Need assistance with sorting the GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

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BernardMX
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Need assistance with sorting the GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by BernardMX »

I have some problems in clasifiyng Germania Stamps I have Michel and Scott catalogs , but not sure about the colors and years , any tips will be greatly appreciated

Bernardo
Last edited by Brummie on 16 Jan 2017 18:15, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Expanded vague heading to add more detail
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by johnrcrow »

I think that you should try and be more specific as the Germania spread is wide. Perhaps you can scan in some examples of problem stamps?

You have a Michel catalogue so basic identification is not so difficult. You should be able to see watermarks easily.

Dated cancels help with 1905-1920 issues.

Shades are more difficult but we have a lot of expertise here in German stamps, so scan some in at minimum 600 and large scans and we can help.
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by Machaggis52 »

In Michel, you will find a page listing all the Germanias, by watermark and colour.

I assume it is the Deutschland-Katalog, rather than the Spezial, that you have. Look around page 124 and you will find it.
With kind regards, Jim
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by BernardMX »

johnrcrow wrote:
Dated cancels help with 1905-1920 issues.
Thank you so much , I was thinking of mint stamps
I have a collection with used and mint as per Scott catalog , would like to lern more about it , this series is Amazing , , I would try to scan what I have
In terms of PO cancelations as Showed with Berlin , There is also the chance to do it with Frankfurt Am Mine ????
Thank you in advance
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by BernardMX »

Machaggis52 wrote:In Michel, you will find a page listing all the Germanias, by watermark and colour.

I assume it is the Deutschland-Katalog, rather than the Spezial, that you have. Look around page 124 and you will find it.
Yes I have the Deuchland - Katalog , and I find it dificult to understand , I am more used to the Scott catalog :(
Thank you very much , will try to scan what I have
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by BernardMX »

Thank you so much for your tips , I will try to scan what I have
Very Interesting comments
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by gavin-h »

BernardMX wrote:I will try to scan what I have
Bernard,

This is the most important thing! I'm sure that when you put the scans on here, we will be able to help you to identify the stamps you have. :idea:

If you need help with posting images, there is a tutorial here:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53532

...and somewhere to practice here:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=284&start=2750

Good luck!
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by johnrcrow »

I am thinking about a Thread on this era, (another- Detailed look at my 1900-1920 etc.)

This would be useful to beginners as well as fuel discussion from experts.

Here are a few scans to show Michel defined stamps, a flavour.

If anyone is interested then send a post. I have scanned in lots of my collection so it is not so difficult to arrange.




Note Michel identifications are shown on home made pages with appropriate spaces.
Priced as in Michel to reflect scarcity value.



Scan 1. Michel Table 1905 issues.



Image



Scan 2. Page of some 1905 issues. Michel defined.



Image



Scan 3. 1920 issues page. Mint.



Image




Scan 4. Enlargement of REICHPOST examples.


Image
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by Remco Mouthaan »

Question.

What do you use to determine the color variations? I know that in germany the " farbprüfung" costs around €2,- per stamp.

But i guess you use a chart or simulair...?

Remco
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by johnrcrow »

A good question on colour determination.

In my other threads I show a method of comparative assessment of shades through fiddling (manipulating) with scans using computer programs to alter saturation, contrast etc. This relies on having a number of examples for comparison as well as proofed examples.

Colour charts (I use Michel for German of course) are not easy to use but I find that scanning the chart with stamps is useful.

I am sure that not all proofed stamps are correct and also that there are more rarer stamps around which match the Michel definitions. I may be wrong of course but most of us just rely on examples that are already expertised to some extent as being accurate.

My examples of the Germania issues are mainly expertised. I can match them with my unknown stamps by computer assessment but of course would have to have them evaluated by experts to get the seal of approval, a cost I do not want except for a major find with a very high CV.

So you need many examples for relative assessment and in my opinion via computer image
manipulation to help nail a shade.


Example from another thread.

Scan 1. Normal scan of group of stamps.

Image


Scan 2. Same scan manipulated with increased contract and saturation.

Image


Scan 3. Selected differences from manipulated scans. Non manipulated areas on right, manipulated on left. Numbers indicated frequency in 29 stamps looked at. These seem to fit scarcer shades values (a to d) as assessed by Michel CV.

Image



I am playing with Germania era now so here is a latest attempt.

Certain shades command a high CV.



Scan 4. REICHPOST 1M normal scan.

Image



Scan 5. REICHPOST 1M manipulated scan.


Image


Finally a proofed set of shades scanned normally and then manipulated to see differences enhanced.



Scan 6a. Normal.

Image


Scan 6b. Manipulated.



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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by Remco Mouthaan »

Aha...

Very nice and accurate. Thanks for showing the way you use through the manipulation of saturation. A shamed a bit also now, because when i readed it, i remembered i saw it briefly in some other post a long time back but simply forgot about it. Sorry.

I think what would be easiest for me is to gather certified copies of shaded as you mention and indeed use these as reference. Now i do not have a huge amount of the Germania stamp..maybe just over 1000 pcs.

But i really kind of like them and despite alot of other stamps, these might be interesting to sort further.

So thanks again and i will keep reading your post with more care now ;).
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by BernardMX »

Thank you for sharing , very interesting
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by BernardMX »

Dear Johnrcrow , thank you for sharing you knowledge , you are an expert , and kind to teach all of us
I saw in a diferent post of yours that you have a Berlin cancellations collection , I do not know if there are other cities that we couls collect cancellations from that period , by example Frankfurt , Hannover , Dresden , Munchen
Well thank you so much
Looking forward to what you could teach , and share with us
Best Regards
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Re: GERMANIA Stamps 1900 - 1920

Post by BernardMX »

gavin-h wrote:
BernardMX wrote:I will try to scan what I have
Bernard,

This is the most important thing! I'm sure that when you put the scans on here, we will be able to help you to identify the stamps you have. :idea:

If you need help with posting images, there is a tutorial here:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53532
Thank you so much

...and somewhere to practice here:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=284&start=2750

Good luck!
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Re: Need assistance with sorting the GERMANIA Stamps 1900 -

Post by BernardMX »

Thank you for all your information , very valuable :D
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Re: Need assistance with sorting the GERMANIA Stamps 1900 -

Post by Jerry Jensen »

Colors are hard to sort by using computer screen images, don't even attempt it. Every screen is a bit different in it's color characteristics. The Germany Philatelic Society has had a few articles on using Photoshop to do sorting and the Society does have a "Color" Study Group.

Unfortunately the latest German Experts price list now has a minimum of 5 Euros per stamp and 6 Euros for covers, regardless of what is being inspected.
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Re: Need assistance with sorting the GERMANIA Stamps 1900 -

Post by johnrcrow »

Jerry.

I agree about difficulties of exchanging scans on computers, screen differences etc etc.

However, if you are studying your own stamps with own scanner and computer, there are advantages in comparative assessments of stamp shades. By alterations in saturation, contrast and exposure one can begin to see clearer differences in shades that are missed when studying the straight scan alone.

Thus the by-eye differences can be enhanced.



It is an advantage to have some already proofed references on the same scan but be wary that some proofings can be wrong.



How do these come out on your monitors?

As an aid to separating the 1880 PFENNIG. I take point that showing differences that are clear at home are not always seen by other monitors.


Normal scan of proofed examples.


Image


Scan with increased saturation by 50%.


Image
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