others.
However, according to Pares' section on non-French activities, while a German law of 19 June 1901 kept mechanical reproduction of music (by records, cylinders, music boxes) free of copyright, it did carve out an exception for piano rolls (reason not supplied).
So it is quite possible that some copyright holders made use of stamps to claim their royalties before the updated Berne Convention of 1908 and the subsequent German Law of 22 May 1910.

What we need is a German publication of the era along the lines of the three French ones noted above.

Back to the Breitkopf & Härtel stamps.
Assuming the 1M is 1 Mark, the rate of 2.5Marks is high for typical copyright - we'd need to know the original retail price. That two of the blue 50pf stamp are from the top row, and neither is a corner one implies there were more from the sheet available. Also that the 1M stamp is fully perforated implies the same, at least to me. So why not use two 1M stamps and a single 50pf stamp to make up the rate?
It is useful to have the 1905 date from the roll box, but is is also possible that subsequent reprintings of the roll continued to use that date, possibly being the first printing date.

I note the tune La Campanella is credited to both Paganini and Listz. It was first published in 1851 and the Listz died in 1886, so probably still under copyright in Germany. Listz in turn used a melody from Paganini's Second Violin Concerto, and he died in 1840.

Nonetheless lovely stamps.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote: 31 Jul 2022 11:01
Iain P wrote: 30 Jul 2022 20:18 This could be the best find on the early rolls from Marc so far.

Assuming I'm not looking in the wrong place in Stamps on Music, or these have been discovered since its publication in 2017, and assuming these ARE copyright stamps, we have here a previously unrecorded issuer and stamps!

I see online that Breitkopf & Härtel is the world's oldest music publishing house, and it was founded in 1719 in Leipzig by Bernhard Christoph Breitkopf but I can't see any reference to copyright stamps being issued. As well as the blue 50 pf stamps, there's the mystery of the "M 1" on the yellow.

The box has the date 10th June 1905. Stamps on Music says:
"The very earliest stamps seem to have appeared in Europe shortly after the Berlin Copyright Convention of 1908". So these stamps, if they are copyright stamps, appear to push back this date by three years!


Image

Image

Image

Image



Image
The beginnings of widespread copyright collection on mechanical devices (records & rolls) at least in France seems to have been triggered by a judgement of the Paris Tribunal of Commerce on 20 December 1905 following a Court of Appeal judgement of 1 February 1905 between the Music Publishers (who wanted words and music to be due royalties) and the record companies.
This triggered the Minister of the Interior to issue a circular on 8 March 1906 noting that imported records would require proof that royalties were payable.
Shortly thereafter Pathé (seeing which way the wind was blowing) beat a path to Lucien Vives' door to arrange the payment of royaltes via his Agence Generale de L'Edition Phonographique and the first French stamps were issued and noted as such in the catalogue (although I'll change the "c1906" to "1906").

This information is largely acquired post the 2nd Edition, and I am still working through a laborious translation of three publications in French to tease out the full story.
1. Le Droit D'Auteur et la Phonographie, 1911, Pierre Le Bec (PhD Dissertation, University of Paris)
2. Le Phonographie et le Droit D'Auteur, 1930, Marc Escholier
3. Histoire du Droit De Reproduction Mecanique, 1953, Philippe Pares

I'll fix up the 1908 date in the 3rd Edition, once I understand better where the 1908 Berne Convention fits in.

In Germany, the AMMRE society was founded in 1909 by Vives' French company (through their M. Crétin). They also founded Mecolico in the UK, NCB in Scandinavia and others.
However, according to Pares' section on non-French activities, while a German law of 19 June 1901 kept mechanical reproduction of music (by records, cylinders, music boxes) free of copyright, it did carve out an exception for piano rolls (reason not supplied).
So it is quite possible that some copyright holders made use of stamps to claim their royalties before the updated Berne Convention of 1908 and the subsequent German Law of 22 May 1910.

