Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 07 Aug 2007 14:50

I seem to have a lot of KGV stamps that I can't find a reference for in the ACSC. Now I know some are transient flaws, etc. and this may well be one of them.

There appears to be a vertical white line parallel to the right frame line. Mmm... downloaded the scan from Photobucket but doesn't show the line too well - I'll load a magnified scan tonight which may help.

sandgroper · Post by **sandgroper** » 07 Aug 2007 16:46

Hi Lakatoi, I can't see the line from the scan but from the rest of the colouring I would say it has passed its use by date and is ready for the scrap heap.

AndrewWalker · Post by **AndrewWalker** » 07 Aug 2007 18:23

There are "heaps" of significant flaws for the 1 1/2 d issue Brusden
White doesn't show (or else it would be a phonebook). Some of
the cracks for instance are extremely rare and are collectible even
if the stamp has a bullet hole through the middle! (reminds me of
some of the coin mis strikes in display at the Mint in Canberra).

I can highly recommend the book at
http://www.philatelybooks.com/show_book.php?isbn=10070&type=1&catid=94
http://www.philatelybooks.com/show_book.php?isbn=10070&type=1&catid=94
I bought earlier this year that deals with electros 1-14. Hopefully
they'll eventually cover the rest!

Andrew

Post by **GlenStephens** » 07 Aug 2007 19:08

AndrewWalker wrote:
... rare and collectible even if the stamp has a bullet hole through the middle!

Hey that sounds just like one on my Rarity Page right now! 8) :

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 07 Aug 2007 21:20

Spectacular "bullet hole" Glen 8)

Here is a slightly better image of the right frame line in the initial post of this thread. Any larger that this, even though it's scanned at 600 dpi, and it starts getting a bit blurry.

Post by **GlenStephens** » 07 Aug 2007 22:03

All I see are toned perfs.

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 07 Aug 2007 22:27

Well I didn't say it was a great stamp and yes, the perfs are pretty badly toned.

The line is clearer on the actual stamp and better under 10X mag. than on a scan.

waroff49 · Post by **waroff49** » 07 Aug 2007 22:40

I've got a few 1½d greens, and the printing on some of them is pretty poor. I don't know why? It may have been the ink used or the paper. To me it looks like there is damage to the right frame either a crack, scratch or wear. I will get out some and have a look if I have something similar. Beyond that I can't help at this time.

waroff49 · Post by **waroff49** » 07 Aug 2007 23:27

I looked through about 40 stamps and found this one which I think is similar. Like your copy, it looks terrible but here goes:

The right frame appears worn and there is a similar buildup of ink on the lines of shading down the RHS. It might be plateable but I don't think it would be worth much,but I'm no expert. I don't have the plating book for the 1½d's.

Post by **GlenStephens** » 07 Aug 2007 23:48

Perhaps Lakatoi you are confusing the forest with the trees. 8)

That little faintest of blur/kiss prints is nothing at all.

HOWEVER horrid toning aside, it *MAY* be the coarse rough paper. Looks possible at least.

Cat $400.

sandgroper · Post by **sandgroper** » 08 Aug 2007 08:34

Hi Lakatoi, can you see if there is a watermark frame line down the right side of the stamp. Ie to see whether the stamp was from the right side of the sheet.

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 08 Aug 2007 09:33

waroff49 wrote: The right frame appears worn and there is a similar buildup of ink on the lines of shading down the RHS. It might be plateable but I don't think it would be worth much,but I'm no expert. I don't have the plating book for the 1½d's.

Bill,

It must have been a bad year for right side perf. toning

Your stamp is very similar to mine if not the same (even the right value tablet details seem similar).

Glen,

Hadn't thought of the rough paper option

Sandgroper,

I will have a look at the back tonight and post the result.

Thanks for all your help - it's what this board is all about 8)

Kaygeevee · Post by **Kaygeevee** » 08 Aug 2007 14:52

Hi Lakatoi 4,

I can't see any palatable flaws on your scan and as sandgroper has mentioned it may be from the right hand side of the sheet where the thickening of the right frames is not uncommon, but they can occur elsewhere on the sheet.

If the crown A wmk. is towards the left side of the stamp (when viewed from the back) you may not see the vertical line but it could still be from the right hand side.

re Very course mesh paper (rough paper) seeing and feeling the stamp is the best way to tell.

David

sandgroper · Post by **sandgroper** » 08 Aug 2007 16:00

Lakatoi, I will see if the attached photo shows a white line similar to your stamp

This is of course a penny red. I have about 30 of these reds with a white line on the right side in different strengths.

So far the best I can get is a comment from Gordon Monk in a Gibbons Auction sale when he said"it is an unexplained phenomenon"

Mod - Dead link deleted

I apologise in advance for the crooked photo!

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 08 Aug 2007 16:52

sandgroper wrote:"it is an unexplained phenomenon"

Sort of like having our own Bermuda Triangle or UFO (Unidentified Philatelic Object).

