WWI era German and Regional Banknotes - NOTGELD issues etc

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WWI era German and Regional Banknotes - NOTGELD issues etc

Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

Anyone else out there interested in German notes, whether they are Regional, Inflation, Occupation or Allied Military?

I started collecting a few years ago. I can't believe some of the detail they have put into their notes especially the Regional notes from Bavaria and Baden.

This one is my favourite from Baden, while it is worn I am yet to find one in better condition in OZ for sale.

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Some other favourites from Baden and Bavaria (Sorry the scans don't do them any JUSTICE at all)

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And finally a superb 1904 Reischbanknote - the colour and details are amazing (Once again the scan doesn't do it justice)

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Just a word of warning if you are purchasing notes on Ebay, especially WW.

A Dealer we go through bought a lot on ebay recently and discovered they were all FAKES, the seller has 'disappeared' from ebay but is probably still dealing under another name.

Kimberley
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Post by crosscrescent »

Wow Kimberly,

These are nice enough to frame - the fonts are really nice, can find them even on Scriptorium Font site and the engraving is something to admire. Really beautiful pieces of art.

Cheers
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Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

Selamat Siang Andrew

Yes, they are Beautiful - Some of the other ones I have are just as nice and have even more detail - but the scans made them look like SH-T.
I would like to frame them but it makes it easier for people to steal them and then of course I wouldn't know which side to display but that is an excuse I could use to buy doubles!

Kimberley
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Post by crosscrescent »

It's still morning here - 10.37 am to be exact as I am typing this - so it's Selamat Pagi Kimberley. Want to put some scans of some of my German stamps but it seems very difficult to get to my Photbuckets website of late. Even to get to the log-in page is difficult. Wonder whether it is happening all over?

Catch you around one of these threads.
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Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

Ma'af, Wasn't sure of the time difference, it is currently 12.12 here.

Kimberley
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Post by crosscrescent »

No problem Kimberley,

Looks like a 2.3 hour time difference. Still having some problem with Photobuckets....

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Post by crosscrescent »

Found this one yesterday while rummaging through my junk. Can anyone tell me anything about it and perhaps what it is worth? THanks.

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The reverse:

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Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

Hi Andrew

Very nice note you have there, it is a Regional note from Baden and I haven't seen this one before, give me a little time on this and I will post you an answer tomorrow.

Cheers Kimberley
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Post by crosscrescent »

Thanks Kimberley,

It looked German to me but did not know it is from Baden. No where as nice as the ones you showed in the earlier posts but it does have a charm about it and I love these German Blackletter fonts.

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Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

Andrew

As they say curiosity killed the cat, couldn't help myself I had to look it up tonight.
The only one I could find on the internet, was the 5 Mark of the same note. It was printed in Offenburg following the 'inflation period' after WWII, as you can see on your note it was printed on the 1st February 1919.
According to our World Notgeld Catalogue, depending on the condition the note is in the price ranges between $US 2.00 & $US 25.00
Hope this helps

Kimberley


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Post by crosscrescent »

Kimberley,
Thanks for looking it up so fast. Now that you mention dates, I notice that there is an earlier date - like 22 October 1918 if I'm reading it correctly on the front of the note. But being almost 100 years old does make it quite something to me. I guess the condition it is in, most collectors would probably not want to even touch it.

Yes the information is useful. Appreciate it. Am cutting your post to keep with the note.
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Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

Andrew

Never discount the condition of a note, I suppose it is much like stamps (when they are rare). If collectors are looking for a particular note and are having trouble sourcing it, they will pay a reasonable sum to aquire it.

I don't know a lot about german notes - that's why I use reference catalogues and the internet. A dealer once told me that some German notes from 1900 - 1919 are often hard to come by and are favourite years amoung collectors.

Kimberley
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Post by crosscrescent »

Kimberley,

Thanks for the added info. I will definitely keep this note as a companion to the small handful of Baden stamps that I have. These are of low catalogue value but have always fascinated because these were the first few old stamps that I had and which had a silk thread running through them. Will need to scan them to post on this forum.
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Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

These banknotes were issued by the Alliierte Militärbehörder (allied military administration) for the use within the freed German territories. The notes had been prepared before the troops arrived in Germany. They carry the issue year 1944 and were used in all four occupation zones. The bills were printed in the USA and USSR. The notes printed in the USA can be identified by a little "f" hidden in the decoration in one of the corners of the notes.
The different Zones: the first characters of the serial number show in which of the occupation zones the bills were issued: USA starts with "1", UK starts with "0", France starts with "00", and USSR starts with "-".




