Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

We all have and handle these from time to time. "Back of book", Revenues, "Cinderellas", duty stamps and all kinds of other stamp like labels. Discuss them all HERE!

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Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by maalgard »

I really like these cinderellas. Robson Lowe list two shades, dark and pale / light blue.

Here's a advertising postcard for the expedition :
Image
And a mint example:
Image
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Re: MS as postage, what does that mean ?

Post by sherro »

maalgard wrote:
Here's a advertising postcard for the expedition :
Image
Matt, that is a superb card 8) 8) and I love the "1/-" in the bottom right corner. Those were the days!
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Re: MS as postage, what does that mean ?

Post by maalgard »

well spotted. And it is adressed to Lady Chatterley (well at least miss Chatterley :D )

Here's the front :
Image

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Re: MS as postage, what does that mean ?

Post by Diver Pete »

Very nice Matt! :mrgreen:

I dug up my Everest cinder to show you:

Image


Is it the dark or light blue version?
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Re: MS as postage, what does that mean ?

Post by maalgard »

It looks light blue to me, but difficult to say on scan. My exemple is dark blue.
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Re: MS as postage, what does that mean ?

Post by maalgard »

here are some blocks from Tibetanpost where we can see the different shades :


http://www.tibetanpost.com/images/items/E/exp0586.jpg

http://www.tibetanpost.com/images/items/E/exp0585.jpg

Matt


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http://www.tibetanpost.com/tibetanpost/
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1924 British Everest Expedition

Post by Catweazle »

This is a 1924 British Mt. Everest Expedition postcard from my collection:

(the photos are a bit blurred - sorry! - but then I'm not really a pro when it comes to closeups on a silly camera that thinks it knows how to focus... :lol:)
Image
Image
The dark patch on the right is only my shadow :wink:

Closeups of the two stamps (is the British Expedition stamp a cinderella?)
Image
Image
It is addressed to a distant relative of mine, though who exactly I'm not so sure at this moment (I should ask Dad...) I would be very interested to know how much it may be worth, and if it is rare or not. Apart from mine, I have only ever seen one other on a website somewhere, and a MUH British Expedition stamp for sale in an auction catalogue. Here is the one from the other website:
Image
(I would post the link as well, but don't know what site it is anymore as only the picture has been saved on my computer for a while!) It seems as if my postcard is in slightly better condition, as this other one has somewhat "battered" edges, a brown ring (perhaps it was used as a coaster?!) and a smudged postmark. What do you guys think? I also noticed that the handwriting is similar on the front, though it is a print on the back.

I have researched this Expedition and its postcards on the internet, and came across the following below - from :arrow:https://www.mounteverest.uk.com
I include it if you are interested. (All copyright and what not to whoever wrote it; a Sandra Noel August 2001, I think) Hopefully there is not a maximum length allowed for posts! I would be interested if anyone else knows something about my postcard too, by the way. :D


"The 1922 Mount Everest Expedition mounted by the Mount Everest Committee had been immensely successful, and Sir Francis Younghusband, the President of the Royal Geographical Society, was keen to capitalise on the valuable lessons which had been learned in 1922; initially, there was hope that another expedition could leave in 1923, but it soon became obvious that there were too many hurdles to overcome, and that the earliest feasible date would be 1924.

"Plans went ahead, but there was a constant financial problem; Captain John Noel, who had accompanied the 1922 expedition as the Official Photographer, and had been invited to act in the same role in 1924, presented a scheme which, at a stroke, would relieve the Committee of a major financial burden - he proposed buying all the photographic rights, both for film and stills, and lecture rights, in return for the vast sum of £8,000.

The idea was accepted readily, and Noel agreed to pay the entire sum before the expedition departed. Not himself a wealthy man, he set up a company - Explorers Films - and invited friends to contribute to the scheme, in the expectation that, when the film and lecture tours were undertaken in the Autumn 1924, the company members would soon recoup their initial financial outlay.

"The greatest obstacle was to sustain interest in the expedition; long before the age of television, it would be vital to keep the public attention focused on the expedition's progress, so that, when the film was shown many months later, the response would make the entire undertaking worthwhile. His aim was to publicise the expedition by means of a postcard, sent from the mountain, which would encourage mainly youngsters to persuade their parents to take them to a film or lecture show, with the memorable postcard as a souvenir.