What we need is a German publication of the era along the lines of the three French ones noted above.

Back to the Breitkopf & Härtel stamps.
Assuming the 1M is 1 Mark, the rate of 2.5Marks is high for typical copyright - we'd need to know the original retail price. That two of the blue 50pf stamp are from the top row, and neither is a corner one implies there were more from the sheet available. Also that the 1M stamp is fully perforated implies the same, at least to me. So why not use two 1M stamps and a single 50pf stamp to make up the rate?
It is useful to have the 1905 date from the roll box, but is is also possible that subsequent reprintings of the roll continued to use that date, possibly being the first printing date.

I note the tune La Campanella is credited to both Paganini and Listz. It was first published in 1851 and the Listz died in 1886, so probably still under copyright in Germany. Listz in turn used a melody from Paganini's Second Violin Concerto, and he died in 1840.

Nonetheless lovely stamps.
Fascinating!
Here's some clarification on the dates from Marc. It appears the 3rd Edition might not need an update after all. As you surmised, the 1905 date is the date of the original recording, not the date of the roll itself... ;-)

"The date that appears sometimes on the label of a Welte-Mignon roll in roman font shows the date of recording of this piece at the Welte-Recordings-Studios. The date of issue of the respective copy is handwritten at the end of the roll. E.g. Busoni recorded the Campanella Jun 10th, 1905. I haven’t checked when this copy had been issued. Based on the paper used it might be 1910-1913, or even later."

And here's another just in from Marc:

"Here is a1.50 Marks version of the Breitkopf & Härtel stamp, on a Hupfeld DEA roll, most likely issued in 1907/1908."

He also confirms that " 'M' surely means the currency Mark."

Breitkopf & Härtel stamp in roll
Breitkopf & Härtel stamp in roll

Breitkopf & Härtel stamp
Breitkopf & Härtel stamp

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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Iain P »

Iain P wrote: 13 Jul 2022 17:01
adam78 wrote: 13 Jul 2022 09:45
Iain P wrote: 12 Jul 2022 22:19 Part 5

First up is this very puzzling roll.

Before looking properly I thought the values were 5₰, 50₰, 100₰ and 200₰, but the values are 5, 50, 100, and 200...M. Is this M for Marks? Surely not, as that would make a duty payable of 375 Marks on a single roll! A rough calculation shows this to be around $3000 in today's money.

Image

Image


Fascinating!
Two theories:
1. As with some postal items, one item was slated to bear the fee for a bundle (notably with Postage Due). Still a lot of Marks, and seems unlikely as the other rolls in the pile would be unstamped, so not in line with the Acts.
2. It's a roll destined for sale outside Germany so the M is for another country's currency. It would help to know the date of the roll. A candidate for instance would be Poland, who had a highly inflationary Marka from 1917, for instance. A list of currencies in Europe pre-WW1 would throw up other candidates.

It might help to determine what the handstamp WTS stands for too.
Great. I'll ask Marc if we can see the roll properly.



Confirmation from Marc on the above roll:
"—this is the title of the roll with these stamps, issued Oct 11th, 1922. 'M' surely means the currency Mark. In 1922 inflation brought the Mark down to 1/1000 of its 1914 value."

Marc6.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote: 14 Jul 2022 18:29
Now things get really interesting. There's only the one example of the 280 Set in the catalogue, and it's 'blue/green' so the white background is new. But why are there 12 stamps on the one roll?

Also, the mysterious W T S handstamp appears on them all. Perhaps we are getting closer to the meaning of the 'M' we saw on the AMMRE 010 pale orange stamps too, as we see "2 Mill" on these.

Does this mean "2 Million" perhaps? But if so, 2 Million what? I'll ask Marc if we can see the front of this roll in case it throws further light on it.