By the way, speaking of Unidentified Philatelic Objects, there is a fantastic website devoted to these at:

http://home.att.net/~RickScott/Unidentified/Unident.html

waroff49 · Post by **waroff49** » 08 Aug 2007 17:10

Hi 'groper,
Is that 1d red on rough paper ?
Looks like a compartment line down the right too??

sandgroper · Post by **sandgroper** » 08 Aug 2007 17:30

Hi 'groper,
Is that 1d red on rough paper ?
Looks like a compartment line down the right too??

Yes Waroff49 it is rough paper. I don't know why they picked up this line and no one else seems to know

edit comments

the above doesn't make a lot of sense. What I tried to say was that I don't know why these stamps picked up this white line. There must be plenty around so I don't think it scarce but no one seems to know. I do know that all my stamps are right margin so that obviously is part of the equation

waroff49 · Post by **waroff49** » 09 Aug 2007 01:58

I have a similar problem with 1½d reds, single watermark. On some there is a white flaw on the kangaroos hip, on others there is none. On looking at many KGV's I don't think any of the other values show this mark. Yet it doesn't seem to be listed in ACSC. I don't think it is a transient flaw, as so many copies exhibit this mark (for want of a better term).

It is in a similar position to ACSC. 89(18)k, but not as large or well pronounced. It may be an early state or an attempt to repair 89(18)k? But why have I got so many, as this was only on 1 stamp in several different elecros used from Jan23-Jun27. I have more than this sample.

waroff49 · Post by **waroff49** » 09 Aug 2007 03:15

This is weird. In the above post I typed 89 (open brackets) 18 (close brackets) k. And the smiley appeared- weird.... for the 8 close brackets. i.e. 8)

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 09 Aug 2007 14:16

sandgroper wrote:Hi Lakatoi, can you see if there is a watermark frame line down the right side of the stamp. Ie to see whether the stamp was from the right side of the sheet.

Fortunately the watermark is near the centre so the watermark frame line is visible on the far right side (as viewed from the front).

Post by **GlenStephens** » 09 Aug 2007 14:24

waroff49 wrote:

This is weird. In the above post I typed 89 (open brackets) 18 (close brackets) k. And the smiley appeared- weird.... for the 8 close brackets. i.e. 8)

That happended to a post of mine once

The HTML code for 8) is the number 8 and a close backet

so you need to type it like this

8 )

as if the are touching together you get a smiley!

sandgroper · Post by **sandgroper** » 09 Aug 2007 16:56

Fortunately the watermark is near the centre so the watermark frame line is visible on the far right side (as viewed from the front).

Hi Lakatoi, like your photo on the other post! Well your stamp is like mine then right hand side of the sheet. I am trying with a couple of experts to work out what has happened. It seems to be a recurrent flaw however. Does your stamp white line look similar to mine?

ken

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 09 Aug 2007 21:29

sandgroper wrote:Does your stamp white line look similar to mine?

Ken,

Not really that similar as your "line" goes through the emu's tail (I also have a couple similar to yours).

There is quite a fairly clear vertical line (though the scans don't show it well) parallel to the right outer frame. It's probably clearest in the scan at the outer frame near the right value tablet.

The closest thing to it that I can see in ACSC is 89(15)ib but it isn't that one since mine is the green not red printing and it isn't the sub-cliche.

sandgroper · Post by **sandgroper** » 09 Aug 2007 22:01

Lakatoi, I should have mentioned that with the 30 odd stamps that I have with this line the position of the line varies from the emu's tail to the head. It isn't in one constant place

ken

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 09 Aug 2007 22:31

Ken,

Understood, but the vertical line in my one is at the very right outer frame edge near the print limit and it in fact looks more like a vague vertical scratch.

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 30 Aug 2007 21:35

Another one requiring help from the experts:

KGV 1d. with top frame line issues (including top of crown) plus a flaw at the right base of KGV's head (couldn't find it in the ACSC):

mobbor · Post by **mobbor** » 05 Sep 2007 17:20

Re top frame & back of neck flaws- these are not constant.

josto · Post by **josto** » 06 Sep 2007 07:40

Hi!

I`m new here but I have so many questions about australian stamps!!!

I found so many KGV stamps with little errors, but I don`t know, if these are plateerrors or only casual errors!? Perhaps you can tell me more about this!? Will these errors raise the price of the stamps?

Here is the first example! I found this error on three stamps!

Thanks

josto

MargoZ · Post by **MargoZ** » 06 Sep 2007 07:51

Hi Josto- welcome to the board and thanks for your first post.
Could I suggest that you post a quick note of introduction on our rollcall board?
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=37
Also, you might want to set up an avatar- there are instructions if you need a hand [at] http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=67
Cheers
Margo

The Pom · Post by **The Pom** » 06 Sep 2007 08:18

Hi Josto,
I have a couple of examples of this variety, so it is a constant flaw. Might be worth a dollar or two each.
Cheers
The Pom

josto · Post by **josto** » 06 Sep 2007 08:32

Hi!

Thanks fot the information! Can you tell me what these stripes are, especially in the left one?

