A detailed guide to GB QV 1d Red 1854-1864 'Stars' perforated stamps

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by pertinax »

johnrcrow wrote: I assume it is a C10? S.G. 38/41.
Yep.

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by jukes »

Image

QF Plate 43, the extension of the lower serif on F extends far enough to make it look like an E which is not mentioned anywhere as a constant for this plate.

Could it be an ink run, or a high horizontal transfer roll line or just a freak for this stamp ?
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

Hello Roger,

It certainly looks like plate 43 to me too.

The serif 'extension' looks very much like a horizontal guide line which apparently is not on the imprimatur. As this is not possible, another explanation is needed.

Assuming that it is indeed an hgl (a better quality image would help here) and it is plate 43, then I think the poor quality of the imprimatur is the reason it cannot be seen.

The imprimatur image is of such poor quality that much of the detail of the Queen's face is missing. As this consists mainly of fine lines (which can be seen in your stamp) it could explain why the fine line of the hgl also cannot be seen.
Best wishes,
Bill
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by jukes »

Bill

No mention of it in tonna,s plating guide either for that plate with those letters, which normally points out the detail for each stamp.
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by jukes »

Image

Hopefully a better resolution
Cannot see any sign of extended F serif on the impramatur ?
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

jukes wrote:No mention of it in tonna,s plating guide either for that plate with those letters, which normally points out the detail for each stamp.
Maybe Tonna was looking at the same imprimatur photograph?

Does anyone have the later Statham's "Essential Guide" series, volume 15 they could look in?

Again assuming it is plate 43, then the only other possibility I can think of is that it is a remarkably linear plate scratch.
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by jukes »

Hi Bill

Stathams Volumes 15, 16 & 17 arrived today.
No mention of extended serif on the "F" of QF plate 43.
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

jukes wrote:Hi Bill
Stathams Volumes 15, 16 & 17 arrived today.
No mention of extended serif on the "F" of QF plate 43.
Well that seems conclusive.
Which only leaves a late horizontal plate scratch coinciding with the 'F' serif as the answer - or it's the only one I can think of.

As an aside, how does the Statham compare with your Tonna for accuracy, detail etc.?
Best wishes,
Bill
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by jukes »

Hi Bill
There seems a lot more info in Stathams volumes, will let you know more when I have had a chance to take a better look.
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

jukes wrote:Hi Bill
There seems a lot more info in Stathams volumes, will let you know more when I have had a chance to take a better look.
Thank you.
Best wishes,
Bill
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by honza »

Ahoj Bill!

I have just posted this beauty on the SON thread.
Image
It is small crown watermark perforation 16 with a centrally-placed 498 Manchester cancellation.

Of the two shades listed in my Part 1 I opted for yellow-brown SG18, but it seems more like your orange-brown on this thread. What do you think and is it possible to plate it please?

Cheers,

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

Hello Honza,

Colours on screen are always difficult, especially the shades. On my screen it looks more like a shade of yellow-brown than orange-brown - but the reverse may be true on a different screen. It is much easier when you have the actual stamps of similar shades with which to compare.

It should be noted that the SG QV specialised list only a fraction of the possible shades available, especially the C1s and C8s. I think yours falls between SG's cracks so to speak, as do many of mine, so I just list them as I see them.

As to the plate number, I'll have to admit defeat over this one - sorry.
Best wishes,
Bill
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by honza »

Ahoj Bill,

I appreciate your comments.

Thanks for trying anyway.

What is the range of plate numbers for this issue?

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

honza wrote:What is the range of plate numbers for this issue
C1 plates range:
155 - 204 plus reserve plates R1 - R6.
Best wishes,
Bill
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by pertinax »

emason wrote:
honza wrote:What is the range of plate numbers for this issue
C1 plates range:
155 - 204 plus reserve plates R1 - R6.

Small correction: excluding 156 and 158 through 161.

The stamp above lettered EE is plate 162.


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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by honza »

emason wrote:
honza wrote:What is the range of plate numbers for this issue
C1 plates range:
155 - 204 plus reserve plates R1 - R6.
Thank you.

So quite a lot then! I thought the different watermarks and perforations might limit the possibilities.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by honza »

pertinax wrote:
emason wrote:
honza wrote:What is the range of plate numbers for this issue
C1 plates range:
155 - 204 plus reserve plates R1 - R6.

Small correction: excluding 156 and 158 through 161.

The stamp above lettered EE is plate 162.


Scott
Thank you very much Scott!

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Cheers,

Honza
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by PeterG »

Excellent thread Bill and very helpful.
Just picked these two up:- a C1 postmark Crimean Campaign SG Z10 plate 182
Image
and a C6 also Crimean Campaign SG Z15 Plate 6
Image
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by honza »

Ahoj again!

Lovely pair with the Crimea postmark Peter. I'm very envious.

