Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

A *LARGE* percentage of stamp collectors also collect various numismatic areas. This is YOUR little corner of the board to ask questions, seek advice, check values, and chat. Please join in!

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Re: Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs". Discuss here

Post by CHzug1291 »

Thank you James, all sorted!
Please let me know when you get the pages!
Kind regards

Peter
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Re: Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs". Discuss here

Post by CHzug1291 »

jbiao wrote: 24 Jun 2023 19:57
Hi Peter,

James Biao here. As discussed over email, I'd like 10 boxes. Thank you
What a great start jbiao ......your 100 pages are on the way!
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Re: Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs". Discuss here

Post by CHzug1291 »

What began 12 years ago, with slowly turning my desires to have my PNC's displayable, safe and protected in my collection, has come on the market early this year, starting for the standard size.

Believing in my product and dreaming of a system which is pleasing the whole PNC collectors is available now
for anyone, who is looking for the perfect solution!
LIGHT HORSE® will become the leading storage solution in Australia!

After 6 months trading, I know can offer the LIGHT HORSE®PNC Album page for all 3 issued sizes by Australia Post.

Standard size ( Green Box) for covers 190 mm (w) x 110 mm (h)
(will be in stock end of September)


Box.jpg
Sydney Stamp Exhibition 2011  31.jpg

C 5 size Red Box 230 mm (w) x 162 mm (h)

Red Box C5.jpg
Commonwealth Banknote.jpg
DL size Blue Box 220 mm (w) x 110 mm (h)

Blue Box DL.jpg
DL Front.jpg


Additional to be able to offer the " full package" there will be the LIGHT HORSE®PNC binder with slipcase
to house 30 album pages.

If you have any questions, I am happy to answer it here!
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Re: Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs". Discuss here

Post by CHzug1291 »

James Biao, thank you very much for your order.

I hope, meanwhile you have your PNC's in the pages and all sorted?
LIGHT HORSE® complete.jpg
LH Trolly.jpg
Please let me know, if you have any questions.

Kind regards

Peter
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Re: Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs". Discuss here

Post by grizzle61 »

HELLO EVERYBODY :lol:
OMG yes i am here at at last ,
You may not know me but i'm sure over time you will.
I am of course a serious PNC collector and i have bought afew of these Light horse PNC Albums pages that Chzug1291 has produced , but me having over 800 PNCs its a bit hard to supply pages for every PNC i own , so I buy these for the more special PNCs , like " Impressions range " or " Limited Editions " , or " overprinted PNCs ".

So lets get the ball rolling
Steve
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Re: Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs". Discuss here

Post by grizzle61 »

this is currently how i store my PNCs , I know you can't see much thats probably because the PNCs are inside these , stored in either " Light Horse " Pages or in " Grande 2s " Pages
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Re: Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs". Discuss here

Post by CHzug1291 »

Hi Steve, nice to see you here on Stampboards :D

You should actually tell the members in your group, that they can also take a membership on this board!
This would activate the Theme " Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs. Discuss here"


This is really the Birth place of the LIGHT HORSE®PNC Album pages......starting in the year 2011

Over the last years, this thread has become an orphan....with only me still using it!

I am sure, with a little push from here and there, this site has a lot of room to grow!

Who would have ever thought back in 2011, that Peter Zimmermann's PNC album pages will on day
become Australia's best system to store and display the beloved Australian PNC's!

LIGHT HORSE® is stocking now all 3 formats, which are issued in Australia and to finalize the range,
I am awaiting now the LIGHT HORSE® branded albums with slipcase!

Astounding also is, that compared to the male dominated Stamp collectors, the female PNC collectors percentage
is about 37% +

I hope to see many new members here and I am looking forward to discuss all and everything PNC
here in this thread!


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Re: Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs". Discuss here

Post by grizzle61 »

Thankyou for the warm welcome Peter
So i received my 3 boxes of " DL " Sized PNC pages and i'm so happy that i used 28 of the 30 pages, These Pages bring out the beauty in the PNCs they enhance the look of them so much , For the ultimate protection these are what everybody should get , this is just 4 that i have put in
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Light Horse PNC album pages

Post by Marshall13 »

I would like to take a moment of your time to mention that I have now found the ultimate PNC storage page's that are the absolute best pages I have found on the market..These album page's offer the best protection for your PNC collection . Some may have heard of Light Horse PNC album pages created by Mr Peter Zimmermann..I will never use another page and happy that my entire PNC collection is safely stored forever.