These notes are from UK and USSR occupation zones.
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The 'f' is inside the small scroll on the bottom left of the note
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Post by jherek99 »

An interesting note issued i think on the 24th of October 1918, nineteen days before the German Surrender on the 11th of November 1918.

The other thing is that it is from one of the very small Saxon Duchies in Thuringia, The Grand Duchy of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach
also known as the Grand Duchy of Saxony.

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This next one is from Sigmaringen in Southern Germany

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Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

Nice notes jherek99 8)
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Post by crosscrescent »

Got this recently. Not pricey but would like to know its catalogue value if anyone can help.

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and the reverse:

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Thanks.
Andrew
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Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

Andrew

Nice German banknote, from the looks of the scan it is in good condition, with only one noticable crease.
There are two different coloured seals red and green, also two different lengths of serial numbers 6 and 7 digits.
The seven digit serial number US$3 red seal and US$4 green seal.
The 6 digit serial number US$25 red seal and US$30 green seal.
These prices would be for a note in very good condition, similar to the note you have.
The link below is quite handy for German banknotes (if it is in german right click the page and click on 'page info' then click 'translate page into english')

https://sammler.com/coins/germanbanknotes_values.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope this helps

Cheers Kim

Heres a green seal 7 digit not in the best condition.
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Post by crosscrescent »

Thanks Kim,

Thanks for the info. and the link. Got the note from Mr. Steven Tan's shop on Saturday morning. The price paid is about right then. He has many more of the same I guess in three different conditions. The one I purchased was supposed to be the best of the three grades and because I bought quite a lot of stamps (postage dues - will show them later), he charged me RM6 for this note.

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Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

No worries Andrew,

Since you've started collecting German banknotes, I will send you some duplicates I have. Not in the best condition but you can always improve upon them.

Cheers Kim
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Post by crosscrescent »

Thanks Kim,

You are too generous.

Regards
Andrew
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Banknote Catalogs

Post by doug2222usa »

The "Cuhaj" Catalogs (formerly known as "Pick" Catalogs) do a very good job on German and other world banknotes, but they do not include the "notgeld" city and regional notes, of which there are tens of thousands. See:

http://www.krausebooks.com/category/coins_papermoney/1
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Post by sh-tnoidavailable »

Doug,

thanks for the info.

Cheers Kim
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Post by Raz »

Hi To All,
I just came across this old thread and I am interested in old German banknotes. I am only interested in the very cheap and condition is of no real concern. Even photocopies or forgeries interest me as my interest is more historic and art appreciation than as a real banknote collector.
I gained some Stevens-Henry last prefix Aust $20 notes from an ATM by accident,I only kept them as they were mint- not strictly uncirculated but consecutive numbers so a new issue. I just got lucky with the notes being JC 07 from memory,and theyr'e already classed as selling for $30 from most dealers. I could use these as swaps if anyone was interested in that sort of thing. I have a really old note which I will add to this thread when I become photobucket proficient. Everyone says its easy but I have some problems that are basic and up to me to fix. I picked the note up in the 1980's when I collected phonecards, and all the stamp & coin dealers were at the ANDA fairs. This one was in a room at the Sydney Opera House. Pause for 5 minutes -much shuffling through drawers and folders.HA. Found it. It's a Zwanzig Mark,the k in mark is written like across between a p& a t, Berlin, den 20 Februar 1918, Reichsfchulbenverwaltung on the front with two heads,helmeted amazon types, like the Wagnerian Valkyries, :shock: :wink: :shock: :?:
facing each other with two seals of the Imperial German Eagle between them. On the back(obverse?) big 20 mark in the centre
with a wider eagle above, and on one side a female holding a really big feather (or a sheaf of wheat.Ceres?)On the other side a Knight holding a sword and Lance in each hand. Serial number in red. A beautiful note, worth $1 in UNc and maybe 2 cents in present condition. But I paid a buck or 50 cents and I love it. Also on the same day I picked up a bank of Taiwan Ten Yuan note,1954 on note, and a Cambodian 500 cinq cents riels
with two oxen pulling a plough on the front and a temple and watermark on the back. They are 3 lovely notes to my eye, not worth a dollar the lot,but even the 10 yuan note with a portrait of Chang kai shek(probably) has some beautiful calligraphy. It's blue and red with red serial numbers. I will now retire to my photobucket tutorial. I will be able to type at more than two finger picks per minute if I don't get the hang of it soon. Doug2222 is owed a picture of my dog and I will persevere, Doug2222. As I said earlier,any cheap duplicates or photocopies will be appreciated. :P
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Old German Banknotes