Image

Image

As we've seen some of these rolls within the 1922-23 hyper-inflation era, if this one dates from around August-Sept 1923 then a royalty of 24Mill (Million or Milliarde?) is quite plausible.
German 1922-23 hyper-inflation table
German 1922-23 hyper-inflation table
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Here's a written up page from my exhibit. Fred Rome stamps are very rare - I know of one other 1½d - although Fred notes affixing some 5,000 at one time. Possibly an exaggeration as his records are also scarce.
Fred Rome album page
Fred Rome album page
As noted in the write-up, the stamps are "puzzle stamps", with two ways to read his name.
Fred Rome copyright stamp 1½d
Fred Rome copyright stamp 1½d
Fred Rome copyright stamp 2¾d
Fred Rome copyright stamp 2¾d
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote: 05 Aug 2022 16:16 Here's a written up page from my exhibit. Fred Rome stamps are very rare - I know of one other 1½d - although Fred notes affixing some 5,000 at one time. Possibly an exaggeration as his records are also scarce.
Image

As noted in the write-up, the stamps are "puzzle stamps", with two ways to read his name.
Image
Image
Wonderful stamps! And presentation of course...
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

I recently was able to purchase a useful collection of the earliest French copyright stamps, including several new to me.

I thought from their images some would be Mint as they seemed so clean, but all seem to have been soaked off records, which is a challenge for the early items to do so without damage, as they often used a very strong glue. The dealer seller could not give any history of the collection unfortunately.

A lot of the Agence Generale and Societe Generale also have numbers handstamped or in manuscript on the back as well, which will need more investigation.

Some will find their way into my updated exhibit for WPS100, especially the pairs and the perfins.
Agence Generale copyright stamps
Agence Generale copyright stamps
early Societe Generale copyright stamps
early Societe Generale copyright stamps
Early Societe Generale copyright stamps
Early Societe Generale copyright stamps
Early Pathe copyright stamps
Early Pathe copyright stamps
Early Assorted French copyright stamps
Early Assorted French copyright stamps
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Picked up an interesting item via a well-known online auction recently.

The copyright stamp issuer Ars Nova of Turin was, until now, known to me only from two badly damaged copies off either side of a c.1929 Italian HMV, purchased in the UK in 1990. I cut the duo to match and made up one almost complete looking example as below.
Ars Nova made-up stamp
Ars Nova made-up stamp
As noted in a previous post (May 12 2022) I'd found no other copies in the intervening 32 years until this Italian postcard turned up online.

Ars Nova as a publisher seems to have flourished between 1927 and 1933, based on dates of sheet music with their imprint. The postcard is postmarked Viterbo 196-, to Civitaveccia on the coast, and so for reasons unknown, someone has stuck this vertical pair over the postmark, in the position where a regular Italian postage stamp should be.
Ars Nova pair on Postcard
Ars Nova pair on Postcard
Ars Nova Postcard front
Ars Nova Postcard front
Ars Nova pair, handstamped "30"
Ars Nova pair, handstamped "30"
They patently do not belong and I have since soaked them off. The original stamp had been previously soaked off, which still gives no reason to subsequently affix a pair of very obscure 30+ year-old copyright royalty stamps from the distant city of Turin.
Underneath Ars Nova stamps
Underneath Ars Nova stamps
Theories, anyone?
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

BIEM Ammre stamp overprinted for Elsass on 1931 Kristall release.
biem-ammre-elsass.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

I assume that's Alsace. The D.Cr. stands for Deutsche Crystalate.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

Yes, it's the German version of Alsace. I thought it was officially regarded as part of France at the time?
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

A green/black version of the French Sam Fox stamp on the back of a Durium flexi disc (Durium EN-22 from 1932)
sam-fox_green_118.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