"Noel designed the postcard, using one of his images of Base Camp, and the commemorative stamp. He put an advert in one of the daily papers, and engaged 2 secretaries to deal with what he hoped would be a positive response. By 10 am, the deluge of mail overwhelmed the 2 girls, who fled in panic! So Noel had to quickly engage an Agency to handle the sack loads of mail which were sent in; each address was transferred to an Everest postcard, which was then packed for transportation to Base Camp.

"By virtue of his enormous contribution to the expedition, and the fact that he was the official photographer, Noel was entitled to certain privileges, one being the opportunity to take an immense amount of baggage; the leader, General Bruce, often complained at the amount which Noel was taking - Noel legitimately attributed these sacks to essential photographic equipment!! At Base Camp, an Indian stamp was added and the thousands of cards were dispatched. Thus the explanation for the different handwriting of the address, and the disparity in dispatch dates and provenance.

"The exercise proved very successful; whilst lecturing in the United Kingdom, and even in continental Europe, Noel was approached by enthusiastic youngsters, delighted at owning such a special souvenir of a great climb, although it had also been such a tragic attempt on the mountain. Today, it is a great privilege for me, when I hear of people who received a card themselves, or have inherited one, and who are interested in the story.

"However, at the time, the exercise was frowned upon by the Mount Everest Committee, despite the enormous amount of publicity it generated, at a time when such - free- advertising was relatively unknown. In reply to an enquiry in 1927, the Secretary wrote: '......I have to say that the Mount Everest Committee know nothing officially of any so-called Mount Everest stamps, though they have heard from time to time some reference to something of the kind which was apparently a private enterprise on the part of the gentleman who had the photographic rights in the Expedition of 1924'. How attitudes to such sponsorship have since changed!!

"Noel was indeed a man of great vision and enterprise; but .little could he ever have imagined that, only 12 years after his death - at the age of 99 in 1989 - the world would again become absorbed in the mystery of Mallory and Irvine, and demand for his beautifully hand-painted glass plates would be immense, as speculation continues regarding the possibility that those 2 great climbers might have been the first to conquer Mount Everest."
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Re: 1924 British Everest Expedition

Post by Brummie »

I think the same person wrote both those cards. Same handwriting on both of them and exactly the same message. :wink:

The Mount Everest is a cinderella.
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Re: 1924 British Everest Expedition

Post by Eric Casagrande »

Brummie wrote:I think the same person wrote both those cards. Same handwriting on both of them and exactly the same message. :wink:

The Mount Everest is a cinderella.
Maybe the individual signed a group of them as a souvenir keepsake for people. The front of the postcards have different handwriting, and the circular cancels are different styles as well.
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Re: 1924 British Everest Expeditio

Post by Catweazle »

Eric Casagrande wrote:
Brummie wrote:I think the same person wrote both those cards. Same handwriting on both of them and exactly the same message. :wink:

The Mount Everest is a cinderella.
Maybe the individual signed a group of them as a souvenir keepsake for people. The front of the postcards have different handwriting, and the circular cancels are different styles as well.
Wow! 2 posts already! Just in regards to the handwriting - I think you are right, the handwriting is the same. The words on the back I think are printed (like the photo) but the addresses are handwritten in both cases...
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Re: 1924 British Everest Expedition

Post by Brummie »

Phew I can stop standing on my head to look at that. You can rotate the image you know which would cut down on the gymnastics :idea:

So the addressees writing is original and the message is printed on both?
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Re: 1924 British Everest Expeditio

Post by Catweazle »

Brummie wrote:Phew I can stop standing on my head to look at that. You can rotate the image you know which would cut down on the gymnastics :idea:
You can rotate the image? Maybe I don't know how to use photobucket after all, then! :lol: :lol: (it's much easier with the actual postcard in my hand, just a flick of the wrist!)
Brummie wrote:So the addressees writing is original and the message is printed on both?
Yes. So, while the recipients thought "hey, what nice words! He remembers me while he's on the other side of the world!" little did they know at the time that Uncle Tom and the rest had the same words on his card too. Mass market produce. :lol: :lol:
(I'm feeling rather happy today, as you might have guessed)
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Re: 1924 British Everest Expedition

Post by tonymacg »

Stampboards member maalgard has this stamp as his avatar. Why not contact him for details?
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Re: 1924 British Everest Expeditio