I hear word that Light Horse has also got albums coming out soon..if anyone has any information on the albums any information is appreciated..thanks heaps
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Re: Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs". Discuss here

Post by CHzug1291 »

World First for the PNC Collector's Community


AUSTRALIAN POSTAL NUMISMATIC COVERS


(PNCS)
Fully Comprehensive Catalog & Guide
By Greg McDonalds Publishing finally released on the market
Founder of the the national Australian Coin & Banknote Magazine in 1996
PNC Catalogue A.jpg

PNC Catalog b.jpg
What the Brusden & White Specialized catalogues are for the stamp collectors, now we have for the PNC Collectors the Specialized Catalogue, which shows every PNC issued by Australia Post since beginning with all the in depth Information!

Power is Knowledge


- including all Limited Editions from Stamp + Coin Exhibitions
- ANDA
- APTA

Congratulations to Greg McDonalds for 14 months of his time and also Steve Ross for his help to achieve this
Milestone with his knowledge and providing Greg with a great number of pictures from his collection.

The cost of the First Edition Handbook is A$ 49.50 + postage and available from Steve Ross,
https://www.facebook.com/groups/pnccollectorsaustralia
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Re: Philatelic Numismatic Covers or "PNCs". Discuss here

Post by Global Admin »

Yes a great book -- Greg kindly mailed me one - and good value for that retail price 456 pages at only 10c a page or so!



Greg McDonald 2023 “Essential Reference" Australian Philatelic and Numismatic Covers 1st Edition


The information contained in this 456 page book is as diverse as the issues themselves.

The Essential Reference Guide to Postal Numismatic Covers (PNCs) - By Greg McDonald Publishing

The aim of this book is to offer the collector, investor or historian more than just a date, mintage figure and a current retail price.

This book is to help collectors catalogue what they already have and identify similar issues that are missing from their collections.

In designing the layout of this book, considerable effort has been given to noting the variations through explanations and images.

As far as possible, this has been done in a non-technical way in an effort to encourage the novice.

900+ Individual listings and valuations
Over 400 never before published PNC's
456 pages



I just reduced the price of this group to $A80 today and oddly that one is oddly NOT listed in McDonald -

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by Justin »

Who defines what is or isn't a PNC?

Is it an international philatelic/numismatic body?
Is it the issuing postal authority?
Is it the private stamp/coin dealer company that issues their own pncs?
The catalogue publisher?
Is it the collector?

Here's an article published on Australia Post's website 23 June 2016. (https://australiapostcollectables.com.au/articles/how-to-spot-genuine-australia-post-pnc)
For collectors, whether of sports memorabilia, literature, art, stamps or coins and more, part of making a sound investment depends on whether the purchased item is genuine. The disappointment of taking something to a dealer for valuation, only to find it’s a ‘fake’ (and therefore worth nothing), is not something anyone wants to experience, if they can avoid it.

In 1994, Australia Post started releasing a postal numismatic cover (PNC) as part of a number of stamp issues each year, with coins from the Perth Mint and the Royal Australian Mint. At times, non-genuine products manage to slip into circulation. So, for collectors who specifically collect PNCs, or for those who like to collect all products associated with a particular stamp issue, we thought it would be useful to outline how to spot ‘the real thing’.


1. Year of issue and issue number
Since 2008, all Australia Post PNCs carry the year of issue and issue number on the back. The numbering is not always chronological, and on some products an alphabetic letter may be included alongside the number.

Beautiful Butterflies PNC (2016), with year and issue number
Beautiful Butterflies PNC (2016), with year and issue number
Insert card from the Christmas Island Christmas (2015) special edition PNC, with letter as part of the issue number
Insert card from the Christmas Island Christmas (2015) special edition PNC, with letter as part of the issue number
2. Seal of authenticity
Since 2008, all Australia Post PNCs carry a seal of authenticity (security sticker) on the back, indicating that it is genuine Australia Post merchandise. The sticker says “Authentic Merchandise” and also includes its own unique identification code.

Centenary of WWI: 1916 stamp and coin cover, with security sticker
Centenary of WWI: 1916 stamp and coin cover, with security sticker
3. Check Australian stamp catalogue listings
A list of previously issued PNCs is available in Australian stamp catalogues. For a list of PNCs issued between 1994 and 2014 (including images), see Stamps of Australia (Renniks Publications). For an unillustrated list up to 2010, see The Australasian Stamp Catalogue (Seven Seas Stamps). These catalogues are updated on an ad-hoc basis by the publishers.

Current Australia Post PNCs can be purchased online, at participating Post Offices and via mail order on 1800 331 794, while stocks last.
Doesn't really define what a pnc is.

Philatelic Numismatic Cover. Three words containing four components.

Philatelic. Usually means a stamp and also a postmark needs to be present.
Numismatic. Gotta have a coin in there somewhere. Legal tender. From a real country.
Cover. All of the above contained in or on an envelope.

Does the coin and stamp(s) and postmark all have to come from the same country? (From what I have seen - No)

Does it have to be a genuine stamp? Hoo boy. Here's where AP have started to become very .... malleable .... with things.

About 10 years ago they began adding coin inserts to pre-printed envelopes (PPE) and calling those "pnc"s too. No stamp, but a 'postage paid' indica instead. Does this still fall under 'philatelic'? I personally don't collect PPE's, so I ignored those ones.

Then, when the MyStamps range came out at the end of 2019, AP started printing pictures of stamps and postmarks as part of the design onto envelopes. MyStamps come in two types - what Colnect calls "personalised-private" and "personalised-official". Except any cover that comes from AP that looks like it has a ("personalised-official") MyStamp design on it, doesn't. That's an image of a stamp (and the postmark too) printed directly onto the envelope as part of the design. If it doesn't have a real stamp on it, is this also a PPE? They don't stay 'postage paid', but rather have the country and a face value, just like a stamp would.

For me personally, if it doesn't have a proper stamp on it, I don't want it.

What about you all? Where's your line that you won't cross?
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by grizzle61 »

Gday all

I was reading your posts here and i came across Justin's message.
Lets start with the word " Philately "

it means " the collecting of stamps and other postal matter as a hobby or an investment. the study of postage stamps, revenue stamps, stamped envelopes, postmarks, postal cards, covers, and similar material relating to postal or fiscal history " I made the last sentence bold because i would like you to see that " Philately " covers everything postal related, if the image of a stamp is printed on the envelope then, or any postal body uses a prepaid envelope then it is all covered by the word " Philately ", I don't think there are many collectors like that Aust Post decided its cheaper to print a stamp on the envelope but it is the sign of the times , the world changes

Who defines what is or isn't a PNC? ( Philatelic Numismatic Cover ) " Who " defines it . In the end Collectors/Philatelic & Numismatic originations/Clubs/Dealers , Aust post they all define it .
Honestly i don't know if i answered any of your questions , I'm just a old bloke that loves PNCs and collects them

As for " Global Admin " This guide book only covers PNCs . all those pictures of " World Youth day " covers are PMC's ( Philatelic Medallion Covers ), there has not been enough interest in medallions to warrant adding them to a PNC guide book as yet, But i am sure as time goes on these and all the other types of covers ( Pins, Mini Medals, Patches and Badges ) will be added in time now that Greg has opened the flood gate, This is only the " First Edition ", Someone needs to record every Medallion/Badge/Pin/Patch/Medals and photograph these and then put them into a spreadsheet of some type ( Like i listed every Australian AP/Show/Club/Overprinted PNC i could find and then photographed my owned PNC's ) and submit them to a author.

I am the owner of the Facebook below and i run it with a good Friend and amazing members, its not a buy and sell group it is a show and tell with up to date info on all things related to PNCs/PMCs/PBCs and other items attached to a first date cover

https://www.facebook.com/groups/pnccollectorsaustralia
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by CHzug1291 »

Great explanation grizzle61

As a part of your question, Justin,
Besides Australia Post PNC's I collect also the Australian themed PNC covers from Switzerland,
which have been issued by PHILSWISS, Rickenbach, Switzerland, starting 1984 to 2013.
This company made covers from countries all over the world, using on each cover motives from the
particular country, the matching stamp with local postmark and obviously either a coin or a banknote.

Over this years they had a pretty good run.
The business was operating as a mail-order business eg: WWF also Switzerland/Oberaegeri, Franklin Mint and others.

Sadly there is very little information about PHILSWISS on the Internet.

The only information on Google is a company named SIEGER which still sells PHILSWISS albums.
https://www.briefmarken-sieger.de/zubehoer/briefmarken-zubehoer/ringbinder/philswiss/

After discussions held with my Swiss collector friends, it is believed that PHILSWISS released from every
new design 2000 units!

PNC collecting in Europe as a whole is not very popular.
Finding especially the 12 "Australian themed" issues
is very hard................the are rare as hens teeth!

I guess, I am very lucky, as I have still collector friends in my old home country who keep an eye out for me.
whenever they find "Coin-covers" from Oz, while they are out and about,
going to the the stamp-club-meetings on weekends they will buy them and send them to me !

Australian Antarctic Territory 2 Cent coin
AAT 2 Cents.jpg
Christmas Islands 5 Cents
Christmas Island  5 Cents.jpg
Cocos Islands 10 Cents
AAT 2 Cents.jpg
Nauru 10 Cents
Christmas Island  5 Cents.jpg
Norfolk Islands 20 Cents
Cocos Islands 10 Cents.jpg


Australien Kangaroo 1 Dollar 1985
Australia 1 Dollar.jpg
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by CHzug1291 »

PHILSWISS PNC's part II

Kangaroo containing 1 Dollar 1 ounce Silver Coin 1993 " Australia's National Animal"
Kangaroo 1 Ounce Silver.jpg

Kangaroo mob containing 1 Dollar Banknote and 1 Dollar 1 ounce Silver Coin

Issued 1994


Kangaroo-mob 1 Silver and 1$ Banknote.jpg
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by Justin »

Usually, I don't mess with pncs. I buy them and am done. Except for the stampless MyStamp ones, but that's another story....

Anyway, I got this one and saw that that cancel doesn't tie the stamp to the cover. Unsatisfied with this, uh, 'poor quality control' I sent it to Philatelic Bureau and asked if they could rectify this. Hence the additional black postmark. It was a once-only thing.
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by snappa22 »

PNCs are a blight on the hobby of philately. They are primarily numismatic, not philatelic, and in my view a mere marketing tool, like the Franklin Mint of old. They are beyond the financial resources of the average and burgeoning (young) collector. They are subject to market manipulation by the creators - Australia Post, the Perth Mint and the Australian Mint - and the dealers and vendors who onsell them with exorbitant markups - markups that are the result of unwarranted, extremely low print numbers - often in the order of 100-200 copies - and forced lotteries. This is a disgraceful trend.

I started collecting Australia Post first day covers, pre-stamped envelopes and souvenir covers in 1968, after I took over my father's small collection of FDCs from the early 1950s when he was a postie and telegram boy. I packed them away in the early 90s and returned to collecting in 2022. In March 2024 I was made aware of the scandal that is the PNCs market when, out of general interest, I sought to buy an attractive Space-themed cover illustrated in Stamp Bulletin #388.

When I phoned Australia Post they told me I could not purchase the copy unless I travelled to the Perth Stamp and Coin Show on Friday, 8 March 2024 and stood in line in the hope of getting one of the 150 available copies, with a RRP $35. I was shocked when the following Monday the cover appeared on eBay with three others in a set retailing for a price of $440! What a disgrace, that philately in Australia should come to this.

My thoughts on this issue are expanded in the following blog: https://michaelorganresearch.blogspot.com/2024/03/the-australia-post-australia-in-space.html
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by Justin »

Hello, I checked out your blog. I disagree on there being 4 'cover variants' of that space pnc.

Variant #1. This is just an image of the insert. The bulletin didn't even show any images of the cover.

Variant #2. As #1 don't exist, this is the real 'variant #1'

Variant #3. Doesn't exist. Someone just copied and pasted Australia Post Shop's digital mock-ups from when they had the product on their site. It wasn't up for long, maybe 2 weeks? Front of the cover shown.... and the reverse is of the insert.

Variant #4. This should be 'variant #2'.

I also think that some show products are getting too expensive on the secondary market.
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by footystamps »

This PNC has been making a splash on facebook.

It has been privately made and debate is raging about private v official (EG Australia Post) PNCs as well as the cost of the cover at $295 at Eureka Coins.

The cover is postmarked at Yaralumba LPO as was the first private PNC. (PM not as shown in the image)

The stamp is a 7 1/2d coronation issue. (predecimal and therfore not a valid stamp for postage)

My questions are "can a PNC be valid if it does not have a valid stamp?" "Would you buy it?' "" Do the covers need to be produced by Australia Post to be collectable?" etc
yaralumba.jpg
Last edited by BigSaint on 06 Jun 2024 17:31, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Place in line used to remove word attachments
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by BigSaint »


Wouldn't pay $2.95 for it.

Postmark looks dodgy. What date is on it? Is Yarralumba a typo? Or do you mean Yarralumla?
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by footystamps »

Sorry about my spelling.
The postmark seems legitimate but is on a predecimal stamp which is now obsolete.
The other cover is claimed as the original Private PNC. There is one for sale on ebay for AU $2,185.00
or Best Offer.
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by BigSaint »


Footy Stamps, thanks for the updated & better images but I still wouldn't pay $2.95 for it.

Now all we have to do is fix your "attachments".

When posting an image here is what you need to do so the word attachments does not appear. It is not meant to be there.

You need to click on your post where you want the image to go then click on the place in line button:


Place in Line
Place in Line
You will find it below:


File Comment Box
File Comment Box
It is also recommended that you place a brief description on the file comment box.

I did fix your previous post & thought you would take the hint, but alas no.

Thank you for your co-operation.

Brad for the Moderators :)
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by footystamps »

Thanks Brad
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by BigSaint »


As for the "Yarralumla" PNC being Australia's first PNC, it is about three years late:
BigSaint wrote: 05 May 2015 23:30
rochan2010 wrote:
BigSaint wrote:rochan2010, I don't think you are correct. I am sure I have PNC covers dated 14th February 1966, the date Australia changed to decimal currency. When I find then I will post them here.

Brad :)
Ok Brad, look forward to seeing those :)
I have only been able to find one of mine so far:
Image
Image
I have a couple of others somewhere I just can't seem to find them. Anyhow there is this one of the 25c bird with the 2c coin. I don't know who did these or what combinations of stamps & coins were done. However the ones I have seen were done on 14th February 1966, the day Australia changed to decimal currency. As this is numbered "011" they may be a limited edition.

Brad :)


https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=11726&start=41
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by BigSaint »

ewen s wrote: 06 May 2015 23:40
BigSaint wrote:rochan2010

I have found 3 US ones that are similar in design:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/First-Day-of-Issue-John-F-Kennedy-St ... 316wt_1153
Seller's image of course

If someone has a snipping tool (unfortunately I don't) they might be kind enough to copy this ebay auction onto the thread.

Brad :)
Image

https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=11726&start=48
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by footystamps »

2023 and 2024 AFL PNCs Postmarks for Gold Coast Suns
In 2023 Gold Coast Suns PO is Brisbane QLD 4000
In 2023 Gold Coast Suns PO is Brisbane QLD 4000
In 2024 Gold Coast Suns PO is Brisbane VIC 4000
In 2024 Gold Coast Suns PO is Brisbane VIC 4000
Perhaps Australia Post (and the AFL) is unaware of where the Gold Coast is. It is not part of Brisbane and Brisbane is certainly not in Victoria.

It is the sixth largest city in Australia with a population of more than 743 thousand people. It is only smaller than the mainland state capitals.

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BigSaint
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Re: Australia Philatelic Numismatic Covers or 'PNC's. Discuss here!

Post by BigSaint »


Good pick up footystamps.

The Gold Coast Suns, officially the Gold Coast Football Club, is a professional Australian rules football club that competes in the Australian Football League (AFL). The club is based on Queensland's Gold Coast in the suburb of Carrara, Qld, postcode 4211.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Coast_Suns


Pity they are drawing the stamps on the PNCs.
Specialist Collector of World Horse Racing Covers, Melbourne Cup & Kentucky Derby, & JFK fdcs.
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