Post by AlphaK »

Hi All,
My very first post on this forum....however I must start somewhere!
I have been collecting old German Banknotes for a few years now and picked up a significant quantity of cheap notes when in Germany (Munich) last year. I collect them because of my heritage and that some are very interesting in their design and detail.
The real issue is with these notes, is mostly they are of limited value as so many were minted. Although there are a few exceptions and they are very expensive.
However as a pure collectable, worth doing and I will continue to collect them, although probably only if I get back to Germany again, as they are not that easy to find in OZ. :)
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Post by MargoZ »

Hi AlphaK

Welcome to Stampboards.

Why not make a post on the Rollcall thread to introduce yourself- its a great place for new members to say hello and see who else has recently signed up.

We do have a couple of members, I think, in the Mildura general area who are more likely to catch your post on that thread.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=37&start=2900

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Response to Margo

Post by AlphaK »

Hi Margo,
I thought that I had already placed info on Roll call? Maybe it did not stick? I will go into the forum again and check.
Cheers and thanks for the welcome.
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Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency banknotes

Post by Kaiser »

Dont really know much about these but have them a long time


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Re: Germany Note Geld

Post by rolin »

In 1919, 1920, after Germany has lost the war, it was short on metals for coins. Communities, cities, villages, and shires (Länder) were allowed to issue 'emergency money' (Notgeld). It soon was in fashion to collect them and every, no matter how big or tiny a Community was, issued its own money. There exists 100.000s of different notes. Lot of them didn't issue one series, they issued several series. It's like the world postal administrations do now issue stamps. Soon was no need for this notes, but they issued more and more. They are nice, and if you have german roots, you might want to collect the notes of your home city. Today the notes are still collected.
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Re: Germany Note Geld

Post by admin »

Good background info Rolin!

I had a some hagners of these in a junky German stamp lot I sold here last week:

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10695

Colourful stuff, and the right "size" for stamp collectors!
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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency notes

Post by benjclark »

Have come across some notgeld and can't find a way to properly ID the stuff. I've cruised through searches on a flickr group, which was entertaining, but didn't have these. I also searched bank note bank, which is usually a great place to start for me since I know very little about currency but am occasionally asked to ID the stuff. I have a hunch they are Austrian. Would love to know what towns/ villages they are from. I'm sure they're about worthless monetarily.

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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency notes

Post by pitronix »

I think this are not German but Austrian!
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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency notes

Post by doug2222usa »

The "heller" denomination confirms that they are Austrian.
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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency banknotes

Post by benjclark »

Ah! Thank you.
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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency banknotes

Post by pitronix »

Hi,

If I have a spare time later I'll look into catalog of Austrian notegeld for proper ID, but you should be able to read name of place of origin on them. Like number (from top) 3, 4, 7 and 8 are from Fraham municipality in district Eferding. No. 6 is Altenfelden munci in Rohrbach district, both districts are in upper Austria.

Hope it helps :)
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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency banknotes

Post by smauggie »

On occasion a cinderella stamp offering is made in our stamp club auctions. I bid on the last one sight-unseen as the price was right ($2). It turned out to be a cute little lot of Austrian notgeld. It was a pleasant surprise.

I had seen them before but I forgot how attractive they are. Still I am unlikely to branch out into another collecting area. Stamps already have me near broke. :lol:
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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency banknotes

Post by benjclark »

I have some more that are a little easier to tell where they are from, and they are just beautiful. Apparently collecting them was popular in period and some people credit this as the birth of modern currency collecting-- of course I'm out of the loop on how accurate that claim can be-- but it would certainly be understandable. It seems there are conservatively 100,000s of varieties.
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German Notgelden Bielefeld Anybody know value?