Post by Catweazle »

tonymacg wrote:Stampboards member maalgard has this stamp as his avatar. Why not contact him for details?
I will, thanks! Do you mean the cinderella or the Indian stamp, by the way?
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Re: 1924 British Everest Expedition

Post by mrboggler »

Great Items and worth a Bob or Two. :wink:
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Re: 1924 British Everest Expeditio

Post by Jack »

I vaguely think these were semi-advertising; 'Apparently the expedition did produce a set of cards like these for sale.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/everest/lost/mail/mail990511n2.html

I have a vague feeling they recouped money with shows in London etc.. Are these not written but printed with a font that looks like writing? They are not common , but the ones people really want are the personal ones using these pre-printed cards. These exist but are very scarce
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Re: 1924 British Everest Expeditio

Post by tonymacg »

Catweazle wrote:
tonymacg wrote:Stampboards member maalgard has this stamp as his avatar. Why not contact him for details?
I will, thanks! Do you mean the cinderella or the Indian stamp, by the way?
The cinderella
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or cinderellas

Post by admin »

These on the full postcard are $US500 type items on ebay regularly-

https://cgi.ebay.com.sg/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130006720889

I quickly sold one on piece here for $A55.
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=13199
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Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or cinderellas

Post by maalgard »

hi,

Very popular postcards indeed. These were used to promote the movie of the expedition to finance it. That's why you will find the same handwritings.

They sell pretty well (75€ plus all fees etc), like this one, very similar to yours, sold at Gaertner's last auction session :

https://www.auktionen-gaertner.de/www/PHILNET/GAERTNER/GPKATA ... 4F0066EC90
Image
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expediti

Post by Catweazle »

maalgard wrote:hi,

Very popular postcards indeed. These were used to promote the movie of the expedition to finance it. That's why you will find the same handwritings.
Matt
Any idea how many were printed?
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or cinderellas

Post by maalgard »

Absolutely no idea.

Robson didn't mention it in his encyclopedia. Maybe Waterfall or Hellrigl in their tibetan works but I don't have them.

The rarity is more to find in the cancels, like this one that you may find on tibetanpost.com ($375) :

http://www.tibetanpost.com/images/items/E/exp0646.jpg

Matt

Once again looks like the images have gone.
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or cinderellas

Post by skilo54 »

This is why I love Stampboards! I too have one of these postcards and member 8) catweazle 8) was kind enough te link to this forum. :D There is soooo much information it is unbelievable!

Here are the scans of mine-

Image
Image
I have always liked the looks of this item and often wondered what the story behind it was, now I have some great info on it!! Thanks everyone- you guys rock!
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or cinderellas

Post by Global Administrator »

Nice card .. a VALUABLE item these days. :lol:

Great assist there from Catweazle. :)
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or cinderellas

Post by skilo54 »

Global Administrator wrote:Nice card .. a VALUABLE item these days. :lol:

Great assist there from Catweazle. :)
I couldn't agree more! As I said, this is why I love being a new member to this site!! The information exchange on these threads is phenomenal! A big "high-five" to all the Stampboards members from a rookie in Canada!

What would the value of this cover be? I do realise that putting a value on something is kind of tricky, but I'd love to know out of curiosity!

You never know, I may just be tempted into my first official trade/transaction..... I do need more stockbooks/albums, lots more! :D

Have a great Day!
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or cinderellas

Post by Global Administrator »

Well you have the 20 days/20 posts under your belt now so give it a try.

Easily a $US150+ card these days, as it looks to be in nice shape for 1924. 8)

Buys a lot of supplies!
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or cinderellas

Post by skilo54 »

Mr G.A.

Is there any way you or one of the more advanced members could help me with some basic/general guidelines for etiquette regarding these type of transactions?

I have only ever sold a Gold Edward coin on ebay, so any tips for structuring my first transaction would be appreciated. Is there a thread relating to this topic?

Thanks for your time Sir,
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or cinderellas

Post by skilo54 »

Thanks Mr. G.A.
I'll have to check this from my iphone once at work, I'm running late, Stampboards has a way of doing that lately, along with making some interestingly late nights!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expediti

Post by Catweazle »

I love this thread too - one of my favourite items in my collection. All the more so, perhaps, because I have inherited a love of mountains from my Dad! :D

Stampboards on your iphone, and being able to access on the train or something? I bet that's something Glen never thought would happen when he first set up this site! (When was that, by the way?) The technology these days is rather amazing.

By the way, just noticed again the recipient of this postcard; is a relation of Ernest Hemingway?
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by Global Administrator »

Catweazel - spin it around in a new image and start a new thread on it .. we have a ton of forensic detectives here who may well find out for you!

This board is not even 3 years old!
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expediti

Post by Catweazle »

Global Administrator wrote:Catweazel - spin it around in a new image and start a new thread on it .. we have a ton of forensic detectives here who may well find out for you!

This board is not even 3 years old!
Well it doesn't matter too much, cause it's not mine! It's just I can't quite read that cursive handwriting - to me it looks like "Hemingway"
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by Philanthropist »

Spoke with the "Silver Fox" today, who pointed out that covers are more difficult to find, and also that there are several differnt cancels, for various camps at different levels. These all seem to be from the one base camp, does anyone have a cover or different cancellations to display? Regards GOMC 3
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expediti

Post by Catweazle »

Philanthropist wrote:These all seem to be from the one base camp, does anyone have a cover or different cancellations to display? Regards GOMC 3
Yes, there are. I think one of the members has a picture of either one he/she has or one sold, something from about 17,000 feet. Not sure which thread its on though...
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by adam78 »

Here's another copy of the much rarer "17,000 ft" cancel
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by Philanthropist »

It seems that there are light and dark shades, not caused by fading.
Also that "a lot" of postcards, but no cover as yet. Postcards addressed to Chatterly, Cooper, Hemmingway from ?Bongbuk Glacier base Camp, with cancels in red, usually Exhibition cancel, but one just Calcutta, together with another cancelled MAIN BASE CAMP 17,000 with cancel in black. The "Silver Fox" had the idea that the base camp was relatively common, but the other camps were scarcer, and that there were several other, not just those shown so far.
And a very detailed and interesting history produced as well, to set up the background scene.
Now if some one can just find the photos, rewrite history, we can all sleep easy again. Must Visir there, :roll: sometime :o :shock:
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expediti

Post by Catweazle »

Philanthropist wrote: Now if some one can just find the photos, rewrite history, we can all sleep easy again. Must Visir there, :roll: sometime :o :shock:
Sure... when I'm retired... :wink:
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by maalgard »

Hi,

There are two other rare cancels.

This one :
Image gone.
https://www.tibetanpost.com/images/items/E/exp0584.jpg
Image
and this one :
Image
The later two pictures from this nice site…

https://himalayana.com

where you can find all the story behind the stamps.

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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expediti

Post by Catweazle »

maalgard wrote:
Image
Great cover, that! 8)

Just had a look on that website maalgard posted, and saw this:
Image
Isn't it just great!
maalgard wrote:
Image
What was the "Tractor Party"? :? Did they clear a path near the start of the "trek-part" so everything could get through? Presumably there were not as many paths in those days as there are now?

Also, on
https://himalayana.com/1924-The-Advertising-Postcard,
it says "It is also unlikely that any card sent from the expedition travelled further than New Zealand." Does that statement refer only to the Advertising Card? Most of the cards pictured on this thread are from England, so are they not the advertising card? Does anyone have a picture of the front of this one?

Another nice object I saw on the site:
Image
Anyway, I'll let you go to that website yourself and have a look, instead of posting all the best pics here! :lol:


By the way (not from that website :wink: ), can someone identify the postmark on this one? I can't quite read it.
Image
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by maalgard »

The red cancel is the classical "Rongbuk glacier base camp". The other ones are in black or purple.

The 6x6 multiple is a complete sheet :
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by maalgard »

I've just found another site with a very interesting Everest exhibit : http://alpinestamps.com/everest_exhibit.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some items are just jaw dropping :shock:

[the Alpinestamps link looks to have gone but I have left the links just in case]
http://alpinestamps.com/images/everest_exhibit/page02.jpg

http://alpinestamps.com/images/everest_exhibit/page03.jpg

http://alpinestamps.com/images/everest_exhibit/page04.jpg

The "tractor party" cancel is very rare, only 5-9 known !

40000 covers mailed for the classic one, the most from Darjeeling but some from Tibetan towns.

