Entire Heaven!

Whether we own them or not we all love LOOKING at philatelic Gems and goodies. Add your favourites today. Add your comments WHY this stamp or cover or item is superb or unusual. Or lift them from an auction site to share with other members, if that does not breach their copyright notice.

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Lakatoi 4
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Entire Heaven!

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Entire's - now there's a new thread!! :D

Here's a couple of my early Italia to kick it off! 8)

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Post by admin »

Great Thread!

Hope others share their early covers. 8)

I loaded this historic little gem up on my rarity page recently:

https://www.glenstephens.com/rarity.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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1840 - the THIRD day of the GB 'Penny Post' cover: A lovely turned entire. Clear Hadeigh and London Jan 13 + 14th 1840 cancels. (3rd + 4th day of Penny Post use) + manuscript '1'. VERY rare early use. January 11 use is cat £500 = $A1,250. Lovely clean condition - a rare piece of stamp history, that of course predates the May "Penny Back" issue that made the Penny Post even more popular. $A150

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

It's been awhile since the last post on this one so why not push it up the ladder a bit 8)

I'm sure lots of collectors have some of these lurking around (perhaps not quite knowing what to do with them) :!:

I posted these entires from France dated 1859 & 1867 with one opened out in another thread so it is appropriate to post them here as well.

One of them is addressed to Chateau Thierry which was to become the location of much bloodshed in WW1 as the link below shows:

https://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/ct_dm.htm

Please feel free to add yours to this post :wink:


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Post by crosscrescent »

Lakatoi4,

Sorry but I am not familiar with the terminology "entire". Can you please shed some light on this so that we can learn a little more about this part of philately. Thanks.

Trying to learn something. Cheers
Andrew

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Andrew,

Some definitions:

Entire - A complete postal item (i) Before the use of envelopes, letters were written on a four-page piece of note-paper. An entire is that part bearing the address, without pages 3 and 4 (bearing the letter or part of the letter) still attached. (ii) After the use of envelopes, an envelope complete with the letter and any adhesives.

Entire letter - The entire letter of pre-envelope type, complete with address and message.

My initial post shows type's from Italy which really relate to item (i) above as there is no message (the other pages are all missing).

Both of those from France are the Entire Letter types where the message is on the same sheet as the address and stamp.
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Post by crosscrescent »

Lakatoi 4,

Thanks for the explanation.

Cheers
Andrew

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Post by gavin-h »

Lakatoi 4 wrote:
I posted these entires from France dated 1859 & 1867


I didn't know you were that old... :wink:

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Oops,

My secret's out, yes I'm a Time Lord (The Doctor's long lost illegitimate brother actually :shock: )


You should see my mint collection of early Mauritius covers (yes, they were chucking them out straight after the Governor's ball) and the rest of the sheet of yellow Tre Skilling Banco stamps (they were about to burn them so I bribed a printer's assistant in Sweden for those).

I could go on and on and on......well to the end of eternity really 8)

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Post by gavin-h »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post by crosscrescent »

Lakatoi 4,

You are a scream.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Cheers
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Post by stamper »

This January 1801 Entire- Letter is from a Mr Duncan of 22 Queen St
to a Mr Witherspoon in Nth Queensferry Edinburgh.

A Fee of 3d was paid to the Coachman to deliver it.

Image

The message inside is regarding meeting up to pay off a debt.

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Nice Stamper 8)

Got anymore :?:

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Post by stamper »

No Lakatoi that is one of those items I was going to add to
uppercanadians " you don't REALLY collect it but.....can't part with it thread."
I find entires hard to store and very delicate to view.
I hope you, or others contribute more for us all to look at though.

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Post by brian31stamps »

Lakatoi 4 wrote:Nice Stamper 8)

Got anymore :?:
Hi Tony - great thread - here's one of my early entires

Opened rear view
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Folded as mailed
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Opened fron view showing actual letter
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This entire mailed on 25th November 1843 used a 1d red imperforate cancelled with a maltese cross. Notice that the full address is Mr Higgs Esq, Burley. Obvoiusly not too many Higgs around in Burley back then.

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Post by GJ50 »

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Tunisia to Paris in 1877 [ French Post Office]

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Again French PO in Tunisia.

Lastly the Italian Post Office in Tunisia.

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Some superb examples of real history here. 8)

Stamps are great, covers tell more of the story, but to get the real deal you can't beat the message within :!:

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Post by lake090 »

Hi Lakatoi 4
Here is an 1862 entire. Report by private friend posted to Royal Mint for insurance.
What might be it's value?
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Post by crosscrescent »

I have put this on another thread to try to get some translation but I guess it won't harm to put it here.

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The other side of the entire when unfoled.
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The reverse side of the totally unfolded entire.
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Post by Eric Casagrande »

Wow .. those Italian and French covers / entires, are really the coolest. You almost make me want to start a collection myself.

Like I don't have my money going in enough directions already. :D

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Post by crosscrescent »

Wouldn't mind if someone can tell me the gist of the rather lengthy contents of this entire. Thanks.

The front with the stamp and date cancellations.

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The following pages in sequence:

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Image

Image

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Post by stamper »

I can't read the writing inside my ones either crosscrescent
...Despite mine being written in English.
I still find it really interesting to try though.

This is an entire Sent from Manchester to Liverpool in 1849

Image

This one seems to refer to wanting an invoice for the sale of goods.

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Post by crosscrescent »

Stamper,

I like that gorgeous writing.

Cheers
Andrew

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Post by dporter-stamps »

The first two arn't complete entires, just the front.

Can anyone shed any light on them ?

I can only read the contents of some of them.


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Post by Shrug »

The 2nd one down has a Passed Field Censor mark on it by Field Censor no 920.

Mail was read by a censor before being passed along so that secrets, troop movements etc were not deliberately or accidentally leaked in mail home etc.

Don't know much else about these.

The hand illustrated 1d lilac cover is quite nice!

I see there are a few interesting destinations including Seville, Spain & Toulouse France.

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Post by dporter-stamps »

Shrug

I dont know very much about these myself, though they do make interesting reading, every so often one or two turn up in lots i receive, they just get thrown into a shoebox (to get sorted, sometime !!)

The 1d lilac is only a 'front' unfortunatly, have seen some lovely hand drawn covers over this last few years.

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Post by iomoon »

Some interesting stuff.
C.J. Hambro & son were merchant bankers at 70 Old Broad St.

I collect Volcanos on stamps

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Post by Shrug »

dporter-stamps wrote:Shrug

I dont know very much about these myself, though they do make interesting reading, every so often one or two turn up in lots i receive, they just get thrown into a shoebox (to get sorted, sometime !!)

The 1d lilac is only a 'front' unfortunatly, have seen some lovely hand drawn covers over this last few years.

David
Agreed, some old letters contain interesting content and are worth a read if you can decipher them. The hand illustrated covers are always interesting and were a true sign of the times.

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Post by dporter-stamps »

heres on i found it a cat. its priced at £350, nice though

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Post by Shrug »

That one is nice too. I've often thought of forming a small collection of hand illustrated covers and may do someday as an interesting sideline.

Mulready covers are also nice along with the various caricatures that exist.

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Post by iomoon »

There is a book devoted to them.

British Pictorial envelopes of the 19th century by
Bodily, Jarvis and Hahn
Published by the Collectors Club of Chicago.

I collect Volcanos on stamps

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Post by Shrug »

There are actually several good books dedicated to these. The main problem with these is that the uniqueness of many of these makes them difficult to price in the real world.

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Post by iomoon »

I would not disagree.
However, some artists and themes dictate a higher price than others.
They appear to appeal to a wider audience than strictly philatelic subjects.

I collect Volcanos on stamps

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Post by iomoon »

And, I forgot to add, mass-produced, computer-printed, first day covers, which I loathe.

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Post by Shrug »

I aren't particularly fond of first day covers either excepting the obvious like QV stamps etc found on cover from first day of use.

The mass produced deliberate first day of use types have no interest to me whatsoever. They are just another way for the post offices to take more money off collectors.

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Post by crosscrescent »

I'm assuming this qualifies as an entire. Any comments, translation and corrections (as to whether this is an entire or not) are welcome.

The cover with stamp


Image

Back of entire

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Inside of entire (top half)

Image

Inside of entire (bottom half)
Image

Cheers
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Post by gavin-h »

Andrew,

From the Top Half of the inside, the printed word "Erbschein" means "Letters of Administration".

From the Bottom Half, "Amtsgericht" is "District Court".

The blue handstamp is for "Preuss." = "Prussian" District Court in Cassel.

Beyond that, the detail is all hand-written, and I struggle terribly with this old script (I can just about read the date!). I'm sure I recall one of our German-based members can read this pretty well, so hopefully will be able to help further.

Presumably the legal definition of Letters of Administration in Prussia in November and December 1921 was pretty similar to what we understand by the term today.

I think this is purely a legal document and it does not appeat to have any postal connections, but I think this is as good a place as any to record it, and it has enough history and eye-appeal to be of interest to members here.

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Post by crosscrescent »

Gavin,

Thanks for the info. I don't understand a word and can barely make out the date itself. Both my daughter and I like the script though. She likes old manuscripts - something about old paper and old writing.

Cheers

Andrew

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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by sherro »

Here's a nice bump for this thread. In another thread, brummie pointed out that I hadn't posted in here, so here's a few.

Firstly, dated August 1812, to Gloucester, with a manuscript "8" representing 8d postage.

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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by sherro »

Next, my old avatar.

A nice 1d red imperf four margins (just), tied to a legal letter dated 14 Aug 1842 with a lovely crisp Maltese Cross. The reverse has a boxed Falkirk receiving mark with an inverted "4" in 1842.

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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by sherro »

Last for now, a quite late unstamped entire from Leith to Penicuick, dated No 17 1845

A red manuscript "1" for a penny postage and a scarce red "Paid at Edin" date stamp

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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by billlel »

Ive posted these on another thread. They won`t look out of place here.


Image

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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by Brummie »

NICE! Sherro. :wink:

Just a question about the Leith entire, on the handstamp there are two letters one above and one below the date, do they mean anything?

You know I never noticed, well maybe noticed but didn't know :oops: what the number '1' or '2' was on the entire and now I know it was the postage cost :idea:

How good is that to have an inverted 4 in the date stamp? Almost as good as an inverted swan :roll:

Bill, at the begining of this thread there are other designed covers. I wonder how common it was to do that? The ones you show are from different areas and one is signed Jess. Both to the same destination. I wonder who Mr Irwin and Mr Johnson from Chester St were and what business they had for two covers to arrive with designs :?:

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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by sherro »

Brummie, I don't know what the letters represent, and would like some advice from others in the know!
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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

That's to a degree similar to the items in my very first post in this topic and to Andrew's query above. I've had Italian people look at these and unfortunately they are written in a long gone form of Italian that is too hard to decipher except by a specialist in that area.

This also goes for early German - people today just can't read it :!:

So deciphering images would be in the same basket - they are all guesswork :idea:
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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by admin »

Image

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Here is a Golden oldie I just listed for sale at $40 - https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14243" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any guesses as to the name on cover?

This is one from November 28 1822, from Kilmarnock Scotland, to Isleworth Middlesex.

Clean entire and has a crowned "FREE" handstamp on face of December 2 arrival ... indicating the recipient need not pay postage - remember this was the era where pre-paying of letters was not common. Addressed to "The Right Honorable Earl of Cxxxxxx" (Should be Cornwall being based Isleworth - but does not look like the word Cornwall to me!) At first gance i thought it might be Calais.

Has a nice boxed "KILMARNOCK - 427" Mileage Mark strike upon sending, and a nice Glasgow transit of November 29, 1822 and a vermillion "10 O'clock" of December 2. And part of the original red wax seal. Good clean shape for 187 years old. :mrgreen:
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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by jumet »

The Earl of Cafails? Cafield?
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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Could be Cranfield, that family line were Earls of Middlesex and the spelling looks fairly close to a match :idea:
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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by sherro »

The usual etiquette was to address the recipient in full, ending in "Esq" If you look closely, I think Esq is present. That reduces the name, and the closest I could come up with under magnification was Colfox.

A check of Burke's Peerage shows a Colfox, but the current peer is a second Baronet, which is like the 2nd assistant assistant make up person on a B-grade movie, a very minor peer. None of his ancestors were an Earl either.
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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by norvic »

I'm not sure it would have Esq after a title of earl. Sadly googling the location doesn't help either.

Glen, what makes you think it should be Cornwall, for Isleworth? Most members of the aristocracy have titles unrelated to where they reside - Duke of Norfolk, Arundel, Sussex.
Dukes of Devonshire (Cavendish), Chatsworth, Derbyshire, etc.
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Re: Entire Heaven!

Post by tonymacg »

The third letter of the Earl's title looks like the old long 's' to me, so I'd offer 'Earl of Castleton'
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