Also from the back of Durium flexi disc releases (Danish titles SC-171 + SC-185 from 1934).
Both with the regular NCB stamps in blue and red on back, but also with embossed Neye stickers in matching colours. Neye however, is not a copyright holder but is a haberdashery shop founded in 1881 and still in business, now mainly dealing in leather goods and bags.
neye.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 18 Sep 2022 21:39 A green/black version of the French Sam Fox stamp on the back of a Durium flexi disc (Durium EN-22 from 1932)
Image
A new Sam Fox for the catalogue - orange, red and blue, and now green. One of my favourite copyright stamp designs.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 18 Sep 2022 22:22 Also from the back of Durium flexi disc releases (Danish titles SC-171 + SC-185 from 1934).
Both with the regular NCB stamps in blue and red on back, but also with embossed Neye stickers in matching colours. Neye however, is not a copyright holder but is a haberdashery shop founded in 1881 and still in business, now mainly dealing in leather goods and bags.
Image
The blue-red split occurs elsewhere, most notably under the various issues linked to The Gramophone Co like Cinch and Zonophone -often with one of each on either side of the same record. So far I only have theories and a deeper study of the actual copyright holders named on the various record sides might shed some light.

My current theories:
1. Showing a difference between local copyright holders and foreign holders
2. Showing copyright due vs exempt (where a stamp isn't necessarily required but we know record companies did use "Exempt" stamps elsewhere)
3. Copyright paid vs "Copyright Control" where the copyright holder couldn't be located before record-pressing time and the royalties are held in escrow.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

adam78 wrote: 19 Sep 2022 11:49
Seuk wrote: 18 Sep 2022 22:22 Also from the back of Durium flexi disc releases (Danish titles SC-171 + SC-185 from 1934).
Both with the regular NCB stamps in blue and red on back, but also with embossed Neye stickers in matching colours. Neye however, is not a copyright holder but is a haberdashery shop founded in 1881 and still in business, now mainly dealing in leather goods and bags.
Image
The blue-red split occurs elsewhere, most notably under the various issues linked to The Gramophone Co like Cinch and Zonophone -often with one of each on either side of the same record. So far I only have theories and a deeper study of the actual copyright holders named on the various record sides might shed some light.

My current theories:
1. Showing a difference between local copyright holders and foreign holders
2. Showing copyright due vs exempt (where a stamp isn't necessarily required but we know record companies did use "Exempt" stamps elsewhere)
3. Copyright paid vs "Copyright Control" where the copyright holder couldn't be located before record-pressing time and the royalties are held in escrow.
I was wondering if they could reflect a different rate or % part of the copyright - I've noticed some labels with the imprint "NCB ½ Wilhelm Hansen ½". But at this point it's all rather confusing. The Aktieselskabet Skandinavia labels exist in at least six different colours and the first NCB stamps only in red until the blue one is added in the late 1920s.
samlet.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 19 Sep 2022 21:09
I was wondering if they could reflect a different rate or % part of the copyright - I've noticed some labels with the imprint "NCB ½ Wilhelm Hansen ½". But at this point it's all rather confusing. The Aktieselskabet Skandinavia labels exist in at least six different colours and the first NCB stamps only in red until the blue one is added in the late 1920s.
Image
Lovely to see a set in six different colours - that's three more than I knew existed. What perf are they?
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

adam78 wrote: 20 Sep 2022 18:37
Seuk wrote: 19 Sep 2022 21:09
I was wondering if they could reflect a different rate or % part of the copyright - I've noticed some labels with the imprint "NCB ½ Wilhelm Hansen ½". But at this point it's all rather confusing. The Aktieselskabet Skandinavia labels exist in at least six different colours and the first NCB stamps only in red until the blue one is added in the late 1920s.
Image
Lovely to see a set in six different colours - that's three more than I knew existed. What perf are they?
The ones I've seen are all perf. 11½ - I don't have the red and yellow variations yet and there seems to be some shades of the main colours too. Here's an example of a pair of the yellow stamp perhaps to make up for a double rate?
6.jpg
Last edited by Seuk on 21 Sep 2022 03:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