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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expediti

Post by Catweazle »

maalgard wrote:The other ones are in black or purple.
Are the black ones more scarce/expensive?
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expediti

Post by Catweazle »

I don't think I'll be able to bid on this for a few reasons, so I'll let you others know in case you want a neat bargain! :wink:

https://cgi.ebay.com.au/1924-Mt-Everest-Expedition-John-B-L-N ... 01081552QQ
1924 Everest Expedition PC, at only US$10.50 + $2.50 International post (US = $1.50). Only just under 3 days to go.
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A great price, especially considering this one is AU$552! :shock:
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Catweazle
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expediti

Post by Catweazle »

Finished at: US$38.50

Just curious to know if the winner was a Stampboards member, or just some "John Smith" no one knows?
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by tonymacg »

There's another Base Camp card coming up in the April Delhaye auction

https://www.daviddelhaye.com/en/vente_publique/pays/inde/cartes_postales/2250.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Starting price €50
de Selby lives, and will return
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Kiwidude
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by Kiwidude »

Hi,

I recently bought a handbook called The Postage Stamps & Postal History of Tibet by H.D.S.Haverbeck.There is so much info.At the back of the handbook is the scanned info.Hope it helps.
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If anyone needs help with something. Don't hesitate posting a picture & I'll try help.
There's a Tibet alphabet & pronunciation, Monetary system, postmarks, radio/telegraph stamps.etc

Peter
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by xanthorrea »

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This is on a standard advertising card but as you might note has the Main Base Camp cancel and the Rongbuk Glacier in black. Arnold Waterfall in The Postal History of Tibet (1981) details the cinderellas, their sheet settings and the postal markings. He regards the Main Base camp as the rarity as he had only seen 4 copies in over 40 years of specialisation in the area. This particular card must have resided in a collection in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe from when it was first sent in 1924 until a friend from that country passed it me a couple of years ago. Needless to say I regard it as one of my treasures.
Collects India to 1947, 1911 Coronation Durbar, British Empire, worldwide postal history, Australia used on cover and anything else interesting. I'll think of something more inspiring one day.
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Catweazle
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expediti

Post by Catweazle »

Philanthropist wrote:Spoke with the "Silver Fox" today, who pointed out that covers are more difficult to find, and also that there are several differnt cancels, for various camps at different levels. These all seem to be from the one base camp, does anyone have a cover or different cancellations to display? Regards GOMC 3
They should have had one for the "Death Zone"! That really would've been a hit amongst thematic collectors.

Here's a cover on ebay at the moment, worth a lot more as you say Philanthropist (AU$1,224):
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RRRR-1924-EVEREST-EXPEDITION-YATUNG-TIBET-ENGLAND-/110567596654
I was going to post a picture for the records, but it wouldn't upload to my photobucket account... $$[at]#($)%!
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by Skippy »

Catweazle wrote:
Here's a cover on ebay at the moment, worth a lot more as you say Philanthropist (AU$1,224):
https://cgi.ebay.com.au/RRRR-1924-EVEREST-EXPEDITION-YATUNG-TIBET-ENGLAND-/110567596654
I was going to post a picture for the records, but it wouldn't upload to my photobucket account... $$(at)#($)%!
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Collecting - Stamps, poster stamps and covers that feature Kangaroos.
Wanted: Illustrated Tourist cover of "Waratah Park", Sydney, NSW. Australia
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DaveR
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by DaveR »

Hi.

Just noticed in the newspaper - Capt. John Noel's 1924 film "The Epic of Everest" has been restored and released by the British Film Institute.

Details here - http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/bfi-film-releases/epic-everest - together with a trailer.

Various venues, in the UK, where it will be shown are also listed. I think I'll be going along to The Rheged Centre, Penrith, Cumbria :D

Dave.
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Re: Tibet 1924 Mt Everest Expedition stamps or Cinderellas

Post by jrobb »

Brilliant covers, I've admired them for a few years now. Would love to add one to my collection but at this point in time the price is way out of my range. =)

I'm curious as to why there are swastikas on this issue?

I know that the swastika originated in or around India and had been used as a symbol of good luck, even in western culture, until it was appropriated by the Nazi party sometime in the 1920's - was it incorporated into the stamp design due to its Indian origins (and expedition location) or the stamp designer used it for luck?

Or is there some deeper, more nefarious link? =) :idea:
Interests: collecting worldwide through the 80's and sorting through kiloware!
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