I have identified the following stamp as C9 SG29 with the commonest red-brown shade.(Die II Alphabet 3) Am I correct?
Image
Is it possible to plate it without too much trouble? Don't persist if it is a difficult one.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

honza wrote:I have identified the following stamp as C9 SG29 with the commonest red-brown shade.(Die II Alphabet 3) Am I correct?
Nearly. The red-brown shade and blued paper means it cannot be a C9 as they were never issued in this shade nor on blued paper.

It is a C8, possibly plate 38.
Best wishes,
Bill
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

Hello Peter,
PeterG wrote:and a C6 also Crimean Campaign SG Z15 Plate 6
That's a nice pair of C6s cancelled "contrary to regulations" with a single Crimea "OXO" - not often seen.
Best wishes,
Bill
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by honza »

emason wrote:
honza wrote:I have identified the following stamp as C9 SG29 with the commonest red-brown shade.(Die II Alphabet 3) Am I correct?
Nearly. The red-brown shade and blued paper means it cannot be a C9 as they were never issued in this shade nor on blued paper.

It is a C8, possibly plate 38.
Thank you again Bill. I checked on page one of this thread and meant to write C8 (honest!) :) SG 29 was right for the blued paper though, right?

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

honza wrote:SG 29 was right for the blued paper though, right?
The SG numbers refer mainly to the shades, and SG29 is the red-brown shade - so you are correct, but for the wrong reason. All issues from C1 to C8 were issued on blued (to a greater or lesser extent) paper.
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Bill
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by PeterG »

I think this block deserves a home here.

C10 plate 36 with HK and the complete bottom row all missing imps.
Image
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

Very nice too, Peter. :)

Blocks of missing imprimaturs are scarce, and when they include stamps that are not missing imprimaturs they are particulary useful for plating.
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by Battyrat »

I purchased a lot of C10 penny red stars a few weeks ago. This stamp was included in the lot. At first I thought it was a re-entry. But on later inspection it seems to show a lot of doubling of the design affecting the words POSTAGE and ONE PENNY and a badly deformed north west star.

Image

I have been wondering if this could of been caused by an over inked plate or the paper slipping on the plate. I thought it would be an interesting stamp to show here. Hopefully somebody could add a bit more info on what else could of caused the doubling of the impression.
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by pertinax »

Battyrat wrote:I purchased a lot of C10 penny red stars a few weeks ago. This stamp was included in the lot. At first I thought it was a re-entry. But on later inspection it seems to show a lot of doubling of the design affecting the words POSTAGE and ONE PENNY and a badly deformed north west star.

Image

I have been wondering if this could of been caused by an over inked plate or the paper slipping on the plate.
I'm sure this is correct.

And a very nice/strong example of its type, too.

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by jukes »

Image

Looks like Plate 1 (Die 2 - Alphabet 2) if so it is the missing impramatur stamp "HL" and might come in handy for plating purposes as it shows the baseline and position of the stamp above in relation to this stamp.
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by jukes »

Image

Could one of the experts please confirm if i have this one correct, i make it plate 21 the stamp is a C3 - Perf 14, Small crown, Die 2, Alphabet 2, Blued paper.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by pertinax »

jukes wrote:Image

Could one of the experts please confirm if i have this one correct, i make it plate 21 the stamp is a C3 - Perf 14, Small crown, Die 2, Alphabet 2, Blued paper.

Thanks in advance.
Appears to be 21 - the fact those letter positions mean it can't be much else helps.

However, as mentioned here many times, for a definitive answer on plating the image posted must be 600dpi.


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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by jukes »

Thank you Scott
I will try to get a better resolution and post
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by jukes »

Image

Hopefully a higher resolution [at] 1200 PPI
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by briggia »

emason wrote:Hello Peter,
PeterG wrote:and a C6 also Crimean Campaign SG Z15 Plate 6
That's a nice pair of C6s cancelled "contrary to regulations" with a single Crimea "OXO" - not often seen.
Bill, regarding your comment "contrary to regulations" with regards to "OxO" cancels - I was under the impression that this (along with "Stars in Crown" cancels) was the official method of cancelling British army correspondence that passed through Constantinople during the Crimean War 1854-1855.

Happy to learn as always. How so "contrary"?

(Apologies I do not have a "Stars in Crown" image of sufficient quality to post here)

Cheers

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by pertinax »

briggia wrote:
emason wrote:Hello Peter,
PeterG wrote:and a C6 also Crimean Campaign SG Z15 Plate 6
That's a nice pair of C6s cancelled "contrary to regulations" with a single Crimea "OXO" - not often seen.
Bill, regarding your comment "contrary to regulations" with regards to "OxO" cancels - I was under the impression that this (along with "Stars in Crown" cancels) was the official method of cancelling British army correspondence that passed through Constantinople during the Crimean War 1854-1855.

Happy to learn as always. How so "contrary"?

(Apologies I do not have a "Stars in Crown" image of sufficient quality to post here)

Cheers

briggia
The British PO regulation was that each stamp had to be cancelled individually and any multiple that doesn't have the same number of cancellation strikes as stamps in it is said to be 'against regulations' and commands a premium of price (sometimes dramatically so, as in the 1840 issues).

Having said that, it is true that it is normal to see stamps cancelled in the Crimea with one strike across two stamps.

Whether the regulation applied in Crimea or not, or if they knew about it, or if they just ignored it if they did, I don't know.


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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by briggia »

Thanks Scott very helpful :!:

Cheers

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by Kiwidude »

Interesting Cancel..

Would NPB stand for Newspaper Packet Boat ???? or something else.

What sort of price for it ?
Image

Image
Is there anything else interesting about it.

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by Lundy »

Hi Peter,

I think it is News Paper Branch pretty common and this is the later penny red not the stars issue. Due to the heavy cancel I cannot read the plate number from the sides...

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SG GB 1d Red Perf 16 Wmk 2 Could one of the experts please h

Post by byker1 »

SG? GB 1d Red Perf 16 - Wmk 2 - On Blued Paper - Ilford London Cancel

Could one of the experts please help with plating.

The Queens Head seems worn but i thought the background Stipple/Dots was amazingly clear Thank you for your Help.



Image


Image
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by emason »

Hello Byker1,

Your stamp is a C1 s.g.17.

With so much of the base missing it is difficult to be certain of its plate - possibly plate 202.
Best wishes,
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by byker1 »

Your stamp is a C1 s.g.17.

With so much of the base missing it is difficult to be certain of its plate - possibly plate 202.
Thankyou
Bill
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stam

Post by Flyboxfan »

Thank you to all that have posted on my favourite page. As a "newbie" in this subject I just keep coming back to learn more.
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by pmc »

Hi! Looking for some help with this P.16 stamp on blued paper, on a dated August 1854 cover. Reading this excellent guide leads me to believe that this combination makes this is a C1, but would love to have a plate, despite the obvious damage the poor thing suffered prior to being adhered to the envelope :D

I'm hoping the way in which the left D is attached to the left margin will help make ID a little easier :?:
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by emason »

Hello Peter,

I think your 1d red is from plate 180.

Would you call this stamp a 'D-K' or a 'E-K'?
Best wishes,
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by capetriangle »

emason wrote: 17 Aug 2020 04:29 Hello Peter,

I think your 1d red is from plate 180.

Would you call this stamp a 'D-K' or a 'E-K'?
An interesting dilemma, especially if the 'D-K' leads to the plating.

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by pmc »

emason wrote: 17 Aug 2020 04:29 Hello Peter,

I think your 1d red is from plate 180.

Would you call this stamp a 'D-K' or a 'E-K'?
Huge thank you Bill.

Great question that I was pondering myself. I decided EK since that was the majority of the stamp present :lol:
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by Renovatio »

Thanks emason for the awesome guide!
The using of "Idiot's Guide" was the perfect click-bait for me! :lol:
Now there is another type I would not be able to ignore when browsing catalogues... sigh. :D
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by Elf of the Wand »

Dear fellow stamp boarders. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. This thread has been a fascinating read.

It makes beginners like myself to stop lurking in the shadows (leeching from others posts) and enter the light (sign up to StampBoards).

To the surprise of none, I will post a (my first) Penny Red (/Stars?) which has been bugging me for a while. Whenever I find some hint as to which plate it might come from, I soon find compelling and contradicting signs in another direction. I guess confirmation bias is involved somewhere... Here goes:

Shade: Yes, it has a shade. It's brick-red-orange-plum-purple-stampish and everything in between.
Die: From the checklist earlier in this thread, I'm leaning towards Die II, based on:
  • The curved nostril
  • Ear: No curved line
Perforation: 14
Watermark: Large Crown. I haven't been able to determine type I or II. Tried my film scanner with positive, negative and b/w. Played around with levels and curves with no luck.
Alphabet: III or IV?
Paper: No traces of blue, I think.It looks like "cream" to me, but might as well be "white":
  • C8A – (Die 2: Alphabet 3: W/m Large Crown: Perf 14, White paper).
  • C9 – (Die 2: Alphabet 3: W/m Large Crown: Perf 14, Cream paper).
  • C10 – (Die 2: Alphabet 3: W/m Large Crown: Perf 14, White paper).
  • C12 – (Die 2: Alphabet 4: W/m Large Crown: Perf 14, White paper).
http://www.pennyreds.co.uk/Tips-for-platers 1. I see a similar break in the right frame. 2. I'm not sure whether nor not the ray is short. Plate 58? Rose-red C10?

Regards.
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pertinax
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by pertinax »

A couple of quick points of the stamp above.

1. You didn't really need to work out what Die it is, if it's LC wmk it has to be Die II.

2. It isn't a C8A, as that stamp has to be in the red-brown shade. Yours is definitely in the rose-red family of shades.

3. It definitely isn't Alphabet IV.


Scott
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emason
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by emason »

It could be plate 48.
It is difficult to be certain as the image is a photograph and not square (like a scanned image) and distorted as a result.
Best wishes,
Bill
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Elf of the Wand
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by Elf of the Wand »

Thanks for your help.

I made a scan:
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