There are also a few colour variations of the large Wilhelm Hansen stamp (all appears to have been in use round 1919-25). However, I'm not sure whether or not the green one pictured here actually exist, as I have not seen it myself (It could be a bad scan of the regular black stamp?). The small black version appears round 1923 and is in use at least to 1934.
The last one, I've only seen on Columbia records and dates c.1929-31
samlet.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 21 Sep 2022 02:49 There are also a few colour variations of the large Wilhelm Hansen stamp (all appears to have been in use round 1919-25). However, I'm not sure whether or not the green one pictured here actually exist, as I have not seen it myself (It could be a bad scan of the regular black stamp?). The small black version appears round 1923 and is in use at least to 1934.
The last one, I've only seen on Columbia records and dates c.1929-31
Image
These are also nice to see as a colourful group. I haven't seen the last plainer item before.

Just arrived in the mail is this full gum example from the French firm of Pleyel, who made pianos and pianolas, with Pleyela being a brand name for both pianolas and rolls. See http://www.pianola.org/factsheets/pleyela.cfm
This stamp is obviously especially for royalty on rolls, and references a French Copyright Law of November 1917.
It is much larger than typical copyright stamps as the rolls had much more space, it is 32x42mm.
Pleyela Edition Rouleaux Perfores
Pleyela Edition Rouleaux Perfores
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Listing J. Albert & Son Pty Ltd, continued.

Set 420, 1939-58. Type 6a, roul 9¾, sans-serif font.
1⅛d
1⅛d
1⅞d
1⅞d
2d (serif font)
2d (serif font)
2¼d
2¼d
2½d
2½d
3¾d
3¾d
Set 425. Revalued, around 1950.
2⅛d and ornament on 1⅛d
2⅛d and ornament on 1⅛d
Set 436. Revalued by manuscript, late 1950s to mid-1960s, for use on LPs.
1⅛d converted by manuscript to 7⅛d
1⅛d converted by manuscript to 7⅛d
1⅞d converted by manuscript to 4⅞d
1⅞d converted by manuscript to 4⅞d
Other altered values are recorded.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

1a.jpg
From Sweden - E. Andersson, Malmö a music store and publisher. As I live in Denmark, I see a fairly large number of records from the other Scandinavian countries, but not enough to be sure how common or scarce the individual stamps are. This particular stamp I've seen both perforated and imperforated.
SDC16527.JPG
There's also a nice record sleeve which turns up regularly. Malmö is by the way very close to Copenhagen (about 25 miles), the capital of Denmark.
omslag.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

Another Swedish publisher’s stamp - Södermans Musikförlag, Göteborg. This release is from 1924 and it appears that the company was a short-lived affair as the only other mentions of the company (from a quick google search) points to the same year.
1.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

With both Andersens and Sodermans above I'd tend to assume they were record store advertising stickers, rather than actual copyright stamps.
I have 100's of examples on my website: http://www.78rpm.net.nz/shoplabels/Record_Shop_Advertising_Stickers_&_stamps.htm
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

adam78 wrote: 27 Sep 2022 07:45 With both Andersens and Sodermans above I'd tend to assume they were record store advertising stickers, rather than actual copyright stamps.
I have 100's of examples on my website: http://www.78rpm.net.nz/shoplabels/Record_Shop_Advertising_Stickers_&_stamps.htm
I think these are publishers copyright stamps, but it's hard to know for sure. Perhaps there's a Swedish collector out there who can provide more accurate information?
Here's an example of a Danish release with an Odeon/Robert Kleinert sticker which could be both? + An Erato publisher stamp which is likely for copyright (the last one appears to be black/white but is also found in black/red - at the moment I only know them from pictures from discographies on the web)
2.jpg
1a.jpg
Last edited by Seuk on 27 Sep 2022 22:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

removed
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

Same release in three stages (A+B-side labels - pictures from the-discographer.dk).
The title was released in 1921 and it appears that the two reissues came within the same year or perhaps 1922.
1) first one has Odeon rubber stamps only (but any copyright label could have been removed)
2) with an almost removed black Wilhelm Hansen stamp and a small rubber stamp which could be a boxed 'C'?
3) with red Wilhelm Hansen stamps and blue/gold Odeon/Robert Kleiner labels
samlet-4-6.jpg
Robert Kleiner was a large record store with an extensive import of foreign titles, but also the main outlet for Odeon in Denmark which makes it difficult to know the exact status of the stamps. Records with Kleinert wafer seals are quite common, so perhaps the blue/gold stamp was just for advertising - but I still find it rather strange that Odeon records are stamped with a rubber Odeon stamp which doesn't add anything to the record commercial wise?
sticker_2.jpg
sticker.jpg
21_obverse.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

Two different colour vatiations of a fairly scarce stamp used by the Danish publisher Imudico in the late 1920s
samlet.jpg

So far I've only seen it used on Odeon records
1+2.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 30 Sep 2022 23:01 Two different colour vatiations of a fairly scarce stamp used by the Danish publisher Imudico in the late 1920s
Image
So far I've only seen it used on Odeon records
Image
Nice, another new issuer for the Catalogue. What's the perf?
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

adam78 wrote: 03 Oct 2022 06:56
Seuk wrote: 30 Sep 2022 23:01 Two different colour vatiations of a fairly scarce stamp used by the Danish publisher Imudico in the late 1920s
Image
So far I've only seen it used on Odeon records
Image
Nice, another new issuer for the Catalogue. What's the perf?
They are perf 11½
1.jpg
Do you know this stamp? (also perf 11½) Not sure exactly what it is but it could be a copyright stamp as it may be a replacement of the earlier overprinted Gramophone Co. stamps
samlede-typer.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 03 Oct 2022 21:04 Image
Do you know this stamp? (also perf 11½) Not sure exactly what it is but it could be a copyright stamp as it may be a replacement of the earlier overprinted Gramophone Co. stamps
Image
N.P.A. = Nordisk Polyphon Aktieselskab (abbreviated Nordisk Polyphon A/S) was a Danish record company based in Copenhagen.
It was founded in 1920 under the direction of Axel Jensen as a subsidiary of German Polyphonwerke A.-G.. During the early years local artists were released on the Polyphon and/or Polyphon Musik labels and international on Polydor.
In 1935 Werner Hamburger joined Nordisk Polyphon A/S from Deutsche Grammophon in Germany. He became the head of the company in 1946 and lead it to become the biggest record company in Denmark in the 1960’s, with distribution of numerous foreign labels including Deutsche Grammophon (from 1946), Brunswick, Coral, Decca, and CBS (from 1963).
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Listing J. Albert & Son Pty Ltd, continued.

Set 430A, 1942-65. Type 6a, Perf 11, sans-serif font, unsurfaced paper. The most commonly seen Alberts stamps come from this set especially the 1¼d. Note various flaws in the signature.
⅜d
⅜d
½d var a. value in dark green
½d var a. value in dark green
⅝d
⅝d
⅞d
⅞d
1d
1d
1⅛d
1⅛d
1¼d
1¼d
1⅜d
1⅜d
1½d
1½d
1¾d
1¾d
1⅞d
1⅞d
2⅛d
2⅛d
2¼d
2¼d
2⅜d
2⅜d
2½d
2½d
Last edited by adam78 on 21 Oct 2022 19:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Listing J. Albert & Son Pty Ltd, set 430A continued.
2⅝d
2⅝d
2¾d
2¾d
2⅞d
2⅞d
3d
3d
3½d
3½d
3⅞d
3⅞d
4d
4d
4¼d
4¼d
4½d
4½d
4¾d
4¾d
Last edited by adam78 on 21 Oct 2022 19:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Listing J. Albert & Son Pty Ltd, set 430A concluded.

