Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

News items. General trends, new issues, new policies etc. **Whatever** you like. WORLDWIDE. Start a new thread on your question. Please do not discuss ebay in THIS forum as we have a separate and popular Forum for that discussion.

Moderator: Volunteer Moderator Team

Post Reply
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussio

Post by johnrcrow »

I have at hand some play around scans.

Scan of ´rre`of ´Sarre` from various examples of Type I PF A Sarre overprinted Germania postage stamps.
Image

Note.
1. As all are relatively low CV stamps then there is little incentive to forge overprints.
2. All have the PF A flaw (gap in centre black bar).
3. Considerable variation seen on ´rre`.
4. Several have a second flaw involving small piece missing from end of the second ´r`.
5. Study could be handy in assessing ´rre`from other stamps as to ´allowable` variation.
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussio

Post by johnrcrow »

Scan of ´rr`of ´Sarre` from various examples of lower CV 10Pf Sarre overprinted Germania postage stamps.Image

Quite some variation in the ´rr`
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussio

Post by johnrcrow »

Scan of letter front piece showing a variety of Sarre overprinted Germania postage stamps.
Image

Will deal with this in more detail later.

John
User avatar
maptrekker
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
Posts: 2605
Joined: 05 Jul 2009 10:00
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussio

Post by maptrekker »

Excellent close-ups of the 'rr' and 'rre' type.

The variations can be partially explained by the amount of ink applied and old ink adhering to the type.

I think some of the variation can also be explained by the use of existing type with various amounts of wear and tear from previous print jobs. Such flaws would be specific to a single position on a sheet but would still be further modified by the amount of ink applied.

Interesting that I do not see the "slanting r" among these samples.

All in all there is a lot to think about.
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussio

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks for comments map.

Time to take stock of what I have ´discovered´.

Your points on inking density are valid.

This complicates measurements somewhat in that the odd 0.2mm can be added where inking is heavier and so the true measure is overinflated. I cannot imagine how earlier measurements were made (as say defined in Handbook) as the same error`due to over inking must have been present.

There are on some Sarre overprints distinct boundaries seen within any ink spread and these I suppose are the ´true`limits.

The sloping r may be more associated with different types. All the ones shown recently came mainly from Type I stamps. I will look again at some slopers and see whether there is any Type preference.

Here are the measurements made on the letter with there ten stamps shown earlier.
They may illustrate better the over inking measurement problem.



Scan of letter front piece showing a variety of Sarre overprinted Germania postage stamps with measurements.
Image

Measures are left to right
Sarre length
Height of S
Height of e
Distance base of Sarre to black bar line
Length of black bar line
Where present the length of line under black bar line for types II or III.

Easier to see if you grab image and enlarge it.

Some of the stamps have ´solid`measurements and can be easily ascribed a type and as genuine. All in second column i.e bottom row. This includes the niece higher value 30Pf stamp.

Here are the Sarre overprints enlarged from letter.

Top row on letter left column, bottom row letter, right column.
Image

The problem stamps come from top row on letter by the look of Sarre and measurements.
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussio

Post by johnrcrow »

An aside.

Seeking out the Michel 14aI 60Pf.


The CV for the 60Pf Mi.14s are:

14a I red lilac/purple lilac
NHM €750 HM €360 used €900


14b I dark grey lilac to grey purple
NHM €1.3 HM €1 used €1.6

14b III dark grey lilac to grey purple
NHM €1.2 HM €1 used €1.3

Chasing up the rarity means discriminating shades, a sometimes difficult area and due to the very large CV difference maybe worthwhile.

I have quite a few type I and III Mi.14 and one caught my eye in comparing the stamps as a candidate for the 14 aI.

Here is a select lot for comparison of shades.

Scan of seven selected Mi.14 Sarre overprinted Germania postage stamps (normal scan).
Image



Scan of seven selected Mi.14 Sarre overprinted Germania postage stamps (enhanced scan ).
Image


The top left stamp was the one that caught my eye and in daylight was much redder than the rest.

The shades of all my other Mi.14 were very similar and the other stamps selected represent the shade seen.

Note that I have included two type III stamps (stamps on right of both rows showing the line below the black bar- there is no type II cited) as these are given as cheaper CV shade and this is also the type I b shade, so they act as a reference shade.

The normal scan does not do justice to the observations in daylight (a common ´failing`of a normal scan) but on enhancement (I like doing this) using an increased brightness to 60%, saturation to 50% and contrast at 40% the difference is exaggerated and a distinct red lilac possibility is shown.