Greetings

The Pom · Post by **The Pom** » 06 Sep 2007 09:23

They are called Tin Shed flaws. They are caused by streaks of gum being on the front side of the paper before the stamp is printed. When the stamp is soaked off the envelope, the gum streaks dissolve, taking the ink with them.
Some nice ones here:
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=1811&highlight=rusted

mobbor · Post by **mobbor** » 06 Sep 2007 15:26

Josto
Re your 2d's with irregular shading in front of the king's beard. They have been plated at 11R4. As a minor flaw it's not listed (with a price) in the specialist catalogue & it has no particular value on it's own. However a collection of plate flaws major & minor is another matter.
My reference for the plating is Parsons & Sandy,"Commonwealth of Australia. The George V Twopence Die 1". It's available from a number of dealers.

rolin · Post by **rolin** » 06 Sep 2007 17:45

Hi jojo, found this link as well. I am sure you will get here more informations than I could give you on our board.

josto · Post by **josto** » 06 Sep 2007 18:33

I think this could be interesting for you an me in questions about australian stamps!!!

josto · Post by **josto** » 08 Sep 2007 22:14

Hi!

Could you perhaps help me with these two KGVs!? The first red 1 1/2 one is Wmk CofA! It has a flaw at the right side, I marked it! I showed it to a friend and he watched in an ACSC, but he could not find it. Is it a recognized plate flaw? If yes, could you tell me how it`s called and how the price could be!?

The second stamp, a red-brown 1 1/2 KGV with 3rd Wmk has an interesting flaw at the right number! Is this one already recognized?

Thanks for looking!

josto

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 09 Sep 2007 17:59

Josto,

I had a quick look at the ACSC and couldn't see either of these flaws. The 1 1/2 red does look like scratch on the electro of some sort.

mobbor · Post by **mobbor** » 09 Sep 2007 19:26

Hello again.
The red 1 1/2d is die 2- I can't tell the perforation from the scan- but it is a listed flaw. It's either 91 or 92 (4)g, described as 'spear' in emu's back, and priced at $10 or $8.
The brown is die 1. In the king george's there is only one type of single watermark so there is no need to say type 3 or whatever. This stamp is not listed, but well could have been- the listings are a bit arbitrary. It's plated as 5A R13 & would be worth a few bucks for anyone looking for it.

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 10 Sep 2007 01:27

Oops with the red

Mobbor is right on the money 91,92(4)j "Spear in Emu's back"

Thomasgun esq · Post by **Thomasgun esq** » 18 Sep 2007 11:42

I do apologise if I have placed this query in the wrong thread. I do recall reading something about this on another thread , however I cannot seem to locate it now. Is the below stamp pictured one of these stamps?. It appear that the r/h side is a little skew to my eyes or is it just my eyes????.

Kindest regards

Thomas

mobbor · Post by **mobbor** » 18 Sep 2007 19:42

ThomasgunEsq.
Unfortunately this is just badly centred. It almost ruins the appearance of what would otherwise be a very nice stamp.

Apparently when whole sheets were perforated this badly they were often perforated OS for government use.

Some value may apply to stamps that were centred so badly that parts of a neighbouring stamp were included.

Post by **GlenStephens** » 18 Sep 2007 22:30

The 1/4d as well as being appalingly centred appears thinned as well.

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 19 Sep 2007 01:27

That has to be one of the worst centred KGV's I have seen

- not surprised they used it for OS use.

A real pity because the colouring is one of the nicest on all the KGV issues.

josto · Post by **josto** » 19 Sep 2007 20:17

Hi!

Can anybody tell me how to identify line perforation clearly!? Is it only the different Per. corners or are there other hints?

Thanks a lot

josto

waroff49 · Post by **waroff49** » 19 Sep 2007 23:32

Hi Josto, if this is a general question referring to the ½d and 1d , 5d KGV -green, red and chestnut. The corners are one way but the best is a good perforation guide such as the Instanta, made by Stanley Gibbons.
The comb perfs are 14.25 The single line perf is 14.2

There is reference to it in other threads and a comparison of the two, side by side.

Thomasgun esq · Post by **Thomasgun esq** » 21 Sep 2007 12:38

Just thought I share this nice strip of four 1 pence green on un-watermarked paper. Is there a chance that the last stamp of the four has a runny N (last N in Penny) variety on it?.

Kindest regards

Thomas

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 21 Sep 2007 13:07

I don't have access to my reference books at the present but from memory the "Run N" variety is much more pronounced and is found in various worsening states.

sandgroper · Post by **sandgroper** » 21 Sep 2007 15:21

Hi Thomasgun esq. The run variety refers to the N in one not the N's in penny. A very nice block however.

mobbor · Post by **mobbor** » 21 Sep 2007 17:23

Run N in the no watermark state actually has 3 flaws-
flaw below N of ONE,
flaw in bottom right corner
white triangular flaw in bottom left corner ( in the coloured band) of the right value shield.

I can't see too much on the 2nd N of Penny on your stamp- is it a small line like a tail in the base of the 2nd downstroke?
If so I can't find any reference to it.

Kaygeevee · Post by **Kaygeevee** » 22 Sep 2007 08:24

Hi Thomasgun esq

The 1d Green strip of four that you have posted here is from Pane 8 showing stamps 33 to 36.

The flaw at the base of the 2nd N of "PENNY" is not a constant variety.

David

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