Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

It looks like a 4 from ´distance` I admit.


What ´up close` shows, heaven really knows.

Anyway a talking point, what else is SB for?

John
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Looking at the original with a magnifier I think we have been confused by the "Wz". If this is a "standard" mark then perhaps in some cases a number etc. might have been placed next to this. In this case, of course, there is only one possible watermark apparently, so no indication would be required, (also is very difficult- even for an expert- to determine for a stamp on cover!).

As far as the rest of the mark is concerned I would say that it is "Ax". Although Michel gives 2 types: "ax" and "bx", (the former being the commoner type), I have noticed that older expertising marks often use a capital letter. Case solved?
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Case solved unless someone comes up with a definitive alternative.

Template Wz as you say. I though I could make out a small ´a` too below that cap ´A`!

Interesting as always OldD.

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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Here is a cover, currently on offer on Delcampe,with the seller and an expertising mark claiming it is Mi227b. I guess the "K" refers to "Comb" perfs.? But what about the handwritten "84"? I was not excited enough to purchase it, though! :)

DDR 227b COVER.jpg
SBZ Mi227b

Reverse (Nice receiving marks!):
DDR 227b COVER rev.jpg

Expertising mark:
DDR 227b COVER rev CROP.jpg
If it was DDR Mi341, (which it could be by the date), it would be much more expensive for some reason! (Suppose it had a shorter "life"!) (Cat.250DM for single franking as opposed to 25DM for Mi227).
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Cannot make out signature OldD.

Interesting again, the 84 is a reference to the 84pf stamp, though not easy to see why this is needed.

I shall have to dig out my few letters of the period and see whether they have the more mysterious proofing marks of old.

The shade should be brown red for 341b as against brownish carmine 341a.

Send me a 600 scan of stamp only and I will look at the Michel swatches against it, before and after enhancement of course. May work.

John

Here are Michel swatches for shades mentioned.

Michel colour swatch brownish carmine.
Michel colour swatch brownish carmine.



Michel colour swatch brown red.
Michel colour swatch brown red.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

As I said, the seller claims is SBZ227 although the expertising does not confirm this. If it was DDR341 you would think the seller would claim this- as much more valuable! Also odd that the expertiser did not identify which stamp it was. You might have thought by that date that the DDR version was more likely- but it could have been that Post Offices still had plenty of stocks of the SBZ one? As you say, the "84" doesn't tell you anything!

Since I don't have the cover can only put in a cropped and enlarged image from the seller's image. Shades of course are very difficult unless you use the same scanner.
For Mi227 Michel gives for "a": "bright brown-carmine to brown-carmine (shades) and for "b": "dark carmine brown"!

DDR 227b COVER crop2.jpg
SBZ 227b?
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Pardon me for not realising you had no hands on letter. You said this and I blindly went on.

I must read and assimilate better.

To me the stamp is definitely on the brown side shades as for dark carmine brown i.e. a 227!

However, we shall never know.

John
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Yes, conversely I have noticed several covers for sale which claim to bear DDR Mi341 but cannot be as the cancellation date is before the issue date! Luckily I don't collect DDR issues, apart from a few which fit in with my "Cold War" collection theme!
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Here is a Mi341 cover with single franking, currently on Delcampe for 418Euros!

ddr 341 cover.jpg
DDR Mi341
ddr 341 cover rev.jpg
ddr 341 cover rev crop.jpg
Old proofing. Maybe the "XI" is significant? (I don't have a "Specialized" for DDR.)
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Easier one this OldD.

Table for Mi.341 84Pf shown below from Michel.


Michel table showing DDR Mi.341 CVs. Used and in letter last 2 columns of CV respectively.
Michel table showing DDR Mi.341 CVs. Used and in letter last 2 columns of CV respectively.


341 v a XI (Wz 2 XI) is €500 used and €600 on letter (my specialised 2009).

So the 2 XI refers to watermark.

Note no Wm. XI for the 341b.



I wonder how they viewed the watermark? Maybe they are going on mid 1953 date and shade determined and a glimpse of the size of a posthorn?


Here are the watermarks in question.


DDR posthorn watermarks.
DDR posthorn watermarks.

The proofer is Schönherr (Heinz-Jörg) interetingly quoted as expert on Germany East (Mi 212–41, DDR).

Here is signature from filatelia web page.

SCHÖNHERR signature (East Germany expert).
SCHÖNHERR signature (East Germany expert).
Asking a lot for the letter....

John
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Thanks, johnrcrow. I think I'll swerve on this one!
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Pretty strange that they use XII etc. for Varieties and Plate Flaws and then XI etc.for watermarks! Presumably should be "x1; y1" etc. but seem to mix upper and lower cases and not distinguish between "1" and "I"! All helps to add to the confusion!
Last edited by OldDuffer1 on 31 Aug 2020 22:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

OldD.

I agree with the confusing aspects.

Note this is a BPP assigned stamp and I think that it is probably genuine.

I wonder how the designations have changed from efforts of the old signatures. Many of the rarer stamps are now endowed with ´certificates` by later proofers and this seems to be the best case scenario of one wants the ´genuine`article, hence higher prices.

In looking at many old signature proofed stamps, I have found that I do not agree with some estimations, mainly involving shades. No big deal of course, just my opinion based on what is in front of me and the help of a computer and of course stamps could have altered in the gap between the original examination(s) and now.

Best information comes from studies where there is good knowledge of changes in printing houses where the likelihood of a colour shift (shade change) is higher. Mixing inks is maybe more of an art than a science and subject to human manipulations. Change of printing papers also effects shades.

At least out gives those interested something to chew on.

John
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

I missed out one Russian area in SG. This is the II. General Issues.

From Feb. 1946 until June 1948 the Soviet Russian Zone used SG 899-956.

The authorities introduced currency reform in a hurry and as an emergency control measure used Mi.928-944 hand stamped with Postal District names and OPD numbers on sale from June 24th 1948. I will not dwell on these except maybe to show a few examples and the Gavin-h thread on ´The Russians in Germany Stamps 1945-49 (Soviet Zone)` has a good deal of information about these. There were about 1100 postal districts and 1900 different handstamps!
Many forgeries are ´available`.

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16899


The Soviet zone did not participate in the currency reform in the Western occupation zones in June 1948. When the new Deutsche Mark was introduced the old Reichsmarks circulating in East Germany became valueless. This situation forced the Soviets to quickly enact their own currency reform in the territories under their control. As was the case with the Western occupation zones, under the reforms, all currency, coins, stamps, etc. had to be replaced, as the current issues were now demonetized.

There was not enough time to design and print a new series of postage stamps. In order to indicate that the old postage stamps were now demonetized, the existing stocks of the Allied Occupation general issues in the Soviet territories were overprinted for emergency use.

The 1947 pictorial definitive stamps were re-issued on July 3, 1948 overprinted Sowjetische / Besatzungs / Zone, indicating that they were valid for use only within the the Soviet Occupation Zone

Two stamps were issued on August 29, 1948 to publicise the 1948 Leipzig Fall Fair. The two designs depict the "First New Years Fair of 1459" and the "Arrival of Cloth Makers from Abroad in 1469".

In September 1948, remaining stocks of the Berlin-Brandenburg issue and a few of the 1946 Allied Occupation numeral issues were also overprinted for use in the post-reform Soviet Occupation Zone.

On October 11, 1948, a brand new set of definitive postage stamps was issued for the Soviet zone. This new definitive set featured eight portrait designs of famous German socialists which are: Kathe Kollwitz (1867-1945), Gebhart Hauptmann (1862-1946), Karl Marx (1818-1883), August Bebel (1840-1913), Friedrich Engels (1820-1895), Georg Hegel (1770-1831), Professor Rudolf Virchow (1821-1902), and Ernst Thallman (1886-1944).

A stamp was issued by the Soviet zone on October 23, 1948 to publicize the annual "Stamp Day". The stamp depicts the arms of the Institute for Philately.

The following details the SG breakdown for stamps issued with the overprint ´Sowjetiche Besatzungs Zone` and the other issues (extending issues over time past the brief overview above) for the Soviet era.

I will then deal with the Michel assessment of the stamps which is far more complicated however, this is an interesting area to collect with shades, flaws, overprint errors and papers combining to make the hunt for scarcer stamps (high CVs) more interesting.


Here is the SG table for SG. R1 to R30.

SG. Table for R1 to R30 Germany-  1948 Soviet issues.
SG. Table for R1 to R30 Germany- 1948 Soviet issues.


Here are scans of the issues in table.

SG.R1 to SG.17.

Scans of SG.R1 to R17. 1948 Soviet issues.
Scans of SG.R1 to R17. 1948 Soviet issues.


SG.R18 to SG.30.
SG.18 to SG.R22 numerical issue, SG.R23 to R30 BERLIN and BRANDENBURG issue.


Scans of SG.R18 to R30. 1948 Soviet issues.
Scans of SG.R18 to R30. 1948 Soviet issues.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

SG R.31 and R.32

1948 Semi postal stamps featuring Leipzig Fall Fair.


SG. Table for SG.R31 and R32 and stamps, Germany Soviet semi postal Issue 1948.
SG. Table for SG.R31 and R32 and stamps, Germany Soviet semi postal Issue 1948.







SG. Table for SG. 33 to R48.

Mint values shown. (higher CV).

SG. Table for SG. R33 to R48.
SG. Table for SG. R33 to R48.








Scan of stamps SG.R33 to R48.

Portraits of politicians, artists and scientists.

Scan of SG.R33 to R48. Germany Soviet Issue 1948.
Scan of SG.R33 to R48. Germany Soviet Issue 1948.





SG.R49. Stamp celebrating stamp day 1948.

Mint £1.20 used £1.20

SG.49. Stamp day 1948.  Germany Soviet Issue.
SG.49. Stamp day 1948. Germany Soviet Issue.



In 1949 SG.R50 a stamp to commemorate 30th death anniversary of K. Liebknecht and R. Luxembourg.

Mint £1.20 used £1.20
SG.R50 30th death anniversary of K. Liebknecht and R. Luxembourg. Germany Soviet Issue 1949.
SG.R50 30th death anniversary of K. Liebknecht and R. Luxembourg. Germany Soviet Issue 1949.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

1949. 6th March Leipzig Spring fair. SG.R51 and R52.

SG.R51 Mint £5.25 used £6.50
SG.R52 Mint £6.00 used £7.25

6th March Leipzig Spring fair. SG.R51 and R52.
6th March Leipzig Spring fair. SG.R51 and R52.






SG.R53. Issued 13th May. Third German People´s Congress 1949.

SG.R.53 Mint £2.40 used £3.00.

SG.R53. Third German People´s Congress 1949.
SG.R53. Third German People´s Congress 1949.





SG.R54. Issued 29th May.Stamp SG.R53 with overprint.

SG.R.53 Mint £3.00 used £4.50
SG.R54. Issued 29th May 1949. Stamp SG.R53 with overprint
SG.R54. Issued 29th May 1949. Stamp SG.R53 with overprint
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

SG.R55 to SG.R59. Birth Bicentenary of Goethe, Portraits.

R55 Mint £3.50 used £4.25
R56 Mint £3.50 used £4.25
R57 Mint £3.00 used £3.50
R58 Mint £3.00 used £3.50
R59 Mint £4.75 used £7.25

SG.R55 to SG.R59. Birth Bicentenary of Goethe, Portraits, 1949.
SG.R55 to SG.R59. Birth Bicentenary of Goethe, Portraits, 1949.






SG. MSR59a. R9. 1949 Goethe Festival week. Sheet 106 x 104 mm.

Mint £275 used £700


1949 Goethe Festival week. Sheet 106 x 104 mm.
1949 Goethe Festival week. Sheet 106 x 104 mm.







Lastly. SG.R60 and R61. Leipzig Autumn Fair.

R60 Mint £7.25 used £12.00
R61 Mint £8.50 used £14.50


G.R60 and R61. Leipzig Autumn Fair. 1949.
G.R60 and R61. Leipzig Autumn Fair. 1949.


The Russian Zone then became the German democratic Republic (East Germany) 7th Oct. 1949.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Michel comparisons to SG.


I have taken the liberty of detailing the Michel cataloguing to show the contrast between the basic and specialised aids.

The Michel specialisation allows for shade differences as well as detailing some flaws on the stamps and the overprints.

Since some of the shades have large CV´s it is worth looking at them more carefully.

The issues are fairly common so a good number can be obtained but detailed examination may reveal some scarce stamps.

I will wade through mine (again) and see what I have (have missed).

Some discussions in this area have already been made in Gavin-h thread mentioned several times above however, a re-examination is always interesting, as I said what did I miss first time round?


SG.R1 to R3 with Michel catalogue breakdown.

Please forgive the odd wrong insertion (e.g. 183b.ddark-grey violet this should be 183b.dark grey-violet) .


SG.R1 to R3 with Michel catalogue breakdown for Russian Zone stamps 1948.
SG.R1 to R3 with Michel catalogue breakdown for Russian Zone stamps 1948.


Note
1. Shades dominate the scarcity and hence CV in Michel.
2. Each has three shades.
3. Mi.182c, Mi.183b and 183d and 184aa, 184b have high CVs.
4.The prices indicated are in € and probably are now higher for the scarcer stamps as my Michel version is English 2009.
5. ´P` and ´W` indicate flat plate and rotary press plate printings, respectively. One needs upper or lower plate margins to confirm these. Possession of plate margin copies also helps shade differentiation where single shades associated with P or W are cited for certain stamps.


I will add similar figures for rest of the series SG.R4 to R.17. Then come back with attempting shade discrimination of my stamps.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

SG.R4 to R6 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
SG.R4 to R6 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
SG.R4 to R6 with Michel catalogue breakdown.

Note.

185b and c high CVs
187b, ba and d high CVs





SG.R7 to R9 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
SG.R7 to R9 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
SG.R7 to R9 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
188c and 189c high CVs.






SG.R10 to R12 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
SG.R10 to R12 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
SG.R10 to R12 with Michel catalogue breakdown.

192c high CV.
This is a newly assumed shade.





SG.R13 to R15 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
SG.R13 to R15 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
SG.R13 to R15 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
195a and b higher CVs.






SG.R16 to R17 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
SG.R16 to R17 with Michel catalogue breakdown.
SG.R16 to R17 with Michel catalogue breakdown.

It is interesting to note the difference in shade evaluation and CV for the basic non-overprinted issues (Mi.943-968) as compared to the overprinted issues.

As an example the 24Pf Mi.951 has listed four shades a.b.c.d with very high CVs for 951 b, c and d. However, a single shade for the overprinted. No attempt at discrimination of the ´oranges`.

84Pf Mi 958 lists three shades a, b, c, where b and c have higher CVs.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

2Pf Mi. 182a, b, c.
Mi.182 features.
Mi.182 features.


a. Normal scan of some Mi.182 issues.

Not a large difference in the ´blacks`.
Normal scan of 2Pf Michel 182 examples
Normal scan of 2Pf Michel 182 examples







b. Enhanced scan of some Mi.182 issues 70% brightness, 20% contrast, 100% saturation.

Looks a little better in showing differences.


Enhanced  scan of 2Pf Michel 182 examples
Enhanced scan of 2Pf Michel 182 examples






c. Sorted stamps from enhanced scan. Lighter ´browns´to darker stamps. Some highlighted and shown in next scans.



Stamps sorted according to shades seen after enhancement.
Stamps sorted according to shades seen after enhancement.







d. Examples taken from sorted stamps showing basic shades differentiated after enhancement.


Examples characterising shades differentiated after enhancement.
Examples characterising shades differentiated after enhancement.
Top four represent browns- lighter and darker shades corresponding to 182a.

Note that most stamps are in this category as might be expected.

Bottom two are much blacker without brown tinges and suspect 182b or c.







e. Selected areas of the exampled stamps.
Enlarged areas of selected Mi.182 stamps.
Enlarged areas of selected Mi.182 stamps.






f. A final look at enlarged close ups of defined areas in selected stamps with re-enhancement 50 brightness, 30% contrast and 100%& saturation.


Very large magnification of same area on selected stamps showing after extra enhancement.
Very large magnification of same area on selected stamps showing after extra enhancement.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

I will deal with the Mi.183, 6Pf next and then come back to interpretations of results.

I emphasise that enhancement is an attempt to see if the stamps one has offer different properties of colour and distribution of colour allowing a method of distinguishing stamps. If patterns agree with those offered as different shades catalogues then all well and good. It is an aid to differentiation.

One thing that is interesting is the great difference in the sizes of and distribution patterns of ´colours` brought up with the exaggeration parameters of brightness, contrast and saturation. The results probably reflect the variation of pigments in the printed stamps as seen when one dives into high magnification of selected areas.

Care has to be taken to see what set up of the three parameters does separate perceived shades but ´fiddling`with the parameters usually gives a clue as to how to discriminate the various basic colours.

The impact of any this kind of study is to see whether there is a correlation between the shades seen after enhancement with likely shades as determined from catalogues. One needs a good number of stamps (the more the better) and sometimes this works. May help with those wishing to get stamps proofed?


Mi.183. Below is the comparison of SG.R2 and Michel 183 shades.

Mi183 comparison diagram with SG.R2
Mi183 comparison diagram with SG.R2

Here are what have, not too many again, so little chance of the scarcer stamps?


a. Normal scan first.

Normal scan of some Mi.183 6pf stamps Russian Zone 1948.
Normal scan of some Mi.183 6pf stamps Russian Zone 1948.


Not too easy to see differences.







b. Enhanced scan.
Enhanced scan of some Mi.183 6pf stamps Russian Zone 1948.
Enhanced scan of some Mi.183 6pf stamps Russian Zone 1948.

A bit better with some distinctly darker shades discernible.







c. Sorted according to my estimation of differences.

Enhanced scans sorted into similar colours  of some Mi.183 6pf stamps Russian Zone 1948.
Enhanced scans sorted into similar colours of some Mi.183 6pf stamps Russian Zone 1948.

Note

Top three rows are similar though top row is darker.
Fourth row darker
Fifth row redder. I am ignoring the yellowed last stamp.






d. Now to look at higher magnification of select areas.

I took the 6 and enlarged from the scans above. Enhanced again by 50%, 50%, 50% (brightness, contrast an saturation)

Enlarged areas (6) in enhanced scans sorted into similar colours of some Mi.183 6pf stamps Russian Zone 1948. Note Mi 183c should read Mi.183b (redder stamps).
Enlarged areas (6) in enhanced scans sorted into similar colours of some Mi.183 6pf stamps Russian Zone 1948. Note Mi 183c should read Mi.183b (redder stamps).


More interesting.

We have mainly pinks with some blue, blue with some pink, dark blue and redder various distributions of colours.


The question is are we seeing dark violet to bright bluish violet Mio183a as the pink and blue variants after enhancement.

Are we seeing Mi.183b the dark red violet (looks likely) in the redder enhancements.

Not easy to assess that we are seeing the dark grey violet (Mi.183d) as the dark blue post enhancements.

Bearing in mind that the scarcity of the stamps as judged from given CVs, it goes against finding the 183b and d.

However, a result.

Given the close similarity of the shades using a normal scan and hence the perceived shades judged in the past ´by eye` then it may be that there is an under estimate of the rarer shades?


Conclusion.

Selected stamps with enlarged area in the ´6` showing three distinct ´shades`in my Mi.183 lot.

Three shades selected after enhancement studies.
Three shades selected after enhancement studies.


Another feature exposed is the transition of the size and distributions of colours in enhancement studies.
ThIs probably reflects the small differences in particulate matter making up the inks used.

The question raised is just when does a change in particle content and distribution affect the perceived shade of a stamp?

A continuum of say mostly pink with blue to equal pink and blue to mainly blue and pink in the above examples alters the hue and shows why the 183a can be dark violet and dark blush violet.

Where a new ´mix`is used introduced with different characteristics (deeper violet, red, deeper blue) , then we may witness the Mi.183b and d. The enhancement studies show these continuums and marking the boundaries is not easy hence the difficulties of us all to establish a definitive colour.


Work in progress.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Yes, it is interesting that Michel says, of this overprinted series: "partial edition, partially new edition of Allied Occupation Stamps...".

Presumably this means that some stocks already available were overprinted but some were newly printed (and then overprinted)?

If so, you have possible variations from the original printings and the new. A happy hunting ground indeed!

They also seem to suggest 4 different "overprinters". Well!
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks OldD.

Indeed the printings are ´variable` so we would expect differences.

The Mi. 943 to Mi. 958 progenitors are more shade complicated than the overprinted lot for some denominations.

I am particularly struck by the 24Pf Mi.951 that offers four shades (have struggled with these before) and three have a high CV and are presumably scarce, as against the single shade quoted for the overprinted! I see clear differences in the shades for the 24Pf Mi.190 that is rather dismissed as (DARK) BROWN ORANGE TO ORANGE BROWN (MANY SHADES) for the overprinted issues! Obviously a lack of interest there.

I will look at the actual overprints later, but they also offer a good chase. I missed the information about there being four different overprints, so thanks for that..

John
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

I am skipping the 8Pf, 10pf and 12Pf overprinted as have not so many to look at.

Moving on the 15Pf nightmare browns.
Mi.187 comparison of Mi. and SG. cataloguing.
Mi.187 comparison of Mi. and SG. cataloguing.

I say nightmare, since the shades seem to be very similar as witnessed in descriptions in the diagram above.

As before, a look at the basic scan and enhanced efforts to separate my lot.

Again, not too many and this limits possibilities for being a scarcer shade.



a. Normal scan.

Mi.187 15Pf scans of examples, Russian Zone stamps 1948
Mi.187 15Pf scans of examples, Russian Zone stamps 1948




b. Enhanced scan after fiddling with settings.

Enhanced scans of Mi.187 Russian Zone stamps 1948
Enhanced scans of Mi.187 Russian Zone stamps 1948







c. Look at 15 region unsorted as in scans above with extra enhancement.
Enhanced ´15`region on Mi.187 Russian Zone stamps 1948
Enhanced ´15`region on Mi.187 Russian Zone stamps 1948






d. ´15`region sorted according to my determination of differences. along with stamps.
Enhanced ´15`region on Mi.187 Russian Zone stamps 1948 sorted as to  similar patterns.
Enhanced ´15`region on Mi.187 Russian Zone stamps 1948 sorted as to similar patterns.








e. Overview and conclusions.


Selected stamps showing gradual changes in enhanced patterns .
Selected stamps showing gradual changes in enhanced patterns .

1. Not an easy task separating the 15Pf.
2. Note the transition from red to dark brown is associated with build up and distribution of the dark ´matter`after enhancement.
3. One or two stamps can be differentiated but there is a build up of darker material altering the shades. Transition for colour then is debatable except at extremes. e.g. Stamp 1. on left is different to stamp 8. in last scan above. The in-between ´patterns` represent shade differences as a continuum.
4. No conclusions about what I have.

Work in progress.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Having put the principles of the enhancement play-around I will not go into such detail in future. I can summarise any results by showing conclusions and representative examples.

Thuringia


I have recently attacked the Thuringia issues more and thought it useful to show just how complicated things get with Michel over SG, a frequent theme contrasting specialised and basic cataloguing. I will use the range Mi.92 to Mi.99 as examples.




a. Basic Michel Table for Thuringia Mi.92 to 99.
Basic table for Thuringia issue postage stamps Mi.92 to Mi.99 Russian Zone 1945.
Basic table for Thuringia issue postage stamps Mi.92 to Mi.99 Russian Zone 1945.


CVs not too far from SG. Some shade ranges shown and a clear division of gums into normal complete and economy.





c. Reminder of Mi.92 to Mi.99 issues.

Mi.92 to Mi.99 issues. Russian Zone postage stamps 1945
Mi.92 to Mi.99 issues. Russian Zone postage stamps 1945






c. Full and economy gum comparison.

Comparison of normal and economy gums on Thuringia postage stamps, Russian Zone 1945
Comparison of normal and economy gums on Thuringia postage stamps, Russian Zone 1945



The next three scans show Michel specialised table for Mi.92 to Mi.99-

Have highlighted the high CV listed stamps.

Michel table for Mi.92 to Mi.95 Russian Zone Postage stamps 1945.
Michel table for Mi.92 to Mi.95 Russian Zone Postage stamps 1945.

Michel table for Mi.95 (rest) to Mi.97 Russian Zone Postage stamps 1945,
Michel table for Mi.95 (rest) to Mi.97 Russian Zone Postage stamps 1945,

Michel table for Mi.98 to Mi.99 Russian Zone Postage stamps 1945.
Michel table for Mi.98 to Mi.99 Russian Zone Postage stamps 1945.

Notes.
1. There are a large number of high CV varieties.
2. We have to look at paper, shades and gum to establish varieties.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Major differentiating factors for Mi.92 to Mi.99 GUMS and PAPERS.


Here is the list of paper and gum types given in Michel.

List of gum and paper types for Mi.92-Mi.99 issues Russian Zone postage stamps 1945.
List of gum and paper types for Mi.92-Mi.99 issues Russian Zone postage stamps 1945.


Notes based on my experience.

1. There is no difficulty in seeing economy or complete gumming on mint stamps. Used stamps sometimes pose problems with economy gumming differentiation so care to needed to examine examples carefully.

2. p1. and p2. Once one realises what paper striping looks like by holding stamp, front facing you (stamp back towards light source), then angling stamp towards oneself, then this greatly helps separation of paper types. Sometimes reversing stamp (back to face you and front towards light source) is helpful in confirming striping.

3. q. Thick and rough, with the paper striping and the gum with embossed stripes, makes this relatively easy to determine.

4. r, s, t. and u. are easier to determine on mint stamps and not easy on used. Paper shades help here e.g. (u being more grey).

5. v. Granite paper, with woody speck,s makes this relatively easy to see.

6. w. Can be confused with net structures of s, t and u.

7. x. whiteness, thickness and lack woody bits makes this relatively easy to spot.

8. y. Economy gumming fine net structure help and can one confused with yy.

9. yy. Image showing though is useful tip.

10. z1 and z2 are easy in that striping is easy to see and economy gum present.


The many combinations of paper, gum and shades therefore, afford an interesting challenge ( well to me at least).
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

In trying to figure out how to approach differentiating a good number of stamps I came out with the following diagrams.


Diagram 1, Overall scheme to separate Mi.92-Mi.99 variants.



Overall scheme for identifying variants of  Mi.92-99.,  Russian Zone postage stamps 1945.
Overall scheme for identifying variants of Mi.92-99., Russian Zone postage stamps 1945.

This emphasises that sorting the Economy gums from normal as well as identifying the striped paper varieties should be first step.

Basically the identification of ascending and descending striping and associating them with the denominations is relatively easy.

After this we are left with the NON-striped papers and these are trickier.





Diagram 2. This considers the non-stripied papers only and is meant to help identify varieties.

Scheme to help  identify non striped paper variants of  Mi.92-99.,  Russian Zone postage stamp 1945
Scheme to help identify non striped paper variants of Mi.92-99., Russian Zone postage stamp 1945
Paper thickness range showed pin the right. (I wonder how accurate a measure this is to three decimal places?).



I will attempt to show examples of r to x varieties, but the features are not so easy to capture, we shall see.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

The struggle with papers and gums continues.

One relatively easy to find paper should be ´v`.

Why? well it should be a granite paper with woody inclusions as shown below in a bit of the Michel table.

Highlighting paper ´v`in Michel table for Thuringia  Russian Zone 1945 postage stamps.
Highlighting paper ´v`in Michel table for Thuringia Russian Zone 1945 postage stamps.

Definitions of granite paper gleaned in a rapid internet search.

´A paper containing small unbleached fibres easily visible on the back of a stamp`.

´Granite paper has colored (typically red and/or blue) silk fibers added to the furnish. Another name for granite paper was silurian paper as it only contained blue fibers and the paper was bluish-gray.

´Granite paper is a wove paper in which coloured threads, usually made of silk, and usually black in colour appear on the surface of the paper embedded within it`.

´Granite paper A paper with coloured cotton, linen, jute or wool fibres embodied within it when the paper is made. This paper is used as a deterrent against forgery`.



So looking for the threads and woody inclusions. Sounds easy.

Here is the only one I have found fulfilling the criteria, and a good find. I have 200 + Michel 97s and this the only one showing the characteristics. In fact it is the only one I have out of all including the Mi.92, Mi. 93, Mi. 95 where the paper ´v`is catalogued in Michel.

Mi.97 AX av bright carmine red (paper v) has CV of NHM €400m HM €180 and used €1000.

Mi.97AX bav brownish red is NHM 2800 and HM €1300 ( no price for used) however, only the type II Mi.97 is on paper v.


Type I and II Mi.97 are distinguished by looking for the collar line. Type II command a 10% premium for CV.

Illustration of Type I and II Mi.97 Thuringia Russian Zone 1945 postage stamps
Illustration of Type I and II Mi.97 Thuringia Russian Zone 1945 postage stamps







Mi.97 with paper ´v`

Mi.97 with paper ´v`front of postage stamp, Thuringia Russian Zone 1945.
Mi.97 with paper ´v`front of postage stamp, Thuringia Russian Zone 1945.








Mi.97 with paper ´v` back.
Mi.97 with paper ´v`back of postage stamp, Thuringia ussian Zone 1945.
Mi.97 with paper ´v`back of postage stamp, Thuringia ussian Zone 1945.









Mi.97 with paper ´v`back enhanced.
Mi.97 with paper ´v`back of postage stamp, Thuringia Russian Zone 1945 enhanced scan.
Mi.97 with paper ´v`back of postage stamp, Thuringia Russian Zone 1945 enhanced scan.

So I believe my stamp to be Mi.97AX av and if cancel is genuine with a CV of €1000.

However.

More later on woody inclusions.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

johnrcrow wrote: 08 Sep 2020 06:49
However.

More later on woody inclusions.
And we very much look forward to this!

Joking aside, you are something of a philatelic hero, johnrcrow!

By coincidence have just received three examples of the more major plate flaws of Mi95. I thought they would make a nice display with the cover shown previously.

Mi95 Plate Flaws.jpg
SBZ Mi95VII,95XI,95XIII

VII: "letter on a white thread"
XI: "S on letter's seal"
XIII: "upper borderline stands 2/3 higher"
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

Indeed OldD., these are good examples of the flaws.

Hero?

Well if you mean fiddling with stamps, they keeps me off the streets as well as the COVID....

Just blasting away in Germany 1872-74 thread.

All those shields. I wonder how long I can resist any colour enhancements?


Just happen to have to hand these Mi.95 as company for yours. I probably showed these before.





Mi.95II.

Mi.95 II flaw Germany Thuringen postage stamp.
Mi.95 II flaw Germany Thuringen postage stamp.






Mi.95III.
Mi.95 III flaw Germany Thuringen postage stamp.
Mi.95 III flaw Germany Thuringen postage stamp.







Mi.95 X. these sat next to each other on card! Broken top to horn mouthpiece.



Mi.95 x flaws on Germany Thuringen postage stamp.
Mi.95 x flaws on Germany Thuringen postage stamp.
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

For 95X it looks as if some are more broken than others!
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by johnrcrow »

If you mean the flaw, I have seen variation in the depth of the missing mouthpiece as well as exact position of the break in the white band forming the end of the mouthpiece. The right hand stamp is the more classic flaw.

If you mean the state of the stamps, the black sausage shaped hole on left stamp looks fairly cleanly punched out.



No matter how many times one looks for flaws, some are missed.

Below are some that I missed from a preliminary search, as well as a question marked flaw.

The XIV is not so certain.

The prices are from Philofax catalogue reflecting a more realistic market estimate.

6pf flaw lot sb.png

Sunday, very sunny here and the garden, as always, beckons attention to its many flaws!



John
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Re: Germany. My Russian Zone SG catalogue defined pages.

Post by OldDuffer1 »

95XIV appears to be "only one lower frame line":

95XIV.jpg
SBZMi95XIV

This appears to be quite a clear example. Others show the second line faintly.
(Not from my collection)
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