The other stamps maintain their similarity, the exception being second from left on the top row which although darker than the other type 14b I and 14b III stamps is nowhere a red (this may be the grey purple shade).

Of course you may not see this on your monitor so indicate if you have difficulty in my justification for assessing the top left stamp as distinct from the others and possibly the 14a I.

Here is an enlargement of the enhances scans of the possible 14a I compared to a type 14b III.

Image
User avatar
maptrekker
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
Posts: 2605
Joined: 05 Jul 2009 10:00
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussio

Post by maptrekker »

I note that Mi 14aI is a rotary press printing. Except for the printing in the margins, I think they are indistinguishable from flat plate examples.

Mi 39a was also a rotary press printing in those same colors but is also a pricey item.

Mi 39b only comes in the dark grey lilac to grey purple range of 14b.

Comparing the colors of your Mi 14 and Mi 39 examples might help in your color analysis.
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussio

Post by johnrcrow »

Good points Map.

I will have a look at the Germanys indicated.

Maybe I should use the SG definitions.

SG14 60Pf deep purple £0.50 mint £1.60 used.
SG 14a On rose purple £475 mint £1300 used.

Generally SG is not into evaluating shades, nor does it distinguish never hinged mint and hinged mint, only has mint.

Here are SG tables for the Sarre.

Scan of SG (Germany 12th Edition) tables for Sarre overprints on Germania postage stamps.
Image

Image

1a is type II, Ib is type III.



SG likes purple rather than any indication of lilac shades. Michel is a lilac oriented catalogue. Michel purples have to be very distinct.

Note the ON rose purple giving a clue as to the shade difference. Maybe I should be looking more at the background and its affect.

In the above I was using the similarity of shades for the type III (14b only) and there relationship to the bulk of type I that I have.

The top left stamp is exceptional to all I own having the red/rose hue.

I will dig out the 60Pf war printings as an exercise. Why not?

Looking at the proofed 14a I scans for sale on e Bay it is impossible to glean anything about their shade.

John
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Here by way of a boost is an interesting horizontal pair.

The Mi.4, 5Pf type II is least common and hence has a higher CV, so maybe could be a target for forgeries although for Mi.4a type II the CV €24 NHM , €15 HM, used €80 hardly justifies this. Better target is the Mi.4b type II the CV €140 NHM , €70 HM, used €180.

In the example here we have a Mi.4a II as justified by the measurement listed above in the thread.

If I were to see the right hand stamp alone I would assess this as a possible crude forgery, but not so for the left hand stamp. However, there is obviously an overprint problem here as seen in the aberrations of the base bars. The right hand stamp can almost be described as a double print and the left hand stamp also shows a fainter second black bar but the Sarre is ´clean`?

Note, I added the question mark.

What printing phenomenon could cause this?
5pf saar duo.png
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

As I have scanned (rescanned) some of my examples of flaws thought it might be useful to show them.

I am sure some have been shown before but repetition might avoid trawling throughout the thread.

This is a rich area for flaws on stamps as well as the overprints.

Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.59 with flaw III (Mi.59III).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.59 with flaw III (Mi.59III).








Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.63 with flaw II (Mi.63II).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.63 with flaw II (Mi.63II).









Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.77 with flaw II (Mi.77II).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.77 with flaw II (Mi.77II).








Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.78 with flaw III (Mi.78III).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.78 with flaw III (Mi.78III).
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.81 with flaw II (Mi.81 II).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.81 with flaw II (Mi.81 II).








Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.84 with flaw IV (Mi.84 IV).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.84 with flaw IV (Mi.84 IV).









Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.84 with flaw VI (Mi.84 VI).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.84 with flaw VI (Mi.84 VI).








Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.86 with flaw I (Mi.86 I).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.86 with flaw I (Mi.86 I).










Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.86 with flaw V (Mi.86 V).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.86 with flaw V (Mi.86 V).







Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.86 with flaw VI
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.86 with flaw VI
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.87 with flaw I (Mi.87 II).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.87 with flaw I (Mi.87 II).









Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.87 with flaw II (Mi.87 III).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.87 with flaw II (Mi.87 III).











Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.88 with flaw II (Mi.88 II).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.88 with flaw II (Mi.88 II).











Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.99 with flaw II (Mi.99II).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.99 with flaw II (Mi.99II).
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.100 with flaws I, II and III
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.100 with flaws I, II and III










Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.100 with flaws IV, V and VI. (Anyone send in a VI flaw, this one given as VI but I do not fully appreciate the flaw)?
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.100 with flaws IV, V and VI. (Anyone send in a VI flaw, this one given as VI but I do not fully appreciate the flaw)?











Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.100 with flaws VII, X and XI. (forgive the curved arrow).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.100 with flaws VII, X and XI. (forgive the curved arrow).









Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.101 with flaw III.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.101 with flaw III.
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.108 with flaws I and V (small break in ´0` of ´10`).
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.108 with flaws I and V (small break in ´0` of ´10`).









Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.110 with flaws I and Mi 114 with flaw I.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.110 with flaws I and Mi 114 with flaw I.






Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.110 with flaws I and II.
Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.110 with flaws I and II.







Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.112 with flaws II and III.
Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.112 with flaws II and III.







Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.112 with flaws I and II on same stamp.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.112 with flaws I and II on same stamp.
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.114 with flaw IV and Mi 117 with flaw I.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.114 with flaw IV and Mi 117 with flaw I.








Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.115 with flaw III and Mi 117 with flaw II.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.115 with flaw III and Mi 117 with flaw II.









Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.116 with flaws II and III.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.116 with flaws II and III.








Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.117 with flaw I and Mi 175 with flaw III.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.117 with flaw I and Mi 175 with flaw III.
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.119 with flaw I.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.119 with flaw I.









Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.126 with flaw III and Mi.158 with flaw III.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.126 with flaw III and Mi.158 with flaw III.









Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.158 with flaw III and Mi.179 with flaw VI.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.158 with flaw III and Mi.179 with flaw VI.








Saargebiet postage stamp Mi. D6 with flaw XI. and D6 with flaw V.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi. D6 with flaw XI. and D6 with flaw V.








Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.D7 with flaw III.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.D7 with flaw III.
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.D11 with flaw VII and XX.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.D11 with flaw VII and XX.








Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.D12 with flaw XXIV and III.
Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.D12 with flaw XXIV and III.






Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.D13, D14 and D15 with flaw III.
Saargebiet postage stamp Mi.D13, D14 and D15 with flaw III.






Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.D13 with flaw VI and D29 with flaw V.
Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.D13 with flaw VI and D29 with flaw V.






Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.D14 flaw X and D13 with flaw IV.
Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.D14 flaw X and D13 with flaw IV.
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.D25 with overprint flaw XIII, Mi.D28 with flaw III and Mi.D28 with overprint flaw XX.
Saargebiet postage stamps Mi.D25 with overprint flaw XIII, Mi.D28 with flaw III and Mi.D28 with overprint flaw XX.
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

John, I like all the Plate Faults being shown above. The post is very useful in looking through personal accumulations. Even with translating Michel PF verbiage, an image is 100 times better. I haven’t had time to contribute for a while but I will go through my SAAR stuff and add some additional Plate faults that have not been shown. I will try an avoid duplication but I doubt I will succeed. Have you done Berlin yet? I have a lot of Plate Faults
for this area to show.
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Hello Chaulk.

I was beginning to think that we German hoarders were slacking.

Looking forward to seeing your plate flaws etc., and do not worry about repeats, repetition is useful.

I also have scores of what can be regarded as transient flaws on these issues and no doubt we might get into them along the way. Also we might think about some flaw swapping?

Also we could do with a thread on the SAARLAND post 1935 and its faults? I add the question mark. A pretty area visit.
John
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Image

Mi 126 with Plane flying into a cloud PF I = 1st stamp of the pair
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Mi 126 with PF III, Mi 127 with PF III & PF VII - Plus a Dot Flaw(bottom right stamp in block)
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image
Image
Blow up of the blocks on previous page
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image
Example of PF VIII
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image
Image
Example of Mi 126 PF VIII - Broken Frame above "VAUGIRARD" Bottom Right
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image
Not sure on this one - Perhaps a Mi 127 PF II ??
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Example of Mi 127 PF V Short i in "HELIO" Bottom Left.
Wife just notified me I need to pick up things from store, so I will post more later.
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Lovely stuff Chaulk.

Keep them coming.
John
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image
Image
Blow up of Plate Fault Mi 195 PF IV
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:36, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image
Mi 195 PF III

Image
Mi 196 PF III "VAUGIRARD" Sanded Down

Image
Mi 196 PF VI Line from left wheel to left wing tip
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:36, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:36, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Image
Mi 143 FLAW ? Not a Plate Fault
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:36, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:37, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:37, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Image
Line through the inside of the Zero

Image
Hook on r of "Fr"
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:37, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Image

Image

Image

That's it for today. I have some more Plate Faults that I will locate and post in a few days.
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:38, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:38, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:38, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image

Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

The following pages are simply Flaws I noticed on some Saar stamps. Most are just probably printing glitches etc.
May be some Plate Faults among them - just haven't had the time to closely look. Take them for what they are worth.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks Chaulk.