Post by Lundy »

Hi all,

As occasionally happens I found something other than stamps in a lot, at first I thought the were some kitsch souvenirs but actually they appear more interesting!!

I believe these were issued locally instead of coins following the end of World War 1 when metals etc were in short supply.

I know very little but the 100 Mark one seems to have some value (according to some of my trawling around the internet)

Does anybody know anythign about them?

Thanks

Lundy :D

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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency banknotes

Post by GlenStephens »

They issued some VERY pretty notes. :)
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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency banknotes

Post by benjclark »

A cursory, amateur look around the literature suggests that modern currency collecting was born of the varieties of notgeld. Very cool.
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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency banknotes

Post by Lundy »

Thanks for merging Glen,

I missed this thread!

A nice area to collect I imagine, amazing to see that they used silk and velvet etc for some of these due to metal shortages

Lundy :D
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Re: Germany Note Geld or Notgeld currency banknotes

Post by Szykney »

I've had these notgelds in my collection for quite some time. Any background information anyone could offer would be appreciated.

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This is the folder they came in and the common design of the reverse of each note.

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Can someone identify these German language notes for me?

Post by Szykney »

Any information about these notes would be appreciated.

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Re: Can someone identify these German language notes for me?

Post by vikingeck »

They are called "NOTGELD". paper money in low denominations issued by local German communities / towns . Metal for coin was very scarce due to WWi shortages in 1920-21 that the pennies needed for small transactions in shops , buying groceries were unavailable . these took the place of copper coins.

Every town had its own designs
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Re: Can someone identify these German language notes for me?

Post by muruk »

On the bottom left hand note:

"uns Geld is ut Blech, un ut luder Papier."

= our money is (made) of sheetmetal, and of crude paper.
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Re: Can someone identify these German language notes for me?

Post by Szykney »

Thanks vikingeck and muruk.

I have some other notgelds, but these seem a bit more light-hearted in their depictions.

The "our money is (made) of sheetmetal, and of crude paper" quote is fascinating.

"Jungen Pumpsack, olen Lumpsack" translates to "Young Pumpsack, Lumpsack oil" using an on-line translator. Can anyone offer a better translation?
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Re: Can someone identify these German language notes for me?

Post by muruk »

Google translate won't help.

The technical bits are in high(land) German "Gutschein der Gemeinde ...", but the poetic bits are in a local dialect that won't be found in translation software.

Some local knowledge is needed, and whereas I could understand the bit I translated above, most of the rest escapes me.

In your example, I would read Olen as old. Your translator has converted Olen to Ölen, which does mean oils. Lumpsack and Pumpsack I have no idea.

We need native speakers from the area to help.

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Stewie1980
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Re: Can someone identify these German language notes for me?

Post by Stewie1980 »

The parts in dialect are in Low German.

De Tieden sünd slecht, dat Brot is heel dür

It looks more Dutch then German!

Dutch: De tijden zijn slecht, het brood is heel duur
German: Die Zeiten sind schlecht, das Brot ist sehr teuer

Oh, and in English: The times are bad, the bread is very expensive

I think many Germans can't read or understand this Low German.
I will try to translate some.

Ahn' Saat keen Oarn! Ahn' Arbeit keen Pris!
On seed no ..?..! On labour no price!

Nord und Süd, De Welt is wit. Ost und West, To hus is best.
North and south, the world is wide. East and West, at home is best.

De Tieden sünd swoar, De Tieden sünd slecht, Leggt all mit Hand an, Denn ward wedder recht.
The times are tough, The times are bad, All put your hands to it, Then it becomes right again.

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muruk
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Re: Can someone identify these German language notes for me?

Post by muruk »

Stewie1980 wrote:Ahn' Saat keen Oarn! Ahn' Arbeit keen Pris!
On seed no ..?..! On labour no price!
On seed no ear? ... as in ears of wheat?
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Re: Can someone identify these German language notes for me?

Post by MaJu »

muruk wrote:
Stewie1980 wrote:Ahn' Saat keen Oarn! Ahn' Arbeit keen Pris!
On seed no ..?..! On labour no price!
On seed no ear? ... as in ears of wheat?
"Ahn" means "ohne" (without).
And I strongly think that "Oarn" stands, in this dialect, for "Ernte" (harvest), and then it makes easily sense:
No harvest without seed, no prize without labour.
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