Values normally found on LPs, the 6d and the top three values from pianola rolls.
5d
5d
5½d
5½d
5¾d
5¾d
5⅞d
5⅞d
6d
6d
6⅜d
6⅜d
8½
9½
11½
11½
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

I had entered my 8-frame exhibit on these stamps at WPS100, currently on here in Wellington (well, Porirua to be exact). Last time out in 2016 at Christchurch it earned a Gold. I've since improved it somewhat and was delighted to see when I visited the show today that it has now earned a Large Gold. :P
It's part of the Australasian Challenge so I'll be keen to see how my team (North Island) fared against the South Island and the various Australian states' teams.

I also entered 1 frame on the copyright stamps on books, as I'd accumulated enough material to get to 16 pages.
Forum here https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=16825

It earned a Large Vermeil, which I'm pretty happy about first time out.

Because of the relative obscurity of their topics, for both I wrote decent synopses to help the judges understand what they were looking at, and especially the research aspects. I feel sure they helped but I'll head back tomorrow for the judges forums.

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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

1930s Brunswick release with a German Grammophon stamp overprinted for Southern Music.
Untitled-16.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

A modern NCB sticker - release is probably from 1978
47.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 14 Nov 2022 23:20 1930s Brunswick release with a German Grammophon stamp overprinted for Southern Music.
Image
Very nice!
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 15 Nov 2022 00:06 A modern NCB sticker - release is probably from 1978
Image
A very late use - and peel&stick format too. The general approach by then (even from the 1960s) would just to have the copyright holders name in parentheses after the title.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Spanish Princesa roll, from 1927 I think.
First Alonso stamp I've sighted.
Princesa roll with Alonso and Asociacion Espanola stamps
Princesa roll with Alonso and Asociacion Espanola stamps
Francisco Alonso stamp
Francisco Alonso stamp
Asociacion Espanola stamp
Asociacion Espanola stamp
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

Another new NCB variation with J. Padilla overprint in red. This is the earliest use of the blue standard design that I've seen so far.
Title release is from 1926 and the label is of 1925/26 design.
51.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

49.jpg
And same title but slightly different arrangement of label text, which appears to be an earlier version as the alternative B-side title is added by a sticker. This one however has a Spanish Gramofono stamp on A-side - Unfortunately I'm unable to read the oblique overprint
2.jpg
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Kainnikanada »

Seuk,

I couldn't extract a great deal since the colour ink of the diagonal handstamp blends with the '...autor...' handstamp.

Appears to be 'KO_ _G',...or 'KOZZG,' or 'KOZEG,'?
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Time to quit. Was told what I should collect.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Kainnikanada wrote: 26 Nov 2022 14:54 Seuk,

I couldn't extract a great deal since the colour ink of the diagonal handstamp blends with the '...autor...' handstamp.

Appears to be 'KO_ _G',...or 'KOZZG,' or 'KOZEG,'?
Image


Image
KOENIG I think. Very nice stamp too.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by adam78 »

Seuk wrote: 26 Nov 2022 13:39 Image
And same title but slightly different arrangement of label text, which appears to be an earlier version as the alternative B-side title is added by a sticker. This one however has a Spanish Gramofono stamp on A-side - Unfortunately I'm unable to read the oblique overprint
Image
The "Derechos a disp. / del autor" handstamp also appears on other Gramophone Co Spanish branch stamps of the mid-1920s, for Padilla and Granados, in two colours. One has come from a Winner, so is punched.
Derechos a disp. del autor handstamps
Derechos a disp. del autor handstamps
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

adam78 wrote: 26 Nov 2022 19:14
Kainnikanada wrote: 26 Nov 2022 14:54 Seuk,

I couldn't extract a great deal since the colour ink of the diagonal handstamp blends with the '...autor...' handstamp.

Appears to be 'KO_ _G',...or 'KOZZG,' or 'KOZEG,'?
Image


Image
KOENIG I think. Very nice stamp too.
Well, KOENIG sounds right though I don't know what it refers to.
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Re: Copyright royalty tax stamps on Records/Pianola Rolls Discussion

Post by Seuk »

Here's another recent find with a nice Francis Day stamp with German overprint for Denmark on the B-side. Release is ca. 1938
2.jpg
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