I suppose we now ask, "is there a stamp in the issues without some sort of flaw?"

I will also show some of these transient bits and pieces, some more interesting than others and just maybe we will have the same aberration.

Note that this is post 3500 from me so a milestone shared!!

So adding an interest scan to celebrate.

Later SAARLAND issue.1950.

Airmail Mi.298. CV normal stamp NHM €310 HM €180 Used €1000.

So far so good APART FROM THE BAD DIAGONAL CREASE/FOLD. :evil:

Doubt this one can be ironed out.

Flaw on this is Mi.298 II a definite streak over ´ANNO`.

NHM €900 HM €800 Used €2000!

Mi.298 II.
Saarland postage stamp airmail (creased) flaw Mi.298 II,  streak over ´ANNO`.
Saarland postage stamp airmail (creased) flaw Mi.298 II, streak over ´ANNO`.




Enlarged flaw.

Saarland postage stamp airmail Mi.298 II,  streak over ´ANNO` enlarged.
Saarland postage stamp airmail Mi.298 II, streak over ´ANNO` enlarged.
Pity about that crease. However, a rare flaw on a scare stamp.

John
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Congratulations on the 3,500 posts. I have enjoyed all of your Germany related threads. It takes a lot of effort on your part to prepare some of these detailed threads – Well Done John!

I located the other flaw for Mi 298 PF I that I have.

Image

I have a few other items to list and 2 that I need an opinion on.
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Here is the 1st stamp I have questions about. the BAR at the bottom is trimmed at the left and right. Just wonder if either of these would qualify as an Overprint Fault?
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Here is the 2nd item. I think it's Mi 5a IK ? If it's not a forgery? Not centered very well but is MNH ** and appears to be signed by BURGER BPP (which also could be a forgery). Any opinions on this stamp?
Image
Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
chaulkdust
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 321
Joined: 06 Jan 2017 01:27
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by chaulkdust »

Just noticed another stamp I have a question about. It's a Mi 298 which has what looks like to me a Plate Crack Fault. It's similar to the PF II in that the cracks look similar just in different places. I put it with the PF I that I already showed. Perhaps someone has one similar? This is easy to miss if you are not looking VERY closely under magnification.
Image
Image
Last edited by CMJ on 18 Jun 2021 23:41, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Externally hosted image(s) corrected
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Nice flaw on the airmail.


First query. Right side seems a clear ´s cut`, although cannot quite make out full shape.

Left side a defined edge with blurring.


Like the J in the Handbook I quoted in thread.
FRENCH SARRE 1 ENL.png






Second query. Send a 600 scan with no re-sizing of the orange inverted and I will measure it up.

Note the break in ´a`so adds to authenticity maybe? Michel 5aI PF NI as well as inverted OP.


vvv.png



BURGER diagonal proofing a little suspect?

John
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

First query answer..... Not s cut but cut..... where the did the ´s` come from?

John
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4582
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Saar & Saargebiet stamps 1920-1935. A detailed discussion

Post by johnrcrow »

Assessing the Chaulk inverted OP.

Scanned in some Type I´s.

Very uniform siziing for Sarre length, height of ´S` and distance between lowest point of Sarre (measured from base of ´e`.

Enlarged treatment shows one typical proofed stamp for Type I and Chalk´s inverted.

Main problem is the short ´Sarre`being more typical of a Type III. However, no small bar under large bar, needed to nail the Type III.

I would say a forgery. Looks wrong to me and there are some differences in the ´r`s (foot of second ´e`for example).

Note the intensity of the bar and OP in Chaulk´s example. Not seen in mine nor others I have.

The 5 a I K CV in Michel of €1000 is mentioned only for USED example!

So this is even more a target and a forgery, in my opinion.

John

German postage stamps. Sarre overprints. 17 examples compared to inverted OP example.
German postage stamps. Sarre overprints. 17 examples compared to inverted OP example.




German postage stamps. Sarre overprints. 17 examples compared to inverted OP example with some measurements.
German postage stamps. Sarre overprints. 17 examples compared to inverted OP example with some measurements.





German postage stamps. Sarre overprints. One typical proofed example compared to inverted OP example with measurements.
German postage stamps. Sarre overprints. One typical proofed example compared to inverted OP example with measurements.
Post Reply

Return to “Discuss stamps - and *anything* at ALL happening with stamps”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests